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American Slaves Today --all legal and everything

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Question: Did you know about the extent of the manufacturing done by prisoners in the US?

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Total Votes: 60

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I just found out about this today.

I am speechless.

Prisoners earning 23 cents an hour in U.S. federal prisons are manufacturing high-tech electronic components for Patriot Advanced Capability 3 missiles, launchers for TOW (Tube-launched, Optically tracked, Wire-guided) anti-tank missiles, and other guided missile systems. A March article by journalist and financial researcher Justin Rohrlich of World in Review is worth a closer look at the full implications of this ominous development. (minyanville.com)

The expanding use of prison industries, which pay slave wages, as a way to increase profits for giant military corporations, is a frontal attack on the rights of all workers.

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by on Apr. 24, 2013 at 12:58 PM
Replies (151-160):
LoveMyKBabies
by on Apr. 25, 2013 at 7:54 PM
'slave wages'? Slaves made $0 because they were slaves..
Posted on CafeMom Mobile
specialwingz
by on Apr. 25, 2013 at 9:05 PM

 It's not sweatshop economics.  Inmates are getting free room and board along with free education (if they choose).  It is a well known fact that license plates used to be (may still be for that matter) produced by inmates.  There is nothing wrong with having them labor while incarcerated.  They earn more than money.  They have no need for money in prison.  They earn good behavior credit when they do things like this that will in turn, shorten their prison sentence.

So, what would you have prisoners do with all their spare time?

Quoting LindaClement:

I'm not having that argument --how prisoners are treated (apart from being Geneva Convention matters) are about the ethics of humanity, not the economics of sweatshops.

Quoting specialwingz:

 No, you missed my point.  I'm talking about the criminals in our correctional facilities.  Not the corporations.

Quoting LindaClement:

Sorry, you've completely missed the point:

The corporations who are benefitting from substantially-lower costs are NOT the criminals.

I think it's hypocritical, for a country where it is illegal to import any goods manufactured by slave, forced, indentured or prison labour, to grant massive government contracts to companies who make profits from exactly the same manufacturing by prisoners.

Quoting specialwingz:

These are CRIMINALS!!  They made their bad choices!   They are in prison to pay for those bad choices.  Not to have a grand ol' time in the cell block!  Why NOT make them earn their keep?  They did the crime.  It's NOT a race thing like slavery was!  It's paying a debt to society for breaking the law.  Not even comparable to slavery!

Do you think it's better that corporations out-source American jobs to 3rd world countries, leaving 33M unemployed American Citizens behind (that people bitch about because they have to draw unemployment and PA) to make a 500+% profit?  Many of the countries use CHILDREN!  Not to mention the pay they receive is not much more than is paid to US inmates.

From the sounds of it, you think THAT is acceptable.  Talk about a double standard!

Quoting LindaClement:

So, corporations who make body armour should get to pay 10% of market wages, for their own profits because of YOUR tax dollars?

Quoting specialwingz:

Totally agree with this.  Prisoners get educations on MY tax dollars.  They get full access to fully-equipt gyms (including olympic-sized pools) on MY tax dollars.  They get 3 meals a day and a warm bed at night on MY tax dollars.  They can damn well do something besides live off MY tax dollars.  I'd rather OUR prisoners be put to work than to send all the jobs to 3rd world countries where they use children for this!

Quoting romanceparty4u:

I'm all for it. If they could work 24/7 with nothing but bread and water, I'd be all for it. Save the taxpayer money, after all we have to pay for them to be in prison, so I don't think this is unfair or cruel

 


 


 


 

LucyMom08
by Gold Member on Apr. 25, 2013 at 9:10 PM

 Are you just not catching the economic impact of this, or are you deliberately ignoring the implications?

Quoting specialwingz:

 It's not sweatshop economics.  Inmates are getting free room and board along with free education (if they choose).  It is a well known fact that license plates used to be (may still be for that matter) produced by inmates.  There is nothing wrong with having them labor while incarcerated.  They earn more than money.  They have no need for money in prison.  They earn good behavior credit when they do things like this that will in turn, shorten their prison sentence.

So, what would you have prisoners do with all their spare time?

Quoting LindaClement:

I'm not having that argument --how prisoners are treated (apart from being Geneva Convention matters) are about the ethics of humanity, not the economics of sweatshops.

Quoting specialwingz:

 No, you missed my point.  I'm talking about the criminals in our correctional facilities.  Not the corporations.

Quoting LindaClement:

Sorry, you've completely missed the point:

The corporations who are benefitting from substantially-lower costs are NOT the criminals.

