Join the Meeting Place for Moms!
Talk to other moms, share advice, and have fun!

(minimum 6 characters)

Current Events & Hot Topics Current Events & Hot Topics

S/O (kind of) on, Is Islam more dangerous? Why do we need to humanize these terrorists?

Posted by   + Show Post

I tend to agree with everything they said here. CBS should be ashamed. 

Ps. I think Amanda Palmer should be exiled or committed, or both. 

by on Apr. 23, 2013 at 1:19 AM
Replies (71-77):
Della529
by Matlock on Apr. 23, 2013 at 9:51 PM
1 mom liked this

 I see.  You haven't a clue.

Quoting DestinyHLewis:

 

I don't need to understand that, mostly because I don't care what their reasons are. I am aware of their reasons for hatred of our culture, I just don't care. However, the people who's job it is to study these things understand all of it very well. Have for a long time. It still hasn't changed a darn thing about the fact they continue to launch these attacks. No amount of picking apart an extremists psyche will help us stop these attacks.They are religious  zealots who hate the West and will do anything in their power to hurt the people of the West. Enough said. 

We already know what we need to know about that aspect. As I mentioned earlier, recognizing they are human by species is one thing, making them sound like your average person to garner empathy? Despicable. 

And PS. It's actually deep-seated. Damn auto correct. It happens. You clearly understood what I was saying. 

Quoting Della529:

 Do you understand the "why, what, when" of this?

And the word is "seated", not seeded :)

Quoting DestinyHLewis:

 

We have a ridiculous amount of that info. It hasn't and will never change that radicals/extremists  will do this. They have a deep seeded and long hatred of Westerners, the US, in particular. Picking apart this kid isn't going to give us anymore intelligence than we already have. "Humanizing" him in the fashion these people did in this clip does nothing but confuse the issues. 

(I am aware you were asking a rhetorical question, I just decided to respond to your part of the thread) 

Quoting lokilover:

 

 

Quoting rfurlongg:

But it is much more than learning their plans or naming their accomplices. It is understanding their motivation, how they perceive and interpret events, how they internalize environmental stimuli. So on.

Once again, humanizing them does not absolving them from guilt.

Quoting lokilover:

 

 


Quoting rfurlongg:

If a human was involved, then humanization is necessary. How can understand behaviour if we do not understand the human?



Quoting lokilover:

 

 



Quoting rfurlongg:

Well, the questions are very open ended therefore the answers can range wildly. Was this preventable? If so when and at what level? Was any other person / persons involved? If so, what was the level of involement? What were the events surrounding the decision to be destructive? Were their culture norms at play? So on, and so on.





Quoting lokilover:

 

 




Quoting rfurlongg:

The value in humanizing those we prefer to demonize is that humanizing provides answers. How / why / when did such evil rear its ugly head in this murder / terrorist?

Simply hating them and not learning teaches us very little and helps us even less.




Humanizing does not mean absolving from guilt.

What answers?




 

Most of those don't need humanization to be answered. 



 

You can still view someone as a monster and find out if they were working with accomplices and what their plans were.


 

We don't already have research on terrorist motivation, psychology, and how they operate? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

rgba
by Bronze Member on Apr. 23, 2013 at 10:11 PM
I totally agree, but LOLed at "wongness"

:)


Quoting AlekD:

O_o



The wongness of that aside, dehumanizing ones enemy is a pretty big step towards evil. I think "glorifying" would be a more fitting word than "humanizing." And personally i dont see anything wrong with attempting to better understand the causes or motivations of people who do evil things, rather than just writing them off as monsters and hanging them high. Its not like anyone is saying he should go free because he was young, popular, and moderately handsome. I think people are just shocked that such a generally likeable guy went SO wrong. I havent seen anyone denying that he is a terrorist who should and will be punished for his crimes.




Quoting DestinyHLewis:


Not these monsters or anyone else of their ilk. Did you watch the clip? That was referring to how CBS news found people to ogle over the younger brother. Pretty disgusting. 



Quoting AlekD:

Wait..what? There is no need to "humanize" humans...






Posted on CafeMom Mobile
AlekD
by Gold Member on Apr. 23, 2013 at 10:16 PM
1 mom liked this
Lol! Damn typing with thumbs!

Quoting rgba:

I totally agree, but LOLed at "wongness"



:)




Quoting AlekD:

O_o





The wongness of that aside, dehumanizing ones enemy is a pretty big step towards evil. I think "glorifying" would be a more fitting word than "humanizing." And personally i dont see anything wrong with attempting to better understand the causes or motivations of people who do evil things, rather than just writing them off as monsters and hanging them high. Its not like anyone is saying he should go free because he was young, popular, and moderately handsome. I think people are just shocked that such a generally likeable guy went SO wrong. I havent seen anyone denying that he is a terrorist who should and will be punished for his crimes.






Quoting DestinyHLewis:


Not these monsters or anyone else of their ilk. Did you watch the clip? That was referring to how CBS news found people to ogle over the younger brother. Pretty disgusting. 




