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It always comes down to mental illness

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It always comes down to mental illness

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Published April 10, 2013 

 

FoxNews.com

 

Dylan Quick, the 20-year-old accused of going on a stabbing rampage yesterday-injuring 14 people at Lone Star Community College in Texas-should settle the gun control/violence debate, once and for all.  

 

That won't happen, of course, because people who want to restrict personal freedoms will still turn a blind eye to the obvious: After years of America destroying its mental health care system, leaving it in ruins, as a national disgrace, cases of undiagnosed and untreated mental illness are to blame for the horrific episodes of violence that have made headlines and wrongly fueled gun control legislation.  

 

This is true for Jared Lee Loughner, who shot Congressman Gabrielle Giffords in Tucson, Arizona.  It is true for James Holmes, the man accused of murdering 12 people in a Colorado movie theatre.  It is true for Adam Lanza, the man who murdered 20 children and 6 adults at the Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut.  

 

When legislators dally with measures targeted at guns or knives, instead of the very ill folks who sometimes use them to hurt others, they sow the seeds of tomorrow's tragedies.

 

Dylan Quick reportedly fantasized about killing people by stabbing them since he was a child.  He reportedly walked around wearing gloves, even in warm weather, clutching stuffed animals. 

 

I believe it will turn out that Mr. Quick, like the rest of the recent perpetrators of mass violence, fell through the colossal cracks in our decrepit system. A system of antiquated psychiatric facilities, understaffed community mental health centers and insurance companies hell-bent on restricting mental health care resources in a disproportionate fashion, compared to those targeted at other illnesses, and one which is a shameful show of prejudice towards the afflicted.

 

Anyone who now advocates limiting public access to knives of one kind or another, including the kind allegedly used by Mr. Quick, is either hopelessly misguided or a charlatan looking to make political points from this latest tragedy.  

 

When America allowed third-party insurers to decide how to appropriate mental health care resources, like wolves at chicken coops, the seeds of the tragedies in Arizona and Colorado and Connecticut and, now, Texas were being sown.  

 

When American psychiatrists decided to allow the American Psychiatric Association to coax so many in my profession out of their role as expert therapists who also prescribe medicines and into the role of "medication" doctors seeing patients for ten minutes, the seeds of these tragedies were being sown.  

 

When state legislators and public health officials decided that shutting down state hospitals and financially choking community mental health centers nearly to death was okay, the seeds of these tragedies were being sown. 

 

And when state and federal legislators dally with meaningless measures targeted at guns or knives, instead of the very ill folks who sometimes use them to hurt others, they sow the seeds of tomorrow's tragedies.

 

There's a reason why investigators and prosecutors and reporters and the public have such a hard time understanding the motives of men like Loughner, Holmes, Lanza and, if reports are true, Quick. It's because their motives are shrouded in the irrational thoughts born of mental illness, often in its most aggressive incarnation-psychosis.  

 

Take all the guns away.

 

Take all the knives away.  

 

The number of victims of murders with no apparent motive-born of under-treated, poorly treated or untreated mental illness-will be reduced not one bit. 

 

Because there will still be cars, and poisons, and hammers, and axes that can be used to inflict horrible injuries. The worst episode of school violence, back in 1927, claimed the lives of 38 children, and it involved explosives, not guns or knives.

 

Leaders either fix things, do nothing or harm needed efforts. Those who would control weapons, instead of mental illness, are in the third category.

 

 

Dr. Keith Ablow is a psychiatrist and member of the Fox News Medical A-Team. Dr. Ablow can be reached at info@keithablow.com.

 



Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/04/10/it-not-knives-it-not-guns-it-mental-illness-that-kills/#ixzz2QBQ1BXuv

 

grandma B

by on Apr. 11, 2013 at 3:05 PM
Replies (41-50):
mehamil1
by Platinum Member on Apr. 11, 2013 at 7:23 PM
1 mom liked this

Is the shit house rat a danger to itself or others? Do they display violent tendencies towards themselves or others? If they do, I think that justifies doing something. Locking them away? I don't know. In children, that's not so much mental illness as it is frustration and an inability to communicate whatever the hell is bothering them so they act out. There are ways of dealing with that where no one has to be locked away. 

