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Baby taken from parents who sought second opinion

Baby taken from parents who sought second opinion removed from protective custody
Published April 30, 2013
FoxNews.com
One California couple is celebrating after a Sacramento county judge ordered their 5-month-old son be taken out of protective custody and transported to a Stanford hospital in Palo Alto, News 10 reported.
The decision came one week after police and Child Protective Services removed Anna and Alex Nikolayev’s son, Sammy, from the couple’s house. The reason: They had sought a second medical opinion for their child.
The Nikolayevs can now see Sammy whenever they want and have control over the child’s medical decisions, but CPS will continue to monitor the situation.
“It’s like a special day for us,” Anna told News 10, a local ABC affiliate. “We’re like a unit with our son again.”
The Nikolayevs, a young Russian couple living in Sacramento, took their 5-month-old son Sammy to Sutter Memorial Hospital in Sacramento when he started to exhibit flu-like symptoms. But when they arrived at the hospital, the couple became concerned about their son’s treatment, after Anna witnessed a nurse giving Sammy antibiotics – something a doctor had not instructed her to do.
After hearing their son needed open heart surgery as soon as possible, the Nikolayevs took Sammy out of Sutter Memorial without a formal discharge and rushed him to Kaiser Parmanente Medical Center in Sacramento, a rival hospital to Sutter. There, the child was deemed clinically safe to return home with his parents.
But just one day later, the police and CPS arrived to take Sammy from his parents. He was placed in protective custody, and the parents were granted limited visitation rights.
Now, by order of the judge, Sammy will stay at Stanford Medical Center, where he will get a second medical opinion. However, the couple must allow CPS to visit their home once Sammy is discharged, and they must agree to never take him from a hospital against medical advice.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/health/2013/04/30/baby-taken-from-parents-who-sought-second-opinion-removed-from-protective/#ixzz2Rzf3IGt6
by on Apr. 30, 2013 at 7:47 PM
Replies (31-40):
JoshRachelsMAMA
by JRM on Apr. 30, 2013 at 11:02 PM
It would drive me crazy knowing that my child is with strangers and probably terrified. Whose to say that those strangers won't hurt my child? It's happened before to other people..

Quoting viv212:

No you are wrong.



This is YOUR child and CPS can take it away without following proper procedure, which you can just say "that sucks". No, it's wrong.



Secondly, once it's determined that the child can be given back to their parents, but CPS still has to monitor them? Do you realize what this means? That CPS can enter your house any damn time they want and take the baby again. This means that the parents still have to wait for a court case until it is official that the parents can have their child back. Obviously you have never dealt with it but I have and you know what I learned? That there is no agency, or dept that you can contact in regards to CPS to file an appeal. They have you by the balls and you have no say so.



Try having no contact with your baby and no say so as to where this child goes when it leaves your home with a stranger in a county car. I'm sure you'll be singing a different tune.




Quoting Mrs.Kubalabuku:


Like I said, I feel awful for the family.

BUT

I can see how CPS justified it.

It might strike a nerve, but if you can somehow try to see if from a CPS worker's perspective you may learn something more.

Pretend you get a call that doctors claim this baby is in life or death situations.  You show up at the house, and what is the FIRST instinct going to be?  Take the baby to a doctor.  Remember, the doctors who reported this were certain the baby needed surgery and soon.  THEN start checking and investigating.  I'll say that not even letting them see the baby was very harsh.  But if they suspected they'd snatch and run, I can see how they would keep them away.  IMO, there is no reason they couldn't see pics or videos of the baby.  (There hasn't been much said on if they became threatening or belligerent during this process that would make them further restrict access to the baby.)

The fact is, there ARE proper channels they should have followed.  It sucks they didn't follow them and this happened.  But the stories I think should be in the media more are the ones where the was ZERO justification for them to take the baby.

Because really, CPS does more harm than good to many of the families they come across.  Why do we have to read about babies DYING and being left for weeks in bath tubs, all while CPS is "checking in" and then read stories about parents who made a mistake while trying to protect their baby losing him for any length of time at all?  

First, CPS has rules that must be followed.  Protocols and procedures.  But, they are convoluted, with so much being left open to the interpretation of the person.  It is a severely broken system.

