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Gun control: President Obama’s biggest loss

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Never before had President Barack Obama put the moral force and political muscle of his presidency behind an issue quite this big — and lost quite this badly. The president, shaken to the core by the massacre of 26 innocents at Sandy Hook Elementary School, broke his own informal “Obama Rule” — of never leaning into an issue without a clear path to victory — first by pushing for a massive gun control package no one expected to pass, and then sticking through it even as he retrenched to a relatively modest bipartisan bill mandating national background checks on gun purchases. Continue Reading Text Size - + reset Obama: 'Shameful day in Washington' Why Obama, Congress can't do all Latest on POLITICO Playbook: TIME 100 Rove to Sebelius: 'Nice try' Clinton lauds Boston 'volunteerism' High hopes for energy bill Shuster's road to big money 'Medical mecca' Boston was ready It was a bitter defeat for a president accustomed to winning, a second-term downer that may — or may not — foreshadow the slow decline suffered by so many of his predecessors. Obama seems to have the public behind him, but it illustrated his less-than-Johnsonian powers of personal persuasion, the possible shortcomings of his decision to wait a month after the killings to present a plan and above all the limits of his go-to “outside” strategy of taking his case directly to the American people. (Also on POLITICO: Obama laments "shameful day") More than anything, it was an emotional blow to Obama, who was as irritated at the four members of his own party as he was at the 90 percent of Republicans who defeated the bill. One administration official told POLITICO the White House was especially disappointed with Sen. Heidi Heitkamp (D-N.D), the only dissenting Democrat not up for re-election next year, who refused to go along with the bill even after White House chief of staff Denis McDonough visited her office to make Obama’s case on Tuesday. (Also on POLITICO: Gun bill hits brick wall in Senate) Still, officials believed Heitkamp would have flipped if they had gotten closer to the 60 votes they needed. “The president was tremendously committed and emotionally engaged. I watched the president with these families. He was there for them and really felt it,” said Sen. Richard Blumenthal, a Connecticut Democrat who worked closely with the White House in the aftermath of the worst school shooting in the history of his state. (Also on POLITICO: Senate gun control roll call vote: Senators who bucked their party) “Background checks will happen,” he added, minutes after the vote. “This outcome is a delay, not a defeat.” Added Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.): “I never saw a president fight so hard, a vice president, never on any issue… It shows us the cowardice of the Senate.” In the end, however, moderates and conservatives in the upper chamber said they simply couldn’t deal with a flurry of progressive issues at once — from gay marriage to immigration to guns. The other three Democratic “no” votes — Max Baucus of Montana, Mark Pryor of Arkansas and Mark Begich of Alaska — were never really in play, sources familiar with the situation told POLITICO. Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/04/gun-control-vote-obamas-biggest-loss-90244.html#ixzz2QoSQy6UN
by on Apr. 18, 2013 at 7:19 AM
Replies (21-30):
talia-mom
by Gold Member on Apr. 18, 2013 at 8:47 AM
1 mom liked this

Will never happen.  And if did, we really should go after car manufacturers instead.


Quoting Seasidegirl:

I would not say it is "cry baby" to be upset over the massacre of the young children at Sandy Hook. This is simple stuff -- freaking background checks for internet and gun show purchases.

Gun control laws WERE in effect -- they expired. It's not like the big Obama Boogy Man is out to take away people's legal handguns or hunting rifles. People have bought into the fear-mongering of the $$$$$ NRA.

I have an idea:  Each family who loses a family member to gun violence should sue the gun and ammo maker. there has got to be some attorney willing to take on something like this. Hit them where it hurts -- in the pockets (just like the anti-tobacco lawsuits did).

Sickening.




candlegal
by Judy on Apr. 18, 2013 at 8:48 AM

Are you serious?  Call 1 800 Wah Wah and grow up

Quoting lga1965:

Religious sect ? I'm not religious .
I'm not pushing my views at all but clearly YOU are ...on me...in an inappropriate,harsh manner when you tell me to go away.


Quoting Billiejeens:



Sawry, I forget your capability for discourse sometimes, my bad.


Rephrased - you are in the 4% (that is very small the whole would be 100%) of people that are for additional gun control. You are like a small religious sect trying to push your views onto the rest of us.


While you are welcome and even encouraged to stay and participate in the discussion, I am asking you to not continually push your religious sect views on us.


