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Or just pro choice?

How far you go in life depends on your being: tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of both the weak and strong.  Because someday in life you would have been one or all of these.  GeorgeWashingtonCarver


by on Apr. 2, 2013 at 11:56 AM
Replies (181-190):
jcribb16
by Silver Member on Apr. 5, 2013 at 8:51 PM

I was respectful, ma'am.  You were not open for discussion about your comments and the tidbit of information about the abortion terms when I was a kid.  Your views, in the way you kept responding to me, trumped anything I tried to discuss.  Then you blame me for saying anything about it.  

Another thing, unlike you, I did not make comments to you as you did to me, such as:

"just trying to explain my comments so that those such as yourself can better understand."

"but of course you have to come in and search for something to take offense over, because that's what you do. Meh."

"nagging and back-handed insults "

"I just gave back what you gave me"

"f it bothers you then you might want to think about treating others with more respect."

Just about everything you said to me was "NEGATIVE" either towards my personal character or my comments, in general, in response to yours.  Not one time did I say those types of things to you.  Those remarks of yours are indicative of immaturity and lack of respect of others of differing views, and it's absolutely ridiculous.  I was trying to discuss, point out how your comment/s came across, thanked you that you clarified it was your opinion, and gave info for my knowledge/background of the older "abortion" terms. You act as if I was lying about the terms, which I am not.  

We live in different parts of the country, too, so did you even stop to consider what I heard in my area may not have been what was "coined" in your area?   There are explanations for these things.  And I'm not insulting or disrespecting you by giving this 'possibility' of why we see differently the background of those terms - just trying to figure out the 'why' of it.  

So, think what you want, be the oh-so right one if that's what makes you happy, thanks for your views and opinions, and for "allowing" me to share mine even though you smacked them down.  That's okay.  I've learned this before and should have known better to attempt to discuss this issue with you.  



Quoting Friday:


Quoting jcribb16:

I don't know what I even try to discuss things with you like this.  Have a nice weekend.

Quoting Friday:


Quoting jcribb16:

Wow, touchy.   You may not have said "all" but you said "coined by pro-lifers,..." - you did not specifically say "all" nor did you say "some."  Up for interpretation.

The whole main point of my response was to tell you that when I was a KID, the terms commonly used were "pro-abortion" and "anti-abortion."  It wasn't until I was married and started having children, that the terms changed. Those terms were the norm of that time in society and were updated later. You say you never heard of it until on CM - that's fine.  I was trying to give you a little background that I know about it.  Also, I'm several years older than you, which may would account for your not hearing of those older terms.

Quoting Friday:


Quoting jcribb16:

I'm glad you clarified that it is your opinion about that.  

When I was a kid, the only term/s used back then were "pro-abortion" and "anti-abortion."  All pro-lifers don't try to be "self-righteous" and "moral superiority."  All pro-choicers don't either.  Some on both sides can go overboard with their stance, but for the most part, most just really care passionately for what they feel and believe on the matter of abortion.

As far as insulting those who disagree, that happens on both sides to both sides, by some who cannot tolerate others disagreeing, as if others aren't "allowed" to have their own views on the matter, unless it agrees with the other side.  That's beyond immature and ridiculous.

Quoting Friday:

Absolutely Pro-Choice.

IMO, the term 'pro-abortion' was simply coined by self righteous pro-lifers to claim their alleged moral superiority and insult those who disagree.


I never said all of anything think, say or do anything.

I never heard pro-abortion till I came to CM and every person I've seen use that term here is self righteous, does act like they are morally superior and is quite obviously using it to be inflammatory and insulting. Not all pro-lifers use the term and I never said they did, or anything close to that. I know many pro-lifers who are reasonable and can be respectful to those of various views.

I also never said that one side or the other holds the monopoly on insulting those who disagree. I was speaking very specifically about pro-lifers who throw out the term pro-abortion or pro-abort and cannot be respectful of others opinions. I find it quite rude to ignore the label another has chosen for themselves and arbitrarily assign one intended to insult.


No, not touchy just trying to explain my comments so that those such as yourself can better understand.