But in THIS case, I can see why CPS became so concerned.  The parents took a child that might have died without proper medical care (for all they knew at the time they took him) out of the hospital without following proper procedures.  I think we'd all be crying foul if the child HAD died while between hospitals.

So if they are going to highlight the problems with CPS and the system, they need to tell us the stories about case workers who just go in and take with no reason at all.



Quoting viv212:

Let the government take your baby away from you so you can determine if it was resolved quickly. Which by the way it wasn't.





I don't mean to sound snappy but I've been through this so it touches a nerve. It strikes a nerve.






Quoting Mrs.Kubalabuku:


When the well-being of children are involved, I think they do err on guilty until proven innocent.

I'm glad this one resolved happily within a short time frame.  You are right, some people get their children taken away with FAR less reasoning than this, and lose them for years trying to prove their innocence.




Quoting viv212:

Or is it guilty until proven innocent?







This happens all the time, this couple just grabbed media attention.








Quoting Mrs.Kubalabuku:


I can't begin to imagine the feeling.  But the fact remains: they didn't know the baby would be OK when they took him from the hospital.  At the time they took him, it was believed he was in a life-threatening situation that needed medical monitoring to ensure his safety until the procedure.

If they were willing to take him then, WHY would CPS be forced to believe they would keep him safe?  I'm playing Devil's Advocate here.  I can see why they took him, I really can.  But legally, there were other channels they were supposed to follow to ensure his safety while a second opinion was being sought.  They did not follow those channels, and HAD he really had a heart problem, he could have died in the car between hospitals.

CPS is forced to look from the perspective of what could have happened, and how greatly they jeopardized his safety, not on "oh, well everything turned out OK."  So what CPS sees: Child is diagnosed with a life-threatening condition.  Parents leave with the child against medical advice.  They failed to ask for transport.  From the sounds of it, they failed to address most of their concerns with the medical staff adequately.  Again, it might have been the language barrier.

Now imagine you are the nurse or doctor.  You believe a child with a serious heart condition has just vanished from your hospital.  You worry he could die without proper medical care.  You make the call.

Now imagine you are CPS.  You hear what the doctors have to say.  You get copies of the medical information, and the fact the parents and child are now missing.  You get to the home, and take the child for further care.  The first priority is to take the child to a doctor.  From there, you consider the danger the parents put him in during unadvised, unsupervised transport to another hospital.  You follow the procedures in place.

Until you can investigate, you limit their access.

All in all, this process only took a week.  I don't think it was entirely unreasonable, though my heart DOES bleed for them.  I don't think they even knew all their options on getting a second opinion, so I am glad they were reunited with their baby.

If you look at their interviews, they aren't speaking the best English.  Also, by this point they have been groomed by lawyers on what to say.  it's a sad reality of our society.  Take their side, and the hospital's side, and split it down the middle and that is the closest to the truth we might come.





Quoting Healthystart30:

Quoting Mrs.Kubalabuku:












But the second hospital said the baby could go home. And they said themselves that someone had told them at the first hospital that the surgery wouldn't be done right away. As far as I know the baby hasn't had heart surgery yet and was in a foster home, not a hospital. I understand that sometimes hospitals have to overstep the boundaries when parents aren't doing what's best for the child, but I feel like this was about something else, and not about the welfare of the baby. And it's just scary that CPS can take a baby away, even though another doctor/hospital said the baby could go home.




And even if they didn't have the other hospitals report right away, they didn't let the parents take pictures or videos of their baby, and they were treated like criminals, only got to see the baby an hour at a time. Can you imagine the feeling?
















JoshRachelsMAMA
by JRM on Apr. 30, 2013 at 11:04 PM
1 mom liked this
I swear I would seriously consider moving to another state.
ashboot
by Member on Apr. 30, 2013 at 11:46 PM
Is this new for Sutter? My proxy her had his first open heart surgery at Sutter this was back in 95. His last one a couple of years ago was done at Standford but he had changed drs since the first surgery.


Quoting Sisteract:

Stanford is where all pediatric heart surgeries are done for Sutter Medical Center neonatal and pediatric patients. The baby was moved for prep for his pending surgery-


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viv212
by Gold Member on Apr. 30, 2013 at 11:48 PM
The problem with that is CPS will follow you.

