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Aerial Footage of Arkansas Tar Sands Oil Spill (It reached the lake).








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If they enforced bank regulations like they do park rules, we wouldn't be in this mess

by on Apr. 3, 2013 at 12:43 AM
Replies (11-20):
brookiecookie87
by Platinum Member on Apr. 3, 2013 at 11:25 AM



Quoting Raintree:

I don't understand why we need to be the gateway of Canada's muck to the rest of the world. They can keep it there, or send the pipeline over their own land. Which they can't do because the Canadian people said a firm 'no'.

I guess that explains why they are so invested in the Keystone XL Pipeline.


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If they enforced bank regulations like they do park rules, we wouldn't be in this mess

Sisteract
by Whoopie on Apr. 3, 2013 at 11:37 AM
3 moms liked this

 I also think that many do not realize that the yield is for export-

Would a job be worth having that (those pictures) contaminating your home, yard, neighborhood? Or is this another example of not my yard, not my loss, not my potential health issues, not my problem?

OHgirlinCA
by Platinum Member on Apr. 3, 2013 at 11:57 AM

 What a mess :(

LindaClement
by Linda on Apr. 3, 2013 at 12:19 PM

My point is: we don't take safety (of people or the landscape) seriously on so many fronts.

When was agriculture 'good for the environment'? Jet fuel explosions? Even without talking about the mess 9/11 made, the environmental cost of flying is NOT a conversation point.

We have a huge international industry built around the new religion of environmentalism, and not one of them has suggested that the 'best' thing for the environment would be to stop flying anywhere, ever. Why? Because they make their billions getting together in various conferences all over the world, so they can nod and pat each other on the back and make scathing remarks about the people who drive, ever, or who think 3rd world employment is worth buying for, or who actually care that safe water supplies exist only in 1st world countries.

Quoting brookiecookie87:


Quoting LindaClement:

If people treated airline crashes they way they're treating this, flight would have been banned in 1961.


I don't know many airline crashes that after they crash they continue to damage the land, the animals, and the peoples lives around the area. Can you show how they do this?

A big point about the Keystone XL Pipeline is an aquifier that it can contaminate. When is the last time an airplane crashed and destroyed a water supply for states across the country?

And let's not forget no one is saying we shouldn't use the oil. If Canada wants to build a refinery on their land they are completely capable of it. It doesn't make sense to build a pipeline across our country that puts lives, the land, and our water at danger so a few people can make loads of money from it.

They can build a refinery near the oil if they want to make money from it.  There is no way to even cross this example to airlines.


brookiecookie87
by Platinum Member on Apr. 3, 2013 at 12:32 PM


So your point is you want to ignore how different the scenarios are?

You don't want to focus on that if a Oil Pipeline spills it puts the enviroment, the animals, and the people in danger for years.

You don't want to focus on that the Keystone XL Pipeline will be near an aquifier .

You don't want to focus on the fact that people want to build that pipeline across our country for profits despite the impact it can have on the land, the people, and our water.

There is a HUGE difference between airlines and Pipelines. Airlines are the only way to cross great distances extremely fast. We don't need that extra pipeline.


Quoting LindaClement:

My point is: we don't take safety (of people or the landscape) seriously on so many fronts.

When was agriculture 'good for the environment'? Jet fuel explosions? Even without talking about the mess 9/11 made, the environmental cost of flying is NOT a conversation point.

We have a huge international industry built around the new religion of environmentalism, and not one of them has suggested that the 'best' thing for the environment would be to stop flying anywhere, ever. Why? Because they make their billions getting together in various conferences all over the world, so they can nod and pat each other on the back and make scathing remarks about the people who drive, ever, or who think 3rd world employment is worth buying for, or who actually care that safe water supplies exist only in 1st world countries.


Quoting brookiecookie87:


Quoting LindaClement:

If people treated airline crashes they way they're treating this, flight would have been banned in 1961.


I don't know many airline crashes that after they crash they continue to damage the land, the animals, and the peoples lives around the area. Can you show how they do this?

A big point about the Keystone XL Pipeline is an aquifier that it can contaminate. When is the last time an airplane crashed and destroyed a water supply for states across the country?

And let's not forget no one is saying we shouldn't use the oil. If Canada wants to build a refinery on their land they are completely capable of it. It doesn't make sense to build a pipeline across our country that puts lives, the land, and our water at danger so a few people can make loads of money from it.

They can build a refinery near the oil if they want to make money from it.  There is no way to even cross this example to airlines.




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The Ninety-Nine Percent Moms   

If they enforced bank regulations like they do park rules, we wouldn't be in this mess

MissTacoBell
by on Apr. 3, 2013 at 12:46 PM
1 mom liked this
The safety rate you quote from a country that silences their scientific community if there is dissent between economic interests and safety interests and is from the very organization that stands to gain BILLIONS from the KXL.

Not reliable info.


Quoting LindaClement:

My point is: we don't take safety (of people or the landscape) seriously on so many fronts.

When was agriculture 'good for the environment'? Jet fuel explosions? Even without talking about the mess 9/11 made, the environmental cost of flying is NOT a conversation point.

