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If you are against abortion what are you doing to stop it?
Is it just an option or do you really apply yourself? Because to me it seems if you really believe its murder you would be active in your beliefs not just standing on the sidelines judging.
Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
by on Apr. 2, 2013 at 12:56 AM
Replies (101-110):
VeronicaTex
by on Apr. 3, 2013 at 11:20 AM

I told you what I felt in my heart.

Have a good day, jax.

Veronica

Quoting jaxTheMomm:

That was your attempt at "humble"?

Jax - Maker of Chicken Soup and  Excellent Mother

Quoting VeronicaTex:

There is a huge problem, in my humble opinion in this act of being "logical".

I see this argument that you are using, jax, is one of the most unfeeling, insensitive pieces of trash I have ever read, the same going for some of the others who have the same attitude as you: your solutions to an unwanted pregnancy.

I believe you, as well as others,  are in denial of what is the entire essence of life.

May God have mercy on you and your callous attitudes toward a living child..

May the women who find themselves thinking in any way less than acceptance or joy, find in themselves the fortitude to take responsibility of their actions, letting their unborn child live.

It is not the child's fault in any way, shape or form...Every child deserves a chance at life.

With God there is a way....always.

What I am saying , is choose love:  unconditional love...

Yes, I believe,  there is nothing logical about showing unconditional love. 

It calls for a higher, more positive and unselfish level of contemplation and action....


Veronica-Advocate for life before and after birth of children:  in reality God's children,  given to us...



Quoting jaxTheMomm:

No, I'm sorry, I thought I was pretty specific.

Criminalizing abortion only makes it very dangerous - it's going to happen anyway and it always has. It's logic, and it doen't come near making child abuse or sex trafficing or murder legal.

Do some research into what happens in countries where it's illegal, and then look at countries where it's legal but the rates are lower than ours.

An embryo under 12 weeks gestation (when most abortions occur) is not the same thing as an infant, toddler or child.  It cannot feel pain, so you kind of have to leave the whole abuse/sex/murder thing out.  It's a non-issue in this argument.

Criminalizing abortion doesn't stop it, never has.

Quoting muppet_mom:

Not sure I fully get what your argument is here. If it is because I wrote the shorthand of "vote against abortion" my answer is that I think people understand what I mean so no reason to write out the long version. If you are using the "Abortion is going to happen either way so might as well make it legal" my question to you is why criminalize anything? Rape, child abuse, sex trafficking, murder...... all haven't been stopped just because they are illegal. Should we just give up and say that even if we think something is wrong we should only outlaw it if it will 100% stop it. I guess you could argue that child abuse would be safer if it was legal because people would be more likely to bring their kid to the hospital if they weren't worried about being arrested.
Quoting jaxTheMomm:

I always find this curious, what I enlarged and bolded below.

You can't "vote against abortion".  You can vote for politicians and policies that will criminalize abortion, but that doesn't stop it.  It only makes it more dangerous for poor women.

Abortion happens whether you vote for it or not, whether it's legal or not.  We can see this in countries where abortion is illegal.  Their rates of abortion are estimated to be very high.  Their rates of women who die or are harmed in the act of an illegal abortion are certainly higher.

This doesn't seem very "pro-life" to me.

Quoting muppet_mom:

Honestly, posts like this just make me sad. I'm sorry that you have isolated yourself so much that you haven't met any pro-life supporters that care about more then just a baby's birth. I think there are plenty of people on both sides of this who care about the quality of life of a child just as there are people on both sides who are ambivalent. Personally I... -Use my voting rights to vote against abortion and for things like ethical adoption and enforcing child support. -I donate money to organizations that support children, support struggling families, and things like homes offering support to pregnant women (teens, homeless.....) -I volunteer my time working with the above listed -I'm an adoptive parent -I use my adoption experience to lend support to others adopting when I can -I've helped friends in the past with things like childcare when they have needed a little help -I listen to and support advocacy efforts by friends who have a special needs child And I know many pro-life supporters who do the same (as well as pro-choice). The idea that those who are anti-abortion just care about the child's birth or do nothing but wave signs around is a MYTH. So what do you do?
Quoting lilbit53009:

are you joking? they're all waiting to adopt all these kids! what do you think they're doing?!?!


lol...note the sarcasm. they're doing nothing. they only care about their agenda until the baby is born. then no one cares about the quality of life that child might or might not have or if it sits int he system for years waiting to be adopted.











VeronicaTex
by on Apr. 3, 2013 at 11:22 AM

I appreciate your sharing.

I appreciate you giving me my chance to speak up, whether you agree or not.

Have a good day, romalove.

Veronica

Quoting romalove:


Quoting VeronicaTex:

There is a huge problem, in my humble opinion in this act of being "logical".

I see this argument that you are using, jax, is one of the most unfeeling, insensitive pieces of trash I have ever read, the same going for some of the others who have the same attitude as you: your solutions to an unwanted pregnancy.

I believe you, as well as others,  are in denial of what is the entire essence of life.

May God have mercy on you and your callous attitudes toward a living child..

May the women who find themselves thinking in any way less than acceptance or joy, find in themselves the fortitude to take responsibility of their actions, letting their unborn child live.