And this is such a real fear that the parents have now that the child can be taken away again. It is seriously the most horrible fucked up experience I ever went through. My dd was taken away because the social worker said I drank to the point of passing out in front of dd regularly and abused her. Even after interviewing my dd who said that stuff never happened, I was signing over my custody not even 24 hours later. There was not a damn thing I could do about it.


Quoting JoshRachelsMAMA:

I swear I would seriously consider moving to another state.
JoshRachelsMAMA
by JRM on Apr. 30, 2013 at 11:49 PM
Not if you don't tell them.

Quoting viv212:

The problem with that is CPS will follow you.



And this is such a real fear that the parents have now that the child can be taken away again. It is seriously the most horrible fucked up experience I ever went through. My dd was taken away because the social worker said I drank to the point of passing out in front of dd regularly and abused her. Even after interviewing my dd who said that stuff never happened, I was signing over my custody not even 24 hours later. There was not a damn thing I could do about it.




Quoting JoshRachelsMAMA:

I swear I would seriously consider moving to another state.
JoshRachelsMAMA
by JRM on Apr. 30, 2013 at 11:49 PM
Why did you sign custody over? Did they force you?

Quoting viv212:

The problem with that is CPS will follow you.



And this is such a real fear that the parents have now that the child can be taken away again. It is seriously the most horrible fucked up experience I ever went through. My dd was taken away because the social worker said I drank to the point of passing out in front of dd regularly and abused her. Even after interviewing my dd who said that stuff never happened, I was signing over my custody not even 24 hours later. There was not a damn thing I could do about it.




Quoting JoshRachelsMAMA:

I swear I would seriously consider moving to another state.
la_bella_vita
by Bella on Apr. 30, 2013 at 11:51 PM
Scary
SewingMamaLele
by Leanne on May. 1, 2013 at 12:10 AM
If the hospital refused to discharge them, and they didn't know they could ask for a transport for a second opinion (clearly, the hospital didn't offer it, if it's something you have to fight for, as you said)... Then what are they supposed to do.. Just sit there being ignored waiting for another nurse to give incorrect meds? Or the reasonable thing, which is to remove your child from a potentially dangerous situation?

The hospital was wrong... I don't care of it's standard procedure, it's wrong and needs changed.


Quoting Mrs.Kubalabuku:


They should have followed proper discharge procedures.  They say they got substandard care, but nowhere in there do they even mention asking how to properly go about getting a second opinion.  They state they will take the baby, but they don't ask how to go about this safely.

I'm not saying they didn't do what they felt was right.  I'm not saying the hospital made no mistakes.  I AM saying this could have probably been avoided had they insisted on the second opinion and going to another hospital.  The doctors might have not liked it at first, but in the end they would likely have figured out how to transport the baby.

I have seen this first hand.  My friends had a premature baby with an infection.  They didn't feel the hospital they were at could treat him properly after watching nurses struggle to put IVs and such in his tiny veins. They requested a transfer to the children's hospital across town.  At first, it was denied because the nurses and doctors were worried to move him.  They demanded the transfer and stood their ground.  The doctors and nurses called the other hospital, got the special equipment brought in, and transferred him.  It can suck, you really have to stand your ground.  But there are safe ways to transport ill (or suspected ill) children to other hospitals.


Quoting Mrs_Nelson:

The mother has stated more than once that the baby was given drugs by a careless nurse against doctors instructions and after the mother mentioned this she was ignored. Also there has been no indication that the baby was at immediate risk of harm other than the report made to cps that was contradicted by another hospital and now by a judge. The parents were worried about the sub standard care their baby was receiving and wanted to get a second opinion. There is also a video of the police physically attacking the father and cps along with more police threatening the mother. These people were victimised by power mad government and hospital staff. They should have dropped the whol thing as soon as they realized that the parents took the baby directly to another hospital where the baby was cleared to go home. These parents very likely protected their baby from a dangerous and unnecessary surgery.





Quoting Mrs.Kubalabuku:


I can't begin to imagine the feeling.  But the fact remains: they didn't know the baby would be OK when they took him from the hospital.  At the time they took him, it was believed he was in a life-threatening situation that needed medical monitoring to ensure his safety until the procedure.