Are you saying it wasn't pro-lifers who coined that phrase? I really doubt it was pro-choicers.

Exactly, I didn't say all and I did say those who use the phrase are self righteous, etc. I never said all pro-lifers but of course you have to come in and search for something to take offense over, because that's what you do. Meh.

Commonly used by who? I was almost 40 when I joined CM and hung out on pretty Liberal sites prior, never saw pro-abort. Since pro-choice has been used since the 60's, I have to wonder how old you are and who you were hanging out with that you never heard it till after you got married. I was a kid in the 70's and it was pro-choice, not pro-abortion.


Maybe if you tried to actually discuss things instead of nagging and back-handed insults we'd get farther. I just gave back what you gave me, if it bothers you then you might want to think about treating others with more respect.

Have an awesome weekend.


Friday
by HRH of MJ on Apr. 5, 2013 at 9:00 PM


Quoting jcribb16:

I was respectful, ma'am.  You were not open for discussion about your comments and the tidbit of information about the abortion terms when I was a kid.  Your views, in the way you kept responding to me, trumped anything I tried to discuss.  Then you blame me for saying anything about it.  

Another thing, unlike you, I did not make comments to you as you did to me, such as:

"just trying to explain my comments so that those such as yourself can better understand."

"but of course you have to come in and search for something to take offense over, because that's what you do. Meh."

"nagging and back-handed insults "

"I just gave back what you gave me"

"f it bothers you then you might want to think about treating others with more respect."

Just about everything you said to me was "NEGATIVE" either towards my personal character or my comments, in general, in response to yours.  Not one time did I say those types of things to you.  Those remarks of yours are indicative of immaturity and lack of respect of others of differing views, and it's absolutely ridiculous.  I was trying to discuss, point out how your comment/s came across, thanked you that you clarified it was your opinion, and gave info for my knowledge/background of the older "abortion" terms. You act as if I was lying about the terms, which I am not.  

We live in different parts of the country, too, so did you even stop to consider what I heard in my area may not have been what was "coined" in your area?   There are explanations for these things.  And I'm not insulting or disrespecting you by giving this 'possibility' of why we see differently the background of those terms - just trying to figure out the 'why' of it.  

So, think what you want, be the oh-so right one if that's what makes you happy, thanks for your views and opinions, and for "allowing" me to share mine even though you smacked them down.  That's okay.  I've learned this before and should have known better to attempt to discuss this issue with you.  



Quoting Friday:


Quoting jcribb16:

I don't know what I even try to discuss things with you like this.  Have a nice weekend.

Quoting Friday:


Quoting jcribb16:

Wow, touchy.   You may not have said "all" but you said "coined by pro-lifers,..." - you did not specifically say "all" nor did you say "some."  Up for interpretation.

The whole main point of my response was to tell you that when I was a KID, the terms commonly used were "pro-abortion" and "anti-abortion."  It wasn't until I was married and started having children, that the terms changed. Those terms were the norm of that time in society and were updated later. You say you never heard of it until on CM - that's fine.  I was trying to give you a little background that I know about it.  Also, I'm several years older than you, which may would account for your not hearing of those older terms.

Quoting Friday:


Quoting jcribb16:

I'm glad you clarified that it is your opinion about that.  

When I was a kid, the only term/s used back then were "pro-abortion" and "anti-abortion."  All pro-lifers don't try to be "self-righteous" and "moral superiority."  All pro-choicers don't either.  Some on both sides can go overboard with their stance, but for the most part, most just really care passionately for what they feel and believe on the matter of abortion.

As far as insulting those who disagree, that happens on both sides to both sides, by some who cannot tolerate others disagreeing, as if others aren't "allowed" to have their own views on the matter, unless it agrees with the other side.  That's beyond immature and ridiculous.

Quoting Friday:

Absolutely Pro-Choice.

IMO, the term 'pro-abortion' was simply coined by self righteous pro-lifers to claim their alleged moral superiority and insult those who disagree.


I never said all of anything think, say or do anything.

