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A Christian Dad on Judgmental Christians

This blog really hit home with me.  I've been guilty of the same type of judgmental attitudes that I've complained about in Christians.  Here is a Christian Dad's words on judgment and the not so good outcomes (the bolded portions are what struck me as particularly insightful):



In setting standards for our family, each of us must work through a process of evaluation and analysis to decide what is safe, wise, or permissible. Once we become convinced of our personal standards, not uncommonly, it follows that we believe they should apply to others as well.

The Pharisees belittled others who didn't hold to their standards. We have gone their way when we judge others. It is easy to miss this area of pride because we may not express our judgments "arrogantly"; we may instead wrap them in compassionate-sounding words. Arrogance wrapped in concerned tones is deceiving.

Pride is so deceptive that we won't know our judgments are even judgments. We will think we are just making observations and feeling pity, when in fact, we are looking down on others from our lofty place of confident enlightenment. It is a high view of ourselves that allows us to condescend to and belittle others in our mind. And if you already knew all this, be careful - pride will even cause us to be amazed that others didn't see what was so obvious to us.

Typically, when we belittle others who don't measure up to our standards, we will also imagine others are judging us. Consequently, we will find ourselves frequently being defensive. We assume that others will think lowly of us for some perceived inadequacy, so we offer unsolicited explanations and clarifications for us or our children. For example, let's say we walked past a TV at Sears and saw something of interest - when we tell others what we saw, we are careful to clarify that we saw it at Sears and weren't watching a TV at home. If we live under fear of judgment, not only will we tend to be on the defensive, but whenever we are in a public setting where our children might be "watched," we will put pressure on them.

When pride is working its work in us, we sincerely believe our personal opinions reflect God's utmost priorities and standards. What we believe to be our "enlightened" perspective becomes a filter by which we gauge others' spirituality, and therefore limits our options for fellowship. We develop a very narrow definition of what we call "likeminded" people, based on the outworkings of our values and opinions. Now we are on a path to exclusivity when we will no longer associate with those who will be with us in eternity. Is it possible we have lost sight of fellowship based on love and devotion to Jesus, and have substituted personal standards and a narrow view of Christian liberty?

There are several serious consequences of raising children in a home marked by pride and judgment. Children may grow up also judging others. Or, they may hide their real values, acting as though they embrace our values, when, in fact, they are simply seeking to avoid discipline and lectures at home. Or, they may see the shallowness of our legalistic faith that consists primarily of "avoid this, wear that, attend this," and not be attracted to it in the least.


http://www.joshharris.com/2011/09/homeschool_blindspots.php

I would love to hear thoughts from all religions/areligious perspectives on this.  I think what this man has to say can be applied to a broad number of situations.


by on Apr. 23, 2013 at 7:53 PM
Replies (51-60):
friendlymom48
by Member on Apr. 25, 2013 at 11:48 PM
bump
flika
by Bronze Member on Apr. 26, 2013 at 7:20 AM
At the supermarket there's this guy that works there, every time I go, he is asking me to go to his house on the day that he and others meet to pray, sing and I got know what else. I had to stop going to that store because every time I saw him, it was the same. Talking about god, telling me he was saved by this church and that I need to join them.

At school, some staff I know, same thing. Inviting me to their church so I can be saved. That church saved their lives.

At work, many of my coworkers, same thing.

Meanwhile the 2 Muslims there, never mention their religion. I have asked then about it to learn something new from their point and not from the TV or people and that was it. They didn't invite Me or told me how I would be saved if I joined them.

So, while you might not do it, in my bubble its what I see every time I go out. I talk to random people for whatever reason and they tell me about their god, their church and to be saved. Not long ago I had a knock in the door from a girl with pamphlets about god.

Maybe I judge them all in one group but until I meet the one person that's tolerant, I won't stop thinking this way.

And the atheist I've met, never mention religion. We have talk normal things and that's it. No gods, no churches, no come here we will save your life.

And I forget, the postings on fb about god, to much. So yeah, I don't think I'll be changing my mind any time soon.


Quoting katzmeow726:

My point was that it's unfair to judge an entire group.  You are no better than the Christians that use their faith to put others down, or generalize non Christians.  It is a whopping case of pot meet kettle.  And for the record, I don't try to convert others...I've always felt we should let people come to God in their own way and own time.  We should just be there if they wanted to talk or ask questions.  