I think it's hypocritical, for a country where it is illegal to import any goods manufactured by slave, forced, indentured or prison labour, to grant massive government contracts to companies who make profits from exactly the same manufacturing by prisoners.

Quoting specialwingz:

These are CRIMINALS!!  They made their bad choices!   They are in prison to pay for those bad choices.  Not to have a grand ol' time in the cell block!  Why NOT make them earn their keep?  They did the crime.  It's NOT a race thing like slavery was!  It's paying a debt to society for breaking the law.  Not even comparable to slavery!

Do you think it's better that corporations out-source American jobs to 3rd world countries, leaving 33M unemployed American Citizens behind (that people bitch about because they have to draw unemployment and PA) to make a 500+% profit?  Many of the countries use CHILDREN!  Not to mention the pay they receive is not much more than is paid to US inmates.

From the sounds of it, you think THAT is acceptable.  Talk about a double standard!

Quoting LindaClement:

So, corporations who make body armour should get to pay 10% of market wages, for their own profits because of YOUR tax dollars?

Quoting specialwingz:

Totally agree with this.  Prisoners get educations on MY tax dollars.  They get full access to fully-equipt gyms (including olympic-sized pools) on MY tax dollars.  They get 3 meals a day and a warm bed at night on MY tax dollars.  They can damn well do something besides live off MY tax dollars.  I'd rather OUR prisoners be put to work than to send all the jobs to 3rd world countries where they use children for this!

Quoting romanceparty4u:

I'm all for it. If they could work 24/7 with nothing but bread and water, I'd be all for it. Save the taxpayer money, after all we have to pay for them to be in prison, so I don't think this is unfair or cruel

 


 


 


 

 

quickbooksworm
by Silver Member on Apr. 25, 2013 at 10:02 PM

Do you not understand how bidding works? The company with the lowest bid gets the work.  If the government is essentially providing the labor for the products to be manufactured, the bid will be the lowest.  Of course, we could always insist on going with a company who doesn't use prison labor and increasing our military budget, which will increase our taxes.  I'm sure the American people will really love that.

I have no issue with prisoners working in manufacturing because it is teaching them a skill they will be able to use when they are released.  Most people eligible to work are in prison for non violent crimes, like dealing drugs or theft.  If they are able to support themselves, they are less likely to return to crime.  Not sure what is so hard to understand about that.

Do you think the statistics are wrong or that cops are going around arresting only black men?  I mean, I live in a big city and cops respond to every call about a gunshot.  Not sure how they can skew the fact that black men are commiting more gun crimes than white men.


Quoting LindaClement:

They are bidding for contracts against other US companies that do not have access to $0.23/hr workers, with no HR, employee benefit, hiring or dismissal costs.

How can you mind jobs going to overseas sweatshop labour markets, if you don't mind jobs (and massive government contracts) going to corporations that pay sweatshop wages?

Do you believe that 1 in 9 black men commit crimes? TEN TIMES the rate of other angry, armed young men? Really?

Quoting quickbooksworm:

Actually, I don't have a huge issue with this.  It's a little murky due to the work being done under a private company.  However, they are manufacturing things for our government to use.  I don't know if anyone has ever bid on government work, but they don't want to pay jack shit.  It's possible the companies are giving the government a huge break on the cost of the items if they provide some or most of the labor.  The labor force for weapons is down because we have shipped these jobs overseas, not just to our prison system.  

As far as the prisoners doing the work, I don't see the issue.  They aren't forced.  Prisoners can work at those jobs or picking up garbage on the highway and it is a privledge because they get out for the day.  These are not prisoners who are a threat and have to have a history of good behavior.  It also gives them the opportunity to learn a trade so they can get a job when they get out.  Most people are not in prison their entire lives.  Poverty leads to crime, and if someone can support themselves in a legal way, they are less likely to return to prison later.  

I have an issue with the author of the article saying America is racist because we have such a large percentage of black men being in prison.  People need to stop doing stupid shit.  I'm not going to say white people don't commit crimes, because it's obvious they do.  So either the issue is economical, and we need to make sure all racial groups are given the same opportunities so they are less likely to commit crimes, or the issue is more black men are being convicted and sentenced more harshly in the judicial system.  Neither of these issues are the prison system itself.




LindaClement
by Thatwoman on Apr. 26, 2013 at 11:04 AM

As I've said: I'm not opposed to prisoners working, I'm opposed to corporations having extremely unfair wages that enable them to compete well below market prices against corporations who hire law-abiding citizens.

