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U.S. Gov. Fighting to deny Asylum to German Homeschool

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Still having problems with CM's site. I heard about this on the news a day ago. I found this very interesting. A German family came over to the U.S. so they can homeschool their children. In Germany the Gov. probids homeschooling in most cases. In Germany their reasons appears to be that the Gov. wants to prohibit people who think differently from the Gov. on religious or philosophical grounds (from growing & developing into a force in society). Our Gov. only will let someone stay here if they have fear of danger in their own Country. Here's a few articles on this case. What are your thoughts? http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/u.s.-government-fighting-to-deny-asylum-to-german-homeschool-family http://www.hslda.org/does/news/2013/201302110.asp
by on Mar. 25, 2013 at 1:20 PM
Replies (31-40):
autodidact
by Platinum Member on Mar. 25, 2013 at 3:56 PM


http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/11pdf/10-1542.pdf

That is a link to a different asylum case and holders name appears on it. I believe that is standard operating procedure for his position. 

Quoting Naturewoman4:

Thank-You for your post, I was hoping to get others that came here from Germany or even any other Countries. So, then I was not understanding I guess, why this family specifically is being fought by our Gov./Holder to send them back? I wonder if this family has started the process to become a legal citizen here.
Quoting DragonMother10:

My husband is originally from Germany and he was one of those people that sometimes went against the government or argued with them. He came to this country LEGALLY, even though it took him 7 years. In some ways Germany is better than the U.S., and vice versa. It's not that horrible to live there to live in fear, it's no longer Nazi Germany. My husband didn't live in fear, just didn't agree with the.government all the time. Plus his family lives here and wanted to be closer to them.






DragonMother10
by on Mar. 25, 2013 at 3:58 PM
Because illegals will lie to the system. I live in a bordertown and seen/heard many Mexicans lying in order to stay here. A lot of them don't get caught or have yet to be caught. The government should really do something about it though.


Quoting Naturewoman4:

Thank-You DragonMother, that would be interesting to hear what your husband has to say or any knowledge he may have in this case. I do understand about the point that this family has nothing to fear for their safety in Germany. But, that also means they aren't able to homeschool their children. Because, if they did they would be fined, put in jail, or even lose their children. I'm sure they have a Lawyer that deals with these issues, so they must feel they have a legitmate case to win. If it costs so much to come here & be a permanent residence & a legal citizen, how is it so many illegals from all over the WORLD are here still? I hear of some that are illegal yet they have been able to work in higher level jobs. Some as journalist. They probably make pretty good money now, so I was wondering why they never became a legal citizen of this Country. Therefore, I was wondering why this family just don't do the same. They should of known ahead of time before coming, where the U.S. stands on this. I just feel sorry for them, because in our Country we have those freedoms to homeschool our kids. Pulling them out of public schools, because of the violence, bullying, or just not liking the way our public schools are teaching our children. This issue is VERY important for parents wanting to raise their kids for which they believe is the best way possible. Whether it is even for religious reasons, parents should be able to do this.




Quoting DragonMother10:

I don't know. I will ask my husband exactly the deal with homeschooling. It just doesn't seem a valid reason to leave Germany and make it seem like they are living in fear. It is possible since it costs a lot of money to come here as a permanent residence, that they are trying to find an easier way to come to the U.S. They have to become permanent residents before becoming legal citizens. They have to prove to the U.S. government that they are worthy of becoming citizens. It will take a few more years or so.





Quoting Naturewoman4:

Thank-You for your post, I was hoping to get others that came here from Germany or even any other Countries. So, then I was not understanding I guess, why this family specifically is being fought by our Gov./Holder to send them back? I wonder if this family has started the process to become a legal citizen here.








Quoting DragonMother10:

My husband is originally from Germany and he was one of those people that sometimes went against the government or argued with them. He came to this country LEGALLY, even though it took him 7 years. In some ways Germany is better than the U.S., and vice versa. It's not that horrible to live there to live in fear, it's no longer Nazi Germany. My husband didn't live in fear, just didn't agree with the.government all the time. Plus his family lives here and wanted to be closer to them.








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Naturewoman4
by Platinum Member on Mar. 25, 2013 at 4:06 PM
Ok, so if this is true, then it tells me when Germany signed that International Tready for Religious rights, it doesn't include homeschooling one's kids because of their religious beliefs. Idk, I just feel that the Gov. of any Country, should allow the parents to do what they feel is best for their children as far as their education. Making me think more about this is why parents can't have these rights? Doing what they feel is best for the education of their children. Should ANY Gov. tell a parent how their children is to be educated? But of course, there is certain subjects that are to be taken, tests to be giving & homework. Then turning in all of these papers proving they are teaching their kids. I don't know exactly how homeschooling works. Since, the focus really is about our Gov. not granting asylum to this family, makes me just wonder again, is the ONLY reasons to grant asylum in U.S., to people is due to the danger that Country opposes to that person.
Quoting autodidact:

No actually Bill of Rights refers to the first 10 amendments to our Constitution. I don't need a lesson on the Bill of Rights thank you.