If they were willing to take him then, WHY would CPS be forced to believe they would keep him safe?  I'm playing Devil's Advocate here.  I can see why they took him, I really can.  But legally, there were other channels they were supposed to follow to ensure his safety while a second opinion was being sought.  They did not follow those channels, and HAD he really had a heart problem, he could have died in the car between hospitals.

CPS is forced to look from the perspective of what could have happened, and how greatly they jeopardized his safety, not on "oh, well everything turned out OK."  So what CPS sees: Child is diagnosed with a life-threatening condition.  Parents leave with the child against medical advice.  They failed to ask for transport.  From the sounds of it, they failed to address most of their concerns with the medical staff adequately.  Again, it might have been the language barrier.

Now imagine you are the nurse or doctor.  You believe a child with a serious heart condition has just vanished from your hospital.  You worry he could die without proper medical care.  You make the call.

Now imagine you are CPS.  You hear what the doctors have to say.  You get copies of the medical information, and the fact the parents and child are now missing.  You get to the home, and take the child for further care.  The first priority is to take the child to a doctor.  From there, you consider the danger the parents put him in during unadvised, unsupervised transport to another hospital.  You follow the procedures in place.

Until you can investigate, you limit their access.

All in all, this process only took a week.  I don't think it was entirely unreasonable, though my heart DOES bleed for them.  I don't think they even knew all their options on getting a second opinion, so I am glad they were reunited with their baby.

If you look at their interviews, they aren't speaking the best English.  Also, by this point they have been groomed by lawyers on what to say.  it's a sad reality of our society.  Take their side, and the hospital's side, and split it down the middle and that is the closest to the truth we might come.



Quoting Healthystart30:

Quoting Mrs.Kubalabuku:








But the second hospital said the baby could go home. And they said themselves that someone had told them at the first hospital that the surgery wouldn't be done right away. As far as I know the baby hasn't had heart surgery yet and was in a foster home, not a hospital. I understand that sometimes hospitals have to overstep the boundaries when parents aren't doing what's best for the child, but I feel like this was about something else, and not about the welfare of the baby. And it's just scary that CPS can take a baby away, even though another doctor/hospital said the baby could go home.


And even if they didn't have the other hospitals report right away, they didn't let the parents take pictures or videos of their baby, and they were treated like criminals, only got to see the baby an hour at a time. Can you imagine the feeling?










stazone
by New Member on May. 1, 2013 at 12:15 AM
2 moms liked this

We had our son taken in late December by CPS for this same reason.  Doctor said our son was FTT even though he was born low birth weight.  We doubled his weight in 5 months and went for a check up.  We didn't like the Similac recommendation and decided to see another Doctor.  Too late.  CPS showed up and forced us to go to the hospital.  After being there for 5 hours and doctors finding nothing wrong with our son, we decided to leave. 


At present we see him for 8 hours a day and have been moved up to overnights on the weekends.  Yes we get him everyday but these sociopaths won't get out of our lives.


I really feel for this couple.  CPS should be put out of it's missery.  Child abuse is at all time lows but they just keep hammering away at the Federal Funding. 

SewingMamaLele
by Leanne on May. 1, 2013 at 12:21 AM
1 mom liked this
I know there are many more stories just like yours and it completely breaks my heart. That the state would see fit to take a baby from loving parents... And why on earth don't you have custody back???? I'd be contacting some major news stations like this family did.

Quoting stazone:

We had our son taken in late December by CPS for this same reason.  Doctor said our son was FTT even though he was born low birth weight.  We doubled his weight in 5 months and went for a check up.  We didn't like the Similac recommendation and decided to see another Doctor.  Too late.  CPS showed up and forced us to go to the hospital.  After being there for 5 hours and doctors finding nothing wrong with our son, we decided to leave. 


At present we see him for 8 hours a day and have been moved up to overnights on the weekends.  Yes we get him everyday but these sociopaths won't get out of our lives.


I really feel for this couple.  CPS should be put out of it's missery.  Child abuse is at all time lows but they just keep hammering away at the Federal Funding. 

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