Quoting specialwingz:

 It's not sweatshop economics.  Inmates are getting free room and board along with free education (if they choose).  It is a well known fact that license plates used to be (may still be for that matter) produced by inmates.  There is nothing wrong with having them labor while incarcerated.  They earn more than money.  They have no need for money in prison.  They earn good behavior credit when they do things like this that will in turn, shorten their prison sentence.

So, what would you have prisoners do with all their spare time?

Quoting LindaClement:

I'm not having that argument --how prisoners are treated (apart from being Geneva Convention matters) are about the ethics of humanity, not the economics of sweatshops.

Quoting specialwingz:

 No, you missed my point.  I'm talking about the criminals in our correctional facilities.  Not the corporations.

Quoting LindaClement:

Sorry, you've completely missed the point:

The corporations who are benefitting from substantially-lower costs are NOT the criminals.

I think it's hypocritical, for a country where it is illegal to import any goods manufactured by slave, forced, indentured or prison labour, to grant massive government contracts to companies who make profits from exactly the same manufacturing by prisoners.

Quoting specialwingz:

These are CRIMINALS!!  They made their bad choices!   They are in prison to pay for those bad choices.  Not to have a grand ol' time in the cell block!  Why NOT make them earn their keep?  They did the crime.  It's NOT a race thing like slavery was!  It's paying a debt to society for breaking the law.  Not even comparable to slavery!

Do you think it's better that corporations out-source American jobs to 3rd world countries, leaving 33M unemployed American Citizens behind (that people bitch about because they have to draw unemployment and PA) to make a 500+% profit?  Many of the countries use CHILDREN!  Not to mention the pay they receive is not much more than is paid to US inmates.

From the sounds of it, you think THAT is acceptable.  Talk about a double standard!

Quoting LindaClement:

So, corporations who make body armour should get to pay 10% of market wages, for their own profits because of YOUR tax dollars?

Quoting specialwingz:

Totally agree with this.  Prisoners get educations on MY tax dollars.  They get full access to fully-equipt gyms (including olympic-sized pools) on MY tax dollars.  They get 3 meals a day and a warm bed at night on MY tax dollars.  They can damn well do something besides live off MY tax dollars.  I'd rather OUR prisoners be put to work than to send all the jobs to 3rd world countries where they use children for this!

Quoting romanceparty4u:

I'm all for it. If they could work 24/7 with nothing but bread and water, I'd be all for it. Save the taxpayer money, after all we have to pay for them to be in prison, so I don't think this is unfair or cruel

 


 


 


 


LindaClement
by Thatwoman on Apr. 26, 2013 at 11:06 AM

I do understand how the bidding process works: whoever was lucky enough to have a brother-in-law give him the contract for 'getting virtually free labour' will win the contract every single time.

This is grossly unfair to companies that are trying to win the same contracts, but who have to pay 17 times the wages.

Since it's not ONLY military or government suppliers, it's not the taxpayers getting a break, it's corporations undercutting the entire market.

Quoting quickbooksworm:

Do you not understand how bidding works? The company with the lowest bid gets the work.  If the government is essentially providing the labor for the products to be manufactured, the bid will be the lowest.  Of course, we could always insist on going with a company who doesn't use prison labor and increasing our military budget, which will increase our taxes.  I'm sure the American people will really love that.

I have no issue with prisoners working in manufacturing because it is teaching them a skill they will be able to use when they are released.  Most people eligible to work are in prison for non violent crimes, like dealing drugs or theft.  If they are able to support themselves, they are less likely to return to crime.  Not sure what is so hard to understand about that.

Do you think the statistics are wrong or that cops are going around arresting only black men?  I mean, I live in a big city and cops respond to every call about a gunshot.  Not sure how they can skew the fact that black men are commiting more gun crimes than white men.


Quoting LindaClement:

They are bidding for contracts against other US companies that do not have access to $0.23/hr workers, with no HR, employee benefit, hiring or dismissal costs.

How can you mind jobs going to overseas sweatshop labour markets, if you don't mind jobs (and massive government contracts) going to corporations that pay sweatshop wages?

Do you believe that 1 in 9 black men commit crimes? TEN TIMES the rate of other angry, armed young men? Really?

Quoting quickbooksworm:

Actually, I don't have a huge issue with this.  It's a little murky due to the work being done under a private company.  However, they are manufacturing things for our government to use.  I don't know if anyone has ever bid on government work, but they don't want to pay jack shit.  It's possible the companies are giving the government a huge break on the cost of the items if they provide some or most of the labor.  The labor force for weapons is down because we have shipped these jobs overseas, not just to our prison system.  

