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I could understand the reluctance to approve of same sex marriage and other rights of the gay community if being homosexual was actually a choice.

Posted by   + Show Post

If it was a choice and a person wanted to get married, you would think they would only date people to whom they could actually be married one day, i.e. opposite sex people.  Most marriage minded heterosexual people make this choice by dating people available for marriage and not dating people not open to or compatible with marriage; for example already married people or those who don't agree with their religion, etc., etc., etc.

However, how can someone actually believe it is a choice in the first place?

by on Apr. 7, 2013 at 2:23 PM
Replies (111-115):
Bethsunshine
by Bronze Member on Apr. 8, 2013 at 7:40 PM
1 mom liked this

I"m a Christian and I have a controversial viewpoint ( at least among other Christians) about homosexuality being a choice. I believe people are born with homosexual tendencies because I don't think any person in their right mind would CHOOSE this lifestyle. My husband and I were discussing this last week and he said to me, "You had guy problems in the past right? It's not like you all of a sudden decided to like girls because some guys treated you like crap."

futureshock
by Ruby Member on Apr. 8, 2013 at 10:21 PM


Quoting TranquilMind:

 No, I don't think evolution is hogwash.

No, principles and doing the right thing are timeless. 


Quoting illogicalkat:

Do you believe evolution is hogwash, too?

This mindset that you keep proclaiming as fact went out of style a few centuries ago. My parents would be ashamed of me if I were speaking like this.


Quoting TranquilMind:

 Who is talking about repulsion??  Or abot my Mom being repulsed by men?? 

I answered the question given, and now you are attempting to extend the parameters.  

Attraction happens, but YOU decide what you do with it.  That was my point. 

You've made a new corollary that if attraction happens, that repulsion must happen. Sure it does in male-female attraction.  Try sticking the same poles of two magnets together (either the + or the -).  You will get repulsion because two of the same repel each other while two of the opposite poles attract, very much like men and women.  That's the default position for humans. 


Quoting desertlvn:


You aren't answering the question. Was your mom repulsed by her husband? Was your mom a lesbian who not only wasn't attracted to men, but found the idea of sleeping with them to be repulsive, dirty, and off putting? I think not.

Yes, attraction can happen. Meaning repulsion can happen too.

Quoting TranquilMind:

 Attraction can happen, but YOU choose how you respond to it. 

My Mom told me this story once a long time ago, and I never forgot it.  She was quite an attractive young woman, with amazing shampoo-commercial hair that I envy. She took a job after some of the kids were in school, before having the next round of babies.  At one point a very attractive man in the office came and sat with her at lunch.  He continued to show up where she was at the office, talk to her, and try to have lunch with her.  She said that all of her radar was going off on that one, and she knew it would be dangerous to continue.

So she started going somewhere else for lunch every day other than the lunchroom (I think I have this right. She's gone now, so I can't ask).   She said she couldn't take the risk of developing an attraction that would go anywhere, so she removed the possibility.  She knew if she proceeded to have lunch with him and talk to him and let the attraction grow, she would be totally responsible for whatever happened.  Only a fool tells herself, "Oh that could NEVER happen to me!"

Wise woman of character. 


Quoting desertlvn:


But can you choose who you are attracted to? I think not. I would find it repulsive to sleep with someone who I don't find attractive. I actually did so twice. The two experiences remain strong in my mind because of how dirty, unfullfilling, and off-putting it was. It was just.... wrong. If someone isn't attracted to the opposite sex, I imagine forcing a physical relationship with them would be just as negative.

I understand what you are saying below, but remember that relationships aren't simply about sparks of attraction and love.

Quoting TranquilMind:


That's just absolute baloney.  You chose to do what you did, and you opened yourself up to the possibility early on.  You could have chosen to not pursue this relationship and eventually, you would have found someone else.    You might not have been able to help a spark of attraction, but you are TOTALLY responsible for whether that goes anywhere or not. 

Doesn't anyone take responsibility for anything they do anymore? 