It is not the child's fault in any way, shape or form...Every child deserves a chance at life.

With God there is a way....always.

What I am saying , is choose love:  unconditional love...

Yes, I believe,  there is nothing logical about showing unconditional love. 

It calls for a higher, more positive and unselfish level of contemplation and action....


Veronica-Advocate for life before and after birth of children:  in reality God's children,  given to us...



Quoting jaxTheMomm:

No, I'm sorry, I thought I was pretty specific.

Criminalizing abortion only makes it very dangerous - it's going to happen anyway and it always has. It's logic, and it doen't come near making child abuse or sex trafficing or murder legal.

Do some research into what happens in countries where it's illegal, and then look at countries where it's legal but the rates are lower than ours.

An embryo under 12 weeks gestation (when most abortions occur) is not the same thing as an infant, toddler or child.  It cannot feel pain, so you kind of have to leave the whole abuse/sex/murder thing out.  It's a non-issue in this argument.

Criminalizing abortion doesn't stop it, never has.

Quoting muppet_mom:

Not sure I fully get what your argument is here. If it is because I wrote the shorthand of "vote against abortion" my answer is that I think people understand what I mean so no reason to write out the long version. If you are using the "Abortion is going to happen either way so might as well make it legal" my question to you is why criminalize anything? Rape, child abuse, sex trafficking, murder...... all haven't been stopped just because they are illegal. Should we just give up and say that even if we think something is wrong we should only outlaw it if it will 100% stop it. I guess you could argue that child abuse would be safer if it was legal because people would be more likely to bring their kid to the hospital if they weren't worried about being arrested.
Quoting jaxTheMomm:

I always find this curious, what I enlarged and bolded below.

You can't "vote against abortion".  You can vote for politicians and policies that will criminalize abortion, but that doesn't stop it.  It only makes it more dangerous for poor women.

Abortion happens whether you vote for it or not, whether it's legal or not.  We can see this in countries where abortion is illegal.  Their rates of abortion are estimated to be very high.  Their rates of women who die or are harmed in the act of an illegal abortion are certainly higher.

This doesn't seem very "pro-life" to me.

Quoting muppet_mom:

Honestly, posts like this just make me sad. I'm sorry that you have isolated yourself so much that you haven't met any pro-life supporters that care about more then just a baby's birth. I think there are plenty of people on both sides of this who care about the quality of life of a child just as there are people on both sides who are ambivalent. Personally I... -Use my voting rights to vote against abortion and for things like ethical adoption and enforcing child support. -I donate money to organizations that support children, support struggling families, and things like homes offering support to pregnant women (teens, homeless.....) -I volunteer my time working with the above listed -I'm an adoptive parent -I use my adoption experience to lend support to others adopting when I can -I've helped friends in the past with things like childcare when they have needed a little help -I listen to and support advocacy efforts by friends who have a special needs child And I know many pro-life supporters who do the same (as well as pro-choice). The idea that those who are anti-abortion just care about the child's birth or do nothing but wave signs around is a MYTH. So what do you do?
Quoting lilbit53009:

are you joking? they're all waiting to adopt all these kids! what do you think they're doing?!?!


lol...note the sarcasm. they're doing nothing. they only care about their agenda until the baby is born. then no one cares about the quality of life that child might or might not have or if it sits int he system for years waiting to be adopted.








Why would God sometimes give us children who are created only to suffer briefly and die a horrible death?  Why would God create children in the womb who cannot survive there and are miscarried?  Why would God give us children with such severe disabilities that if they do survive it would be with little to no quality of life, often in terrible pain, only to die?  Why would God allow creation of a child in the womb of a woman who is ill and if she doesn't terminate her pregnancy and get treatment will certainly die, leaving the child motherless?

I have a huge respect for life; I gave birth three times and adore my children beyond measure.  I love nieces and nephews and the children of friends.  I personally do not think I could have an abortion, and believe that so much that I refused much of the testing people have when pregnant to determine problems with the baby because I wouldn't have aborted a child with Downs or other issues.

But none of that means I don't understand the need and reason for abortion to be safe and legal in America.  My choices are not everyone's, my morality not everyone's, my values not everyone's, and there are of course reasons beyond personal feelings for why abortion is required, especially for life and health of the mother and sometimes to prevent the birth of a child who will do nothing but suffer until they die.

Those who truly believe abortion to be evil should be working towards making it as rare as possible, which in great part means being good birth control advocates -- which I notice many in the anti-choice movement are also against birth control.

Your values, your life, your choices, all yours.  People should not be visiting those on others.


romalove
by Roma on Apr. 3, 2013 at 11:25 AM
1 mom liked this


Quoting VeronicaTex:

I appreciate your sharing.

I appreciate you giving me my chance to speak up, whether you agree or not.

Have a good day, romalove.

Veronica

Quoting romalove:


Quoting VeronicaTex:

There is a huge problem, in my humble opinion in this act of being "logical".

I see this argument that you are using, jax, is one of the most unfeeling, insensitive pieces of trash I have ever read, the same going for some of the others who have the same attitude as you: your solutions to an unwanted pregnancy.