Quoting lga1965:

So you are saying that if my opinion is different from yours that I have to go away ?
Isn't this a Forum where everyone is allowed to have their own opinions ?
Is it appropriate for you to tell me I have to go away .....and I didn't even address my comment to you personally ?
It really is not fair, not socially acceptable .



Quoting Billiejeens:








Quoting lga1965:



 “This outcome is a delay, not a defeat.” Added Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.): “I never saw a president fight so hard, a vice president, never on any issue… It shows us the cowardice of the Senate.” In the end, however, moderates and conservatives in the upper chamber said they simply couldn’t deal with a flurry of progressive issues at once — from gay marriage to immigration to guns. The other three Democratic “no” votes — Max Baucus of Montana, Mark Pryor of Arkansas and Mark Begich of Alaska — were never really in play, sources familiar with the situation told POLITICO.



****************



This is true. It's not over yet. My state senators were with the President and I am proud of them. Those of us who care about people more than guns will continue to believe that gun control will become a reality.



4%, you are in the 4% of the country that thinks additional gun control is important - go away.









Seasidegirl
by Gold Member on Apr. 18, 2013 at 8:48 AM

 Actually, a ban on automatic weapons would have taken care of that. He could not have done as much damage with only a handgun or even a rifle. The rapid-fire of an automatic weapon is what tore those poor children apart.

I agree it is a mental health issue. My difference is I think it is a mental health issue, a violence issue, a violent society issue AND a gun issue, and probably a few more things.

I think there needs to be a comprehensive plan to stop violence. Of course, it cannot be done only with gun control laws. But I do believe that is a step. One step. We have got to do something.


Quoting Britty1987:

 

Exactly!  How many laws did the Newtown shooter break?  I don't think one more would've made a difference in his choice. 

Quoting kaylamom2004:

Gun control is NOT the issue.

If they want to fix the problem, concentrate on mental health!

 

 


 

Seasidegirl
by Gold Member on Apr. 18, 2013 at 8:50 AM

 

Never say never. who would have dreamed Big Tobacco would have been taken on?  And car manufacturers get sued all the time.

Quoting talia-mom:

Will never happen.  And if did, we really should go after car manufacturers instead.

 

Quoting Seasidegirl:

I would not say it is "cry baby" to be upset over the massacre of the young children at Sandy Hook. This is simple stuff -- freaking background checks for internet and gun show purchases.

Gun control laws WERE in effect -- they expired. It's not like the big Obama Boogy Man is out to take away people's legal handguns or hunting rifles. People have bought into the fear-mongering of the $$$$$ NRA.

I have an idea:  Each family who loses a family member to gun violence should sue the gun and ammo maker. there has got to be some attorney willing to take on something like this. Hit them where it hurts -- in the pockets (just like the anti-tobacco lawsuits did).

Sickening.

 

 

 


 

talia-mom
by Gold Member on Apr. 18, 2013 at 8:51 AM
1 mom liked this

Except smoking isn't protected by the Constitution.

If you don't like guns, don't get one.   But stop pushing an agenda to limit what others can have.


Quoting Seasidegirl:


Never say never. who would have dreamed Big Tobacco would have been taken on?  And car manufacturers get sued all the time.

Quoting talia-mom:

Will never happen.  And if did, we really should go after car manufacturers instead.


Quoting Seasidegirl:

I would not say it is "cry baby" to be upset over the massacre of the young children at Sandy Hook. This is simple stuff -- freaking background checks for internet and gun show purchases.

Gun control laws WERE in effect -- they expired. It's not like the big Obama Boogy Man is out to take away people's legal handguns or hunting rifles. People have bought into the fear-mongering of the $$$$$ NRA.

I have an idea:  Each family who loses a family member to gun violence should sue the gun and ammo maker. there has got to be some attorney willing to take on something like this. Hit them where it hurts -- in the pockets (just like the anti-tobacco lawsuits did).

Sickening.








candlegal
by Judy on Apr. 18, 2013 at 8:54 AM

This is so frustrating, I can't quote anyone right now.  We need to go after the people that make hammers and clubs before gun manufacturers since more people are killed by hammers than guns.

Billiejeens
by Gold Member on Apr. 18, 2013 at 8:54 AM
ouchy
Quoting talia-mom:


Pot meet kettle.