Quoting purpleducky:

You cannot choose who you fall in love with. Even if I would not have dated my wife, I would have still been in love with her and if I had attempted to live a life without her in it I would have had a piece of my life. You can choose who you date and marry but that does not mean you get to choose who you fall in love with and who you are sexuall attracted to.












I don't think it is fair to expect an entire group of people to lead solitary lives simply because they are not attracted to opposite sexed people.

futureshock
by Ruby Member on Apr. 8, 2013 at 10:24 PM

But what is the inborn hardwired, default position of a human female for you isn't the same for all females.

Quoting TranquilMind:

 NO, and I didn't have to choose to follow the inborn hardwired, default position of a human female.  I didn't happen to struggle with temptation in that particular area. 

In other areas, I've had to choose not to do the wrong thing though (inappropriate men, the "oh, by the way, I have a wife" kind). 



Quoting lilbit53009:

were any of those mistakes women then?

i assume no...so then what age were you when you choose to be a heterosexual?

Quoting TranquilMind:

 Ha. Um, no, I made a few mistakes while dating, for sure.  People screw up.  But then I realized how what I was doing would get me to my big picture.  So I changed what I was doing and stopped dating altogether actually in my late 20s.  I made a list of 25 traits I wanted in a husband- from mere preferences to integral necessities - and asked the Lord to bring that guy to me, if you want to know the truth.  It didn't happen for a couple of years, but when it did, guess what?  I got every single quality on my list, from eye color, to shared faith, to intellect, to identical values, to strengths where I am weak (tax genius!) - every single one but ONE irrelevant one (height).  24 out of 25, and the 25th wasn't far off.  I even got one quality that my friends never expected I could even find, and they actually laughed at me when I told them what I had done. 

Worked for me.  I could have chosen to keep seeing the inappropriate guys but that wouldn't get me where I was going, so I stopped after a few stumbles. I make many mistakes but I always learn from them. 

You are presuming without foundation that someone that identifies as homosexual could never have fallen in love with the opposite gender, had that person decided that this was the only viable option. 


Quoting purpleducky:

So you gave into the temptation of your husband? So you only surrounded yourself with suitable, eligible bachelors when you were dating? Your thinking is so far out there. Even if homosexual people stayed away from people of the same sex, what kind of life is that? Life without love all for fear of what others will say about you is no way to live. And Christians have no monopoly on the word marriage.

Quoting TranquilMind:

 Because they give into their temptations, that just happen to be in that area.  Other people give into other temptations - to drink, drug, cut school, stuff their faces, have an affair with a married man/woman, porn. 


Everyone has different temptations because of things that have happened. 


Quoting futureshock:


Why wouldn't these children just choose to be straight and avoid all of this?


Gay Bullying Statistics:


According to recent gay bullying statistics, gay and lesbian teens are two to three times as more likely to commit teen suicide than other youths. About 30 percent of all completed suicides have been related to sexual identity crisis. Students who also fall into the gay, bisexual, lesbian or transgendered identity groups report being five times as more likely to miss school because they feel unsafe after being bullied due to their sexual orientation. About 28 percent out of those groups feel forced to drop out of school altogether. Although more and more schools are working to crack down on problems with bullying, teens are still continuing to bully each other due to sexual orientation and other factors. 


In a 2005 survey about gay bullying statistics, teens reported that the number two reason they are bullied is because of their actual or perceived sexual orientation or gender expression. The number one reason reported was because of appearance. Teens are at a pivotal point in their young adult lives when they are trying to find out who they are and who they are about to become as adults. This is why being teased, bullied and harassed is something that could negatively affect a person's self-esteem and view of themselves for the rest of their life.


