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I know we've had this discussion multiple times but a recently deleted thread brought the topic back up.

Plus, we have some new faces so I'm curious: what (in your mind) constitutes bullying, especially here on Cafemom?
Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
by on Apr. 18, 2013 at 12:14 PM
Replies (101-109):
Friday
by HRH of MJ on Apr. 19, 2013 at 6:59 PM
2 moms liked this


Quoting LindaClement:

I agree: communication can be vile beyond belief without once uttering anything Anglo-saxon, and completely neutral with nothing but obscenities...

Quoting Friday:


Quoting candlegal:

can we add limited vocabulary and foul mouth to that list?

Quoting Carpy:

It doesn't much bother me.  I know what I am and it is not what those couple of people accuse me of.  But I would call it bullying.  Just keep in mind what they say about bullies.

Bullies typically share common characteristics such as aggressiveness, hostility, poor social skills and poor judgment. They are often hiding deep insecurities, propelling them to dominate and pick on those whom they envy.

Quoting punky3175:

Ya know - I was thinking about you this morning when reflecting on someone's definition here about bullying on CM being about following one posted from thread to thread and bringing up unrelated stuff. I agree that could be a form of bullying but my question to you is: does that make you feel bullied or just severely annoyed?

Quoting Carpy:

I'm a murder profiteer who enjoys chldren dying from my product.

Quoting romalove:


Quoting futureshock:


Quoting romalove:

I think people have trouble discerning between discussion, debate, and bullying.

Disagreeing is not bullying.


Exactly.  Disagreeing even when it occurs between the same people frequently is not bullying.

I know.  I have been told I am a bully frequently around here because of my "disagreements" LOL.




How is foul language bullying? Words only have the power we give them.


Exactly. I've seen some 'good & righteous' women here say seriously foul things w/o swearing at all.

 


Thank God......it's Friday!!!

survivorinohio
by René on Apr. 19, 2013 at 7:28 PM

But it should be supported.  "Thats what I believe so there" sure isnt going to lend itself to credibility :)

Quoting LindaClement:

Debate can also be about opinions, thoughts, experiences and ideas --not just factoids.

Opinions (ideas, thoughts, etc...) can all be refuted, discussed, dissected --without turning into berating someone.

Quoting survivorinohio:

There is a huge difference between debating and berating.  Somewhere in that the debate turns to an argument. 

Debate is done with cited facts and opinions based on fact where as an argument encompasses a lot more emotion, opinion, perceptions etc.

Quoting awsmnss26:


When you say people are way to sensitive you are somewhat right. But where do you draw the line. There are people... adults and children alike who go through awful things every day only to have to deal with it online too. One rude comment online could send people over the edge. Not to say that its anyones fault but these days I think we need to be a little more compassionate. Yes if someone is being outwardly rude give it back to them. But I feel like a lot of people over do it when it comes to putting others down about what they say or who they percieve them to be. Its a fine line from debating and berating.

good


Quoting ReadWriteLuv:

I think people are way too sensitive and the term "bullying" is vastly over used.

I don't think anything here constitutes bullying until someone crosses the line and starts to take things into the real world. No one needs to be looking up anyone here's personal info, like their home address and phone number. No one needs to stalk people's other social media accounts or follow them around to other message board type websites and trash talk them there.

Perhaps not in this group, but in others, there have been cases of people real life stalking other members, whether it be one person or groups of people that do it. They try to ruin people's lives. To me, that's bullying. Leave the disagreements here.






How far you go in life depends on your being: tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of both the weak and strong.  Because someday in life you would have been one or all of these.  GeorgeWashingtonCarver


LindaClement
by Linda on Apr. 19, 2013 at 7:30 PM
1 mom liked this

It can be discussed, though --where someone found the idea, how it developed, what they've seen that suggests that it's accurate, they're all valid 'support'...

Quoting survivorinohio:

But it should be supported.  "Thats what I believe so there" sure isnt going to lend itself to credibility :)

Quoting LindaClement:

Debate can also be about opinions, thoughts, experiences and ideas --not just factoids.

Opinions (ideas, thoughts, etc...) can all be refuted, discussed, dissected --without turning into berating someone.

Quoting survivorinohio:

There is a huge difference between debating and berating.  Somewhere in that the debate turns to an argument. 

Debate is done with cited facts and opinions based on fact where as an argument encompasses a lot more emotion, opinion, perceptions etc.

Quoting awsmnss26:


When you say people are way to sensitive you are somewhat right. But where do you draw the line. There are people... adults and children alike who go through awful things every day only to have to deal with it online too. One rude comment online could send people over the edge. Not to say that its anyones fault but these days I think we need to be a little more compassionate. Yes if someone is being outwardly rude give it back to them. But I feel like a lot of people over do it when it comes to putting others down about what they say or who they percieve them to be. Its a fine line from debating and berating.

good


Quoting ReadWriteLuv:

I think people are way too sensitive and the term "bullying" is vastly over used.

I don't think anything here constitutes bullying until someone crosses the line and starts to take things into the real world. No one needs to be looking up anyone here's personal info, like their home address and phone number. No one needs to stalk people's other social media accounts or follow them around to other message board type websites and trash talk them there.

Perhaps not in this group, but in others, there have been cases of people real life stalking other members, whether it be one person or groups of people that do it. They try to ruin people's lives. To me, that's bullying. Leave the disagreements here.







diospira
by Bronze Member on Apr. 19, 2013 at 8:30 PM



Quoting Billiejeens:


The whole tin-foil hat thing is just annoying.

It means the poster is closed minded to any view that is not in line with their preconceived notions.

A lot of people are like that, but when one posts the hat, it expresses there fondness for their own closed mindedness, not really pretty for them, but not bullying.