As far as the prisoners doing the work, I don't see the issue.  They aren't forced.  Prisoners can work at those jobs or picking up garbage on the highway and it is a privledge because they get out for the day.  These are not prisoners who are a threat and have to have a history of good behavior.  It also gives them the opportunity to learn a trade so they can get a job when they get out.  Most people are not in prison their entire lives.  Poverty leads to crime, and if someone can support themselves in a legal way, they are less likely to return to prison later.  

I have an issue with the author of the article saying America is racist because we have such a large percentage of black men being in prison.  People need to stop doing stupid shit.  I'm not going to say white people don't commit crimes, because it's obvious they do.  So either the issue is economical, and we need to make sure all racial groups are given the same opportunities so they are less likely to commit crimes, or the issue is more black men are being convicted and sentenced more harshly in the judicial system.  Neither of these issues are the prison system itself.





specialwingz
by on Apr. 26, 2013 at 11:13 AM

I understand your point. And, I respect the theory behind it.  However, the problem lies in the fact that many of these corporations do not hire law abiding US citizens.  They use other countries.

Quoting LindaClement:

As I've said: I'm not opposed to prisoners working, I'm opposed to corporations having extremely unfair wages that enable them to compete well below market prices against corporations who hire law-abiding citizens.

Quoting specialwingz:

 It's not sweatshop economics.  Inmates are getting free room and board along with free education (if they choose).  It is a well known fact that license plates used to be (may still be for that matter) produced by inmates.  There is nothing wrong with having them labor while incarcerated.  They earn more than money.  They have no need for money in prison.  They earn good behavior credit when they do things like this that will in turn, shorten their prison sentence.

So, what would you have prisoners do with all their spare time?

Quoting LindaClement:

I'm not having that argument --how prisoners are treated (apart from being Geneva Convention matters) are about the ethics of humanity, not the economics of sweatshops.

Quoting specialwingz:

 No, you missed my point.  I'm talking about the criminals in our correctional facilities.  Not the corporations.

Quoting LindaClement:

Sorry, you've completely missed the point:

The corporations who are benefitting from substantially-lower costs are NOT the criminals.

I think it's hypocritical, for a country where it is illegal to import any goods manufactured by slave, forced, indentured or prison labour, to grant massive government contracts to companies who make profits from exactly the same manufacturing by prisoners.

Quoting specialwingz:

These are CRIMINALS!!  They made their bad choices!   They are in prison to pay for those bad choices.  Not to have a grand ol' time in the cell block!  Why NOT make them earn their keep?  They did the crime.  It's NOT a race thing like slavery was!  It's paying a debt to society for breaking the law.  Not even comparable to slavery!

Do you think it's better that corporations out-source American jobs to 3rd world countries, leaving 33M unemployed American Citizens behind (that people bitch about because they have to draw unemployment and PA) to make a 500+% profit?  Many of the countries use CHILDREN!  Not to mention the pay they receive is not much more than is paid to US inmates.

From the sounds of it, you think THAT is acceptable.  Talk about a double standard!

Quoting LindaClement:

So, corporations who make body armour should get to pay 10% of market wages, for their own profits because of YOUR tax dollars?

Quoting specialwingz:

Totally agree with this.  Prisoners get educations on MY tax dollars.  They get full access to fully-equipt gyms (including olympic-sized pools) on MY tax dollars.  They get 3 meals a day and a warm bed at night on MY tax dollars.  They can damn well do something besides live off MY tax dollars.  I'd rather OUR prisoners be put to work than to send all the jobs to 3rd world countries where they use children for this!

Quoting romanceparty4u:

I'm all for it. If they could work 24/7 with nothing but bread and water, I'd be all for it. Save the taxpayer money, after all we have to pay for them to be in prison, so I don't think this is unfair or cruel

 


 


 


 



denise3680
by Gold Member on Apr. 26, 2013 at 11:23 AM
1 mom liked this

prisons and using prisoners is a cash cow for most states.  It does undermine wages and those jobs could go to people who need the work, but why pay living wages, health care, pensions or whatever if you can get damn near free work out of our prison population?  I am all for inmates learning a skill, getting an education, rehab or whatever is needed for those that will be getting out, but do not give them jobs that are so desperately needed for the population who have not done anything wrong:/ JMO

PinkButterfly66
by Gold Member on Apr. 26, 2013 at 11:34 AM
1 mom liked this

No I didn't know.  That is not right. They should be earning the same wages as everyone else for the same job.  The money should pay for their incarceration and a portion of it put in a bank account/trust for them when they are released.  

Sunshine257
by Bronze Member on Apr. 26, 2013 at 11:37 AM
I have an idea! Why don't we teach criminals how to make military weapons so we can profit! Morons...
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