   And no, I never converted from a Catholic church...heck I've only been in one a couple of times when I was a kid and went with my Aunt and uncle if I spent the night with them.  I was actually an atheist until I was about 12. I didn't convert because a church "saved my life."  I do sometimes tell people why I converted, but usually only if I am asked.  Like I said, just going around and saying "hey this is why I'm a Christian" can push people away more than anything.

 
    I don't believe there is a right or wrong church....a person has to go where they are comfortable and happy.  Nor do I believe my faith is the only correct one.  Do I feel it is right for me?  Yes.  Does that mean that others are wrong? No.  Just because I believe in the one God, it does not automatically mean that I discount the possibility that others exist.  I mean even the commandments say "no gods before me," that could very well mean there are others. 

    Now, do I disagree with atheists?  Yes...I figure that is obvious by my choice in belief.  But I do not say that they are wrong. There is always a possibility I could be. We won't know for certain until we leave this world.
    And I also hold strong to the idea that all beliefs can get along.  I'm proof of that.  While Christian by definition, my husband and I also practice Jewish traditions in our home.  And I have recently started to practice and follow the beliefs of Buddhism.  It's safe to say that I do not count one faith as more or less than any other.  

   I find it absolutely hard to believe it happens 99% of the time.  Even in this forum no where near 99% of the Christians are like that.  And in real life have never seen that kind of statistic.  If it is like that where you live, you most certainly have my condolences and apologies for your experiences.  But it is absolutely unfair to say "they are all like that" when in reality we aren't.  I will not be grouped in with people who attempt to force their beliefs on others.  I will not be included with people who feel that their faith is the only correct one...I won't because that is NOT who I am, nor what I believe.


   As to the logic thing, that is fine and dandy.  However, just because I believe in God, does not automatically make me illogical.  Sure, I have one illogical belief.  But I also value science and fact.  I suppose you could say that my faith is the one area where I let it slide.  
    It is a good thing don't define non-Christians and atheists by your poor example.  I know, LOGICALLY, that you can not judge an entire group by a percentage of the population.  For someone who is so against "close minded" christians, you are absolutely guilty of the same thing.  Open your mind, and your eyes. 
   I have the feeling that your "99%" is really just you seeing what you want to see.  No matter what a person says, you're going to see it as them trying to convert you.  The problem is, since you openly admit to running from Christians, how do you know they are all like that?  You won't give anyone a chance.   

Quoting flika:

Unfortunately, in my experience it's how it's been every time. I have talk to this people that are trying to convert me. I've never met a Muslim that's trying to get me to explode to think the same way. And I will agree with atheist use logic, so how can one debate that?



Quoting katzmeow726:

Wow...way to generalize. So should I dodge every Muslim because they might bomb me? Every atheist because they will call me illogical? Every pagan because they will lead me to witch craft?





I mean if we are going to generalize one, lets do it for all






Quoting flika:

When I know someone is a Christian, I think beware! I smile and I go the other way as fasts as I can. What I've seen is they are always wanting to get you to be of their group, their church etc. They always say, I was catholic but now I'm in this church and they save my life etc.



And since it's happened to me 99% of the time, I do think they are all like that.







It's scares me bc it seems they think they follow the correct church/religion and you don't.











Quoting talia-mom:

I would love to see an article from an atheist on hyper judgmental atheists.









And don't even tell me they don't exist because you see them on this board.














I don't judge people on religion. I judge on if they are going to cost me tax dollars.


tambrathegreat
by on Apr. 26, 2013 at 8:23 AM

BUMP!

Lizardannie1966
by on Apr. 26, 2013 at 9:23 AM
2 moms liked this

Good read!

I think humans are born with the predisposed ability TO judge. Just one of our many flaws that we can control but so many of us opt not to.

Religion and politics tend to bring out that judgmental side for many of us, no matter what religion we are (or aren't) and no matter what side of the political fence we find ourselves.

Christians are taught to not judge yet so many do. The ones to point this quirk out to the judgmental Christians do so in the most finger-pointing, judgmental way.

Human nature can be ugly.

katzmeow726
by Platinum Member on Apr. 26, 2013 at 9:40 AM
So those few people equate to 99%? It really is a shame...you are as guilty as the people you seem to hate, and can't even see it.

Quoting flika:

At the supermarket there's this guy that works there, every time I go, he is asking me to go to his house on the day that he and others meet to pray, sing and I got know what else. I had to stop going to that store because every time I saw him, it was the same. Talking about god, telling me he was saved by this church and that I need to join them.



At school, some staff I know, same thing. Inviting me to their church so I can be saved. That church saved their lives.