Religious freedom is not the basis for homeschooling.  Homeschooling isn't based in religion, and many nonreligious people homeschool.

Article 4 of German basic law, or their constitution, does in  fact grant freedom of religion. Freedom of religion is not the issue here and this  German family was not being persecuted, religiously or otherwise.

Quoting Donna6503:

Again, when we in the states say, "Bill of Rights," it is basically a verbal shorthand for a whole sets of rights that we link together.

Those rights are generally taken as granted here in the states; yet, most people think that countries that are generally considered free societies accept those rights as given ... But it isn't the case.

Religious homeschooling, is accepted here; because of the notion of "free exercise of religion" and "free association" and to a certain extent the ten amendment too.

But, Germany doesn't grant those, "what we consider here a very fundamental right." While, on the surface, it doesn't seem appropriate for this claim to go through ... I do believe this family has a legal and constitutional to make their claim for asylum .. All because we view such rights to be very innate to our culture.


Quoting autodidact:


I didn't ask Why it was in quotes, I was questioning your assertion that most people think the Bill of Rights is universally applicable.

I understand that rights vary from country to country, what I don't understand is what any of this has to do with homeschooling or considering homeschoolers a persecuted class qualifying for asylum.


Quoting Donna6503:

The reason why it is in quotation marks is because, the notion that "free speech," "free associations," "free press," "etc., isn't as fundamental as a right in Europe as it is here in the states.



Hard to explain, but the there is a difference in regards to a right than what is compared to here in the US





Quoting autodidact:


Um . . .  what? What does the Bill of Rights have to do with it? And actually I think most people are aware that the Bill of Rights is United States document not one which is applicable to the entire world.



Quoting Donna6503:

Not very many people realize that Europe doesn't have a "Bill of Rights" like we do, here in the "Land of Round Doorknobs."


















Naturewoman4
by Platinum Member on Mar. 25, 2013 at 4:09 PM
Ok, thank-you for that link. I had another thoughts, what if in the case of Germany's law, if someone wants to remove their children due to bullying or violence in that school, would that be allowed?
Quoting autodidact:


http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/11pdf/10-1542.pdf

That is a link to a different asylum case and holders name appears on it. I believe that is standard operating procedure for his position. 

Quoting Naturewoman4:

Thank-You for your post, I was hoping to get others that came here from Germany or even any other Countries. So, then I was not understanding I guess, why this family specifically is being fought by our Gov./Holder to send them back? I wonder if this family has started the process to become a legal citizen here.
Quoting DragonMother10:

My husband is originally from Germany and he was one of those people that sometimes went against the government or argued with them. He came to this country LEGALLY, even though it took him 7 years. In some ways Germany is better than the U.S., and vice versa. It's not that horrible to live there to live in fear, it's no longer Nazi Germany. My husband didn't live in fear, just didn't agree with the.government all the time. Plus his family lives here and wanted to be closer to them.




Donna6503
by Platinum Member on Mar. 25, 2013 at 4:11 PM
While, I do tend to agree with you ... I feel that this family, does indeed have enough of a legal disconcertion for a court to settle this legal matter.

I know that you understand what the Bill of Rights are in the states.

I originally stated that, "... not many people realize that Europe doesn't have a 'bill of rights." I'll stand on that assertion, a lot of people here don't even know that the Bill of Rights are the first ten amendments that you've already pointed out.

Honestly, I'm not understanding your point. If I didn't make my point clearly, I'll apologize right now.


Quoting autodidact:

No actually Bill of Rights refers to the first 10 amendments to our Constitution. I don't need a lesson on the Bill of Rights thank you.

Religious freedom is not the basis for homeschooling.  Homeschooling isn't based in religion, and many nonreligious people homeschool.

Article 4 of German basic law, or their constitution, does in  fact grant freedom of religion. Freedom of religion is not the issue here and this  German family was not being persecuted, religiously or otherwise.


Quoting Donna6503:

Again, when we in the states say, "Bill of Rights," it is basically a verbal shorthand for a whole sets of rights that we link together.



Those rights are generally taken as granted here in the states; yet, most people think that countries that are generally considered free societies accept those rights as given ... But it isn't the case.



Religious homeschooling, is accepted here; because of the notion of "free exercise of religion" and "free association" and to a certain extent the ten amendment too.



But, Germany doesn't grant those, "what we consider here a very fundamental right." While, on the surface, it doesn't seem appropriate for this claim to go through ... I do believe this family has a legal and constitutional to make their claim for asylum .. All because we view such rights to be very innate to our culture.