I never heard pro-abortion till I came to CM and every person I've seen use that term here is self righteous, does act like they are morally superior and is quite obviously using it to be inflammatory and insulting. Not all pro-lifers use the term and I never said they did, or anything close to that. I know many pro-lifers who are reasonable and can be respectful to those of various views.

I also never said that one side or the other holds the monopoly on insulting those who disagree. I was speaking very specifically about pro-lifers who throw out the term pro-abortion or pro-abort and cannot be respectful of others opinions. I find it quite rude to ignore the label another has chosen for themselves and arbitrarily assign one intended to insult.


No, not touchy just trying to explain my comments so that those such as yourself can better understand.

Are you saying it wasn't pro-lifers who coined that phrase? I really doubt it was pro-choicers.

Exactly, I didn't say all and I did say those who use the phrase are self righteous, etc. I never said all pro-lifers but of course you have to come in and search for something to take offense over, because that's what you do. Meh.

Commonly used by who? I was almost 40 when I joined CM and hung out on pretty Liberal sites prior, never saw pro-abort. Since pro-choice has been used since the 60's, I have to wonder how old you are and who you were hanging out with that you never heard it till after you got married. I was a kid in the 70's and it was pro-choice, not pro-abortion.


Maybe if you tried to actually discuss things instead of nagging and back-handed insults we'd get farther. I just gave back what you gave me, if it bothers you then you might want to think about treating others with more respect.

Have an awesome weekend.


You were condescending and talking down to me, like you always do. You assumed something I never said and accused me of being touchy for trying to explain myself. You went into lecture mode based on your assumptions and need to find offense where there is none.

I swear you lurk around looking for things to take offense over to bolster your perceived Christian/Conservative persecution.

You didn't try to discuss my comment just accuse me of meaning all, when I never said that, then deflecting and patronizing me with the both sides get nasty, when I've agreed with you repeatedly on that. You are neither my teacher, mother or even a friend so if you'd like to engage in a discussion you can leave the mommy/teacher tude behind or you will get tude right back.

I didn't swear or call names...what is up with the Cons who get all whiny when you treat them the way they treat you? I could have just ignored you, like you ignored my question to you last nite but I was trying to be nice. For all the good that does with some people.

 


Thank God......it's Friday!!!

denise3680
by Gold Member on Apr. 5, 2013 at 9:04 PM

 


Quoting jcribb16:

There are also extenuating circumstances for some women and/or the babies - that should be taken into consideration for the well-being and safety of either, who may be in danger.  Either way, there is care and concern for both the woman and the baby.  

It is becoming painfully obvious, however, that there is way less regard for an unborn baby's chance of following through with the life given it while forming in the womb, especially when it's totally selfish reasons on the mother's end for the abortion of that baby.

Quoting denise3680:

 

 

Quoting jcribb16:

That is incorrect.

Quoting Suzy_Sunshine:

That is simply untrue. People who identify as 'pro life' are concerned exclusively with fetal life, they couldn't care less about actual humans!

Quoting LoveMyBoyK:

No, it does not. Unless you describe yourself as being anti choice for being against legalizing infanticide or murder. It is a way for some pro choicers to misrepresent the views of those who do not agree that fetal life is less worth protection than, say, newborn life.


Quoting Suzy_Sunshine:

Anti Choice accurately describes people who identify as 'pro life' (which does not describe their position accurately) but Pro Abortion only describes a relatively small subset of Pro Choice Americans.

Quoting LoveMyBoyK:

Pro abortion and anti choice are both inflammatory terms used by the opposing sides to deliberately misconstrue and misrepresent views they do not share.





If a person says they do not beleive a woman should have an abortion due to life starts at conception and then makes laws to prohibit that choice, they are anti-choice. 

 


You see this is where I differ, who are any of us to say that the mother is doing this for purely selfish reasons?  Just because you do not agree with her thoughts does not make them any less important to her.  A child changes ones life, whetherplanned or not, it should always be her choice to have a baby or not, period.  If there are going to be circumstances that would allow for abortion, who is to decide that? What would qualify as extenuating circumstances?  IF the choice is there then decisions could be made by the persons involved not the government or outside people.

