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Catholic and Support Gay Marriage? No Communion for You!

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Catholic and Support Gay Marriage? No Communion for You!

The leader of the Detroit Archdiocese has said that if Catholic congregants support same-sex marriage they should be denied Communion, and he’s not alone in that thinking.

The Archbishop of Detroit Allen Vigneron on Sunday told the Detroit Free Press that he agrees with a senior Catholic lawyer that those who support same-sex marriage should be denied Communion. Vigneron reportedly told the Free Press:

“For a Catholic to receive holy Communion and still deny the revelation Christ entrusted to the church is to try to say two contradictory things at once: ‘I believe the church offers the saving truth of Jesus, and I reject what the church teaches.’ In effect, they would contradict themselves. This sort of behavior would result in publicly renouncing one’s integrity and logically bring shame for a double-dealing that is not unlike perjury.”

For a number of years now, senior Catholic figures have threatened public officials, like Rep. Nancy Pelosi, with a denial of Communion over issues like pro-choice reforms, and now increasingly, this is applied to the issue of same-sex marriage.

Vigneron’s comments chase those of Edward Peters, a lawyer and adviser to the Vatican who teaches Catholic canon law at Sacred Heart Major Seminary in Detroit and who, in a blog post last month, wrote:

“The Catholic Church teaches, through its ordinary magisterium and with infallible certainty, that marriage exists only between one man and one woman [...] Catholics who promote “same-sex marriage” act contrary to Canon 209 § 1 and should not approach for holy Communion per Canon 916. Depending on the facts of the case, they also risk having holy Communion withheld from them under Canon 915, being rebuked under Canon 1339 § 2, and/or being sanctioned under Canon 1369 for gravely injuring good morals.”

Peters goes on to say those engaging in a same-sex marriage or those who have helped facilitate a same-sex marriage could also be barred from Communion.

Whether as damage control or an empty attempt to answer criticism, the diocese’s spokesperson, Joe Kohn, issued the following statement on Monday:

The archbishop’s focal point here is not “gay marriage”; it is a Catholic’s reception of Holy Communion. If a Catholic publicly opposes the church on a serious matter of the church’s teaching, any serious matter — for example, whether it be a rejection of the divinity of Christ, racist beliefs, support for abortion or support for redefining marriage — that would contradict the public affirmation they would make of the church’s beliefs by receiving Communion.

As the archbishop states, the pastors of the church are ready to assist Catholics to help them understand and avoid this conflict.

Vigneron called Catholics supporting same-sex marriage tantamount to perjury. You don’t get to throw around words like that and then pretend, as Kohn does above, that there’s no argument to be fought.

Now an initial reaction to this might be that the position, while odious, is perfectly within the realm of religious freedom of expression and that the church can define its own rules however it sees fit. Fine. Move on. Except that while in some circumstances that is true, there’s a problem here, isn’t there?

Increasingly, a majority of Catholic congregants support, if not same-sex marriage in the religious sense, marriage equality in the secular and legal sense. A recent poll says that support has now surpassed the majority mark at 54%. When asked about this, they often cite their religious beliefs. An example would be the aforementioned Nancy Pelosi, who has said her faith and her self-avowed relationship with God compels her to oppose discrimination.

So what of a religious right to express that aspect of one’s faith by supporting same-sex marriage?

Well, it seems the Catholic church is dealing with this by defining those people out of being Catholic and denying them Holy Communion, a key pillar for Catholic identity.

Technically the church can do whatever it wants in that regard, but one thing is certain. With positions like this, the church could shed support in swathes and elegantly marginalize itself in only a matter of decades because what the church thinks it means to be Catholic really doesn’t seem to be what its congregants think Catholicism is, and this is a possibly fatal disconnect.

In the short term at least, it makes the church’s staunch cries about how we must protect religious rights and rally against marriage equality sound even more hollow.

