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Or just pro choice?

How far you go in life depends on your being: tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of both the weak and strong.  Because someday in life you would have been one or all of these.  GeorgeWashingtonCarver


by on Apr. 2, 2013 at 11:56 AM
Replies (191-200):
Friday
by HRH of MJ on Apr. 5, 2013 at 9:53 PM


Quoting jcribb16:

If a mom or woman is making a choice to not have a baby right now, then take precautions offered before the "oops" happens and then abortion is the answer.  Abortion should not be used as birth control.  That really concerns me - that is definitely a selfish reason.  

Some don't accept that there are consequences in today's society, either, which is alarming, when it comes to getting pregnant - and it comes at the "wrong" time, will "mess" up their plans/lives, etc.  Kill the "wrong" time problem; kill the "mess" up intruder, get rid of this precious little baby that will need love, changing of diapers, food, baths, getting up all during the nights, and means there will have to be adjustments made to accomodate a baby's needs/growing up, instead of accepting the responsibility of actions, and understanding that there is a reason that baby is coming and we are not a god who can dictate which baby can live and which baby should be killed.

And I honestly feel that many who use abortion for selfish reasons, as listed above, and mainly as birth control, forget that they were once precious little babies in their mom's wombs, and were carried to term and included in their families lives.  They are living their lives instead of being aborted/rid of/murdered/unwanted, etc., yet aborting/ridding of/murdering/not wanting their own baby that dares to conceive at the "wrong" time, or may not be the "right sex," etc.  That's like a death sentence for some babies.

We may not agree on this, but I'm thankful for the opportunity to discuss this with you.  I am interested in hearing your views, with the whys and whats. It's obvious we are both passionate about our personal views, and there is nothing wrong with that.  Thank you!  :)

Quoting denise3680:



Quoting jcribb16:

There are also extenuating circumstances for some women and/or the babies - that should be taken into consideration for the well-being and safety of either, who may be in danger.  Either way, there is care and concern for both the woman and the baby.  

It is becoming painfully obvious, however, that there is way less regard for an unborn baby's chance of following through with the life given it while forming in the womb, especially when it's totally selfish reasons on the mother's end for the abortion of that baby.

Quoting denise3680:



Quoting jcribb16:

That is incorrect.

Quoting Suzy_Sunshine:

That is simply untrue. People who identify as 'pro life' are concerned exclusively with fetal life, they couldn't care less about actual humans!

Quoting LoveMyBoyK:

No, it does not. Unless you describe yourself as being anti choice for being against legalizing infanticide or murder. It is a way for some pro choicers to misrepresent the views of those who do not agree that fetal life is less worth protection than, say, newborn life.


Quoting Suzy_Sunshine:

Anti Choice accurately describes people who identify as 'pro life' (which does not describe their position accurately) but Pro Abortion only describes a relatively small subset of Pro Choice Americans.

Quoting LoveMyBoyK:

Pro abortion and anti choice are both inflammatory terms used by the opposing sides to deliberately misconstrue and misrepresent views they do not share.





If a person says they do not beleive a woman should have an abortion due to life starts at conception and then makes laws to prohibit that choice, they are anti-choice. 



You see this is where I differ, who are any of us to say that the mother is doing this for purely selfish reasons?  Just because you do not agree with her thoughts does not make them any less important to her.  A child changes ones life, whetherplanned or not, it should always be her choice to have a baby or not, period.  If there are going to be circumstances that would allow for abortion, who is to decide that? What would qualify as extenuating circumstances?  IF the choice is there then decisions could be made by the persons involved not the government or outside people.



You are aware that the reason stated for the majority of unplanned pregnancies is birth control failure? Most women who abort were using b/c. I knew a woman who was on the pill and using condoms but still got pregnant, among many, many other b/c babies. My dd included.

 


Thank God......it's Friday!!!

teri4lance
by Silver Member on Apr. 5, 2013 at 9:59 PM
1 mom liked this

I'm prochoice in the general. At this point in my life I wouldn't choose it, but I'm only one woman. I think it is right for some people. I think there are cases when it's the wrong choice. But I can think whatever I want.  I don't get to choose for anyone else.

What's that make me? 

Friday
by HRH of MJ on Apr. 5, 2013 at 10:16 PM


Quoting jcribb16:

THIS IS TO CLARIFY THAT I HAVE NOT, DID NOT, AND WILL NOCALL FRIDAY A 'DIRTY LIB' AND THAT WHATEVER POLITICAL SIDE WE ARE BOTH ON DOES NOT MATTER TO ME AND DOES NOT MEAN I DON'T LIKE HER OR NOT SEE HER AS A PERSON OF VALUE, WORTH, AND LIFE.   THANK YOU.

