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Agree or Disagree? When Christians become a 'hated minority', uproar about an ESPN commentor's statement about a gay athlete

Posted by on May. 5, 2013 at 8:28 AM
  • 176 Replies
When Christians become a 'hated minority'
Evangelical Christians say they are the new victims of intolerance - they're persecuted for condemning homosexuality.
May 5th, 2013
06:00 AM ET

When Christians become a 'hated minority'

By John Blake, CNN

(CNN) - When Peter Sprigg speaks publicly about his opposition to homosexuality, something odd often happens.

During his speeches, people raise their hands to challenge his assertions that the Bible condemns homosexuality, but no Christians speak out to defend him.

“But after it is over, they will come over to talk to me and whisper in my ear, ‘I agree with everything you said,’" says Sprigg, a spokesman for The Family Research Council, a powerful, conservative Christian lobbying group.

We’ve heard of the “down-low” gay person who keeps his or her sexual identity secret for fear of public scorn. But Sprigg and other evangelicals say changing attitudes toward homosexuality have created a new victim: closeted Christians who believe the Bible condemns homosexuality but will not say so publicly for fear of being labeled a hateful bigot.

As proof, Sprigg points to the backlash that ESPN commentator Chris Broussard sparked recently. Broussard was called a bigot and a purveyor of hate speech when he said an NBA player who had come out as gay was living in “open rebellion to God.” Broussard said the player, Jason Collins, was “living in unrepentant sin” because the Bible condemns homosexuality.

“In the current culture, it takes more courage for someone like Chris Broussard to speak out than for someone like Jason Collins to come out,” says Sprigg, a former pastor. “The media will hail someone who comes out of the closet as gay, but someone who simply expresses their personal religious views about homosexual conduct is attacked.”

When is disagreement hate?

Bryan Litfin, a theology professor at Moody Bible Institute in Illinois, says Christians should be able to publicly say that God designed sex to take place within a marriage between a man and a woman.

“That isn’t so outrageous,” Litfin says. “Nobody is expressing hate toward homosexuals by saying that. Since when is disagreement the same as hate?”

But quoting the Bible doesn't inoculate anyone from becoming a bigot or hater, some scholars say. There's a point at which a Christian's opposition to homosexuality can become bigotry, and even hate speech, they say.

Crossing such a line has happened many times in history.

A literal reading of the Bible was used to justify all sorts of hatred: slavery, the subjugation of women and anti-Semitism, scholars and pastors say.

“Truly damaging speech cannot be excused just because it expresses genuine religious belief,” says Mark D. Jordan, author of “Recruiting Young Love: How Christians Talk about Homosexuality.”

“Some religious beliefs, sincerely held, are detestable. They cannot be spoken without disrupting social peace,” says Jordan, a professor at the John Danforth Center on Religion & Politics at Washington University in St. Louis.

The point where religious speech becomes hate speech is difficult to define, though, scholars and activists say.

The Southern Poverty Law Center in Alabama is a nonprofit civil rights group that combats and monitors hate groups. Three years ago, it designated the Family Research Council, the group that Sprigg represents, as a hate group - a characterization the group stridently rejects.

Mark Potok,  a center spokesman, says there’s no shared definition of what constitutes hate speech.

“There is no legal meaning. It’s just a phrase,” Potok says. “Hate speech is in the ear of the beholder.”

Nerdy White Person

by on May. 5, 2013 at 8:28 AM
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NWP
by guerrilla girl on May. 5, 2013 at 8:29 AM

The rest of the article:

'One of the most hated minorities?'

Intolerance may be difficult to define, but some evangelicals say they have become victims of intolerance because of their reverence for the Bible.

The conservative media culture is filled with stories about evangelicals being labeled as “extremists” for their belief that homosexuality is a sin.

Their sense of persecution goes beyond their stance on homosexuality. There are stories circulating of evangelical students being suspended for opposing homosexuality, a teacher fired for giving a Bible to a curious student, and the rise of anti-Christian bigotry.

A blogger at The American Dream asked in one essay:

“Are evangelical Christians rapidly becoming one of the most hated minorities in America?”

The reluctance of evangelicals to speak out against homosexuality is often cited as proof they are being forced into the closet.