In fact, about 9 out of 10 LGBT teens have reported being bullied at school within the past year because of their sexual orientation, according to the most recent gay bullying statistics. Out of those numbers, almost half have reported being physically harassed followed by another quarter who reported actually being physically assaulted.  Unfortunately most teens who experience bullying of any kind are reluctant to share their experience or report the incident to a teacher or trusted adult. Even more unfortunate are the gay statistics that report a lack of response among those teachers and school administration. According to a recent statistic, out of the students that did report a harassment or bullying situation because of their sexuality, about one third of the school staff didn't do anything to resolve the issue.


http://www.bullyingstatistics.org/content/gay-bullying-statistics.html












TranquilMind
by Platinum Member on Apr. 9, 2013 at 12:28 AM

 Absent any sort of genetic proof whatsoever -which will never be found - it is. 


Quoting futureshock:

But what is the inborn hardwired, default position of a human female for you isn't the same for all females.

Quoting TranquilMind:

 NO, and I didn't have to choose to follow the inborn hardwired, default position of a human female.  I didn't happen to struggle with temptation in that particular area. 

In other areas, I've had to choose not to do the wrong thing though (inappropriate men, the "oh, by the way, I have a wife" kind). 

 

 

Quoting lilbit53009:

were any of those mistakes women then?

i assume no...so then what age were you when you choose to be a heterosexual?

Quoting TranquilMind:

 Ha. Um, no, I made a few mistakes while dating, for sure.  People screw up.  But then I realized how what I was doing would get me to my big picture.  So I changed what I was doing and stopped dating altogether actually in my late 20s.  I made a list of 25 traits I wanted in a husband- from mere preferences to integral necessities - and asked the Lord to bring that guy to me, if you want to know the truth.  It didn't happen for a couple of years, but when it did, guess what?  I got every single quality on my list, from eye color, to shared faith, to intellect, to identical values, to strengths where I am weak (tax genius!) - every single one but ONE irrelevant one (height).  24 out of 25, and the 25th wasn't far off.  I even got one quality that my friends never expected I could even find, and they actually laughed at me when I told them what I had done. 

Worked for me.  I could have chosen to keep seeing the inappropriate guys but that wouldn't get me where I was going, so I stopped after a few stumbles. I make many mistakes but I always learn from them. 

You are presuming without foundation that someone that identifies as homosexual could never have fallen in love with the opposite gender, had that person decided that this was the only viable option. 

 

Quoting purpleducky:

So you gave into the temptation of your husband? So you only surrounded yourself with suitable, eligible bachelors when you were dating? Your thinking is so far out there. Even if homosexual people stayed away from people of the same sex, what kind of life is that? Life without love all for fear of what others will say about you is no way to live. And Christians have no monopoly on the word marriage.

Quoting TranquilMind:

 Because they give into their temptations, that just happen to be in that area.  Other people give into other temptations - to drink, drug, cut school, stuff their faces, have an affair with a married man/woman, porn. 


Everyone has different temptations because of things that have happened. 


Quoting futureshock:


Why wouldn't these children just choose to be straight and avoid all of this?


Gay Bullying Statistics:


According to recent gay bullying statistics, gay and lesbian teens are two to three times as more likely to commit teen suicide than other youths. About 30 percent of all completed suicides have been related to sexual identity crisis. Students who also fall into the gay, bisexual, lesbian or transgendered identity groups report being five times as more likely to miss school because they feel unsafe after being bullied due to their sexual orientation. About 28 percent out of those groups feel forced to drop out of school altogether. Although more and more schools are working to crack down on problems with bullying, teens are still continuing to bully each other due to sexual orientation and other factors. 


In a 2005 survey about gay bullying statistics, teens reported that the number two reason they are bullied is because of their actual or perceived sexual orientation or gender expression. The number one reason reported was because of appearance. Teens are at a pivotal point in their young adult lives when they are trying to find out who they are and who they are about to become as adults. This is why being teased, bullied and harassed is something that could negatively affect a person's self-esteem and view of themselves for the rest of their life.


