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New Pope Continues fight against American Nuns

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Pope Francis reiterates 'radical feminist' criticism of US nuns' group

Max Rossi / Reuters

Pope Francis, shown Sunday, reaffirmed the church's official criticism of the group representing most U.S. nuns as having 'radical feminist' doctrine.

VATICAN CITY -- Pope Francis has reaffirmed the Vatican's criticism of a body that represents U.S. nuns that the Church said was tainted by "radical" feminism, dashing hopes that he might take a softer stand with the sisters.

Francis's predecessor, Benedict, decreed that the Leadership Conference of Women Religious (LCWR), a group that represents more than 80 percent of the 57,000 Catholic nuns in the United States, must change its ways, a ruling that the Vatican said on Monday still applied.

Last year, a Vatican report said the LCWR had "serious doctrinal problems" and promoted "radical feminist themes incompatible with the Catholic faith," criticizing it for taking a soft line on issues such as birth control and homosexuality.

The nuns received wide support among American Catholics, particularly on the liberal wing of the church, as LCWR leaders travelled around the United States in a bus to defend themselves against the accusations.

On Monday the group's leaders met Archbishop Gerhard Ludwig Mueller, the new head of the Vatican's doctrinal department, and Archbishop Peter Sartain of Seattle, who has been assigned by the Vatican to correct the group's perceived failings.

"Archbishop Mueller informed the (LCWR) presidency that he had recently discussed the doctrinal assessment with Pope Francis, who reaffirmed the findings of the assessment and the program of reform, " the Vatican's statement said.

The Vatican reminded the group that it would "remain under the direction of the Holy See," the statement said.

It was the nuns' first meeting with Mueller, who succeeded American Cardinal William Levada as head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. Levada, who retired last year, oversaw the Vatican's investigation of the U.S. nuns.

A statement from the LCWR said the "conversation was open and frank" and added: "We pray that these conversations may bear fruit for the good of the Church."

In April 2012, the doctrinal department criticized the LCWR for challenging bishops and for being "silent on the right to life," saying it had failed to make the "Biblical view of family life and human sexuality" a central plank of its agenda.

The nuns supported President Barack Obama's health-care reform, part of which makes insurance coverage of birth control mandatory, while U.S. bishops opposed it.

Many nuns said the Vatican's report misunderstood their intentions and undervalued their work for social justice.

Supporters of the nuns said the women had helped the image of the church in the United States at a time when it was engulfed in scandal over sexual abuse of minors by priests. They were praised by many fellow Catholics and the media for their work with the poor and sick.

Monday's Vatican statement expressed gratitude for the "great contribution" American Catholic nuns had made in teaching and caring for the sick and poor.

Neon Washable Paint

by on Apr. 15, 2013 at 3:42 PM
Replies (41-50):
Billiejeens
by Gold Member on Apr. 16, 2013 at 8:09 AM

 

Dumb, just dumb.

Quoting NWP:

It does seem that now days helping the poor is considered a liberal idea.

Quoting soonergirl980:

I don't understand the expectation of people that the Pope who is the head of the Catholic Church arguably a very conservative religion would change its doctrine for social liberal ideas.



 

NWP
by guerrilla girl on Apr. 16, 2013 at 8:11 AM

I understand. We have found an Episcopal congregation that we absolutely love. I wouldn't trade it for the world and there are no members who adhere to the doctrine of exclusion and hate. It is a wonderful, spiritual community that my children also love.

Quoting Debmomto2girls:

I have been Catholic for 43 years and have one foot out the door. It is because if people like you and others in this board that have helped me start to leave. I have a dd still in Caholic school and that is the only thing keeping me there at the moment. I understand the catholic church and I can no longer reconcile what I consider hate with what I believe in religion. For years and years, I justified my belonging by decidin it was okay to just privately believe what I believe. I love the community aspect of my parish. I love the priest at my church. Everyone in my community goes to this parish. It is not a preachy parish. So, as long as my kids are involved, I will not rip them out of this community of people they grew up with. However, I no longer can personally reconcile what I believe with what the Church as been doing. My oldest dd feels the same. My youngest ones still goes to the parish school and loves it. I will not take that away from her. I get angry everyday that this church has ruine religion for me for a lot of reasons I won't go into on here

Quoting VeronicaTex:

For all you haters, and there are quite a few on this post, you would need to understand, first of all, the Catholic Church.