I believe you, as well as others,  are in denial of what is the entire essence of life.

May God have mercy on you and your callous attitudes toward a living child..

May the women who find themselves thinking in any way less than acceptance or joy, find in themselves the fortitude to take responsibility of their actions, letting their unborn child live.

It is not the child's fault in any way, shape or form...Every child deserves a chance at life.

With God there is a way....always.

What I am saying , is choose love:  unconditional love...

Yes, I believe,  there is nothing logical about showing unconditional love. 

It calls for a higher, more positive and unselfish level of contemplation and action....


Veronica-Advocate for life before and after birth of children:  in reality God's children,  given to us...



Quoting jaxTheMomm:

No, I'm sorry, I thought I was pretty specific.

Criminalizing abortion only makes it very dangerous - it's going to happen anyway and it always has. It's logic, and it doen't come near making child abuse or sex trafficing or murder legal.

Do some research into what happens in countries where it's illegal, and then look at countries where it's legal but the rates are lower than ours.

An embryo under 12 weeks gestation (when most abortions occur) is not the same thing as an infant, toddler or child.  It cannot feel pain, so you kind of have to leave the whole abuse/sex/murder thing out.  It's a non-issue in this argument.

Criminalizing abortion doesn't stop it, never has.

Quoting muppet_mom:

Not sure I fully get what your argument is here. If it is because I wrote the shorthand of "vote against abortion" my answer is that I think people understand what I mean so no reason to write out the long version. If you are using the "Abortion is going to happen either way so might as well make it legal" my question to you is why criminalize anything? Rape, child abuse, sex trafficking, murder...... all haven't been stopped just because they are illegal. Should we just give up and say that even if we think something is wrong we should only outlaw it if it will 100% stop it. I guess you could argue that child abuse would be safer if it was legal because people would be more likely to bring their kid to the hospital if they weren't worried about being arrested.
Quoting jaxTheMomm:

I always find this curious, what I enlarged and bolded below.

You can't "vote against abortion".  You can vote for politicians and policies that will criminalize abortion, but that doesn't stop it.  It only makes it more dangerous for poor women.

Abortion happens whether you vote for it or not, whether it's legal or not.  We can see this in countries where abortion is illegal.  Their rates of abortion are estimated to be very high.  Their rates of women who die or are harmed in the act of an illegal abortion are certainly higher.

This doesn't seem very "pro-life" to me.

Quoting muppet_mom:

Honestly, posts like this just make me sad. I'm sorry that you have isolated yourself so much that you haven't met any pro-life supporters that care about more then just a baby's birth. I think there are plenty of people on both sides of this who care about the quality of life of a child just as there are people on both sides who are ambivalent. Personally I... -Use my voting rights to vote against abortion and for things like ethical adoption and enforcing child support. -I donate money to organizations that support children, support struggling families, and things like homes offering support to pregnant women (teens, homeless.....) -I volunteer my time working with the above listed -I'm an adoptive parent -I use my adoption experience to lend support to others adopting when I can -I've helped friends in the past with things like childcare when they have needed a little help -I listen to and support advocacy efforts by friends who have a special needs child And I know many pro-life supporters who do the same (as well as pro-choice). The idea that those who are anti-abortion just care about the child's birth or do nothing but wave signs around is a MYTH. So what do you do?
Quoting lilbit53009:

are you joking? they're all waiting to adopt all these kids! what do you think they're doing?!?!


lol...note the sarcasm. they're doing nothing. they only care about their agenda until the baby is born. then no one cares about the quality of life that child might or might not have or if it sits int he system for years waiting to be adopted.








Why would God sometimes give us children who are created only to suffer briefly and die a horrible death?  Why would God create children in the womb who cannot survive there and are miscarried?  Why would God give us children with such severe disabilities that if they do survive it would be with little to no quality of life, often in terrible pain, only to die?  Why would God allow creation of a child in the womb of a woman who is ill and if she doesn't terminate her pregnancy and get treatment will certainly die, leaving the child motherless?

I have a huge respect for life; I gave birth three times and adore my children beyond measure.  I love nieces and nephews and the children of friends.  I personally do not think I could have an abortion, and believe that so much that I refused much of the testing people have when pregnant to determine problems with the baby because I wouldn't have aborted a child with Downs or other issues.

But none of that means I don't understand the need and reason for abortion to be safe and legal in America.  My choices are not everyone's, my morality not everyone's, my values not everyone's, and there are of course reasons beyond personal feelings for why abortion is required, especially for life and health of the mother and sometimes to prevent the birth of a child who will do nothing but suffer until they die.

Those who truly believe abortion to be evil should be working towards making it as rare as possible, which in great part means being good birth control advocates -- which I notice many in the anti-choice movement are also against birth control.

Your values, your life, your choices, all yours.  People should not be visiting those on others.


You have a good day too.

jaxTheMomm
by Platinum Member on Apr. 3, 2013 at 11:32 AM
2 moms liked this

What is in your heart is apparently the need to insult and misrepresent.

I'm not the slightest bit insensitive, callous or uncaring, I don't know why you immediately leap to those conclusions.  I'm a very kind and loving women, but I have little patience for you anymore. 

