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2nd child of couple dies after not seeking medical attention

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A couple serving probation for the 2009 death of their toddler after they turned to prayer instead of a doctor could face new charges now that another son has died.

Herbert and Catherine Schaible belong to a fundamentalist Christian church that believes in faith healing. They lost their 8-month-old son, Brandon, last week after he suffered from diarrhea and breathing problems for at least a week, and stopped eating. Four years ago, another son died from bacterial pneumonia.

Prosecutors said Tuesday that a decision on charges will be made after they get the results of an autopsy.

Catherine Schaible's attorney, Mythri Jayaraman, cautioned against a rush to judgment, and said the couple are good parents deeply distraught over the loss of another child.

"There are way more questions than answers at this point. We haven't seen the autopsy report. We don't know the cause of death of this child," Jayaraman told The Associated Press. "What we do know is Mr. and Mrs. Schaible are distraught, they are grieving, they are tremendously sad about the loss of their most recent baby."

A man who answered the phone at a listing for Herbert Schaible declined to comment and hung up.

A jury convicted the Schaibles of involuntary manslaughter in the January 2009 death of their 2-year-old son, Kent. The boy's symptoms had included coughing, congestion, crankiness and a loss of appetite. His parents said he was eating and drinking until the last day, and they had thought he was getting better.

The Schaibles were sentenced to 10 years' probation.

At a hearing Monday, a judge told the couple they had violated the terms of their probation, noting the Schaibles had told investigators that they prayed to God to make Brandon well instead of seeking medical attention.

"You did that once, and the consequences were tragic," Philadelphia Common Pleas Judge Benjamin Lerner said, according to the Philadelphia Daily News.

Prosecutors on Monday sought to have the couple jailed, but Lerner permitted them to remain free because their seven other children had been placed in foster care.

"He feels they are a danger to their children — not to the community, but to their own children," Assistant District Attorney Joanne Pescatore, who prosecuted the couple in 2010, said Tuesday.

Herbert Schaible, 44, and his 43-year-old wife grew up in the First Century Gospel Church in northeast Philadelphia and have served as teachers there. The church's website has a sermon titled "Healing — From God or Medicine?" that quotes Bible verses purportedly forbidding Christians from visiting doctors or taking medicine.

"It is a definite sin to trust in medical help and pills; and it is real faith to trust on the Name of Jesus for healing," says the message, from last May.

A phone message left with the church on Tuesday was not immediately returned.

The church's pastor said in 2010 that the couple had never received medical care themselves beyond the help of a lay midwife who attends home births.

The Schaibles did take their children for medical checkups as required by their probation, according to Jayaraman, the defense attorney. Jayaraman said that Brandon was checked by a doctor when he was 10 days old, but she did not know whether the child had seen a doctor since.

"Nobody argues that these aren't very loving, nurturing parents," she said Tuesday. "Whether their religion had anything to do with the death of their baby, we don't know."

by on Apr. 23, 2013 at 10:00 PM
Replies (21-30):
paganmommy4
by on Apr. 23, 2013 at 11:39 PM

ITs medical neglect. Unless they are jehovas witnesses. And even then its medical neglect. Its not a child until its born

Quoting LAHnTAH0812:

Wait... are you saying that parents should be forced to treat their child with western medicine, with no rights to choose what type of healing they agree with, yet they should have the right to choose to kill a child only months younger for any reason whatsoever?

Dafuq?


Quoting paganmommy4:

The bible has ruined peoples judgement. God created doctors right? This, now arkansas banning abortions, making doctors lie to patients.. Country gone insane



Pagan, Pro-choice, Pro-vaxing, Pitbull Advocate
lga1965
by on Apr. 23, 2013 at 11:40 PM

 I learned a lot from you.

wink

 

Quoting grandmab125:

 There you go again, on an uncalled for nasty rant towards another mom.  Why can't you disagree without deteriorating into a witch?

Quoting lga1965:

 OMG...natural causes? No, they died of preventable ailments. One child was  dehydrated due to diarrhea....it took days for him to die. It was like torture.  It  could have been cured with an IV.

Natural causes is totally different.

No wonder you are not shocked by what these parents have done. You have NO CLUE. When did you drop out of school? Sixth grade? My grandkids know more than you do.

And we are NOT talking about abortion, you hypocrite.

Quoting SewingMamaLele:

The thing I don't.get is that you're totally fine with parents willfully killing a child before birth... But a child dying of natural causes is somehow more atrocious?


I'm really thinking on this one... Trying to figure out how I really feel about it.


Quoting lga1965:

 


Quoting SewingMamaLele:

I don't think they should be tried or convicted of anything. Medical care is a choice. Not taking advantage of it shouldn't be criminal. These parents clearly aren't malicious, they just have different beliefs, and as much as I disagree with those beliefs, it's their right to have them.

 You have got to be kidding? They let their child die, then let another one die even when they were advised and on parole for the death of the first one. They were criminally negligent. They shouldn't be allowed to have children ever if they will just let them die. It is not their right to let a child die because of some phony "religious belief". And it is phony. Doctors heal people, not a bunch of prayers.Anyone who "chooses"not to get medical care needs a psychiatrist.