In adults though, different ball game. How crazy is this rat. Is it talking to yourself crazy? Seeing things crazy? Mood swings crazy? Are these things causing some pretty destructive behavior? In what way? Hording is pretty destructive and crazy but it can be treated without anyone being locked up. Same with depression and bi polar disorder. 

I can go around and around with this. I just want to know if that shit house rat is harming itself or others. 

Quoting Carpy:

You may be crazier than a shit house rat, but that doesn't justify locking someone away because they MIGHT do something.

Carpy
by Ruby Member on Apr. 11, 2013 at 7:26 PM

Most of these people do not have a history of violence.  If they did then that is justification to lock them up already.  But then, they have already committed a crime.

Quoting Farmlady09:

As long as those who are mentally ill and violent are ignored, slip through the cracks, OR ~ and this might be the most important issue ~ allowed to refuse to medicate if they are adults, violence like this is not going to stop.

The biggest part of the problem is the lack of any decent mental health care. That does not excuse the other large part of the problem which is people who think it's a terrible thing to force treatment, including inhouse treatment, for those who are violent.

Since those who are against forcing treatment, or make excuses like 'it's not a crime to be mentally ill' or 'they can't help it' are also the ones who seem to push for gun control ~ I tend to consider that group as enablers as well as control freaks.

There is no way that both sides can 'win' on this one. Either the country goes after the problem and insists on a solution, or violence will continue to escalate and innocent lives will be taken. It's that simple. The one thing I do know is that if people choose to continue to allow violent mentally ill people to roam freely out of some bizarre, misplaced sentiment there is even more incentive for me to 'cling' to my guns. Like it or not, I will retain my right to shoot these people if I or my loved ones are attacked as part of the solution if the bunch with the misplaced sentiment can't figure out a more 'humane' solution to the problem.

We shoot rabid dogs, dangerous dogs, bears, alligators, cougars, wolves, coyotes, etc. if they attack humans. Well, if it's 'wrong' to lock up a violent and dangerous human, then the only option left is to shoot them as well. People had better get over some of that pc infection sooner rather than later on this one.


GeekMommi
by on Apr. 11, 2013 at 7:27 PM

I'm saying this only to make a point not to start a fight but Carpy has said she doesn't agree with committing people and she is pro gun. So I don't think its that black and white.


Quoting Farmlady09:

As long as those who are mentally ill and violent are ignored, slip through the cracks, OR ~ and this might be the most important issue ~ allowed to refuse to medicate if they are adults, violence like this is not going to stop.

The biggest part of the problem is the lack of any decent mental health care. That does not excuse the other large part of the problem which is people who think it's a terrible thing to force treatment, including inhouse treatment, for those who are violent.

Since those who are against forcing treatment, or make excuses like 'it's not a crime to be mentally ill' or 'they can't help it' are also the ones who seem to push for gun control ~ I tend to consider that group as enablers as well as control freaks.

There is no way that both sides can 'win' on this one. Either the country goes after the problem and insists on a solution, or violence will continue to escalate and innocent lives will be taken. It's that simple. The one thing I do know is that if people choose to continue to allow violent mentally ill people to roam freely out of some bizarre, misplaced sentiment there is even more incentive for me to 'cling' to my guns. Like it or not, I will retain my right to shoot these people if I or my loved ones are attacked as part of the solution if the bunch with the misplaced sentiment can't figure out a more 'humane' solution to the problem.

We shoot rabid dogs, dangerous dogs, bears, alligators, cougars, wolves, coyotes, etc. if they attack humans. Well, if it's 'wrong' to lock up a violent and dangerous human, then the only option left is to shoot them as well. People had better get over some of that pc infection sooner rather than later on this one.



Carpy
by Ruby Member on Apr. 11, 2013 at 7:31 PM

I did not say I do not agree with committing people but it is a hell of a lot more complex than that.  I am only talking mass killers.  They usually do not have a history of violence, there are indicators, but not violence.   That is why people say, "they just snapped".  How do you lock them up for something they have not yet done?