What I said was the truth - criminalizing abortion DOES make it dangerous, but it certainly doesn't stop it.

I will have a good day.  You have one too.

Quoting VeronicaTex:

I told you what I felt in my heart.

Have a good day, jax.

Veronica

Quoting jaxTheMomm:

That was your attempt at "humble"?

Jax - Maker of Chicken Soup and  Excellent Mother

Quoting VeronicaTex:

There is a huge problem, in my humble opinion in this act of being "logical".

I see this argument that you are using, jax, is one of the most unfeeling, insensitive pieces of trash I have ever read, the same going for some of the others who have the same attitude as you: your solutions to an unwanted pregnancy.

I believe you, as well as others,  are in denial of what is the entire essence of life.

May God have mercy on you and your callous attitudes toward a living child..

May the women who find themselves thinking in any way less than acceptance or joy, find in themselves the fortitude to take responsibility of their actions, letting their unborn child live.

It is not the child's fault in any way, shape or form...Every child deserves a chance at life.

With God there is a way....always.

What I am saying , is choose love:  unconditional love...

Yes, I believe,  there is nothing logical about showing unconditional love. 

It calls for a higher, more positive and unselfish level of contemplation and action....


Veronica-Advocate for life before and after birth of children:  in reality God's children,  given to us...



Quoting jaxTheMomm:

No, I'm sorry, I thought I was pretty specific.

Criminalizing abortion only makes it very dangerous - it's going to happen anyway and it always has. It's logic, and it doen't come near making child abuse or sex trafficing or murder legal.

Do some research into what happens in countries where it's illegal, and then look at countries where it's legal but the rates are lower than ours.

An embryo under 12 weeks gestation (when most abortions occur) is not the same thing as an infant, toddler or child.  It cannot feel pain, so you kind of have to leave the whole abuse/sex/murder thing out.  It's a non-issue in this argument.

Criminalizing abortion doesn't stop it, never has.

Quoting muppet_mom:

Not sure I fully get what your argument is here. If it is because I wrote the shorthand of "vote against abortion" my answer is that I think people understand what I mean so no reason to write out the long version. If you are using the "Abortion is going to happen either way so might as well make it legal" my question to you is why criminalize anything? Rape, child abuse, sex trafficking, murder...... all haven't been stopped just because they are illegal. Should we just give up and say that even if we think something is wrong we should only outlaw it if it will 100% stop it. I guess you could argue that child abuse would be safer if it was legal because people would be more likely to bring their kid to the hospital if they weren't worried about being arrested.
Quoting jaxTheMomm:

I always find this curious, what I enlarged and bolded below.

You can't "vote against abortion".  You can vote for politicians and policies that will criminalize abortion, but that doesn't stop it.  It only makes it more dangerous for poor women.

Abortion happens whether you vote for it or not, whether it's legal or not.  We can see this in countries where abortion is illegal.  Their rates of abortion are estimated to be very high.  Their rates of women who die or are harmed in the act of an illegal abortion are certainly higher.

This doesn't seem very "pro-life" to me.

Quoting muppet_mom:

Honestly, posts like this just make me sad. I'm sorry that you have isolated yourself so much that you haven't met any pro-life supporters that care about more then just a baby's birth. I think there are plenty of people on both sides of this who care about the quality of life of a child just as there are people on both sides who are ambivalent. Personally I... -Use my voting rights to vote against abortion and for things like ethical adoption and enforcing child support. -I donate money to organizations that support children, support struggling families, and things like homes offering support to pregnant women (teens, homeless.....) -I volunteer my time working with the above listed -I'm an adoptive parent -I use my adoption experience to lend support to others adopting when I can -I've helped friends in the past with things like childcare when they have needed a little help -I listen to and support advocacy efforts by friends who have a special needs child And I know many pro-life supporters who do the same (as well as pro-choice). The idea that those who are anti-abortion just care about the child's birth or do nothing but wave signs around is a MYTH. So what do you do?
Quoting lilbit53009:

are you joking? they're all waiting to adopt all these kids! what do you think they're doing?!?!


lol...note the sarcasm. they're doing nothing. they only care about their agenda until the baby is born. then no one cares about the quality of life that child might or might not have or if it sits int he system for years waiting to be adopted.













celestegood
by Silver Member on Apr. 3, 2013 at 11:34 AM
Bump
Posted on CafeMom Mobile
babyspots17
by Bronze Member on Apr. 3, 2013 at 12:06 PM

I disagree with abortion 99%of the time but I am not going to stand out side medical centers or high schools spueing out garbage with horrible dismembered fetus photos on a stick that to me is just crazy!  However if a higher official was trying to pass good laws that I thought were fair I would have no problem backing them however I could. 

VeronicaTex
by on Apr. 3, 2013 at 12:11 PM

I am back for a bit to address you.

I have known you for quite a while:  how you think, how you respond, how you insult, ect.

If you must know I am disagreeing with you the most on when life begins.

I am not the one you will be living with, but if my remarks got you to think and look at yourself through the eyes of another, fine.

You may be loving in real life or around your buddies, but with me, you rub me the wrong way.


I can take very good care of myself.  