At work, many of my coworkers, same thing.



Meanwhile the 2 Muslims there, never mention their religion. I have asked then about it to learn something new from their point and not from the TV or people and that was it. They didn't invite Me or told me how I would be saved if I joined them.



So, while you might not do it, in my bubble its what I see every time I go out. I talk to random people for whatever reason and they tell me about their god, their church and to be saved. Not long ago I had a knock in the door from a girl with pamphlets about god.



Maybe I judge them all in one group but until I meet the one person that's tolerant, I won't stop thinking this way.



And the atheist I've met, never mention religion. We have talk normal things and that's it. No gods, no churches, no come here we will save your life.



And I forget, the postings on fb about god, to much. So yeah, I don't think I'll be changing my mind any time soon.





Quoting katzmeow726:

My point was that it's unfair to judge an entire group.  You are no better than the Christians that use their faith to put others down, or generalize non Christians.  It is a whopping case of pot meet kettle.  And for the record, I don't try to convert others...I've always felt we should let people come to God in their own way and own time.  We should just be there if they wanted to talk or ask questions.  

   And no, I never converted from a Catholic church...heck I've only been in one a couple of times when I was a kid and went with my Aunt and uncle if I spent the night with them.  I was actually an atheist until I was about 12. I didn't convert because a church "saved my life."  I do sometimes tell people why I converted, but usually only if I am asked.  Like I said, just going around and saying "hey this is why I'm a Christian" can push people away more than anything.

 
    I don't believe there is a right or wrong church....a person has to go where they are comfortable and happy.  Nor do I believe my faith is the only correct one.  Do I feel it is right for me?  Yes.  Does that mean that others are wrong? No.  Just because I believe in the one God, it does not automatically mean that I discount the possibility that others exist.  I mean even the commandments say "no gods before me," that could very well mean there are others. 

    Now, do I disagree with atheists?  Yes...I figure that is obvious by my choice in belief.  But I do not say that they are wrong. There is always a possibility I could be. We won't know for certain until we leave this world.
    And I also hold strong to the idea that all beliefs can get along.  I'm proof of that.  While Christian by definition, my husband and I also practice Jewish traditions in our home.  And I have recently started to practice and follow the beliefs of Buddhism.  It's safe to say that I do not count one faith as more or less than any other.  

   I find it absolutely hard to believe it happens 99% of the time.  Even in this forum no where near 99% of the Christians are like that.  And in real life have never seen that kind of statistic.  If it is like that where you live, you most certainly have my condolences and apologies for your experiences.  But it is absolutely unfair to say "they are all like that" when in reality we aren't.  I will not be grouped in with people who attempt to force their beliefs on others.  I will not be included with people who feel that their faith is the only correct one...I won't because that is NOT who I am, nor what I believe.


   As to the logic thing, that is fine and dandy.  However, just because I believe in God, does not automatically make me illogical.  Sure, I have one illogical belief.  But I also value science and fact.  I suppose you could say that my faith is the one area where I let it slide.  
    It is a good thing don't define non-Christians and atheists by your poor example.  I know, LOGICALLY, that you can not judge an entire group by a percentage of the population.  For someone who is so against "close minded" christians, you are absolutely guilty of the same thing.  Open your mind, and your eyes. 
   I have the feeling that your "99%" is really just you seeing what you want to see.  No matter what a person says, you're going to see it as them trying to convert you.  The problem is, since you openly admit to running from Christians, how do you know they are all like that?  You won't give anyone a chance.   

Quoting flika:

Unfortunately, in my experience it's how it's been every time. I have talk to this people that are trying to convert me. I've never met a Muslim that's trying to get me to explode to think the same way. And I will agree with atheist use logic, so how can one debate that?





Quoting katzmeow726:

Wow...way to generalize. So should I dodge every Muslim because they might bomb me? Every atheist because they will call me illogical? Every pagan because they will lead me to witch craft?







I mean if we are going to generalize one, lets do it for all








Quoting flika:

When I know someone is a Christian, I think beware! I smile and I go the other way as fasts as I can. What I've seen is they are always wanting to get you to be of their group, their church etc. They always say, I was catholic but now I'm in this church and they save my life etc.




And since it's happened to me 99% of the time, I do think they are all like that.









It's scares me bc it seems they think they follow the correct church/religion and you don't.














Quoting talia-mom:

I would love to see an article from an atheist on hyper judgmental atheists.











And don't even tell me they don't exist because you see them on this board.

