Guilty conscience?

No, you didn't call me anything but you talk down to me like I'm scum so, same difference.

Tell you what. I apologize. Someone right before you commented on my post and attacked me when she clearly misunderstood. I shouldn't have taken it out on you and I am sorry. We are all sick here so my tude isn't at it's best. I will sincerely work to be more respectful.

I believe that most pro-lifers who use the term pro-abort/ion are being rude and their intention is to insult both actions only serve to boost their opinion of themselves, hence self righteous. Every single pro-lifer I have seen use that term on CM affirms that belief with many of the other things they say in abortion debates.

 


Thank God......it's Friday!!!

LoveMyBoyK
by Ruby Member on Apr. 5, 2013 at 10:21 PM
Wow, are you really so egotistical that you believe that YOUR view of the unborn MUST BE EVERYONE'S or are you just too ignorant to comprehend that prolifers sincerely do not see any difference in life between a fetus and a five year old, thus making them no more ANTI CHOICE in their views than you are for not wanting to legally allow killing a Five Year old to Be a CHOICE?


Quoting denise3680:

 




Quoting LoveMyBoyK:

No more than you are anti choice for not believing a person should legally be allowed to CHOOSE to kill a, say, five year old.


Quoting denise3680:


 



 



Quoting jcribb16:



That is incorrect.



Quoting Suzy_Sunshine:



That is simply untrue. People who identify as 'pro life' are concerned exclusively with fetal life, they couldn't care less about actual humans!



Quoting LoveMyBoyK:

No, it does not. Unless you describe yourself as being anti choice for being against legalizing infanticide or murder. It is a way for some pro choicers to misrepresent the views of those who do not agree that fetal life is less worth protection than, say, newborn life.




Quoting Suzy_Sunshine:



Anti Choice accurately describes people who identify as 'pro life' (which does not describe their position accurately) but Pro Abortion only describes a relatively small subset of Pro Choice Americans.



Quoting LoveMyBoyK:

Pro abortion and anti choice are both inflammatory terms used by the opposing sides to deliberately misconstrue and misrepresent views they do not share.












If a person says they do not beleive a woman should have an abortion due to life starts at conception and then makes laws to prohibit that choice, they are anti-choice. 



 






 I really wish your statement made any kind of sense or even slightly had anything to do with the subject at hand:/  The 5 year old is alive, able to breath sustain life on his or her own, otherwise no need to attach itself to another human to sustain its life.  That would be murder if some idiot kills a living breathing child of 5.  Why do you think one goes with the other?


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Stephanie329
by Platinum Member on Apr. 5, 2013 at 10:33 PM
1 mom liked this

It's great that you got to chooce how to proceed with your addition to the family.

I'd like to know who all these women are that use abortion as BC - besides Sherry Shepherd.

Quoting jcribb16:


We got pregnant with our 3rd, even though on bc.  It never even crossed my mind to even consider abortion.  We accepted the fact that whatever happened or why it happened, that we had another baby coming.  Whether we were prepared or ready, didn't matter, because the life of the child was more important than anything else.

We do agree on abortion not being used as a means of birth control, and for the reasons you listed.  I also agree with you regarding the young people and educating them with that knowledge you spoke of.  And I absolutely agree that the government should not intervene in things they have no business in, within our families/decisions.

You made some excellent points.


desertlvn
by Silver Member on Apr. 5, 2013 at 11:09 PM

I do not feel a fetus is a human being yet.... it has the potential, but it just isn't yet. I therefore feel no repulsion in thinking about abortion. In that I am not anti-abortion. 

I wholeheartedly support a woman in choosing birth, adoption, or abortion. Every woman is leading a very different life and every woman knows what is best for herself. In that, I am VERY pro-choice. 

In certain situations I am in fact pro-abortion: 10 yr old gets pregnant, a father impregnating his daughter, a woman who would otherwise leave a baby in a dumpster, etc.

jcribb16
by Silver Member on Apr. 5, 2013 at 11:20 PM


Quoting Friday:


Quoting jcribb16:


Guilty conscience?

No, you didn't call me anything but you talk down to me like I'm scum so, same difference.

Tell you what. I apologize. Someone right before you commented on my post and attacked me when she clearly misunderstood. I shouldn't have taken it out on you and I am sorry. We are all sick here so my tude isn't at it's best. I will sincerely work to be more respectful.