I know what I need to do to improve...I talk to God constantly, something you can't even begin to touch, jax....

Veronica

Quoting jaxTheMomm:

What is in your heart is apparently the need to insult and misrepresent.

I'm not the slightest bit insensitive, callous or uncaring, I don't know why you immediately leap to those conclusions.  I'm a very kind and loving women, but I have little patience for you anymore. 

What I said was the truth - criminalizing abortion DOES make it dangerous, but it certainly doesn't stop it.

I will have a good day.  You have one too.

Quoting VeronicaTex:

I told you what I felt in my heart.

Have a good day, jax.

Veronica

Quoting jaxTheMomm:

That was your attempt at "humble"?

Jax - Maker of Chicken Soup and  Excellent Mother

Quoting VeronicaTex:

There is a huge problem, in my humble opinion in this act of being "logical".

I see this argument that you are using, jax, is one of the most unfeeling, insensitive pieces of trash I have ever read, the same going for some of the others who have the same attitude as you: your solutions to an unwanted pregnancy.

I believe you, as well as others,  are in denial of what is the entire essence of life.

May God have mercy on you and your callous attitudes toward a living child..

May the women who find themselves thinking in any way less than acceptance or joy, find in themselves the fortitude to take responsibility of their actions, letting their unborn child live.

It is not the child's fault in any way, shape or form...Every child deserves a chance at life.

With God there is a way....always.

What I am saying , is choose love:  unconditional love...

Yes, I believe,  there is nothing logical about showing unconditional love. 

It calls for a higher, more positive and unselfish level of contemplation and action....


Veronica-Advocate for life before and after birth of children:  in reality God's children,  given to us...



Quoting jaxTheMomm:

No, I'm sorry, I thought I was pretty specific.

Criminalizing abortion only makes it very dangerous - it's going to happen anyway and it always has. It's logic, and it doen't come near making child abuse or sex trafficing or murder legal.

Do some research into what happens in countries where it's illegal, and then look at countries where it's legal but the rates are lower than ours.

An embryo under 12 weeks gestation (when most abortions occur) is not the same thing as an infant, toddler or child.  It cannot feel pain, so you kind of have to leave the whole abuse/sex/murder thing out.  It's a non-issue in this argument.

Criminalizing abortion doesn't stop it, never has.

Quoting muppet_mom:

Not sure I fully get what your argument is here. If it is because I wrote the shorthand of "vote against abortion" my answer is that I think people understand what I mean so no reason to write out the long version. If you are using the "Abortion is going to happen either way so might as well make it legal" my question to you is why criminalize anything? Rape, child abuse, sex trafficking, murder...... all haven't been stopped just because they are illegal. Should we just give up and say that even if we think something is wrong we should only outlaw it if it will 100% stop it. I guess you could argue that child abuse would be safer if it was legal because people would be more likely to bring their kid to the hospital if they weren't worried about being arrested.
Quoting jaxTheMomm:

I always find this curious, what I enlarged and bolded below.

You can't "vote against abortion".  You can vote for politicians and policies that will criminalize abortion, but that doesn't stop it.  It only makes it more dangerous for poor women.

Abortion happens whether you vote for it or not, whether it's legal or not.  We can see this in countries where abortion is illegal.  Their rates of abortion are estimated to be very high.  Their rates of women who die or are harmed in the act of an illegal abortion are certainly higher.

This doesn't seem very "pro-life" to me.

Quoting muppet_mom:

Honestly, posts like this just make me sad. I'm sorry that you have isolated yourself so much that you haven't met any pro-life supporters that care about more then just a baby's birth. I think there are plenty of people on both sides of this who care about the quality of life of a child just as there are people on both sides who are ambivalent. Personally I... -Use my voting rights to vote against abortion and for things like ethical adoption and enforcing child support. -I donate money to organizations that support children, support struggling families, and things like homes offering support to pregnant women (teens, homeless.....) -I volunteer my time working with the above listed -I'm an adoptive parent -I use my adoption experience to lend support to others adopting when I can -I've helped friends in the past with things like childcare when they have needed a little help -I listen to and support advocacy efforts by friends who have a special needs child And I know many pro-life supporters who do the same (as well as pro-choice). The idea that those who are anti-abortion just care about the child's birth or do nothing but wave signs around is a MYTH. So what do you do?
Quoting lilbit53009:

are you joking? they're all waiting to adopt all these kids! what do you think they're doing?!?!


lol...note the sarcasm. they're doing nothing. they only care about their agenda until the baby is born. then no one cares about the quality of life that child might or might not have or if it sits int he system for years waiting to be adopted.














jaxTheMomm
by Platinum Member on Apr. 3, 2013 at 12:42 PM

Where did I state where I believe life begins?

Quoting VeronicaTex:

I am back for a bit to address you.

I have known you for quite a while:  how you think, how you respond, how you insult, ect.

If you must know I am disagreeing with you the most on when life begins.

I am not the one you will be living with, but if my remarks got you to think and look at yourself through the eyes of another, fine.

You may be loving in real life or around your buddies, but with me, you rub me the wrong way.


I can take very good care of myself.  

I know what I need to do to improve...I talk to God constantly, something you can't even begin to touch, jax....