Quoting GeekMommi:

I'm saying this only to make a point not to start a fight but Carpy has said she doesn't agree with committing people and she is pro gun. So I don't think its that black and white.


Quoting Farmlady09:

As long as those who are mentally ill and violent are ignored, slip through the cracks, OR ~ and this might be the most important issue ~ allowed to refuse to medicate if they are adults, violence like this is not going to stop.

The biggest part of the problem is the lack of any decent mental health care. That does not excuse the other large part of the problem which is people who think it's a terrible thing to force treatment, including inhouse treatment, for those who are violent.

Since those who are against forcing treatment, or make excuses like 'it's not a crime to be mentally ill' or 'they can't help it' are also the ones who seem to push for gun control ~ I tend to consider that group as enablers as well as control freaks.

There is no way that both sides can 'win' on this one. Either the country goes after the problem and insists on a solution, or violence will continue to escalate and innocent lives will be taken. It's that simple. The one thing I do know is that if people choose to continue to allow violent mentally ill people to roam freely out of some bizarre, misplaced sentiment there is even more incentive for me to 'cling' to my guns. Like it or not, I will retain my right to shoot these people if I or my loved ones are attacked as part of the solution if the bunch with the misplaced sentiment can't figure out a more 'humane' solution to the problem.

We shoot rabid dogs, dangerous dogs, bears, alligators, cougars, wolves, coyotes, etc. if they attack humans. Well, if it's 'wrong' to lock up a violent and dangerous human, then the only option left is to shoot them as well. People had better get over some of that pc infection sooner rather than later on this one.




Carpy
by Ruby Member on Apr. 11, 2013 at 7:34 PM
1 mom liked this

I am not pro give-every-loony- fuck- on- the- streets, guns.  I refused a sale to a guy who passed a BGC, because he is an admitted paranoid schizophrenic.  He comes in my store all the time for tobacco, and is pretty freaking goofy.  I do not want a gun in his hands.  He wanted to buy it before the mental health checks came into law.  He flat out told me that.

Quoting GeekMommi:

I'm saying this only to make a point not to start a fight but Carpy has said she doesn't agree with committing people and she is pro gun. So I don't think its that black and white.


Quoting Farmlady09:

As long as those who are mentally ill and violent are ignored, slip through the cracks, OR ~ and this might be the most important issue ~ allowed to refuse to medicate if they are adults, violence like this is not going to stop.

The biggest part of the problem is the lack of any decent mental health care. That does not excuse the other large part of the problem which is people who think it's a terrible thing to force treatment, including inhouse treatment, for those who are violent.

Since those who are against forcing treatment, or make excuses like 'it's not a crime to be mentally ill' or 'they can't help it' are also the ones who seem to push for gun control ~ I tend to consider that group as enablers as well as control freaks.

There is no way that both sides can 'win' on this one. Either the country goes after the problem and insists on a solution, or violence will continue to escalate and innocent lives will be taken. It's that simple. The one thing I do know is that if people choose to continue to allow violent mentally ill people to roam freely out of some bizarre, misplaced sentiment there is even more incentive for me to 'cling' to my guns. Like it or not, I will retain my right to shoot these people if I or my loved ones are attacked as part of the solution if the bunch with the misplaced sentiment can't figure out a more 'humane' solution to the problem.

We shoot rabid dogs, dangerous dogs, bears, alligators, cougars, wolves, coyotes, etc. if they attack humans. Well, if it's 'wrong' to lock up a violent and dangerous human, then the only option left is to shoot them as well. People had better get over some of that pc infection sooner rather than later on this one.




GeekMommi
by on Apr. 11, 2013 at 7:35 PM

You can lock somebody up for saying they are going to kill themselves are anyone else, even without a violent past. But getting someone committed is so much harder now. I think that is what we need to fix. I understand its a delicate balance but what choice do we have?