Quoting AlekD:

Wait..what? There is no need to "humanize" humans...







amsp259
by on Apr. 23, 2013 at 10:20 PM

Lets die-sect sorry the pun!!! Evil is evil! 

fireangel5
by Gold Member on Apr. 23, 2013 at 10:33 PM

I don't care for the "victimization"  of terrorists. 

lancet98
by Silver Member on Apr. 24, 2013 at 7:41 AM

The terrorists are, in fact, human beings.   And if you don't regard them that way, you'll never be able to stop them or keep them from harming people in America.   Having a well informed view of them is the only way to deal successfully with the problem.

If you think 'they're all alike', or 'Islam is just like that', you flood the FBI and CIA with calls and false reports, until they are so flooded they can't find the real problems.   If you think your attitude doesn't gum up the works, think again.   If you think viewing people as 'subhuman' leads to success, you're wrong.

They are simply people on the other side of a war. 

So it is a war we didn't declare?    It's a war nevertheless.

They think what they do is justified.   And we think what we do is justified.   We go fight a war in Afghanistan, or Iraq, there will always be some people who want to take revenge for that.   Our leaders felt we had to fight these wars or face global consequences.   And their leaders encourage people to take revenge for that war.

It's pretty straightforward: they are at war against us.   Who are 'they'?   A radical minority of people from various countries.   If it were not a minority, we would be getting bombed more often.    In fact, there are a lot of people from Muslim countries in America, and most of them are never going to bomb anybody.

Our opponents in war aren't subhuman - that's what people constantly try to stress, that our enemies are subhuman weirdos.  That's supposed to make us feel better about having a war with them.   It's ok because they're subhuman.   The problem is thinking that way prevents us from dealing successfully with it.

They're not subhuman.   They're simply on the other side of the battle.  

Some of them are mentally unstable.   Some of them are just thugs and criminals.   Some of them lost relatives in various wars.  Some of them are young adults who are gullible and easily led, and have lived comfortable lives.   Some of them have foreign ties and some do not.

And some of those young adults, have been around parents and relatives whose OWN anger, easily gets turned upon someone else.   I see it as their parents anger at the Russian government, easily gets turned to any government, for whatever reason.   People who are raised in anger are easily led.

Now...this is not to say the Chechen conflict was no big deal.    The Chechen conflict could be called the Chechen disaster - many people were pushed into radicalism in that situation.  

Just not all of them.   

We have immigrants from Chechnya like the boys'  uncle, who may have split with his relatives over radicalization, or perhaps at the start, just shame at his relative being arrested for shoplifting.  

But they are two very, very different people, despite being from the same region and despite probably sharing a religion.

 He has a very, very different view of the crime.   Where his relatives immediately insisted the boys are innocent and must have been framed, he voiced only shame and anger at them.

Perhaps her being  the boys' mother is largely responsible for her denial, or it may be because she herself has given in to bitterness, anger.

  In the context of her experience her anger makes some sort of sense - many Chechens were lumped together with the separatists.   Many accused the Russian govt of going to disturbing extremes to  hunt down the separatists who set bombs and attacked.   

Anger easily turns to bitterness and vigilantism.  

We have a great many very bitter, angry Americans who have been radicalized.  

They advocate gun violence against the government for imagined future wrongs.  

They are no different in mentality, from the boys who bombed the Boston Marathon.   Same anger, same vigilantism.

MeAndTommyLee
by Platinum Member on Apr. 26, 2013 at 1:23 AM

I'm amused.  I'm no conservative.  I've spent the majority of my life fighting conformity , bans, censorship and laws that infringe on my personal rights.   I'm a free thinker that does not need to belong to any named group of people. 

Quoting parentalrights1:

There you conservatives go with your made up bullshit again

Noone protects extremist Muslims. Liberals just understand the concept of not blaming and persecuting and entire group of religious people based on a few radical crazies.

As for the two bombers, yes there are a few goobers who feel sorry for them. A special kind of crazy is always going to exist somewhere, but mostly people are trying to understand then and are shocked by the events.

Quit trying to paint liberals as people who like terrorists. This is why noone takes conservatives seriously anymore.


Quoting MeAndTommyLee:

The  US liberals love Islam.  Period.  It's too chic these days to express a negative opinion on extremist Muslims.  You know they're crazy, I know they are crazy,   but to bitch about is is stereotyping....and that's ignorant.  Ignorant, or uneducated....trouble is, I am educated to know and realize that extremists are very, very dangerous people who by coincidence keep  blowing things up in the name of Islam. 

 


Quoting DestinyHLewis:

 

We already know the root cause. It's radicalism. Nothing more to know. I do believe it's shameful to make them sound like victims themselves. Which is exactly what CBS and others have done. 


Quoting jessilin0113:

I think it's important to humanize them.  Call it liberal psychobabble if you like, but there is something to be said about addressing root causes of issues.  Simply writing them off as "evil" ignores some pretty significant realities that can and should be addressed to prevent them from happening again.  That's the same concept behind "those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it".  

 


 

 


 



 

Add your quick reply below:
You must be a member to reply to this post.
Join the Meeting Place for Moms!
Talk to other moms, share advice, and have fun!

(minimum 6 characters)