 

Related Reading:

Students Suspended From Catholic School For Pro-Choice Activism

Catholic Church Dumps Another Charity For LGBT Support

Catholic Hospital Denies Gay Man HIV Medicine



Read more: http://www.care2.com/causes/catholic-and-support-gay-marriage-no-communion-for-you.html#ixzz2QGJAFKdc
by on Apr. 12, 2013 at 11:10 AM
Replies (41-50):
blondekosmic15
by on Apr. 12, 2013 at 12:20 PM
3 moms liked this

 

Quoting MidwestMama55:

Untrue.  Having premarital sex is considered a sin in the Catholic church. But one can repent, endeavor to sin no more, ad be forgiven. Gay marriage is different as the participants are not remorseful, and continue to sin by living in that state daily.

    shake hand 

 

Quoting futureshock:


Quoting MidwestMama55:

Makes sense to me.  If you support gay marriage, you are not a Catholic and should not be receiving Holy Communion. Find a "Joe Bob's" church to be a part of.

Also, if you had a child out of wedlock you are not a Catholic, if you had premarital sex, etc., etc., etc., etc.

 

 

 

mehamil1
by Platinum Member on Apr. 12, 2013 at 12:21 PM

They are looking in your window and hacking into your computer. The church knows all! 

Quoting coolmommy2x:
How would the priest know what a congregant supports? Obviously a blog is public, if the person receiving Communion was wearing a pro-gay shirt I could understand.

I'm being serious. Our pastor doesn't know what we support.
pansyprincess
by Silver Member on Apr. 12, 2013 at 12:21 PM
2 moms liked this
Oh, I'm an atheist too ... I consider myself a recovering Catholic. But I grew up in a town that was 99% Roman Catholic ... all Italians. I don't know many people who weren't pro-choice, pro-gay marriage and had tons of pre-marital sex and used birth control. And i'm not talking about for others, I'm talking about for them.

Point is, this is stupid. There are millions of Catholics going out and doing things the church is anti. And the church isn't excommunicating them. But like I said, I wish the church WOULD do it. Then we could see how big this church REALLY was.
Quoting momtoscott:

Oh, I know that lots use these things, and lots of priests seem to agree to look the other way.   Furthermore, I don't know many Catholics, even if they follow the church's teachings on this, who are against birth control for people outside of Catholicism.      

It seems to me this story is different in degree, because they're talking about penalizing any Catholic who supports the concept of gay marriage for anyone, even for people outside the church.  That's a big leap, IMO, and I wondered whether the Church is being as strict in other areas where many of us are inclined to live and let live for those who aren't inside our belief system.  If not, then it seems inconsistent to make an exception for this one issue.  

I'm outside the religion, however, as an atheist, and my understanding may be incorrect.  

Quoting pansyprincess:

 Please ... so many Catholics use birth control, have had IUI or IVF or some other sort of fertility treatment that includes masturbation.  It is ridiculous to think that you can excommunicate everyone.  Although I would like them to ... maybe some Catholics would see that their church is a bunch of a-holes.

Many Catholics support gay marriage, they are pro-choice, in other words, they are normal rational human beings that love their god, but believe that god would be ok with these choices as well.  They get that some rules were made by man, and some by god, and they figure that the golden rule helps them discern the difference.  Or maybe they are just smart enough to say "But I don't agree with the church on this, and I don't have to.  I can continue my faith in god, and maintain my heritage of being a roman catholic, and not have to agree with everything they say, or buy it all hook, line and sinker."

Quoting momtoscott:

The picture brought back memories--in my church it was grape juice in the cups and little cubes of white bread.  

I dunno about the policy, though.  Are Catholics who support the use of, say, hormonal birth control by non-Catholics also in danger of excommunication?  What about Catholics who support IVF, again, for the use of non-Catholics who want a baby and need to use this means of conception?  That's equally against Catholic doctrine as far as I understand it.  





mehamil1
by Platinum Member on Apr. 12, 2013 at 12:22 PM

Blocko, if you do stuff OUTSIDE of the text box, then it'll be easier to understand. 

Quoting blondekosmic15:
Quoting MidwestMama55:

Untrue.  Having premarital sex is considered a sin in the Catholic church. But one can repent, endeavor to sin no more, ad be forgiven. Gay marriage is different as the participants are not remorseful, and continue to sin by living in that state daily.

    shake hand  

Quoting futureshock:
Quoting MidwestMama55:

Makes sense to me.  If you support gay marriage, you are not a Catholic and should not be receiving Holy Communion. Find a "Joe Bob's" church to be a part of.

Also, if you had a child out of wedlock you are not a Catholic, if you had premarital sex, etc., etc., etc., etc.