Quoting autodidact:


I didn't ask Why it was in quotes, I was questioning your assertion that most people think the Bill of Rights is universally applicable.

I understand that rights vary from country to country, what I don't understand is what any of this has to do with homeschooling or considering homeschoolers a persecuted class qualifying for asylum.



Quoting Donna6503:

The reason why it is in quotation marks is because, the notion that "free speech," "free associations," "free press," "etc., isn't as fundamental as a right in Europe as it is here in the states.





Hard to explain, but the there is a difference in regards to a right than what is compared to here in the US








Quoting autodidact:


Um . . .  what? What does the Bill of Rights have to do with it? And actually I think most people are aware that the Bill of Rights is United States document not one which is applicable to the entire world.




Quoting Donna6503:

Not very many people realize that Europe doesn't have a "Bill of Rights" like we do, here in the "Land of Round Doorknobs."

























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autodidact
by Platinum Member on Mar. 25, 2013 at 4:24 PM

Is what is true?

It's not a violation of someone's religious rights to tell them they can't homeschool, particularly when not just their religious group is being prevented from homeschooling.

Yes it's very very difficult to gain asylum and even people who abandoned in danger of physical harm has been turned away.

I do homeschool and the regulations and oversight very from state to state.


Quoting Naturewoman4:

Ok, so if this is true, then it tells me when Germany signed that International Tready for Religious rights, it doesn't include homeschooling one's kids because of their religious beliefs. Idk, I just feel that the Gov. of any Country, should allow the parents to do what they feel is best for their children as far as their education. Making me think more about this is why parents can't have these rights? Doing what they feel is best for the education of their children. Should ANY Gov. tell a parent how their children is to be educated? But of course, there is certain subjects that are to be taken, tests to be giving & homework. Then turning in all of these papers proving they are teaching their kids. I don't know exactly how homeschooling works. Since, the focus really is about our Gov. not granting asylum to this family, makes me just wonder again, is the ONLY reasons to grant asylum in U.S., to people is due to the danger that Country opposes to that person.
Quoting autodidact:

No actually Bill of Rights refers to the first 10 amendments to our Constitution. I don't need a lesson on the Bill of Rights thank you.

Religious freedom is not the basis for homeschooling.  Homeschooling isn't based in religion, and many nonreligious people homeschool.

Article 4 of German basic law, or their constitution, does in  fact grant freedom of religion. Freedom of religion is not the issue here and this  German family was not being persecuted, religiously or otherwise.

Quoting Donna6503:

Again, when we in the states say, "Bill of Rights," it is basically a verbal shorthand for a whole sets of rights that we link together.

Those rights are generally taken as granted here in the states; yet, most people think that countries that are generally considered free societies accept those rights as given ... But it isn't the case.

Religious homeschooling, is accepted here; because of the notion of "free exercise of religion" and "free association" and to a certain extent the ten amendment too.

But, Germany doesn't grant those, "what we consider here a very fundamental right." While, on the surface, it doesn't seem appropriate for this claim to go through ... I do believe this family has a legal and constitutional to make their claim for asylum .. All because we view such rights to be very innate to our culture.


Quoting autodidact:


I didn't ask Why it was in quotes, I was questioning your assertion that most people think the Bill of Rights is universally applicable.

I understand that rights vary from country to country, what I don't understand is what any of this has to do with homeschooling or considering homeschoolers a persecuted class qualifying for asylum.


Quoting Donna6503:

The reason why it is in quotation marks is because, the notion that "free speech," "free associations," "free press," "etc., isn't as fundamental as a right in Europe as it is here in the states.



Hard to explain, but the there is a difference in regards to a right than what is compared to here in the US





Quoting autodidact:


Um . . .  what? What does the Bill of Rights have to do with it? And actually I think most people are aware that the Bill of Rights is United States document not one which is applicable to the entire world.



Quoting Donna6503:

Not very many people realize that Europe doesn't have a "Bill of Rights" like we do, here in the "Land of Round Doorknobs."























autodidact
by Platinum Member on Mar. 25, 2013 at 4:25 PM

So if you're not homeschooler OP, is this just an opportunity to bitch about the DOJ?

jaxTheMomm
by Platinum Member on Mar. 25, 2013 at 4:28 PM

Germany is hyper-sensitive towards any group of people that might attempt to raise their children in a way that's deemed counterproductive to society in general, especially if it might result in children who are more poorly educated, or educated in a way that promotes biase against other groups of people.

autodidact
by Platinum Member on Mar. 25, 2013 at 4:28 PM


My point was that I disagree and think that most people understand that the Bill of Rights is a document of United States government. And as I mentioned before Germany does in fact guarantee freedom of religion in their constitution.