Very few of you do:  it is evident by your callous remarks.

To understand the Papacy, you need to understand that Jesus chose men to be his apostles: Peter being the first Pope, to now Pope Francis: Men.

I now want to focus on women:  specifically nuns:  they take vows to be brides of Jesus, so to speak.

That means, they are subject to the authority of Rome.

What these particular women have done is to upset the balance, of what Jesus actually instituted.

This group is being defiant.

No one will deny that to help the poor is being useful and necessary.

However, this group is using it as an excuse to push their own agenda:  which includes birth control and homosexuality.

It is no surprise that "80% of the 57,000 nuns in the United States support this movement.

It is a sign of the times....a decline in morals and the rise of liberalism that has swept this nation, supported by the Liberal Democratic administrations of this country.

You truly would have to be a Roman Catholic, understanding how the Catholic Church on earth was begun by Jesus Christ to understand the severity of this situation.

I agree totally with the Pope.

Pope Francis is obviously a Pope whom was elected by men who prayed for the guidance of the Holy Spirit in this papal election.

They did NOT select this particular Pope on the basis of what the people of the world might be clamoring for, but on the basis of what God wants for a leader in the Catholic Church.

Veronica 



Neon Washable Paint

NWP
by guerrilla girl on Apr. 16, 2013 at 8:15 AM

Once again we agree Billie.

The new conservative philosophy that considers helping the poor to be a liberal concept is really dumb. I would add stupid and ignorant to that list as well.

And this current conservative misconception extends to much more than just their ignorant idea of helping the poor, but to excluding most of the population in their little conservative clubhouse too. This philosophy is biting them in the butt as we speak.

Quoting Billiejeens:


Dumb, just dumb.

Quoting NWP:

It does seem that now days helping the poor is considered a liberal idea.

Quoting soonergirl980:

I don't understand the expectation of people that the Pope who is the head of the Catholic Church arguably a very conservative religion would change its doctrine for social liberal ideas.





Neon Washable Paint

Billiejeens
by Gold Member on Apr. 16, 2013 at 8:16 AM
1 mom liked this

 

Wow, your father really did a number on you didn't he.

Quoting NWP:

Girls who don't do what they are told by the man in charge are radical feminists who need punishing.

Quoting FromAtoZ:

All hail the men while we continue to push women down. 




 

Billiejeens
by Gold Member on Apr. 16, 2013 at 8:17 AM
1 mom liked this

 

 I like it when you are funny.

Quoting NWP:

Once again we agree Billie.

The new conservative philosophy that considers helping the poor to be a liberal concept is really dumb. I would add stupid and ignorant to that list as well.

And this current conservative misconception extends to much more than just their ignorant idea of helping the poor, but to excluding most of the population in their little conservative clubhouse too. This philosophy is biting them in the butt as we speak.

Quoting Billiejeens:

 

Dumb, just dumb.

Quoting NWP:

It does seem that now days helping the poor is considered a liberal idea.

Quoting soonergirl980:

I don't understand the expectation of people that the Pope who is the head of the Catholic Church arguably a very conservative religion would change its doctrine for social liberal ideas.


 

 



 

candlegal
by Judy on Apr. 16, 2013 at 8:17 AM

They are still there, it is just that most of them don't wear the habit anymore.  You probably wouldn't recognize them if you saw them.

Quoting DestinyRoseLC:

I had mentioned to my mom a while ago if she had noticed that you just don't see nuns anymore. And she agreed with me. As a child and teen I remember seeing them in the local playgrounds, markets, walking the streets, interacting with the community. Wonder where they all went.

Quoting LauraKW:

Just a what if, but what happens to the Catholic Church in the US if 80% of the nuns left the church? How many nuns are there in the world?


DestinyRoseLC
by Bronze Member on Apr. 16, 2013 at 8:20 AM
Why would they change what they wear?

Quoting candlegal:

They are still there, it is just that most of them don't wear the habit anymore.  You probably wouldn't recognize them if you saw them.

Quoting DestinyRoseLC:

I had mentioned to my mom a while ago if she had noticed that you just don't see nuns anymore. And she agreed with me. As a child and teen I remember seeing them in the local playgrounds, markets, walking the streets, interacting with the community. Wonder where they all went.