 

jcribb16
by Silver Member on Apr. 5, 2013 at 9:05 PM

Whatever, Friday.  You are so exaggerating and off base that it's actually humorous.  I'll leave you to your whining since that's what you enjoy doing with me.  I'll even let you have the last word, if you want it!  The whining just rolls right off and I have better things to do with my family, and with other groups in here, where posters are actually discussing the topic with each other.  Ta-ta and buh-bye...

Quoting Friday:


Quoting jcribb16:

I was respectful, ma'am.  You were not open for discussion about your comments and the tidbit of information about the abortion terms when I was a kid.  Your views, in the way you kept responding to me, trumped anything I tried to discuss.  Then you blame me for saying anything about it.  

Another thing, unlike you, I did not make comments to you as you did to me, such as:

"just trying to explain my comments so that those such as yourself can better understand."

"but of course you have to come in and search for something to take offense over, because that's what you do. Meh."

"nagging and back-handed insults "

"I just gave back what you gave me"

"f it bothers you then you might want to think about treating others with more respect."

Just about everything you said to me was "NEGATIVE" either towards my personal character or my comments, in general, in response to yours.  Not one time did I say those types of things to you.  Those remarks of yours are indicative of immaturity and lack of respect of others of differing views, and it's absolutely ridiculous.  I was trying to discuss, point out how your comment/s came across, thanked you that you clarified it was your opinion, and gave info for my knowledge/background of the older "abortion" terms. You act as if I was lying about the terms, which I am not.  

We live in different parts of the country, too, so did you even stop to consider what I heard in my area may not have been what was "coined" in your area?   There are explanations for these things.  And I'm not insulting or disrespecting you by giving this 'possibility' of why we see differently the background of those terms - just trying to figure out the 'why' of it.  

So, think what you want, be the oh-so right one if that's what makes you happy, thanks for your views and opinions, and for "allowing" me to share mine even though you smacked them down.  That's okay.  I've learned this before and should have known better to attempt to discuss this issue with you.  



Quoting Friday:


Quoting jcribb16:

I don't know what I even try to discuss things with you like this.  Have a nice weekend.

Quoting Friday:


Quoting jcribb16:

Wow, touchy.   You may not have said "all" but you said "coined by pro-lifers,..." - you did not specifically say "all" nor did you say "some."  Up for interpretation.

The whole main point of my response was to tell you that when I was a KID, the terms commonly used were "pro-abortion" and "anti-abortion."  It wasn't until I was married and started having children, that the terms changed. Those terms were the norm of that time in society and were updated later. You say you never heard of it until on CM - that's fine.  I was trying to give you a little background that I know about it.  Also, I'm several years older than you, which may would account for your not hearing of those older terms.

Quoting Friday:


Quoting jcribb16:

I'm glad you clarified that it is your opinion about that.  

When I was a kid, the only term/s used back then were "pro-abortion" and "anti-abortion."  All pro-lifers don't try to be "self-righteous" and "moral superiority."  All pro-choicers don't either.  Some on both sides can go overboard with their stance, but for the most part, most just really care passionately for what they feel and believe on the matter of abortion.

As far as insulting those who disagree, that happens on both sides to both sides, by some who cannot tolerate others disagreeing, as if others aren't "allowed" to have their own views on the matter, unless it agrees with the other side.  That's beyond immature and ridiculous.

Quoting Friday:

Absolutely Pro-Choice.

IMO, the term 'pro-abortion' was simply coined by self righteous pro-lifers to claim their alleged moral superiority and insult those who disagree.


I never said all of anything think, say or do anything.

I never heard pro-abortion till I came to CM and every person I've seen use that term here is self righteous, does act like they are morally superior and is quite obviously using it to be inflammatory and insulting. Not all pro-lifers use the term and I never said they did, or anything close to that. I know many pro-lifers who are reasonable and can be respectful to those of various views.

I also never said that one side or the other holds the monopoly on insulting those who disagree. I was speaking very specifically about pro-lifers who throw out the term pro-abortion or pro-abort and cannot be respectful of others opinions. I find it quite rude to ignore the label another has chosen for themselves and arbitrarily assign one intended to insult.