I believe that most pro-lifers who use the term pro-abort/ion are being rude and their intention is to insult both actions only serve to boost their opinion of themselves, hence self righteous. Every single pro-lifer I have seen use that term on CM affirms that belief with many of the other things they say in abortion debates.

No guilty conscience - I just felt like things were getting way too personal and I didn't like being accused for something I wasn't thinking of nor trying to do to you.  I have never thought of you as a "dirty liberal" and that was kind of like the last straw scenario.

Thank you for your apology - I really appreciate it.  And please know I was not trying to be condescending to you, and I sincerely apologize that it came across that way.  I'm sorry to hear of your sick household - that can definitely take a toll on a mom.  I've been sick, myself, and struggling with some issues in our family, so I totally understand where you are coming from. I hope everyone starts feeling better asap, including you.

I can see where you are coming from in thinking that about those certain ones who use the term "pro-abortion."  I will say that I have noticed a couple of times what you are speaking of.  

I know some people, because of the term having been part of their earlier years, refuse to deviate from "pro-abortion" or from "anti-abortion" because for many years, for and against abortion was indeed the devisive and hot issue of the time.  

I have read and heard, too, that some people say that "pro-choice" is a much nicer/kinder term, which still supports abortion, but does now include 'choices' for the moms.  "Pro-life" in my opinion, most definitely champions for the right to life for the babies, but at the same time, should/does include 'choices/alternatives' for moms, including alternatives to abortion, educating young ladies and moms, and learning about choices, birth control, caring for babies, etc.

P.S.  I deleted the one post, and again, thank you.

Diane1223
by Member on Apr. 5, 2013 at 11:43 PM
You actually did throw an insult my way by saying that I have reading comprehension issues, which I do not. You said that ” the term 'pro-abortion' was simply coined by self righteous pro-lifers to claim their alleged moral superiority and insult those who disagree.” You did not say anything about only certain pro lifers using the term. Yes, I am fairly new to Cafe Mom (been on here about 4 mos or so) but if you think about it being pro choice is still being for abortion, in one way, shape or form.....because you are not fully against it. I did skim through some comments, but I obviously read yours if I quoted it.


Quoting Friday:


Quoting Diane1223:

Wow, really?!!!! I, myself, being STRONGLY PRO LIFE, have never heard anyone use the word ”pro abortion” ONLY pro choice. And yes, I have many pro choice friends. But, according to you I am self righteous, morally superior,.and insulting. According to me, you are just plain selfish and you sound ignorant. Life is precious, but no one values it, now a days!





Quoting Friday:

Absolutely Pro-Choice.

IMO, the term 'pro-abortion' was simply coined by self righteous pro-lifers to claim their alleged moral superiority and insult those who disagree.



Wow, reading comprehension issues much? I said those who use the term pro-abortion are self righteous, think they are morally superior and intend to be insulting. If you don't use that term, then I wasn't talking about you, at all. I never said all pro-lifers are any of those things but I get how some people need to feign outrage over nothing. You are obviously new to CM because calling pro-choicers 'pro-aborts' is all the rage with many pro-lifers here. Why else would the OP make an entire post about it?

I'll be nice and not return the insults since you obviously misunderstood my original comments. Maybe next time you could try actually reading others comments instead of skimming, assuming and jumping to incorrect conclusions.


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denise3680
by Gold Member on Apr. 6, 2013 at 8:32 AM

 


Quoting LoveMyBoyK:

Wow, are you really so egotistical that you believe that YOUR view of the unborn MUST BE EVERYONE'S or are you just too ignorant to comprehend that prolifers sincerely do not see any difference in life between a fetus and a five year old, thus making them no more ANTI CHOICE in their views than you are for not wanting to legally allow killing a Five Year old to Be a CHOICE?


Quoting denise3680:

 


 


Quoting LoveMyBoyK:

No more than you are anti choice for not believing a person should legally be allowed to CHOOSE to kill a, say, five year old.


Quoting denise3680:


 



 



Quoting jcribb16:



That is incorrect.



Quoting Suzy_Sunshine:



That is simply untrue. People who identify as 'pro life' are concerned exclusively with fetal life, they couldn't care less about actual humans!



Quoting LoveMyBoyK:

No, it does not. Unless you describe yourself as being anti choice for being against legalizing infanticide or murder. It is a way for some pro choicers to misrepresent the views of those who do not agree that fetal life is less worth protection than, say, newborn life.




Quoting Suzy_Sunshine:



Anti Choice accurately describes people who identify as 'pro life' (which does not describe their position accurately) but Pro Abortion only describes a relatively small subset of Pro Choice Americans.