In fact, about 9 out of 10 LGBT teens have reported being bullied at school within the past year because of their sexual orientation, according to the most recent gay bullying statistics. Out of those numbers, almost half have reported being physically harassed followed by another quarter who reported actually being physically assaulted.  Unfortunately most teens who experience bullying of any kind are reluctant to share their experience or report the incident to a teacher or trusted adult. Even more unfortunate are the gay statistics that report a lack of response among those teachers and school administration. According to a recent statistic, out of the students that did report a harassment or bullying situation because of their sexuality, about one third of the school staff didn't do anything to resolve the issue.


http://www.bullyingstatistics.org/content/gay-bullying-statistics.html


 


 

 

 



 

 



 

TranquilMind
by Platinum Member on Apr. 9, 2013 at 12:29 AM

 They aren't solitary NOW....why would they be solitary? 


Quoting futureshock:


Quoting TranquilMind:

 No, I don't think evolution is hogwash.

No, principles and doing the right thing are timeless. 

 

Quoting illogicalkat:

Do you believe evolution is hogwash, too?

This mindset that you keep proclaiming as fact went out of style a few centuries ago. My parents would be ashamed of me if I were speaking like this.

 

Quoting TranquilMind:

 Who is talking about repulsion??  Or abot my Mom being repulsed by men?? 

I answered the question given, and now you are attempting to extend the parameters.  

Attraction happens, but YOU decide what you do with it.  That was my point. 

You've made a new corollary that if attraction happens, that repulsion must happen. Sure it does in male-female attraction.  Try sticking the same poles of two magnets together (either the + or the -).  You will get repulsion because two of the same repel each other while two of the opposite poles attract, very much like men and women.  That's the default position for humans. 

 

Quoting desertlvn:

 

You aren't answering the question. Was your mom repulsed by her husband? Was your mom a lesbian who not only wasn't attracted to men, but found the idea of sleeping with them to be repulsive, dirty, and off putting? I think not.

Yes, attraction can happen. Meaning repulsion can happen too.

Quoting TranquilMind:

 Attraction can happen, but YOU choose how you respond to it. 

My Mom told me this story once a long time ago, and I never forgot it.  She was quite an attractive young woman, with amazing shampoo-commercial hair that I envy. She took a job after some of the kids were in school, before having the next round of babies.  At one point a very attractive man in the office came and sat with her at lunch.  He continued to show up where she was at the office, talk to her, and try to have lunch with her.  She said that all of her radar was going off on that one, and she knew it would be dangerous to continue.

So she started going somewhere else for lunch every day other than the lunchroom (I think I have this right. She's gone now, so I can't ask).   She said she couldn't take the risk of developing an attraction that would go anywhere, so she removed the possibility.  She knew if she proceeded to have lunch with him and talk to him and let the attraction grow, she would be totally responsible for whatever happened.  Only a fool tells herself, "Oh that could NEVER happen to me!"

Wise woman of character. 

 

Quoting desertlvn:

 

But can you choose who you are attracted to? I think not. I would find it repulsive to sleep with someone who I don't find attractive. I actually did so twice. The two experiences remain strong in my mind because of how dirty, unfullfilling, and off-putting it was. It was just.... wrong. If someone isn't attracted to the opposite sex, I imagine forcing a physical relationship with them would be just as negative.

I understand what you are saying below, but remember that relationships aren't simply about sparks of attraction and love.

Quoting TranquilMind:

 

That's just absolute baloney.  You chose to do what you did, and you opened yourself up to the possibility early on.  You could have chosen to not pursue this relationship and eventually, you would have found someone else.    You might not have been able to help a spark of attraction, but you are TOTALLY responsible for whether that goes anywhere or not. 

Doesn't anyone take responsibility for anything they do anymore? 

Quoting purpleducky:

You cannot choose who you fall in love with. Even if I would not have dated my wife, I would have still been in love with her and if I had attempted to live a life without her in it I would have had a piece of my life. You can choose who you date and marry but that does not mean you get to choose who you fall in love with and who you are sexuall attracted to.


 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think it is fair to expect an entire group of people to lead solitary lives simply because they are not attracted to opposite sexed people.


 

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