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If you are against abortion what are you doing to stop it?
Is it just an option or do you really apply yourself? Because to me it seems if you really believe its murder you would be active in your beliefs not just standing on the sidelines judging.
Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
by on Apr. 2, 2013 at 12:56 AM
Replies (121-130):
jaxTheMomm
by Platinum Member on Apr. 3, 2013 at 2:09 PM

Hey, NOBODY, you should see how she ignores me.


Quoting LindaClement:

This is what being ignored looks like in your world? Wow.

It's not MY faith, and I make no claim to agree with it, much less hope to pretend that anyone thinks I actually behave it.

So, you don't know the history of that dogma, or you choose to ignore the facts because they're inconvenient to expedient, modern thought?

Relativism, anyone?

Quoting VeronicaTex:

You are NOBODY to be teaching about love thy neighbor as yourself, either,  Linda.

Your reputation precedes you...

You are also being ignored.

Veronica

Quoting LindaClement:

It doesn't matter what it justifies TO YOU.

YOU Christians, particularly Catholics, believe:

You shall love the Lord your God with your whole heart, and with your whole soul, and with your whole mind, and with your whole strength; you shall love your neighbor as yourself.

Which is startlingly difficult to see in your writing.

You may like to read any history of the theory of 'life begins at conception.'

While Catholicism is some number of decades old, that 'doctrine' arrived in the 70s. The 1970s, that is.

Quoting VeronicaTex:

You did write what I highlighted and enlarged, didn't you?

What I will add here, seeing the insensitivity of your remarks, as if it doesn't matter that an abortion is performed for this reason:  You imply that an abortion is all right because the embryo (it, according to you,)   feels NO PAIN.

This to me, does NOT justify Abortion.

We Christians, particularly Catholics believe life begins at conception.

Veronica

Quoting jaxTheMomm:

Where did I state where I believe life begins?



Quoting jaxTheMomm:

No, I'm sorry, I thought I was pretty specific.

Criminalizing abortion only makes it very dangerous - it's going to happen anyway and it always has. It's logic, and it doen't come near making child abuse or sex trafficing or murder legal.

Do some research into what happens in countries where it's illegal, and then look at countries where it's legal but the rates are lower than ours.

An embryo under 12 weeks gestation (when most abortions occur) is not the same thing as an infant, toddler or child.  It cannot feel pain, so you kind of have to leave the whole abuse/sex/murder thing out.  It's a non-issue in this argument.

Criminalizing abortion doesn't stop it, never has.























LindaClement
by Thatwoman on Apr. 3, 2013 at 5:51 PM

I've seen that.

I don't think that word means what she thinks it means :D

Quoting jaxTheMomm:

Hey, NOBODY, you should see how she ignores me.


Quoting LindaClement:

This is what being ignored looks like in your world? Wow.

It's not MY faith, and I make no claim to agree with it, much less hope to pretend that anyone thinks I actually behave it.

So, you don't know the history of that dogma, or you choose to ignore the facts because they're inconvenient to expedient, modern thought?

Relativism, anyone?

Quoting VeronicaTex:

You are NOBODY to be teaching about love thy neighbor as yourself, either,  Linda.

Your reputation precedes you...

You are also being ignored.

Veronica

Quoting LindaClement:

It doesn't matter what it justifies TO YOU.

YOU Christians, particularly Catholics, believe:

You shall love the Lord your God with your whole heart, and with your whole soul, and with your whole mind, and with your whole strength; you shall love your neighbor as yourself.

Which is startlingly difficult to see in your writing.

You may like to read any history of the theory of 'life begins at conception.'

While Catholicism is some number of decades old, that 'doctrine' arrived in the 70s. The 1970s, that is.

Quoting VeronicaTex:

You did write what I highlighted and enlarged, didn't you?

What I will add here, seeing the insensitivity of your remarks, as if it doesn't matter that an abortion is performed for this reason:  You imply that an abortion is all right because the embryo (it, according to you,)   feels NO PAIN.

This to me, does NOT justify Abortion.

We Christians, particularly Catholics believe life begins at conception.

Veronica

Quoting jaxTheMomm:

Where did I state where I believe life begins?



Quoting jaxTheMomm:

No, I'm sorry, I thought I was pretty specific.

Criminalizing abortion only makes it very dangerous - it's going to happen anyway and it always has. It's logic, and it doen't come near making child abuse or sex trafficing or murder legal.

Do some research into what happens in countries where it's illegal, and then look at countries where it's legal but the rates are lower than ours.

An embryo under 12 weeks gestation (when most abortions occur) is not the same thing as an infant, toddler or child.  It cannot feel pain, so you kind of have to leave the whole abuse/sex/murder thing out.  It's a non-issue in this argument.

Criminalizing abortion doesn't stop it, never has.
























SaraCate
by Member on Apr. 3, 2013 at 9:36 PM

A couple of things:

Statisically, illegalizing abortion correlates with higher abortion rates.  Not just higher unsafe abortion rates - higher rates, period.

Second, for those who would choose that abortion be illegal, what should the penalty under the law be for women who engage in the crime?


Quoting muppet_mom:

Not sure I fully get what your argument is here. If it is because I wrote the shorthand of "vote against abortion" my answer is that I think people understand what I mean so no reason to write out the long version. If you are using the "Abortion is going to happen either way so might as well make it legal" my question to you is why criminalize anything? Rape, child abuse, sex trafficking, murder...... all haven't been stopped just because they are illegal. Should we just give up and say that even if we think something is wrong we should only outlaw it if it will 100% stop it. I guess you could argue that child abuse would be safer if it was legal because people would be more likely to bring their kid to the hospital if they weren't worried about being arrested.
Quoting jaxTheMomm:

I al


kaylasmom22
by on Apr. 3, 2013 at 9:47 PM
Half of those against abortion who preach about it being a sin,are the first to judge those on pa and judge other moms cause they can't afford kids. Don't abort but don't go on PA or any gov help. Smfh
Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
Imacakebaker
by on Apr. 3, 2013 at 9:49 PM

I think if you have an abortion, and can kill your baby, you should be immediately sterilized.  PERIOD.  That would end selfish abortions ASAP.