I don't judge people on religion. I judge on if they are going to cost me tax dollars.


LindaClement
by Thatwoman on Apr. 26, 2013 at 11:07 AM

I don't have that kind of relationship with Kitty, or Tambrathegreat... so I don't know that.

Quoting tambrathegreat:

Honestly, I think this would have been better received by some, if someone else had posted it.  I may be wrong, but that's what I think.

Quoting LindaClement:

I still don't think it was judgemental on the author's part.

Do you?

Quoting 12hellokitty:

All I was pointing out was the way it was written.  I'm glad people like what the pastor has said and I hope it helps them to reflect on their own struggle with pride and judgment.  


Quoting LindaClement:

What you didn't say is which ones you think they are. You picked out what you disagree with...

Which is a fairly ordinary, not very enlightened, means of assessing a case: I agree with that, so I can dismiss it from any form of critical thinking about it; I disagree with that so my thoughts are correct and the author's are incorrect.

It's hard to learn from winning, as the saying goes.

Quoting 12hellokitty:

 Where did I say I didn't like what he wrote?  What I did say was he makes good points. 

Quoting katzmeow726:

That is not what he said. I think you don't like it because it rings true

Quoting 12hellokitty:

The way it is written. 


"Pride is so deceptive that we won't know our judgments are even judgments."


Example if someone disagrees with his view it is because they are being deceived by their own pride.   






Quoting shannonnigans:

Where has he cast judgment on those who disagree with him?




Quoting 12hellokitty:


He makes good points, unfortunately he has done so in a way that casts judgment on anyone who would disagree or question his views.  It's to bad he focused so much on the sin pride that he neglects to teach about the virtue of humility. 














flika
by Bronze Member on Apr. 26, 2013 at 11:20 AM
I don't think I ever said I hate them. I ran from them. It's not a few, it's an example if I write down the daily occurrences, I will have a book.

I don't need this people's agendas in my life. I don't see what the problem with that is. I live and let live. I don't tell people what I believe or don't believe. I don't tell them what I support or not for them to try and save me. They don't respect you but we have to respect them. And until I don't encounter a Christian that doesn't want to save me, I probably won't change my mind. And believe me, I'm open to do so but I'll do when I see it not when I'm told to.

Actions speak louder than words.

Quoting katzmeow726:So those few people equate to 99%? It really is a shame...you are as guilty as the people you seem to hate, and can't even see it.

Quoting flika:At the supermarket there's this guy that works there, every time I go, he is asking me to go to his house on the day that he and others meet to pray, sing and I got know what else. I had to stop going to that store because every time I saw him, it was the same. Talking about god, telling me he was saved by this church and that I need to join them.

At school, some staff I know, same thing. Inviting me to their church so I can be saved. That church saved their lives.

At work, many of my coworkers, same thing.

Meanwhile the 2 Muslims there, never mention their religion. I have asked then about it to learn something new from their point and not from the TV or people and that was it. They didn't invite Me or told me how I would be saved if I joined them.

So, while you might not do it, in my bubble its what I see every time I go out. I talk to random people for whatever reason and they tell me about their god, their church and to be saved. Not long ago I had a knock in the door from a girl with pamphlets about god.

Maybe I judge them all in one group but until I meet the one person that's tolerant, I won't stop thinking this way.

And the atheist I've met, never mention religion. We have talk normal things and that's it. No gods, no churches, no come here we will save your life.

And I forget, the postings on fb about god, to much. So yeah, I don't think I'll be changing my mind any time soon.