Quoting diospira:


What I am saying is that offering a tin-foil hat to someone is not expressing an opinion and is not contributing to the discussion. It is a way for people who feel threatened by certain facts or topics to label and ridicule the person who is making them feel uncomfortable or threatening their paradigm.


In the case of the post we are discussing, the replies pretty uniformly ridiculed the OP instead of addressing the facts at hand. Since we are not computer screens conversing here but human beings, she said she felt that she was being "bullied" and deleted the post. Embarrassing or intimidating someone into fleeing or submitting is a form of bullying.


I am not familiar with the OP´s history in this group, but certainly in this instance the result was to quell free speech, whether or not it was intended. She threatened the groupthink** mentality and was quashed.


**Groupthink is a psychological phenomenon that can occur in groups of people. Rather than critically evaluating information, the group members begin to form quick opinions that match the group consensus.








I agree with what you say, well put. It is a sign of a closed mind. It definitely says way more about the poster than their target. I think that is a very good way to think about it and to not take it personally.


The part I would expand upon is the last.  In this case, "the hat" wasn´t posted just once but over and over and over (the poster was evidently expressing extreme fondness of her own closed-mindedness:-)  Most if not all responses were in the same vein, making fun of the OP or the fact that she could even entertain the thought she expressed.


This was perceived by the OP as "bullying" and it had the effect of bullying, since she felt compelled to delete. Ridiculing is a tactic used to bully others and suppress their views.


I think whether the behavior is perceived as bullying by the recipient is key. Since here that was not unreasonably the case, it should be taken into consideration whether or not we would feel the same way ourselves.









awsmnss26
by on Apr. 20, 2013 at 2:30 PM


Yes but I said "there is a fine line" not there is no difference. A debate can turn into an argument very quickly. especially when people are mean spirited and decide to pick on what other people say.

Quoting survivorinohio:

There is a huge difference between debating and berating.  Somewhere in that the debate turns to an argument. 

Debate is done with cited facts and opinions based on fact where as an argument encompasses a lot more emotion, opinion, perceptions etc.

Quoting awsmnss26:


When you say people are way to sensitive you are somewhat right. But where do you draw the line. There are people... adults and children alike who go through awful things every day only to have to deal with it online too. One rude comment online could send people over the edge. Not to say that its anyones fault but these days I think we need to be a little more compassionate. Yes if someone is being outwardly rude give it back to them. But I feel like a lot of people over do it when it comes to putting others down about what they say or who they percieve them to be. Its a fine line from debating and berating.

good


Quoting ReadWriteLuv:

I think people are way too sensitive and the term "bullying" is vastly over used.

I don't think anything here constitutes bullying until someone crosses the line and starts to take things into the real world. No one needs to be looking up anyone here's personal info, like their home address and phone number. No one needs to stalk people's other social media accounts or follow them around to other message board type websites and trash talk them there.

Perhaps not in this group, but in others, there have been cases of people real life stalking other members, whether it be one person or groups of people that do it. They try to ruin people's lives. To me, that's bullying. Leave the disagreements here.






awsmnss26
by on Apr. 20, 2013 at 2:34 PM


Okay... well that just proves that people are mean spirited and lack compassion. I am not going to be one of those people. I will continue to stick up for those who are picked on because I know how it feels. There is nothing wrong with being nice.

Quoting ReadWriteLuv:

I'm sorry but I disagree.

This is an online forum. There are hundreds of groups here. No one is making anyone be a member of any of them. You choose to be here, you choose to accept that some people are assholes. If you feel bullied by someone, you can block them. If you have people that are constantly belittling you, don't read their comments. It's that simple.

Kids who are bullied in school, (and quite frankly I think that term is used too broadly with our children as well but that's another subject), have little choice but to face it everyday. Here, on the Internet, you have the option to click the little red X in the corner. No one here can cry and say they are being bullied by the big, bad Internet strangers because, quite frankly, they are choosing to stay around and take it.

*Side note: this is the stance that got me kicked out of MC, if you are constantly picked on by mobs, cliques, or individuals, and you choose to keep coming back to respond to them, part of you likes it. You're getting something out of it, even if it's just negative attention, or people like you who seem to want to play the white knight and run to defend them.*


Quoting awsmnss26:


When you say people are way to sensitive you are somewhat right. But where do you draw the line. There are people... adults and children alike who go through awful things every day only to have to deal with it online too. One rude comment online could send people over the edge. Not to say that its anyones fault but these days I think we need to be a little more compassionate. Yes if someone is being outwardly rude give it back to them. But I feel like a lot of people over do it when it comes to putting others down about what they say or who they percieve them to be. Its a fine line from debating and berating.

good



Quoting ReadWriteLuv:

I think people are way too sensitive and the term "bullying" is vastly over used.



I don't think anything here constitutes bullying until someone crosses the line and starts to take things into the real world. No one needs to be looking up anyone here's personal info, like their home address and phone number. No one needs to stalk people's other social media accounts or follow them around to other message board type websites and trash talk them there.



Perhaps not in this group, but in others, there have been cases of people real life stalking other members, whether it be one person or groups of people that do it. They try to ruin people's lives. To me, that's bullying. Leave the disagreements here.






survivorinohio
by René on Apr. 20, 2013 at 2:40 PM
1 mom liked this

I was just thinking about it and really, I miss some of the bullies, am I bad?  One lady specifically comes to mind, she used to be an attorney, she could get mean as hell but I really liked her.

tooptimistic
by Kelly on Apr. 25, 2013 at 3:26 PM

Bump

Veni.Vidi.Vici.
by on Apr. 25, 2013 at 4:35 PM

IMO it's going out of your way to insult a member. I would say a CM bully intnetionally seeks a person out and might respond to that person in a mean and/or 'intimidating' way.

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