Quoting Carpy:

I did not say I do not agree with committing people but it is a hell of a lot more complex than that.  I am only talking mass killers.  They usually do not have a history of violence, there are indicators, but not violence.   That is why people say, "they just snapped".  How do you lock them up for something they have not yet done?

Quoting GeekMommi:

I'm saying this only to make a point not to start a fight but Carpy has said she doesn't agree with committing people and she is pro gun. So I don't think its that black and white.


Quoting Farmlady09:

As long as those who are mentally ill and violent are ignored, slip through the cracks, OR ~ and this might be the most important issue ~ allowed to refuse to medicate if they are adults, violence like this is not going to stop.

The biggest part of the problem is the lack of any decent mental health care. That does not excuse the other large part of the problem which is people who think it's a terrible thing to force treatment, including inhouse treatment, for those who are violent.

Since those who are against forcing treatment, or make excuses like 'it's not a crime to be mentally ill' or 'they can't help it' are also the ones who seem to push for gun control ~ I tend to consider that group as enablers as well as control freaks.

There is no way that both sides can 'win' on this one. Either the country goes after the problem and insists on a solution, or violence will continue to escalate and innocent lives will be taken. It's that simple. The one thing I do know is that if people choose to continue to allow violent mentally ill people to roam freely out of some bizarre, misplaced sentiment there is even more incentive for me to 'cling' to my guns. Like it or not, I will retain my right to shoot these people if I or my loved ones are attacked as part of the solution if the bunch with the misplaced sentiment can't figure out a more 'humane' solution to the problem.

We shoot rabid dogs, dangerous dogs, bears, alligators, cougars, wolves, coyotes, etc. if they attack humans. Well, if it's 'wrong' to lock up a violent and dangerous human, then the only option left is to shoot them as well. People had better get over some of that pc infection sooner rather than later on this one.






AdrianneHill
by Platinum Member on Apr. 11, 2013 at 7:35 PM
So now people aren't only unamerican for supporting gun control but they are also to blame for dismantling the mental health care system? I thought that was Reagan. He said he was doing it for the sake of personal freedom but it was obvious that it was done to increase profitability. Notice the jump in homelessness and the decrease in care that accompanied his emptying of the mental health hospitals.
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survivorinohio
by René on Apr. 11, 2013 at 7:42 PM

maybe just  monitoring not institutionalizing unless dangerous behavior is seen.  I think we need social workers making home visits on these people. CPS can why shouldnt mental health?

It would be cheaper than housing them anyway.  We went from housing a great many patients to expecting them to come to clinics and wait and many of the most ill got lost.

Quoting Carpy:

I did not say I do not agree with committing people but it is a hell of a lot more complex than that.  I am only talking mass killers.  They usually do not have a history of violence, there are indicators, but not violence.   That is why people say, "they just snapped".  How do you lock them up for something they have not yet done?

Quoting GeekMommi:

I'm saying this only to make a point not to start a fight but Carpy has said she doesn't agree with committing people and she is pro gun. So I don't think its that black and white.


Quoting Farmlady09:

As long as those who are mentally ill and violent are ignored, slip through the cracks, OR ~ and this might be the most important issue ~ allowed to refuse to medicate if they are adults, violence like this is not going to stop.

The biggest part of the problem is the lack of any decent mental health care. That does not excuse the other large part of the problem which is people who think it's a terrible thing to force treatment, including inhouse treatment, for those who are violent.

Since those who are against forcing treatment, or make excuses like 'it's not a crime to be mentally ill' or 'they can't help it' are also the ones who seem to push for gun control ~ I tend to consider that group as enablers as well as control freaks.

There is no way that both sides can 'win' on this one. Either the country goes after the problem and insists on a solution, or violence will continue to escalate and innocent lives will be taken. It's that simple. The one thing I do know is that if people choose to continue to allow violent mentally ill people to roam freely out of some bizarre, misplaced sentiment there is even more incentive for me to 'cling' to my guns. Like it or not, I will retain my right to shoot these people if I or my loved ones are attacked as part of the solution if the bunch with the misplaced sentiment can't figure out a more 'humane' solution to the problem.