The family's case is being discussed in a court that's what the asylum cases about. I disagree that they qualify merely because their country doesn't allow them to homeschool.

Quoting Donna6503:

While, I do tend to agree with you ... I feel that this family, does indeed have enough of a legal disconcertion for a court to settle this legal matter.

I know that you understand what the Bill of Rights are in the states.

I originally stated that, "... not many people realize that Europe doesn't have a 'bill of rights." I'll stand on that assertion, a lot of people here don't even know that the Bill of Rights are the first ten amendments that you've already pointed out.

Honestly, I'm not understanding your point. If I didn't make my point clearly, I'll apologize right now.


Quoting autodidact:

No actually Bill of Rights refers to the first 10 amendments to our Constitution. I don't need a lesson on the Bill of Rights thank you.

Religious freedom is not the basis for homeschooling.  Homeschooling isn't based in religion, and many nonreligious people homeschool.

Article 4 of German basic law, or their constitution, does in  fact grant freedom of religion. Freedom of religion is not the issue here and this  German family was not being persecuted, religiously or otherwise.


Quoting Donna6503:

Again, when we in the states say, "Bill of Rights," it is basically a verbal shorthand for a whole sets of rights that we link together.



Those rights are generally taken as granted here in the states; yet, most people think that countries that are generally considered free societies accept those rights as given ... But it isn't the case.



Religious homeschooling, is accepted here; because of the notion of "free exercise of religion" and "free association" and to a certain extent the ten amendment too.



But, Germany doesn't grant those, "what we consider here a very fundamental right." While, on the surface, it doesn't seem appropriate for this claim to go through ... I do believe this family has a legal and constitutional to make their claim for asylum .. All because we view such rights to be very innate to our culture.





Quoting autodidact:


I didn't ask Why it was in quotes, I was questioning your assertion that most people think the Bill of Rights is universally applicable.

I understand that rights vary from country to country, what I don't understand is what any of this has to do with homeschooling or considering homeschoolers a persecuted class qualifying for asylum.



Quoting Donna6503:

The reason why it is in quotation marks is because, the notion that "free speech," "free associations," "free press," "etc., isn't as fundamental as a right in Europe as it is here in the states.





Hard to explain, but the there is a difference in regards to a right than what is compared to here in the US








Quoting autodidact:


Um . . .  what? What does the Bill of Rights have to do with it? And actually I think most people are aware that the Bill of Rights is United States document not one which is applicable to the entire world.




Quoting Donna6503:

Not very many people realize that Europe doesn't have a "Bill of Rights" like we do, here in the "Land of Round Doorknobs."






























Donna6503
by Platinum Member on Mar. 25, 2013 at 4:35 PM
The best way, I can call out the difference is to take a look at "Scientology" here in the states it is considered a real religion with tax exempt status. In Germany it isn't considered a religion at all and their courts have continuity ruled against Scientology




Quoting Naturewoman4:

But. Donna I read where Germany signed a International Treaty stating that an indiviual has these religious rights. It was because of all the killings by the Nazis just because of other people's religious beliefs. Why wouldn't Germany then allow their people rights to homeschool their children due to their own personal religious beliefs?




Quoting Donna6503:

Again, when we in the states say, "Bill of Rights," it is basically a verbal shorthand for a whole sets of rights that we link together.



Those rights are generally taken as granted here in the states; yet, most people think that countries that are generally considered free societies accept those rights as given ... But it isn't the case.



Religious homeschooling, is accepted here; because of the notion of "free exercise of religion" and "free association" and to a certain extent the ten amendment too.



But, Germany doesn't grant those, "what we consider here a very fundamental right." While, on the surface, it doesn't seem appropriate for this claim to go through ... I do believe this family has a legal and constitutional to make their claim for asylum .. All because we view such rights to be very innate to our culture.





Quoting autodidact:


I didn't ask Why it was in quotes, I was questioning your assertion that most people think the Bill of Rights is universally applicable.

I understand that rights vary from country to country, what I don't understand is what any of this has to do with homeschooling or considering homeschoolers a persecuted class qualifying for asylum.



Quoting Donna6503:

The reason why it is in quotation marks is because, the notion that "free speech," "free associations," "free press," "etc., isn't as fundamental as a right in Europe as it is here in the states.





Hard to explain, but the there is a difference in regards to a right than what is compared to here in the US








Quoting autodidact:


Um . . .  what? What does the Bill of Rights have to do with it? And actually I think most people are aware that the Bill of Rights is United States document not one which is applicable to the entire world.




Quoting Donna6503:

Not very many people realize that Europe doesn't have a "Bill of Rights" like we do, here in the "Land of Round Doorknobs."
























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