No, not touchy just trying to explain my comments so that those such as yourself can better understand.

Are you saying it wasn't pro-lifers who coined that phrase? I really doubt it was pro-choicers.

Exactly, I didn't say all and I did say those who use the phrase are self righteous, etc. I never said all pro-lifers but of course you have to come in and search for something to take offense over, because that's what you do. Meh.

Commonly used by who? I was almost 40 when I joined CM and hung out on pretty Liberal sites prior, never saw pro-abort. Since pro-choice has been used since the 60's, I have to wonder how old you are and who you were hanging out with that you never heard it till after you got married. I was a kid in the 70's and it was pro-choice, not pro-abortion.


Maybe if you tried to actually discuss things instead of nagging and back-handed insults we'd get farther. I just gave back what you gave me, if it bothers you then you might want to think about treating others with more respect.

Have an awesome weekend.


You were condescending and talking down to me, like you always do. You assumed something I never said and accused me of being touchy for trying to explain myself. You went into lecture mode based on your assumptions and need to find offense where there is none.

I swear you lurk around looking for things to take offense over to bolster your perceived Christian/Conservative persecution.

You didn't try to discuss my comment just accuse me of meaning all, when I never said that, then deflecting and patronizing me with the both sides get nasty, when I've agreed with you repeatedly on that. You are neither my teacher, mother or even a friend so if you'd like to engage in a discussion you can leave the mommy/teacher tude behind or you will get tude right back.

I didn't swear or call names...what is up with the Cons who get all whiny when you treat them the way they treat you? I could have just ignored you, like you ignored my question to you last nite but I was trying to be nice. For all the good that does with some people.


Friday
by HRH of MJ on Apr. 5, 2013 at 9:07 PM


Quoting jcribb16:

Whatever, Friday.  You are so exaggerating and off base that it's actually humorous.  I'll leave you to your whining since that's what you enjoy doing with me.  I'll even let you have the last word, if you want it!  The whining just rolls right off and I have better things to do with my family, and with other groups in here, where posters are actually discussing the topic with each other.  Ta-ta and buh-bye...



Of course, it's cool for you to talk down to me cuz I'm a dirty Lib. I suppose you would know whining since that and nagging are your forte'.

 


Thank God......it's Friday!!!

denise3680
by Gold Member on Apr. 5, 2013 at 9:08 PM

 


Quoting LoveMyBoyK:

No more than you are anti choice for not believing a person should legally be allowed to CHOOSE to kill a, say, five year old.

Quoting denise3680:

 


 


Quoting jcribb16:


That is incorrect.


Quoting Suzy_Sunshine:


That is simply untrue. People who identify as 'pro life' are concerned exclusively with fetal life, they couldn't care less about actual humans!


Quoting LoveMyBoyK:

No, it does not. Unless you describe yourself as being anti choice for being against legalizing infanticide or murder. It is a way for some pro choicers to misrepresent the views of those who do not agree that fetal life is less worth protection than, say, newborn life.



Quoting Suzy_Sunshine:


Anti Choice accurately describes people who identify as 'pro life' (which does not describe their position accurately) but Pro Abortion only describes a relatively small subset of Pro Choice Americans.


Quoting LoveMyBoyK:

Pro abortion and anti choice are both inflammatory terms used by the opposing sides to deliberately misconstrue and misrepresent views they do not share.








If a person says they do not beleive a woman should have an abortion due to life starts at conception and then makes laws to prohibit that choice, they are anti-choice. 


 




 I really wish your statement made any kind of sense or even slightly had anything to do with the subject at hand:/  The 5 year old is alive, able to breath sustain life on his or her own, otherwise no need to attach itself to another human to sustain its life.  That would be murder if some idiot kills a living breathing child of 5.  Why do you think one goes with the other?

acrogodess
by Silver Member on Apr. 5, 2013 at 9:10 PM

No, I am not pro-abortion. I am pro-choice. While I do believe that late term abortions should not be allowed, I believe that in the case of rape, incest, genetic disorders, or a mother's life is at risk, the mother should have the right to choose to terminate. 

jcribb16
by Silver Member on Apr. 5, 2013 at 9:22 PM

If a mom or woman is making a choice to not have a baby right now, then take precautions offered before the "oops" happens and then abortion is the answer.  Abortion should not be used as birth control.  That really concerns me - that is definitely a selfish reason.  