 

 

 

Sisteract
by Whoopie on Apr. 23, 2013 at 11:44 PM
2 moms liked this

That would be fine if they were choosing death for THEMSELVES, but a child deserves better. This is what court ordered care is all about- situations just like this.

Quoting SewingMamaLele:

I don't think they should be tried or convicted of anything. Medical care is a choice. Not taking advantage of it shouldn't be criminal. These parents clearly aren't malicious, they just have different beliefs, and as much as I disagree with those beliefs, it's their right to have them.


SewingMamaLele
by Leanne on Apr. 23, 2013 at 11:44 PM
Eek... Having a bad day, or are you usually this bitchy?

Yes, natural causes. Illness is natural, it's a common part of nature. Medical care is man made. There's a fine line... It's a difficult issue.

Just because it's available, should it be required? Where do we draw that line?



Quoting lga1965:

 OMG...natural causes? No, they died of preventable ailments. One child was  dehydrated due to diarrhea....it took days for him to die. It was like torture.  It  could have been cured with an IV.


Natural causes is totally different.


No wonder you are not shocked by what these parents have done. You have NO CLUE. When did you drop out of school? Sixth grade? My grandkids know more than you do.


And we are NOT talking about abortion, you hypocrite.


Quoting SewingMamaLele:

The thing I don't.get is that you're totally fine with parents willfully killing a child before birth... But a child dying of natural causes is somehow more atrocious?


I'm really thinking on this one... Trying to figure out how I really feel about it.



Quoting lga1965:


 



Quoting SewingMamaLele:

I don't think they should be tried or convicted of anything. Medical care is a choice. Not taking advantage of it shouldn't be criminal. These parents clearly aren't malicious, they just have different beliefs, and as much as I disagree with those beliefs, it's their right to have them.


 You have got to be kidding? They let their child die, then let another one die even when they were advised and on parole for the death of the first one. They were criminally negligent. They shouldn't be allowed to have children ever if they will just let them die. It is not their right to let a child die because of some phony "religious belief". And it is phony. Doctors heal people, not a bunch of prayers.Anyone who "chooses"not to get medical care needs a psychiatrist.


 

Bigmetalchicken
by Silver Member on Apr. 23, 2013 at 11:45 PM
1 mom liked this

The way I see it, I pray, but I also know that God put healers on the Earth so we could help ourselves. And some times the answer to those prayers come in the form of a doctor.

I am sensitive about stories like this, because I lost a dear friend as a child, because she had the misfortune of being born to JWs. They let her suffer and die for the very same reason these people have now given for killing two of their children.

Quoting FrumpyMama:

I just don't know how to comment. I pray for my kids to get better before and after they have gone to the doctor and the entire time they are sick, but I treat the illness. Prayer is powerful, but it doesn't always heal the body. 


TotallyConfused
by on Apr. 23, 2013 at 11:58 PM
Over the years I have had several friends who are hesitant to trust western medicine without first placing their trust in god. I've had the pleasure of several respectful, in depth conversations about their beliefs and I am glad to say they are just as appalled by situations like this as we are.

I understand the power of prayers, meditation, positive thinking etc especially in relation to healing our bodies & I don't rush off to the doctor for every little thing either but after the death of their toddler I'm really having trouble understanding their thinking the second time...

Yes, pray for healing for your child if you feel called to do so
Pray also for god to steady the hands & focus the minds of your surgeons
Pray that god will guide you to wise & caring doctors, quick-witted nurses who have that special pediatric gift to care for your babies and the courage to bravely make decisions in the best interest of your child especially when it seemingly conflicts with your previous priorities.....

grandmab125
by Gold Member on Apr. 24, 2013 at 12:02 AM

 Nah, you didn't.  I don't get witchy.  And apparently, you haven't been paying attention lately.  I've become much more diplomatic in what I say to others.  My true, softer side shines through.  I only get touchy, when others attack me first.

Quoting lga1965:

 I learned a lot from you.

wink

 

Quoting grandmab125:

 There you go again, on an uncalled for nasty rant towards another mom.  Why can't you disagree without deteriorating into a witch?

Quoting lga1965:

 OMG...natural causes? No, they died of preventable ailments. One child was  dehydrated due to diarrhea....it took days for him to die. It was like torture.  It  could have been cured with an IV.

Natural causes is totally different.

No wonder you are not shocked by what these parents have done. You have NO CLUE. When did you drop out of school? Sixth grade? My grandkids know more than you do.

And we are NOT talking about abortion, you hypocrite.

Quoting SewingMamaLele:

The thing I don't.get is that you're totally fine with parents willfully killing a child before birth... But a child dying of natural causes is somehow more atrocious?


I'm really thinking on this one... Trying to figure out how I really feel about it.


Quoting lga1965:

 


Quoting SewingMamaLele:

I don't think they should be tried or convicted of anything. Medical care is a choice. Not taking advantage of it shouldn't be criminal. These parents clearly aren't malicious, they just have different beliefs, and as much as I disagree with those beliefs, it's their right to have them.