Veronica

Quoting jaxTheMomm:

What is in your heart is apparently the need to insult and misrepresent.

I'm not the slightest bit insensitive, callous or uncaring, I don't know why you immediately leap to those conclusions.  I'm a very kind and loving women, but I have little patience for you anymore. 

What I said was the truth - criminalizing abortion DOES make it dangerous, but it certainly doesn't stop it.

I will have a good day.  You have one too.

Quoting VeronicaTex:

I told you what I felt in my heart.

Have a good day, jax.

Veronica

Quoting jaxTheMomm:

That was your attempt at "humble"?

Jax - Maker of Chicken Soup and  Excellent Mother

Quoting VeronicaTex:

There is a huge problem, in my humble opinion in this act of being "logical".

I see this argument that you are using, jax, is one of the most unfeeling, insensitive pieces of trash I have ever read, the same going for some of the others who have the same attitude as you: your solutions to an unwanted pregnancy.

I believe you, as well as others,  are in denial of what is the entire essence of life.

May God have mercy on you and your callous attitudes toward a living child..

May the women who find themselves thinking in any way less than acceptance or joy, find in themselves the fortitude to take responsibility of their actions, letting their unborn child live.

It is not the child's fault in any way, shape or form...Every child deserves a chance at life.

With God there is a way....always.

What I am saying , is choose love:  unconditional love...

Yes, I believe,  there is nothing logical about showing unconditional love. 

It calls for a higher, more positive and unselfish level of contemplation and action....


Veronica-Advocate for life before and after birth of children:  in reality God's children,  given to us...



Quoting jaxTheMomm:

No, I'm sorry, I thought I was pretty specific.

Criminalizing abortion only makes it very dangerous - it's going to happen anyway and it always has. It's logic, and it doen't come near making child abuse or sex trafficing or murder legal.

Do some research into what happens in countries where it's illegal, and then look at countries where it's legal but the rates are lower than ours.

An embryo under 12 weeks gestation (when most abortions occur) is not the same thing as an infant, toddler or child.  It cannot feel pain, so you kind of have to leave the whole abuse/sex/murder thing out.  It's a non-issue in this argument.

Criminalizing abortion doesn't stop it, never has.

Quoting muppet_mom:

Not sure I fully get what your argument is here. If it is because I wrote the shorthand of "vote against abortion" my answer is that I think people understand what I mean so no reason to write out the long version. If you are using the "Abortion is going to happen either way so might as well make it legal" my question to you is why criminalize anything? Rape, child abuse, sex trafficking, murder...... all haven't been stopped just because they are illegal. Should we just give up and say that even if we think something is wrong we should only outlaw it if it will 100% stop it. I guess you could argue that child abuse would be safer if it was legal because people would be more likely to bring their kid to the hospital if they weren't worried about being arrested.
Quoting jaxTheMomm:

I always find this curious, what I enlarged and bolded below.

You can't "vote against abortion".  You can vote for politicians and policies that will criminalize abortion, but that doesn't stop it.  It only makes it more dangerous for poor women.

Abortion happens whether you vote for it or not, whether it's legal or not.  We can see this in countries where abortion is illegal.  Their rates of abortion are estimated to be very high.  Their rates of women who die or are harmed in the act of an illegal abortion are certainly higher.

This doesn't seem very "pro-life" to me.

Quoting muppet_mom:

Honestly, posts like this just make me sad. I'm sorry that you have isolated yourself so much that you haven't met any pro-life supporters that care about more then just a baby's birth. I think there are plenty of people on both sides of this who care about the quality of life of a child just as there are people on both sides who are ambivalent. Personally I... -Use my voting rights to vote against abortion and for things like ethical adoption and enforcing child support. -I donate money to organizations that support children, support struggling families, and things like homes offering support to pregnant women (teens, homeless.....) -I volunteer my time working with the above listed -I'm an adoptive parent -I use my adoption experience to lend support to others adopting when I can -I've helped friends in the past with things like childcare when they have needed a little help -I listen to and support advocacy efforts by friends who have a special needs child And I know many pro-life supporters who do the same (as well as pro-choice). The idea that those who are anti-abortion just care about the child's birth or do nothing but wave signs around is a MYTH. So what do you do?
Quoting lilbit53009:

are you joking? they're all waiting to adopt all these kids! what do you think they're doing?!?!


lol...note the sarcasm. they're doing nothing. they only care about their agenda until the baby is born. then no one cares about the quality of life that child might or might not have or if it sits int he system for years waiting to be adopted.
















SandyLaxner
by Bronze Member on Apr. 3, 2013 at 1:03 PM

 


Quoting VeronicaTex:

I am back for a bit to address you.

I have known you for quite a while:  how you think, how you respond, how you insult, ect.

If you must know I am disagreeing with you the most on when life begins.

I am not the one you will be living with, but if my remarks got you to think and look at yourself through the eyes of another, fine.

You may be loving in real life or around your buddies, but with me, you rub me the wrong way.


I can take very good care of myself.  

I know what I need to do to improve...I talk to God constantly, something you can't even begin to touch, jax....

Veronica

Quoting jaxTheMomm:

What is in your heart is apparently the need to insult and misrepresent.