Some don't accept that there are consequences in today's society, either, which is alarming, when it comes to getting pregnant - and it comes at the "wrong" time, will "mess" up their plans/lives, etc.  Kill the "wrong" time problem; kill the "mess" up intruder, get rid of this precious little baby that will need love, changing of diapers, food, baths, getting up all during the nights, and means there will have to be adjustments made to accomodate a baby's needs/growing up, instead of accepting the responsibility of actions, and understanding that there is a reason that baby is coming and we are not a god who can dictate which baby can live and which baby should be killed.

And I honestly feel that many who use abortion for selfish reasons, as listed above, and mainly as birth control, forget that they were once precious little babies in their mom's wombs, and were carried to term and included in their families lives.  They are living their lives instead of being aborted/rid of/murdered/unwanted, etc., yet aborting/ridding of/murdering/not wanting their own baby that dares to conceive at the "wrong" time, or may not be the "right sex," etc.  That's like a death sentence for some babies.

We may not agree on this, but I'm thankful for the opportunity to discuss this with you.  I am interested in hearing your views, with the whys and whats. It's obvious we are both passionate about our personal views, and there is nothing wrong with that.  Thank you!  :)

Quoting denise3680:



Quoting jcribb16:

There are also extenuating circumstances for some women and/or the babies - that should be taken into consideration for the well-being and safety of either, who may be in danger.  Either way, there is care and concern for both the woman and the baby.  

It is becoming painfully obvious, however, that there is way less regard for an unborn baby's chance of following through with the life given it while forming in the womb, especially when it's totally selfish reasons on the mother's end for the abortion of that baby.

Quoting denise3680:



Quoting jcribb16:

That is incorrect.

Quoting Suzy_Sunshine:

That is simply untrue. People who identify as 'pro life' are concerned exclusively with fetal life, they couldn't care less about actual humans!

Quoting LoveMyBoyK:

No, it does not. Unless you describe yourself as being anti choice for being against legalizing infanticide or murder. It is a way for some pro choicers to misrepresent the views of those who do not agree that fetal life is less worth protection than, say, newborn life.


Quoting Suzy_Sunshine:

Anti Choice accurately describes people who identify as 'pro life' (which does not describe their position accurately) but Pro Abortion only describes a relatively small subset of Pro Choice Americans.

Quoting LoveMyBoyK:

Pro abortion and anti choice are both inflammatory terms used by the opposing sides to deliberately misconstrue and misrepresent views they do not share.





If a person says they do not beleive a woman should have an abortion due to life starts at conception and then makes laws to prohibit that choice, they are anti-choice. 



You see this is where I differ, who are any of us to say that the mother is doing this for purely selfish reasons?  Just because you do not agree with her thoughts does not make them any less important to her.  A child changes ones life, whetherplanned or not, it should always be her choice to have a baby or not, period.  If there are going to be circumstances that would allow for abortion, who is to decide that? What would qualify as extenuating circumstances?  IF the choice is there then decisions could be made by the persons involved not the government or outside people.



denise3680
by Gold Member on Apr. 5, 2013 at 9:34 PM

 


Quoting jcribb16:

If a mom or woman is making a choice to not have a baby right now, then take precautions offered before the "oops" happens and then abortion is the answer.  Abortion should not be used as birth control.  That really concerns me - that is definitely a selfish reason.  

Some don't accept that there are consequences in today's society, either, which is alarming, when it comes to getting pregnant - and it comes at the "wrong" time, will "mess" up their plans/lives, etc.  Kill the "wrong" time problem; kill the "mess" up intruder, get rid of this precious little baby that will need love, changing of diapers, food, baths, getting up all during the nights, and means there will have to be adjustments made to accomodate a baby's needs/growing up, instead of accepting the responsibility of actions, and understanding that there is a reason that baby is coming and we are not a god who can dictate which baby can live and which baby should be killed.