We have a huge international industry built around the new religion of environmentalism, and not one of them has suggested that the 'best' thing for the environment would be to stop flying anywhere, ever. Why? Because they make their billions getting together in various conferences all over the world, so they can nod and pat each other on the back and make scathing remarks about the people who drive, ever, or who think 3rd world employment is worth buying for, or who actually care that safe water supplies exist only in 1st world countries.

Quoting brookiecookie87:



Quoting LindaClement:

If people treated airline crashes they way they're treating this, flight would have been banned in 1961.



I don't know many airline crashes that after they crash they continue to damage the land, the animals, and the peoples lives around the area. Can you show how they do this?

A big point about the Keystone XL Pipeline is an aquifier that it can contaminate. When is the last time an airplane crashed and destroyed a water supply for states across the country?

And let's not forget no one is saying we shouldn't use the oil. If Canada wants to build a refinery on their land they are completely capable of it. It doesn't make sense to build a pipeline across our country that puts lives, the land, and our water at danger so a few people can make loads of money from it.

They can build a refinery near the oil if they want to make money from it.  There is no way to even cross this example to airlines.



Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
grandmab125
by Gold Member on Apr. 3, 2013 at 1:01 PM

 As sad as this spill is, you must realize that the age of the pipeline probably had a lot to do with it.  It was built in the 1940's.  Perhaps with the new XL pipeline, completely built, we could bypass some of these older lines. 

An oil spill that fouled an Arkansas town is raising questions about the U.S. pipeline network and the safety of importing Canadian heavy crude, as President Barack Obama weighs whether to approve the Keystone XL project.

Enlarge imageExxon’s Arkansas Spill Raises New Scrutiny of Keystone

Exxon’s Arkansas Spill Raises New Scrutiny of Keystone

Exxon’s Arkansas Spill Raises New Scrutiny of Keystone

Alan English/The Log Cabin Democrat via AP Photo

Crews set out containment booms as they cleanup and check wildlife in Mayflower, Arkansas.

Crews set out containment booms as they cleanup and check wildlife in Mayflower, Arkansas. Photographer: Alan English/The Log Cabin Democrat via AP Photo

Environmental groups said the rupture of the Exxon Mobil Corp. (XOM) pipe on March 29 in Mayflower, Arkansas, shows why Obama should reject Keystone, which would be a major new conduit between the U.S. and Canada for a type of fuel critics say is more corrosive than more conventional forms of oil.

“Without question, this underscores the risks of transporting this stuff,” Jim Murphy, senior counsel at the National Wildlife Federation, said yesterday in a phone interview.

The U.S. State Department is reviewing TransCanada Corp.’s (TRP) Keystone project to link Alberta’s oil sands with refineries along the Gulf Coast because it crosses an international border. White House press secretary Jay Carney said yesterday the White House takes the safety of the pipeline system “very seriously.” He said the Environmental Protection Agency is working with local officials and Exxon on the Arkansas spill.

Republicans and some Democrats in Congress argue Keystone will create thousands of jobs and improve U.S. energy security. The Senate on March 22 approved 62-37 a non-binding resolution encouraging the project’s development. If built, the pipeline each day could carry more than 800,000 barrels of diluted bitumen, or dilbit.

Pegasus Pipeline

Exxon’s pipeline, known as Pegasus, can carry 96,000 barrels a day. The 20-inch (51-centimeter) line runs to Nederland, Texas, from Patoka, Illinois. The pipeline carried a type of dilbit similar to what would be transported on Keystone.

One question central to the debate is whether this type of fuel is more corrosive than conventional crude.

Fuel from Alberta’s oil sands can pose a greater risk if it is transported at a higher temperature or under greater pressure, Richard Kuprewicz, president of Accufacts Inc., a Redmond, Washington-based pipeline safety consultant, said yesterday in a telephone interview.

Operators using modern pipeline-safety techniques can manage the risks by cleaning out the line more frequently or carefully monitoring how the bitumen is diluted, he said.

“You just don’t write off the corrosion threat,” he said. “You’ve got to be sure you’re managing it.”

‘Stronger Standards’

The National Wildlife Federation, based in Reston, Virginia, asked the U.S. last month to develop stronger standards for transporting tar-sands oil.

The group said in a statement that the fuel has the consistency of “gritty peanut butter.” Because it’s heavier than conventional crude, it is often tougher to clean up, particularly if it leaks into water bodies where it sinks to the bottom rather than floating on top, Murphy said.

“Whether it’s the proposed Keystone XL pipeline, or this mess in Arkansas, Americans are realizing that transporting large amounts of this corrosive and polluting fuel is a bad deal for American taxpayers and for our environment,” Representative Edward Markey, a Massachusetts Democrat, said in a statement.

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency last month directed Enbridge Inc. (ENB) to perform more dredging in Michigan’s Kalamazoo River as part of a cleanup from a July 2010 rupture of a 30-inch pipeline that also carried heavy crude.

More than 843,000 gallons spilled during the leak. The oil flowed into Talmadge Creek before entering the Kalamazoo River, coating birds and wildlife with an oily residue.