SuperChicken
by on Apr. 12, 2013 at 12:23 PM
1 mom liked this

Lol. 


Quoting 12hellokitty:

 

 

Quoting SuperChicken:

The Catholic Church has always demanded 100% obedience and discouraged individuals from thinking for themselves.  How many centuries did it take for them to allow the Bible to be printed in a language other than Latin, so that only the priests could actually read what was in the Bible and therefore no one would know if they were lying?  

 

You may want to read about the history of the printing press.


 

pansyprincess
by Silver Member on Apr. 12, 2013 at 12:24 PM

 Who said anything about distribution?  This article is that people who support gay marriage should not recieve the Eucharist.  I want to know why the church continued to give the Eucharist to priests that they knew molested boys, that they shuffled to other dioceses, that they covered up.  And then stood in the church and placed the wafer on the molesters tongue.  Funny how THOSE guys weren't excommunicated.


Quoting 12hellokitty:

 

Can you highlight where any of these priests are currently distributing Communion?

Quoting LucyMom08:

 So knowingly molesting children and ignoring priests who do so doesn't go against church teachings? Good to know :/

And here...

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/archdiocese+settles+Catholic+priest+abuse+cases/8087050/story.html

http://www.bishop-accountability.org/

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2013/04/13/world/catholic-priests-unmasked-god-doesnt-like-boys-who-cry/#.UWgtBRrD8_8

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/priestabuse/

 

 

This is just after a 5 minute Google search...let me know if you need more sources... 

Quoting 12hellokitty:

 

A Catholic can hold whatever opinion they chose, it's when they publicly speak out against Church teachings they should be denied Communion.  As for the priests do you have a source?

Quoting LucyMom08:

 Yet her point is still valid...those priests still get to deliver communion...those who have their own opinion which *doesn't* hurt anyone, don't get to receive communion...talk about priorities...

Quoting MidwestMama55:

Sad that you are such a hater. A very, very, very tiny number of priests were involved in those horrible acts. There are more schoolteachers that molest children than Catholic priests. There are more Protestant ministers that molest children than Catholic priests. There are more parents that molest children than Catholic priests. But for those who hate religion, they just see what they want to see.

 

Quoting mehamil1:

Support marriage equality, don't get to eat Jesus. 

Molest children, get to eat Jesus. 

Yeah, makes perfect sense. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

mehamil1
by Platinum Member on Apr. 12, 2013 at 12:24 PM
2 moms liked this

They can't do that. ALL of their followers would then be expelled. I try not to speak in sweeping generalizations, but having grown up in the Catholic church I know the vast majority, if not all of them, are doing stuff that is against the churches teachings. They can't go after everyone cause then no one would be left to financially support the parasite that is the Catholic church. 

Quoting pansyprincess:
Oh, I'm an atheist too ... I consider myself a recovering Catholic. But I grew up in a town that was 99% Roman Catholic ... all Italians. I don't know many people who weren't pro-choice, pro-gay marriage and had tons of pre-marital sex and used birth control. And i'm not talking about for others, I'm talking about for them.

Point is, this is stupid. There are millions of Catholics going out and doing things the church is anti. And the church isn't excommunicating them. But like I said, I wish the church WOULD do it. Then we could see how big this church REALLY was.
Quoting momtoscott:

Oh, I know that lots use these things, and lots of priests seem to agree to look the other way.   Furthermore, I don't know many Catholics, even if they follow the church's teachings on this, who are against birth control for people outside of Catholicism.      

It seems to me this story is different in degree, because they're talking about penalizing any Catholic who supports the concept of gay marriage for anyone, even for people outside the church.  That's a big leap, IMO, and I wondered whether the Church is being as strict in other areas where many of us are inclined to live and let live for those who aren't inside our belief system.  If not, then it seems inconsistent to make an exception for this one issue.  

I'm outside the religion, however, as an atheist, and my understanding may be incorrect.  

Quoting pansyprincess:

 Please ... so many Catholics use birth control, have had IUI or IVF or some other sort of fertility treatment that includes masturbation.  It is ridiculous to think that you can excommunicate everyone.  Although I would like them to ... maybe some Catholics would see that their church is a bunch of a-holes.