And I honestly feel that many who use abortion for selfish reasons, as listed above, and mainly as birth control, forget that they were once precious little babies in their mom's wombs, and were carried to term and included in their families lives.  They are living their lives instead of being aborted/rid of/murdered/unwanted, etc., yet aborting/ridding of/murdering/not wanting their own baby that dares to conceive at the "wrong" time, or may not be the "right sex," etc.  That's like a death sentence for some babies.

We may not agree on this, but I'm thankful for the opportunity to discuss this with you.  I am interested in hearing your views, with the whys and whats. It's obvious we are both passionate about our personal views, and there is nothing wrong with that.  Thank you!  :)

Quoting denise3680:

 

 

Quoting jcribb16:

There are also extenuating circumstances for some women and/or the babies - that should be taken into consideration for the well-being and safety of either, who may be in danger.  Either way, there is care and concern for both the woman and the baby.  

It is becoming painfully obvious, however, that there is way less regard for an unborn baby's chance of following through with the life given it while forming in the womb, especially when it's totally selfish reasons on the mother's end for the abortion of that baby.

Quoting denise3680:

 

 

Quoting jcribb16:

That is incorrect.

Quoting Suzy_Sunshine:

That is simply untrue. People who identify as 'pro life' are concerned exclusively with fetal life, they couldn't care less about actual humans!

Quoting LoveMyBoyK:

No, it does not. Unless you describe yourself as being anti choice for being against legalizing infanticide or murder. It is a way for some pro choicers to misrepresent the views of those who do not agree that fetal life is less worth protection than, say, newborn life.


Quoting Suzy_Sunshine:

Anti Choice accurately describes people who identify as 'pro life' (which does not describe their position accurately) but Pro Abortion only describes a relatively small subset of Pro Choice Americans.

Quoting LoveMyBoyK:

Pro abortion and anti choice are both inflammatory terms used by the opposing sides to deliberately misconstrue and misrepresent views they do not share.





If a person says they do not beleive a woman should have an abortion due to life starts at conception and then makes laws to prohibit that choice, they are anti-choice. 

 


You see this is where I differ, who are any of us to say that the mother is doing this for purely selfish reasons?  Just because you do not agree with her thoughts does not make them any less important to her.  A child changes ones life, whetherplanned or not, it should always be her choice to have a baby or not, period.  If there are going to be circumstances that would allow for abortion, who is to decide that? What would qualify as extenuating circumstances?  IF the choice is there then decisions could be made by the persons involved not the government or outside people.

 



 I truly find the "take the precautions" argument as one that cannot be full proof.  I personally know people who have taken every precaution not to get pregnant and ended up preggo anyways:/  Nothing is full proof unless you abstain, but I do not know of many married couples that abstain:)  Still who am I or anyone to tell this woman she is not allowed to make choices with her own body?  I completely understand your views on this, I just happen to disagree with the right to choice.  I agree abortion should never be used as a means of birth control, it is selfish and potentially hazardous to the body and health of the woman who does it, still I think it is her decision and no one else.  What concerns me is not so much a woman's right to choose, but that too many young people think that sex has no consequences.  I feel if we educate, give kids the knowledge to know about sex, what happens, what could happen, choices instead of feeling trapped or carefree, that would lower the need for anyone to have abortions.  In the end, educate but still give people the right to choose what is best for them instead of having the government intervene in things they have no business interfering with.

jcribb16
by Silver Member on Apr. 5, 2013 at 9:44 PM


Quoting denise3680:



Quoting jcribb16:

If a mom or woman is making a choice to not have a baby right now, then take precautions offered before the "oops" happens and then abortion is the answer.  Abortion should not be used as birth control.  That really concerns me - that is definitely a selfish reason.  

Some don't accept that there are consequences in today's society, either, which is alarming, when it comes to getting pregnant - and it comes at the "wrong" time, will "mess" up their plans/lives, etc.  Kill the "wrong" time problem; kill the "mess" up intruder, get rid of this precious little baby that will need love, changing of diapers, food, baths, getting up all during the nights, and means there will have to be adjustments made to accomodate a baby's needs/growing up, instead of accepting the responsibility of actions, and understanding that there is a reason that baby is coming and we are not a god who can dictate which baby can live and which baby should be killed.