Quoting lga1965:

Religious sect ? I'm not religious .
I'm not pushing my views at all but clearly YOU are ...on me...in an inappropriate,harsh manner when you tell me to go away.


Quoting Billiejeens:



Sawry, I forget your capability for discourse sometimes, my bad.


Rephrased - you are in the 4% (that is very small the whole would be 100%) of people that are for additional gun control. You are like a small religious sect trying to push your views onto the rest of us.


While you are welcome and even encouraged to stay and participate in the discussion, I am asking you to not continually push your religious sect views on us.


Quoting lga1965:

So you are saying that if my opinion is different from yours that I have to go away ?
Isn't this a Forum where everyone is allowed to have their own opinions ?
Is it appropriate for you to tell me I have to go away .....and I didn't even address my comment to you personally ?
It really is not fair, not socially acceptable .



Quoting Billiejeens:








Quoting lga1965:



 “This outcome is a delay, not a defeat.” Added Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.): “I never saw a president fight so hard, a vice president, never on any issue… It shows us the cowardice of the Senate.” In the end, however, moderates and conservatives in the upper chamber said they simply couldn’t deal with a flurry of progressive issues at once — from gay marriage to immigration to guns. The other three Democratic “no” votes — Max Baucus of Montana, Mark Pryor of Arkansas and Mark Begich of Alaska — were never really in play, sources familiar with the situation told POLITICO.



****************



This is true. It's not over yet. My state senators were with the President and I am proud of them. Those of us who care about people more than guns will continue to believe that gun control will become a reality.



4%, you are in the 4% of the country that thinks additional gun control is important - go away.











Seasidegirl
by Gold Member on Apr. 18, 2013 at 8:54 AM

 The only limits proposed are that convicted felons and mentally ill people cannot own a gun and that automatic weapons, which are used only in combat, are banned.

Otherwise, you're free to stock up on arms and ammo.

Does the right to bear arms mean I can own a rocket launcher as well? Where do we draw the line?


Quoting talia-mom:

Except smoking isn't protected by the Constitution.

If you don't like guns, don't get one.   But stop pushing an agenda to limit what others can have.

 

Quoting Seasidegirl:

 

Never say never. who would have dreamed Big Tobacco would have been taken on?  And car manufacturers get sued all the time.

Quoting talia-mom:

Will never happen.  And if did, we really should go after car manufacturers instead.

 

Quoting Seasidegirl:

I would not say it is "cry baby" to be upset over the massacre of the young children at Sandy Hook. This is simple stuff -- freaking background checks for internet and gun show purchases.

Gun control laws WERE in effect -- they expired. It's not like the big Obama Boogy Man is out to take away people's legal handguns or hunting rifles. People have bought into the fear-mongering of the $$$$$ NRA.

I have an idea:  Each family who loses a family member to gun violence should sue the gun and ammo maker. there has got to be some attorney willing to take on something like this. Hit them where it hurts -- in the pockets (just like the anti-tobacco lawsuits did).

Sickening.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

Britty1987
by Member on Apr. 18, 2013 at 8:54 AM


 I see what you mean, but banning them would be awful to enforce.  There are so many out there, and so many more being bought because of all this.  I know of several peope who recently bought one.  The ammo is so hard to find, so when people do find it they are paying out the wazoo!  It's going to get messy if they do start a ban.  Not saying it's bad, just that it will take time, and may have unforseen reprocussions in an awful way :(

Quoting Seasidegirl:

 Actually, a ban on automatic weapons would have taken care of that. He could not have done as much damage with only a handgun or even a rifle. The rapid-fire of an automatic weapon is what tore those poor children apart.

I agree it is a mental health issue. My difference is I think it is a mental health issue, a violence issue, a violent society issue AND a gun issue, and probably a few more things.

I think there needs to be a comprehensive plan to stop violence. Of course, it cannot be done only with gun control laws. But I do believe that is a step. One step. We have got to do something.


Quoting Britty1987:


Exactly!  How many laws did the Newtown shooter break?  I don't think one more would've made a difference in his choice. 

Quoting kaylamom2004:

Gun control is NOT the issue.

If they want to fix the problem, concentrate on mental health!







Donnah118
by on Apr. 18, 2013 at 8:57 AM
1 mom liked this

I am not really seeing what the issue is. if you want to own a gun you submit to a mandatory extensive background check. What is the big deal here? Makes sense to me.

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