 You have got to be kidding? They let their child die, then let another one die even when they were advised and on parole for the death of the first one. They were criminally negligent. They shouldn't be allowed to have children ever if they will just let them die. It is not their right to let a child die because of some phony "religious belief". And it is phony. Doctors heal people, not a bunch of prayers.Anyone who "chooses"not to get medical care needs a psychiatrist.

 

 

 

 

grandma B

la_bella_vita
by Bella on Apr. 24, 2013 at 12:02 AM
1 mom liked this

 Heartbreaking : ( I could never stand by and watch my children suffer. I'm not a huge antibiotics fan but in those situations my children would have received medical care.

grandmab125
by Gold Member on Apr. 24, 2013 at 12:05 AM

 Nah, Iga's not having a worse day than she usually has.  This is the true woman shining through.  She has a superiority complex, and treats others as if they are morons all of the time.  Just ignore her.  She's really rather insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

Quoting SewingMamaLele:

Eek... Having a bad day, or are you usually this bitchy?

Yes, natural causes. Illness is natural, it's a common part of nature. Medical care is man made. There's a fine line... It's a difficult issue.

Just because it's available, should it be required? Where do we draw that line?



Quoting lga1965:

 OMG...natural causes? No, they died of preventable ailments. One child was  dehydrated due to diarrhea....it took days for him to die. It was like torture.  It  could have been cured with an IV.


Natural causes is totally different.


No wonder you are not shocked by what these parents have done. You have NO CLUE. When did you drop out of school? Sixth grade? My grandkids know more than you do.


And we are NOT talking about abortion, you hypocrite.


Quoting SewingMamaLele:

The thing I don't.get is that you're totally fine with parents willfully killing a child before birth... But a child dying of natural causes is somehow more atrocious?


I'm really thinking on this one... Trying to figure out how I really feel about it.



Quoting lga1965:


 



Quoting SewingMamaLele:

I don't think they should be tried or convicted of anything. Medical care is a choice. Not taking advantage of it shouldn't be criminal. These parents clearly aren't malicious, they just have different beliefs, and as much as I disagree with those beliefs, it's their right to have them.


 You have got to be kidding? They let their child die, then let another one die even when they were advised and on parole for the death of the first one. They were criminally negligent. They shouldn't be allowed to have children ever if they will just let them die. It is not their right to let a child die because of some phony "religious belief". And it is phony. Doctors heal people, not a bunch of prayers.Anyone who "chooses"not to get medical care needs a psychiatrist.


 

 

grandma B

lga1965
by on Apr. 24, 2013 at 12:20 AM
1 mom liked this

 A child who has diarrhea can be saved with a couple of IV's but they didn't take the child to a hospital and let them do that....they watched their child die a slow painful death instead,. That is a criminal way of thinking. It makes me angry when anyone defends people like these who let their children die,. I am on the side of children who are powerless and can't defend themselves against the bad things people do to them.

But that's okay--you two band together and defend them. And bash me for being against these incredibly irresponsible and stupid parents. I don't care. This is the Internet and thankfully I don't have to know you or live with you in real life.It's okay if you don't like me. Have fun with that.And I'm sure you will, Granny.

Quoting grandmab125:

 Nah, Iga's not having a worse day than she usually has.  This is the true woman shining through.  She has a superiority complex, and treats others as if they are morons all of the time.  Just ignore her.  She's really rather insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

Quoting SewingMamaLele:

Eek... Having a bad day, or are you usually this bitchy?

Yes, natural causes. Illness is natural, it's a common part of nature. Medical care is man made. There's a fine line... It's a difficult issue.

Just because it's available, should it be required? Where do we draw that line?



Quoting lga1965:

 OMG...natural causes? No, they died of preventable ailments. One child was  dehydrated due to diarrhea....it took days for him to die. It was like torture.  It  could have been cured with an IV.


Natural causes is totally different.


No wonder you are not shocked by what these parents have done. You have NO CLUE. When did you drop out of school? Sixth grade? My grandkids know more than you do.


And we are NOT talking about abortion, you hypocrite.


Quoting SewingMamaLele:

The thing I don't.get is that you're totally fine with parents willfully killing a child before birth... But a child dying of natural causes is somehow more atrocious?


I'm really thinking on this one... Trying to figure out how I really feel about it.



Quoting lga1965:


 



Quoting SewingMamaLele:

I don't think they should be tried or convicted of anything. Medical care is a choice. Not taking advantage of it shouldn't be criminal. These parents clearly aren't malicious, they just have different beliefs, and as much as I disagree with those beliefs, it's their right to have them.


 You have got to be kidding? They let their child die, then let another one die even when they were advised and on parole for the death of the first one. They were criminally negligent. They shouldn't be allowed to have children ever if they will just let them die. It is not their right to let a child die because of some phony "religious belief". And it is phony. Doctors heal people, not a bunch of prayers.Anyone who "chooses"not to get medical care needs a psychiatrist.


 

 

 

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