If you are going to slut around, and you are pro baby killing, use birth control.  It is  available and easy to use. 

People are willing to adopt babies!!  There are people on long waiting lists to adopt a baby, so there is no reason AT ALL to kill your baby.

muppet_mom
by Member on Apr. 4, 2013 at 9:47 PM
Actually, I've never seen a study that says making abortion illegal causes an increase in the abortion rate, but if you provide me a link or source I'll be happy to review it. Logically, it just doesn't make sense. It would imply that a women had decided not to have an abortion would change her mind because it is illegal. It would be a weird form of rebellion. I have seen one study that reports that countries where abortion is legal the abortion rates are lower. Assuming that is true it isn't the same thing as saying "illegalizing" abortion correlates to an increased rate. This is also a statistics 101 common mistake. Correlation does not equal causation. For example, lets say I handed you a study that said the abortion rate is higher in countries that have a higher rate of HIV. You could say you have correlation but not causation. In other words you can't conclude that abortion causes an increase in HIV. Abortion in a complex social issue that is hard to study looking at just one factor (legal vs illegal). I do believe that making abortion illegal is only one part of reducing the numbers which is why personally I'm 100% more likely to be volunteering at a shelter for pregnant women then I am holding a protest sign. I would suspect the penalties would be similar to what they are today if you for example had an abortion in the third trimester (exept in cases of Mother's health). Probably fines and jail time and loss of medical license. The key in my opinion is the penalties for the person doing the abortion, ie doctor, more then the women who may even be a minor. Sort of like going after drug dealers more then the users.
Quoting SaraCate:

A couple of things:

Statisically, illegalizing abortion correlates with higher abortion rates.  Not just higher unsafe abortion rates - higher rates, period.

Second, for those who would choose that abortion be illegal, what should the penalty under the law be for women who engage in the crime?


Quoting muppet_mom:

Not sure I fully get what your argument is here. If it is because I wrote the shorthand of "vote against abortion" my answer is that I think people understand what I mean so no reason to write out the long version. If you are using the "Abortion is going to happen either way so might as well make it legal" my question to you is why criminalize anything? Rape, child abuse, sex trafficking, murder...... all haven't been stopped just because they are illegal. Should we just give up and say that even if we think something is wrong we should only outlaw it if it will 100% stop it. I guess you could argue that child abuse would be safer if it was legal because people would be more likely to bring their kid to the hospital if they weren't worried about being arrested.
Quoting jaxTheMomm:

I al



rhonda6878
by New Member on Apr. 5, 2013 at 10:23 AM
I couldn't have said it better myself. I find it ridiculous that so called Christians sit and judge or people make abortion political. Hey people if your so against abortion then don't sit and complain when these women who didnt want the child in the first place, end up on welfare, food stamps, or assitance of some kind because they did what you all said and didn't have the abortion or because it became illegal.
But of course these same people will belittle these women and tell them they don't work hard enough or care enough to better their situation. And gripe that now look what my tax dollars are paying for. Hypocrites


Quoting EireLass:

Good question. I always wonder - to those who are against abortion - how many of these women they've actually taken into their home to provide the correct living situations (roof over their head, food, medical care) at their own expense, and then adopted the baby when it was born.

Of course in CafeMom...when this question is asked...everyone claims to be a foster parent and adoptive parent. If that were true....how is it there are still so many unwanted children out there?


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loverbug75
by on Apr. 13, 2013 at 1:44 AM
All good points...:)


Quoting EireLass:

Good question. I always wonder - to those who are against abortion - how many of these women they've actually taken into their home to provide the correct living situations (roof over their head, food, medical care) at their own expense, and then adopted the baby when it was born.

Of course in CafeMom...when this question is asked...everyone claims to be a foster parent and adoptive parent. If that were true....how is it there are still so many unwanted children out there?


Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
loverbug75
by on Apr. 13, 2013 at 1:48 AM
Troll!!!


Quoting Suzy_Sunshine:

I am not interested in stopping abortion, I am interested in promoting it.

A culture that stigmatizes abortion but does not stigmatize parenting without adequate resources does harm to women and children.

It is my hope that more women who find themselves with a poorly timed pregnancy will chose to terminate. 


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loverbug75
by on Apr. 13, 2013 at 1:54 AM
As long as she wasn't blocking the girls way of reprimanding them then I really fall no fault in that. I absolutely believe that there are woman who would be over joyed to have their babies but like one girl said here.. They have no support. If that's what's being offered ten how can that be wrong.


Quoting MsDenuninani:

I don't have the patience to find it now, but a while ago there was a poster who responded to a question of How do you stop abortions? who was pro-life.


She was a woman who stood outside clinics (that performed abortions) and said that what she does is speak to women about other options and listen to their concerns.  She essentially said that a lot of them were scared, many of them came from neglectful homes, and many of them simply did not know what resources were out there for taking care of children in limited circumstances.  She said that she counseled them, that she helped them out, and that she assisted these women during their pregnancies and after them.


Frankly, I was impressed. She came off completely sincere (I should also add that she was not for outlawing abortion, as she believed generally in limited government, period.), and she didn't sound like she was interested in shaming women at all.  


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