I'm not the slightest bit insensitive, callous or uncaring, I don't know why you immediately leap to those conclusions.  I'm a very kind and loving women, but I have little patience for you anymore. 

What I said was the truth - criminalizing abortion DOES make it dangerous, but it certainly doesn't stop it.

I will have a good day.  You have one too.

Quoting VeronicaTex:

I told you what I felt in my heart.

Have a good day, jax.

Veronica

Quoting jaxTheMomm:

That was your attempt at "humble"?

Jax - Maker of Chicken Soup and  Excellent Mother

Quoting VeronicaTex:

There is a huge problem, in my humble opinion in this act of being "logical".

I see this argument that you are using, jax, is one of the most unfeeling, insensitive pieces of trash I have ever read, the same going for some of the others who have the same attitude as you: your solutions to an unwanted pregnancy.

I believe you, as well as others,  are in denial of what is the entire essence of life.

May God have mercy on you and your callous attitudes toward a living child..

May the women who find themselves thinking in any way less than acceptance or joy, find in themselves the fortitude to take responsibility of their actions, letting their unborn child live.

It is not the child's fault in any way, shape or form...Every child deserves a chance at life.

With God there is a way....always.

What I am saying , is choose love:  unconditional love...

Yes, I believe,  there is nothing logical about showing unconditional love. 

It calls for a higher, more positive and unselfish level of contemplation and action....


Veronica-Advocate for life before and after birth of children:  in reality God's children,  given to us...



Quoting jaxTheMomm:

No, I'm sorry, I thought I was pretty specific.

Criminalizing abortion only makes it very dangerous - it's going to happen anyway and it always has. It's logic, and it doen't come near making child abuse or sex trafficing or murder legal.

Do some research into what happens in countries where it's illegal, and then look at countries where it's legal but the rates are lower than ours.

An embryo under 12 weeks gestation (when most abortions occur) is not the same thing as an infant, toddler or child.  It cannot feel pain, so you kind of have to leave the whole abuse/sex/murder thing out.  It's a non-issue in this argument.

Criminalizing abortion doesn't stop it, never has.

Quoting muppet_mom:

Not sure I fully get what your argument is here. If it is because I wrote the shorthand of "vote against abortion" my answer is that I think people understand what I mean so no reason to write out the long version. If you are using the "Abortion is going to happen either way so might as well make it legal" my question to you is why criminalize anything? Rape, child abuse, sex trafficking, murder...... all haven't been stopped just because they are illegal. Should we just give up and say that even if we think something is wrong we should only outlaw it if it will 100% stop it. I guess you could argue that child abuse would be safer if it was legal because people would be more likely to bring their kid to the hospital if they weren't worried about being arrested.
Quoting jaxTheMomm:

I always find this curious, what I enlarged and bolded below.

You can't "vote against abortion".  You can vote for politicians and policies that will criminalize abortion, but that doesn't stop it.  It only makes it more dangerous for poor women.

Abortion happens whether you vote for it or not, whether it's legal or not.  We can see this in countries where abortion is illegal.  Their rates of abortion are estimated to be very high.  Their rates of women who die or are harmed in the act of an illegal abortion are certainly higher.

This doesn't seem very "pro-life" to me.

Quoting muppet_mom:

Honestly, posts like this just make me sad. I'm sorry that you have isolated yourself so much that you haven't met any pro-life supporters that care about more then just a baby's birth. I think there are plenty of people on both sides of this who care about the quality of life of a child just as there are people on both sides who are ambivalent. Personally I... -Use my voting rights to vote against abortion and for things like ethical adoption and enforcing child support. -I donate money to organizations that support children, support struggling families, and things like homes offering support to pregnant women (teens, homeless.....) -I volunteer my time working with the above listed -I'm an adoptive parent -I use my adoption experience to lend support to others adopting when I can -I've helped friends in the past with things like childcare when they have needed a little help -I listen to and support advocacy efforts by friends who have a special needs child And I know many pro-life supporters who do the same (as well as pro-choice). The idea that those who are anti-abortion just care about the child's birth or do nothing but wave signs around is a MYTH. So what do you do?
Quoting lilbit53009:

are you joking? they're all waiting to adopt all these kids! what do you think they're doing?!?!

 

lol...note the sarcasm. they're doing nothing. they only care about their agenda until the baby is born. then no one cares about the quality of life that child might or might not have or if it sits int he system for years waiting to be adopted.


 

 


 

 


 

 


 

 


VERONICA-TY for standing up to the bullies.  I feel like this world's just turned upside down sometimes,where we are debating when life begins,and who is a life and who is not,abortion as "reproductive rights" **SHUDDER**

 

VeronicaTex
by on Apr. 3, 2013 at 1:08 PM
1 mom liked this

Thank you, as always, for the Christian support!!!!

It means so much to me.!!!

In my next reply I will be quoting jax to show her, because it seems she forgot what she wrote, when she believes life begins and ends, and why I believe she is "what she is".  I am not wasting my time to remind her of that one more time.

Blessings, Sandy

Veronica-Catholic Christian 

Quoting SandyLaxner:



Quoting VeronicaTex:

I am back for a bit to address you.