And I honestly feel that many who use abortion for selfish reasons, as listed above, and mainly as birth control, forget that they were once precious little babies in their mom's wombs, and were carried to term and included in their families lives.  They are living their lives instead of being aborted/rid of/murdered/unwanted, etc., yet aborting/ridding of/murdering/not wanting their own baby that dares to conceive at the "wrong" time, or may not be the "right sex," etc.  That's like a death sentence for some babies.

We may not agree on this, but I'm thankful for the opportunity to discuss this with you.  I am interested in hearing your views, with the whys and whats. It's obvious we are both passionate about our personal views, and there is nothing wrong with that.  Thank you!  :)

Quoting denise3680:



Quoting jcribb16:

There are also extenuating circumstances for some women and/or the babies - that should be taken into consideration for the well-being and safety of either, who may be in danger.  Either way, there is care and concern for both the woman and the baby.  

It is becoming painfully obvious, however, that there is way less regard for an unborn baby's chance of following through with the life given it while forming in the womb, especially when it's totally selfish reasons on the mother's end for the abortion of that baby.

Quoting denise3680:



Quoting jcribb16:

That is incorrect.

Quoting Suzy_Sunshine:

That is simply untrue. People who identify as 'pro life' are concerned exclusively with fetal life, they couldn't care less about actual humans!

Quoting LoveMyBoyK:

No, it does not. Unless you describe yourself as being anti choice for being against legalizing infanticide or murder. It is a way for some pro choicers to misrepresent the views of those who do not agree that fetal life is less worth protection than, say, newborn life.


Quoting Suzy_Sunshine:

Anti Choice accurately describes people who identify as 'pro life' (which does not describe their position accurately) but Pro Abortion only describes a relatively small subset of Pro Choice Americans.

Quoting LoveMyBoyK:

Pro abortion and anti choice are both inflammatory terms used by the opposing sides to deliberately misconstrue and misrepresent views they do not share.





If a person says they do not beleive a woman should have an abortion due to life starts at conception and then makes laws to prohibit that choice, they are anti-choice. 



You see this is where I differ, who are any of us to say that the mother is doing this for purely selfish reasons?  Just because you do not agree with her thoughts does not make them any less important to her.  A child changes ones life, whetherplanned or not, it should always be her choice to have a baby or not, period.  If there are going to be circumstances that would allow for abortion, who is to decide that? What would qualify as extenuating circumstances?  IF the choice is there then decisions could be made by the persons involved not the government or outside people.




 I truly find the "take the precautions" argument as one that cannot be full proof.  I personally know people who have taken every precaution not to get pregnant and ended up preggo anyways:/  Nothing is full proof unless you abstain, but I do not know of many married couples that abstain:)  Still who am I or anyone to tell this woman she is not allowed to make choices with her own body?  I completely understand your views on this, I just happen to disagree with the right to choice.  I agree abortion should never be used as a means of birth control, it is selfish and potentially hazardous to the body and health of the woman who does it, still I think it is her decision and no one else.  What concerns me is not so much a woman's right to choose, but that too many young people think that sex has no consequences.  I feel if we educate, give kids the knowledge to know about sex, what happens, what could happen, choices instead of feeling trapped or carefree, that would lower the need for anyone to have abortions.  In the end, educate but still give people the right to choose what is best for them instead of having the government intervene in things they have no business interfering with.

We got pregnant with our 3rd, even though on bc.  It never even crossed my mind to even consider abortion.  We accepted the fact that whatever happened or why it happened, that we had another baby coming.  Whether we were prepared or ready, didn't matter, because the life of the child was more important than anything else.

We do agree on abortion not being used as a means of birth control, and for the reasons you listed.  I also agree with you regarding the young people and educating them with that knowledge you spoke of.  And I absolutely agree that the government should not intervene in things they have no business in, within our families/decisions.

You made some excellent points.

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