Quoting LoveMyBoyK:

Pro abortion and anti choice are both inflammatory terms used by the opposing sides to deliberately misconstrue and misrepresent views they do not share.












If a person says they do not beleive a woman should have an abortion due to life starts at conception and then makes laws to prohibit that choice, they are anti-choice. 



 




 


 I really wish your statement made any kind of sense or even slightly had anything to do with the subject at hand:/  The 5 year old is alive, able to breath sustain life on his or her own, otherwise no need to attach itself to another human to sustain its life.  That would be murder if some idiot kills a living breathing child of 5.  Why do you think one goes with the other?



 You are totally incapable of having a logical or grown up discussion on this.  First you misread what I wrote then you try and insult.  Please grow up andthink before you speak:/  I understand the point of anti-choice people, I however do not see it that way, I am pro-choice, NOT pro-abortion.  I personally wish abortion never would happen, period, but it does and that should be a woman's right to have one or not, not the government or the moral judgment of other to infringe on her right to do so.  There is a huge difference between a fetus and a 5 year old child, if you choose to make them one and the same then that is you.  I however believea child that is born is not longer a fetus that needs a host to survive.  I think you guys go off the potential of this fetus being a child someday, I do not believe you can come pair the two as one and the same.  One is alive and breathing without assistance and one is sustaining life only through another human being.  Now, I think late term abortion would be murder because if the fetus/baby is able to sustain breath outside the womb then aborted it at such a late stage would most certainly be murder. 

LoveMyBoyK
by Ruby Member on Apr. 6, 2013 at 8:52 AM
You are obviously unable to read. I DID NOT DISPUTE that pro abortion is just as much of a misrepresentation. I am PRO CHOICE, sweetheart, but misrepresenting the pro life view is no better than when they misrepresent our views.


Quoting denise3680:

 




Quoting LoveMyBoyK:

Wow, are you really so egotistical that you believe that YOUR view of the unborn MUST BE EVERYONE'S or are you just too ignorant to comprehend that prolifers sincerely do not see any difference in life between a fetus and a five year old, thus making them no more ANTI CHOICE in their views than you are for not wanting to legally allow killing a Five Year old to Be a CHOICE?



Quoting denise3680:


 



 



Quoting LoveMyBoyK:

No more than you are anti choice for not believing a person should legally be allowed to CHOOSE to kill a, say, five year old.



Quoting denise3680:



 




 




Quoting jcribb16:




That is incorrect.




Quoting Suzy_Sunshine:




That is simply untrue. People who identify as 'pro life' are concerned exclusively with fetal life, they couldn't care less about actual humans!




Quoting LoveMyBoyK:

No, it does not. Unless you describe yourself as being anti choice for being against legalizing infanticide or murder. It is a way for some pro choicers to misrepresent the views of those who do not agree that fetal life is less worth protection than, say, newborn life.





Quoting Suzy_Sunshine:




Anti Choice accurately describes people who identify as 'pro life' (which does not describe their position accurately) but Pro Abortion only describes a relatively small subset of Pro Choice Americans.




Quoting LoveMyBoyK:

Pro abortion and anti choice are both inflammatory terms used by the opposing sides to deliberately misconstrue and misrepresent views they do not share.
















If a person says they do not beleive a woman should have an abortion due to life starts at conception and then makes laws to prohibit that choice, they are anti-choice. 




 





 



 I really wish your statement made any kind of sense or even slightly had anything to do with the subject at hand:/  The 5 year old is alive, able to breath sustain life on his or her own, otherwise no need to attach itself to another human to sustain its life.  That would be murder if some idiot kills a living breathing child of 5.  Why do you think one goes with the other?





 You are totally incapable of having a logical or grown up discussion on this.  First you misread what I wrote then you try and insult.  Please grow up andthink before you speak:/  I understand the point of anti-choice people, I however do not see it that way, I am pro-choice, NOT pro-abortion.  I personally wish abortion never would happen, period, but it does and that should be a woman's right to have one or not, not the government or the moral judgment of other to infringe on her right to do so.  There is a huge difference between a fetus and a 5 year old child, if you choose to make them one and the same then that is you.  I however believea child that is born is not longer a fetus that needs a host to survive.  I think you guys go off the potential of this fetus being a child someday, I do not believe you can come pair the two as one and the same.  One is alive and breathing without assistance and one is sustaining life only through another human being.  Now, I think late term abortion would be murder because if the fetus/baby is able to sustain breath outside the womb then aborted it at such a late stage would most certainly be murder. 


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