We shoot rabid dogs, dangerous dogs, bears, alligators, cougars, wolves, coyotes, etc. if they attack humans. Well, if it's 'wrong' to lock up a violent and dangerous human, then the only option left is to shoot them as well. People had better get over some of that pc infection sooner rather than later on this one.





How far you go in life depends on your being: tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of both the weak and strong.  Because someday in life you would have been one or all of these.  GeorgeWashingtonCarver


Farmlady09
by Silver Member on Apr. 11, 2013 at 7:51 PM

I read ahead a few posts and I'm on my way out the door, so I'll try and make sense. You mentioned 'indicators' ~ and I agree that in some cases there are. Those are the people I'm talking about. I don't believe that they should be locked up because of any indicators, but I do believe those people should be on a no guns list that is nationwide. It would make a lot more sense, and do far more good, than putting people who are no danger and already law abiding on any list. And, while it may not be 'fair' to add those names to the list, it's even less 'fair' to label law abiding individuals who pose no threat just because they own a gun.

I'm pretty fed up with it. The government won't tell the truth and say outright it's about power and control ... and will use dead children to prey on stupid people to erase the second amendment one step at a time. I'm just as fed up with the touchy feel good crap that says you can't point a finger at someone who is mentally ill because they are 'protected' ... yes, protected by the SAME government and general stupid that wishes to control the rest of the population ONLY because that part is armed and a threat to the government. I'm just done playing the 'use nice words' game or being at all pc about it.

Those who ARE the problem are those who are mentally ill, on certain medications that are known to cause violent behavior (and should be banned from being prescribed at all except by a psychiatrist that is going to follow up on that individuals care and dosages). I've reached the point where I'm willing to say that those who are out stumping for this much stupid deserve to read about more dead people ~ although I do NOT feel that any innocent deserves to be injured of killed because of the thoughts/votes of stupid people.

In a perfect world, only those who demanded gun control instead of much better mental health care and a list of possibly dangerous people would be the ones getting a karma check.


Quoting Carpy:

Most of these people do not have a history of violence.  If they did then that is justification to lock them up already.  But then, they have already committed a crime.

Quoting Farmlady09:

As long as those who are mentally ill and violent are ignored, slip through the cracks, OR ~ and this might be the most important issue ~ allowed to refuse to medicate if they are adults, violence like this is not going to stop.

The biggest part of the problem is the lack of any decent mental health care. That does not excuse the other large part of the problem which is people who think it's a terrible thing to force treatment, including inhouse treatment, for those who are violent.

Since those who are against forcing treatment, or make excuses like 'it's not a crime to be mentally ill' or 'they can't help it' are also the ones who seem to push for gun control ~ I tend to consider that group as enablers as well as control freaks.

There is no way that both sides can 'win' on this one. Either the country goes after the problem and insists on a solution, or violence will continue to escalate and innocent lives will be taken. It's that simple. The one thing I do know is that if people choose to continue to allow violent mentally ill people to roam freely out of some bizarre, misplaced sentiment there is even more incentive for me to 'cling' to my guns. Like it or not, I will retain my right to shoot these people if I or my loved ones are attacked as part of the solution if the bunch with the misplaced sentiment can't figure out a more 'humane' solution to the problem.

We shoot rabid dogs, dangerous dogs, bears, alligators, cougars, wolves, coyotes, etc. if they attack humans. Well, if it's 'wrong' to lock up a violent and dangerous human, then the only option left is to shoot them as well. People had better get over some of that pc infection sooner rather than later on this one.



 

Carpy
by Ruby Member on Apr. 11, 2013 at 7:55 PM
1 mom liked this

To say that Reagan let the crazies loose is a bit of an uneducated statement on the subject.  If you would like a real understanding of what happened, start with the community mental health act, under JFK.

Quoting AdrianneHill:

So now people aren't only unamerican for supporting gun control but they are also to blame for dismantling the mental health care system? I thought that was Reagan. He said he was doing it for the sake of personal freedom but it was obvious that it was done to increase profitability. Notice the jump in homelessness and the decrease in care that accompanied his emptying of the mental health hospitals.


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