Quoting LauraKW:

Just a what if, but what happens to the Catholic Church in the US if 80% of the nuns left the church? How many nuns are there in the world?


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candlegal
by Judy on Apr. 16, 2013 at 8:21 AM

She has already said it, they have not been instructed to stop helping the poor.

Quoting NWP:

LOL. My ears and eyes are wide open.

Quoting candlegal:

shh, that isn't what she wants to hear.

Quoting 12hellokitty:


   The sisters were not instructed to stop helping the poor.  They were instructed to stop teaching radical feminism.

Quoting NWP:

I have been following this story for a couple of years now, long before this pope. The nuns have been doing the same thing they have been doing for the past 40 years.

The previous pope instructed the American nuns to redirect their missions and focus away from their current work of helping the poor to take up the Vatican's current political agenda against gay marriage and choice. The nuns protested and refused to pull resources away from their help with poor communities to take on these political directives, claiming they are doing the work of God through their poverty missions, as directed in the Bible.

It is a fascinating story of should the nuns follow the work and word of the Lord as they themselves are biblical scholars, or the political mission of the man currently in charge of the Vatican. Many articles have been written about it and I have posted several.

Folks have stated that these nuns should do as they are told because they are Catholic, but the Catholic leadership has been off target before.

The Vatican this week attacked America’s nuns for spending too much time working to help the poor and fight poverty, and not spending enough time attacking same-sex marriage. The criticism, considered formal disciplinary action against  the Leadership Conference of Women Religious (LCWR), which represents over 55,000 nuns in the United States, also labeled as “grave and a matter of serious concern,” that the nuns are not sufficiently denouncing abortion, Obamacare, and women’s ordination.

“The directive, which follows a two-year investigation by Rome, also comes as the Vatican appeared ready to welcome a controversial right-wing splinter group of Catholic traditionalists back into the fold, possibly by giving the group a special status so that they can continue to espouse their old-line rites and beliefs,” The Washington Post reports


Quoting soonergirl980:


Well considering this Pope is known in his country as a huge supporter of the poor and the fact the article posted has nothing to do with the poor I think your comment is way off base. I was refering to the birth control and the church's stance on homosexuality.

Quoting NWP:

It does seem that now days helping the poor is considered a liberal idea.

Quoting soonergirl980:

I don't understand the expectation of people that the Pope who is the head of the Catholic Church arguably a very conservative religion would change its doctrine for social liberal ideas.










candlegal
by Judy on Apr. 16, 2013 at 8:26 AM
1 mom liked this

Some still wear the habit


FYI: Why nuns stopped wearing the habit...

We've all heard lay people ask a thousand times: "Why did the nuns stop wearing their habits?"

Then there's always somebody in the group who answers: "It was Vatican II." But the truth is it was actually a "stretching" of Vatican II.

Be informed - this is the line the orders used to dump their religious garb:

"17. Since they are signs of a consecrated life, religious habits should be simple and modest, at once poor and becoming. They should meet the requirements of health and be suited to the circumstances of time and place as well as to the services required by those who wear them. Habits of men and women which do not correspond to those norms are to be changed."

-Vatican Council II, Decree on the Appropriate Renewal of the Religious Life (Perfectae Caritatis), 1965.

Insane, right? It was the sixties and they "stretched" this into meaning no habit or not much of one.

Quoting DestinyRoseLC:

Why would they change what they wear?

Quoting candlegal:

They are still there, it is just that most of them don't wear the habit anymore.  You probably wouldn't recognize them if you saw them.

Quoting DestinyRoseLC:

I had mentioned to my mom a while ago if she had noticed that you just don't see nuns anymore. And she agreed with me. As a child and teen I remember seeing them in the local playgrounds, markets, walking the streets, interacting with the community. Wonder where they all went.



Quoting LauraKW:

Just a what if, but what happens to the Catholic Church in the US if 80% of the nuns left the church? How many nuns are there in the world?



DestinyRoseLC
by Bronze Member on Apr. 16, 2013 at 8:34 AM
Ok so according to the article the Vatican is pissed because American nuns have choose to put more efforts into helping the poor and community and less into the family aspect of the CC "biblical view of family life and sexuality"
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