Late 1940s

Exxon said the section that ruptured in the Arkansas town of Mayflower, about 22 miles northwest of Little Rock, was installed in the late 1940s. Larry Farnsworth, a spokesman for Representative Lee Terry, a Nebraska Republican who supports Keystone, said the spill shows the need for the U.S. to upgrade its infrastructure. A portion of the pipeline would cross Terry’s home state.

Keystone will be the “most modern and highly engineered pipeline that can be built,” Farnsworth said in a phone interview yesterday.

Shawn Howard, a spokesman for TransCanada, said the company has agreed to higher safety standards with U.S. regulators for the Keystone XL, such as increasing the number of shutoff valves, boosting inspections and burying the pipe deeper in the ground.

The Arkansas spill “is an unfortunate circumstance and demonstrates the pipeline industry must continue to focus on the safe, reliable operation of its energy infrastructure,” Howard said in an e-mail yesterday.

364 Spills

Last year, there were 364 spills from pipelines in the U.S. that released about 54,000 barrels of oil and refined products, according to the Pipeline & Hazardous Materials Safety Administration, a division within the Department of Transportation. Any incident in which more than five gallons of fuel leaked is counted as a spill.

Each year, about 11.9 billion barrels of oil, gasoline and other refined products are pumped across the network of pipelines, said John Stoody, director of government and public relations for the Association of Oil Pipe Lines, a Washington- based group whose members own about 85 percent of the liquid pipelines in the U.S.

“Incidents do happen, but they’re rare,” Stoody said in an interview. There are 119,000 miles of pipelines carrying crude oil and refined products in the U.S., Stoody said.

“The properties of Canadian oil sands crude are similar to other heavy crudes from California, Venezuela and other places and transported safely across the U.S. for decades,” Stoody said in an e-mail.

In Arkansas, Exxon has said it collected about 12,000 barrels of oil and water from the spill, according to a statement yesterday from the Mayflower Incident Unified Command Joint Information Center. The town recommended that 22 homes be evacuated, it said. Exxon (XOM) said no oil had reached nearby Lake Conway.

To contact the reporters on this story: Jim Snyder in Washington at jsnyder24@bloomberg.net; Bradley Olson in Houston at mailto:bradleyolson@bloomberg.net

brookiecookie87
by Platinum Member on Apr. 3, 2013 at 1:52 PM


Have the owners of the Pegasus pipeline said they plan to close down some of their pipelines?

Have any of the people who send oil through those pipes mentioned if the new one opens they will stop using the old ones?

Because I haven't heard a statement like that from any source yet.




Quoting grandmab125:

 As sad as this spill is, you must realize that the age of the pipeline probably had a lot to do with it.  It was built in the 1940's.  Perhaps with the new XL pipeline, completely built, we could bypass some of these older lines. 



Join us on the 99% Moms group!
The Ninety-Nine Percent Moms   

If they enforced bank regulations like they do park rules, we wouldn't be in this mess

Sisteract
by Whoopie on Apr. 3, 2013 at 4:42 PM

 That being said, how come Canadians voted NO when it came to the pipeline running through Canadian provinces?

Quoting LindaClement:

My point is: we don't take safety (of people or the landscape) seriously on so many fronts.

When was agriculture 'good for the environment'? Jet fuel explosions? Even without talking about the mess 9/11 made, the environmental cost of flying is NOT a conversation point.

We have a huge international industry built around the new religion of environmentalism, and not one of them has suggested that the 'best' thing for the environment would be to stop flying anywhere, ever. Why? Because they make their billions getting together in various conferences all over the world, so they can nod and pat each other on the back and make scathing remarks about the people who drive, ever, or who think 3rd world employment is worth buying for, or who actually care that safe water supplies exist only in 1st world countries.

Quoting brookiecookie87:

 

Quoting LindaClement:

If people treated airline crashes they way they're treating this, flight would have been banned in 1961.

 

I don't know many airline crashes that after they crash they continue to damage the land, the animals, and the peoples lives around the area. Can you show how they do this?

A big point about the Keystone XL Pipeline is an aquifier that it can contaminate. When is the last time an airplane crashed and destroyed a water supply for states across the country?

And let's not forget no one is saying we shouldn't use the oil. If Canada wants to build a refinery on their land they are completely capable of it. It doesn't make sense to build a pipeline across our country that puts lives, the land, and our water at danger so a few people can make loads of money from it.

They can build a refinery near the oil if they want to make money from it.  There is no way to even cross this example to airlines.


 

Raintree
by Ruby Member on Apr. 3, 2013 at 4:53 PM

They have not, and the keystone line already going through my state (just a mile from my home!) has leaked 12 times- and it is not old.

Quoting brookiecookie87:


Have the owners of the Pegasus pipeline said they plan to close down some of their pipelines?

Have any of the people who send oil through those pipes mentioned if the new one opens they will stop using the old ones?

Because I haven't heard a statement like that from any source yet.




Quoting grandmab125:

 As sad as this spill is, you must realize that the age of the pipeline probably had a lot to do with it.  It was built in the 1940's.  Perhaps with the new XL pipeline, completely built, we could bypass some of these older lines. 




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