I have known you for quite a while:  how you think, how you respond, how you insult, ect.

If you must know I am disagreeing with you the most on when life begins.

I am not the one you will be living with, but if my remarks got you to think and look at yourself through the eyes of another, fine.

You may be loving in real life or around your buddies, but with me, you rub me the wrong way.


I can take very good care of myself.  

I know what I need to do to improve...I talk to God constantly, something you can't even begin to touch, jax....

Veronica

Quoting jaxTheMomm:

What is in your heart is apparently the need to insult and misrepresent.

I'm not the slightest bit insensitive, callous or uncaring, I don't know why you immediately leap to those conclusions.  I'm a very kind and loving women, but I have little patience for you anymore. 

What I said was the truth - criminalizing abortion DOES make it dangerous, but it certainly doesn't stop it.

I will have a good day.  You have one too.

Quoting VeronicaTex:

I told you what I felt in my heart.

Have a good day, jax.

Veronica

Quoting jaxTheMomm:

That was your attempt at "humble"?

Jax - Maker of Chicken Soup and  Excellent Mother

Quoting VeronicaTex:

There is a huge problem, in my humble opinion in this act of being "logical".

I see this argument that you are using, jax, is one of the most unfeeling, insensitive pieces of trash I have ever read, the same going for some of the others who have the same attitude as you: your solutions to an unwanted pregnancy.

I believe you, as well as others,  are in denial of what is the entire essence of life.

May God have mercy on you and your callous attitudes toward a living child..

May the women who find themselves thinking in any way less than acceptance or joy, find in themselves the fortitude to take responsibility of their actions, letting their unborn child live.

It is not the child's fault in any way, shape or form...Every child deserves a chance at life.

With God there is a way....always.

What I am saying , is choose love:  unconditional love...

Yes, I believe,  there is nothing logical about showing unconditional love. 

It calls for a higher, more positive and unselfish level of contemplation and action....


Veronica-Advocate for life before and after birth of children:  in reality God's children,  given to us...



Quoting jaxTheMomm:

No, I'm sorry, I thought I was pretty specific.

Criminalizing abortion only makes it very dangerous - it's going to happen anyway and it always has. It's logic, and it doen't come near making child abuse or sex trafficing or murder legal.

Do some research into what happens in countries where it's illegal, and then look at countries where it's legal but the rates are lower than ours.

An embryo under 12 weeks gestation (when most abortions occur) is not the same thing as an infant, toddler or child.  It cannot feel pain, so you kind of have to leave the whole abuse/sex/murder thing out.  It's a non-issue in this argument.

Criminalizing abortion doesn't stop it, never has.

Quoting muppet_mom:

Not sure I fully get what your argument is here. If it is because I wrote the shorthand of "vote against abortion" my answer is that I think people understand what I mean so no reason to write out the long version. If you are using the "Abortion is going to happen either way so might as well make it legal" my question to you is why criminalize anything? Rape, child abuse, sex trafficking, murder...... all haven't been stopped just because they are illegal. Should we just give up and say that even if we think something is wrong we should only outlaw it if it will 100% stop it. I guess you could argue that child abuse would be safer if it was legal because people would be more likely to bring their kid to the hospital if they weren't worried about being arrested.
Quoting jaxTheMomm:

I always find this curious, what I enlarged and bolded below.

You can't "vote against abortion".  You can vote for politicians and policies that will criminalize abortion, but that doesn't stop it.  It only makes it more dangerous for poor women.

Abortion happens whether you vote for it or not, whether it's legal or not.  We can see this in countries where abortion is illegal.  Their rates of abortion are estimated to be very high.  Their rates of women who die or are harmed in the act of an illegal abortion are certainly higher.

This doesn't seem very "pro-life" to me.

Quoting muppet_mom:

Honestly, posts like this just make me sad. I'm sorry that you have isolated yourself so much that you haven't met any pro-life supporters that care about more then just a baby's birth. I think there are plenty of people on both sides of this who care about the quality of life of a child just as there are people on both sides who are ambivalent. Personally I... -Use my voting rights to vote against abortion and for things like ethical adoption and enforcing child support. -I donate money to organizations that support children, support struggling families, and things like homes offering support to pregnant women (teens, homeless.....) -I volunteer my time working with the above listed -I'm an adoptive parent -I use my adoption experience to lend support to others adopting when I can -I've helped friends in the past with things like childcare when they have needed a little help -I listen to and support advocacy efforts by friends who have a special needs child And I know many pro-life supporters who do the same (as well as pro-choice). The idea that those who are anti-abortion just care about the child's birth or do nothing but wave signs around is a MYTH. So what do you do?
Quoting lilbit53009:

are you joking? they're all waiting to adopt all these kids! what do you think they're doing?!?!


lol...note the sarcasm. they're doing nothing. they only care about their agenda until the baby is born. then no one cares about the quality of life that child might or might not have or if it sits int he system for years waiting to be adopted.














VERONICA-TY for standing up to the bullies.  I feel like this world's just turned upside down sometimes,where we are debating when life begins,and who is a life and who is not,abortion as "reproductive rights" **SHUDDER**



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