Many Catholics support gay marriage, they are pro-choice, in other words, they are normal rational human beings that love their god, but believe that god would be ok with these choices as well.  They get that some rules were made by man, and some by god, and they figure that the golden rule helps them discern the difference.  Or maybe they are just smart enough to say "But I don't agree with the church on this, and I don't have to.  I can continue my faith in god, and maintain my heritage of being a roman catholic, and not have to agree with everything they say, or buy it all hook, line and sinker."

Quoting momtoscott:

The picture brought back memories--in my church it was grape juice in the cups and little cubes of white bread.  

I dunno about the policy, though.  Are Catholics who support the use of, say, hormonal birth control by non-Catholics also in danger of excommunication?  What about Catholics who support IVF, again, for the use of non-Catholics who want a baby and need to use this means of conception?  That's equally against Catholic doctrine as far as I understand it.  

HopesNDreams
by on Apr. 12, 2013 at 12:26 PM
They have done this over abortion too.
Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
blondekosmic15
by on Apr. 12, 2013 at 12:26 PM
3 moms liked this

You must be in the state of grace when a Catholic receives the Holy Eucharist. A sacrilege is one of the worst sins you can commit. Lack of remorse & unrepentant you risk eternal separation from God. The Catholic Church and Sacred Scripture condemns homosexual acts. Immorality is non-negotiable. The pure of heart will see God. Jesus is merciful & forgiving IF we confess with true sorrow~

So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord.

1Corinthians 11:27

pansyprincess
by Silver Member on Apr. 12, 2013 at 12:27 PM
2 moms liked this

 I know!  That's why I would love to see it happen!  haha ... but I find it funny that they pick and choose these things to get up in arms over, while overlooking the others.  Hypocrisy at it's finest!  Oh, the RCC ...


Quoting mehamil1:

They can't do that. ALL of their followers would then be expelled. I try not to speak in sweeping generalizations, but having grown up in the Catholic church I know the vast majority, if not all of them, are doing stuff that is against the churches teachings. They can't go after everyone cause then no one would be left to financially support the parasite that is the Catholic church. 

Quoting pansyprincess:
Oh, I'm an atheist too ... I consider myself a recovering Catholic. But I grew up in a town that was 99% Roman Catholic ... all Italians. I don't know many people who weren't pro-choice, pro-gay marriage and had tons of pre-marital sex and used birth control. And i'm not talking about for others, I'm talking about for them.

Point is, this is stupid. There are millions of Catholics going out and doing things the church is anti. And the church isn't excommunicating them. But like I said, I wish the church WOULD do it. Then we could see how big this church REALLY was.
Quoting momtoscott:

Oh, I know that lots use these things, and lots of priests seem to agree to look the other way.   Furthermore, I don't know many Catholics, even if they follow the church's teachings on this, who are against birth control for people outside of Catholicism.      

It seems to me this story is different in degree, because they're talking about penalizing any Catholic who supports the concept of gay marriage for anyone, even for people outside the church.  That's a big leap, IMO, and I wondered whether the Church is being as strict in other areas where many of us are inclined to live and let live for those who aren't inside our belief system.  If not, then it seems inconsistent to make an exception for this one issue.  

I'm outside the religion, however, as an atheist, and my understanding may be incorrect.  

Quoting pansyprincess:

 Please ... so many Catholics use birth control, have had IUI or IVF or some other sort of fertility treatment that includes masturbation.  It is ridiculous to think that you can excommunicate everyone.  Although I would like them to ... maybe some Catholics would see that their church is a bunch of a-holes.

Many Catholics support gay marriage, they are pro-choice, in other words, they are normal rational human beings that love their god, but believe that god would be ok with these choices as well.  They get that some rules were made by man, and some by god, and they figure that the golden rule helps them discern the difference.  Or maybe they are just smart enough to say "But I don't agree with the church on this, and I don't have to.  I can continue my faith in god, and maintain my heritage of being a roman catholic, and not have to agree with everything they say, or buy it all hook, line and sinker."

Quoting momtoscott:

The picture brought back memories--in my church it was grape juice in the cups and little cubes of white bread.  

I dunno about the policy, though.  Are Catholics who support the use of, say, hormonal birth control by non-Catholics also in danger of excommunication?  What about Catholics who support IVF, again, for the use of non-Catholics who want a baby and need to use this means of conception?  That's equally against Catholic doctrine as far as I understand it.  


 

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