Quoting katzmeow726:My point was that it's unfair to judge an entire group.  You are no better than the Christians that use their faith to put others down, or generalize non Christians.  It is a whopping case of pot meet kettle.  And for the record, I don't try to convert others...I've always felt we should let people come to God in their own way and own time.  We should just be there if they wanted to talk or ask questions.     And no, I never converted from a Catholic church...heck I've only been in one a couple of times when I was a kid and went with my Aunt and uncle if I spent the night with them.  I was actually an atheist until I was about 12. I didn't convert because a church "saved my life."  I do sometimes tell people why I converted, but usually only if I am asked.  Like I said, just going around and saying "hey this is why I'm a Christian" can push people away more than anything.     I don't believe there is a right or wrong church....a person has to go where they are comfortable and happy.  Nor do I believe my faith is the only correct one.  Do I feel it is right for me?  Yes.  Does that mean that others are wrong? No.  Just because I believe in the one God, it does not automatically mean that I discount the possibility that others exist.  I mean even the commandments say "no gods before me," that could very well mean there are others.     Now, do I disagree with atheists?  Yes...I figure that is obvious by my choice in belief.  But I do not say that they are wrong. There is always a possibility I could be. We won't know for certain until we leave this world.    And I also hold strong to the idea that all beliefs can get along.  I'm proof of that.  While Christian by definition, my husband and I also practice Jewish traditions in our home.  And I have recently started to practice and follow the beliefs of Buddhism.  It's safe to say that I do not count one faith as more or less than any other.     I find it absolutely hard to believe it happens 99% of the time.  Even in this forum no where near 99% of the Christians are like that.  And in real life have never seen that kind of statistic.  If it is like that where you live, you most certainly have my condolences and apologies for your experiences.  But it is absolutely unfair to say "they are all like that" when in reality we aren't.  I will not be grouped in with people who attempt to force their beliefs on others.  I will not be included with people who feel that their faith is the only correct one...I won't because that is NOT who I am, nor what I believe.   As to the logic thing, that is fine and dandy.  However, just because I believe in God, does not automatically make me illogical.  Sure, I have one illogical belief.  But I also value science and fact.  I suppose you could say that my faith is the one area where I let it slide.      It is a good thing don't define non-Christians and atheists by your poor example.  I know, LOGICALLY, that you can not judge an entire group by a percentage of the population.  For someone who is so against "close minded" christians, you are absolutely guilty of the same thing.  Open your mind, and your eyes.    I have the feeling that your "99%" is really just you seeing what you want to see.  No matter what a person says, you're going to see it as them trying to convert you.  The problem is, since you openly admit to running from Christians, how do you know they are all like that?  You won't give anyone a chance.   Quoting flika:Unfortunately, in my experience it's how it's been every time. I have talk to this people that are trying to convert me. I've never met a Muslim that's trying to get me to explode to think the same way. And I will agree with atheist use logic, so how can one debate that?

Quoting katzmeow726:Wow...way to generalize. So should I dodge every Muslim because they might bomb me? Every atheist because they will call me illogical? Every pagan because they will lead me to witch craft?

I mean if we are going to generalize one, lets do it for all

Quoting flika:When I know someone is a Christian, I think beware! I smile and I go the other way as fasts as I can. What I've seen is they are always wanting to get you to be of their group, their church etc. They always say, I was catholic but now I'm in this church and they save my life etc.
And since it's happened to me 99% of the time, I do think they are all like that.

It's scares me bc it seems they think they follow the correct church/religion and you don't.


Quoting talia-mom:I would love to see an article from an atheist on hyper judgmental atheists.

And don't even tell me they don't exist because you see them on this board.


I don't judge people on religion. I judge on if they are going to cost me tax dollars.
tambrathegreat
by on Apr. 26, 2013 at 3:07 PM

BUMP!

HunnyBabie
by Member on Apr. 26, 2013 at 3:21 PM

I agree that what he has to say is eye-opening.  I also agree that it can be applied in broad strokes to more than just Christianity.  I have posted opinions/questions in other groups and been accused of being judgemental.  The stark contrast, in my opinion, between what I do and "judgemental"-ness is that I do not assume that everyone else should live-and-die by what I believe.  There are things that are blatently stated in the Bible; I am not perfect, I sin too; however, I have a problem with ppl saying this, which the Word of the God that "Christians" claim to serve says is SIN, is not exactly what He called it.  That is what I do not understand.

I call it sin when I'm harsh or disrespectful to my children, b/c I know that God does not want me treating anyone that way, to say nothing of the fact that He expects me to be their example of Him.
Why is it so hard for ppl to call homosexuality, adultery, etc sin?  It's written all over the Bible that they are.

HunnyBabie
by Member on Apr. 26, 2013 at 3:25 PM
1 mom liked this

 Hi!  You just met a Christian who is not going to try to save you. :-)  I just live what I believe and respect what others choose to believe.  If we believe the same thing about something, GREAT.  If we have differing views, equally GREAT.  I'm open to hear what other ppl have to say, whether they're Christians or not, b/c I believe that what is most important in my life is that I hear what God is trying to tell me and I know (from experience) that He can use anything that anyone says.

I'm not going to tell you what to believe, but I'd like to "hear" what you do believe. :)


Quoting flika:

 And until I don't encounter a Christian that doesn't want to save me, I probably won't change my mind. And believe me, I'm open to do so but I'll do when I see it not when I'm told to.


 

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