Joe Carter, editor for The Gospel Coalition, an online evangelical magazine, wrote a blog post entitled “Debatable: Is the Christian Church a ‘Hate Group’?" He warned that young people will abandon “orthodox” Christian churches that teach that homosexuality is a sin for fear of being called haters.

“Faux civility, embarrassment, prudishness and a fear of expressing an unpopular opinion has caused many Christians to refrain from explaining how homosexual conduct destroys lives,” Carter wrote.

Some Christians fear that opposing homosexuality could cause them to lose their jobs and “haunt them forever,” Carter says.

“It’s easier to just go along,” says Carter, who is also author of “How to Argue Like Jesus.” “You don’t want to be lumped in with the bigots. That’s a powerful word."

Edward Johnson, a communication professor at Campbell University in North Carolina, says we are now living in a "postmodern" era where everything is relative and there is no universally accepted truth. It's an environment in which anyone who says "this is right" and "that is wrong" is labeled intolerant, he says.

There was a time when a person could publicly say homosexuality was wrong and people could consider the statement without anger, he says. Today, people have reverted to an intellectual tribalism where they are only willing to consider the perspective of their own tribe.

“They are incapable of comprehending that someone may have a view different than theirs,” Johnson says. “For them anyone who dares to question the dogma of the tribe can only be doing so out of hatred.”

Sprigg, from the Family Research Council, says his condemnation of homosexual conduct does not spring from intolerance but a desire to protect gays from harmful conduct, he says.

Sprigg, a senior fellow for policy studies at the council, wrote in a council pamphlet that homosexual men are more likely to engage in child sexual abuse than are straight men. He also wrote that gay men are also afflicted with a higher rate of sexually transmitted diseases and mental illness as well.

Sprigg says he does not believe homosexuality is a choice and that “personal testimonies" and "clinical experience” show that some people “can and do change from gay to straight.”

“Maybe we need to do a better job of showing that we are motivated by Christian love,” Sprigg says. “Love is wanting the best for someone, and acting to bring that about.”

'That's a lie'

Potok, from the Southern Poverty Law Center, has little use for the love Sprigg talks about.

He calls it hatred, and his voice rose in anger when he talked about the claims by Sprigg and other Christian groups that gay men are more predisposed to molest children and that homosexual behavior is inherently harmful.

He says the Southern Poverty Law Center didn’t designate the Family Research Group a hate group because they view homosexuality as a sin or oppose same-sex marriage, Potok says. There are plenty of Christian groups who hold those beliefs but are not hate groups, he says.

A group becomes a hate group when it attacks and maligns an entire class of people for their “immutable characteristics,” Potok says. The Family Research Council spreads known falsehoods about gays and lesbians, he says, such as the contention that gay men are predisposed to abuse children.

“That’s a lie,” Potok says. “These guys are engaging in straight-up defamation of a very large group of people. There are not many things much worse than you can say in America about somebody than they are a child molester.”

Potok scoffed at Spriggs’ claim that the council and other evangelical anti-gay groups are victims of intolerance.

“That’s whining on the part of people who spend their days and nights attacking gay people and then some people criticize them and they don’t like it,” he says. “That’s pathetic. It reminds me of slave owners complaining that people are saying ugly things about them.”

What the Bible says

What about the popular evangelical claim, “We don’t hate the sinner, just the sin” – is that seen as intolerance or hate speech when it comes to homosexuality?

There are those who say you can’t hate the sin and love the sinner because being gay or lesbian is defined by one’s sexual behavior; it’s who someone is.

“Most people who identify as gay and lesbian would say that this is not an action I’m choosing to do; this is who I am,” says Timothy Beal, author of “The Rise and Fall of the Bible: The Unexpected History of an Accidental Book.”

Beal, a religion professor at Case Western University in Ohio, says it should be difficult for any Christian to unequivocally declare that the Bible opposes homosexuality because the Bible doesn’t take a single position on the topic. It's an assertion that many scholars and mainline Protestant pastors would agree with.

Some people cite Old Testament scriptures as condemning homosexuality, such as  Leviticus 18:22 - “If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination.” But other Christians counter by saying they are not bound by the Old Testament.

There are those who also cite New Testament scriptures like Romans 1:26-27 - “… Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men. …”

Beal, however, says Jesus said little about sex. And the Apostle Paul, who wrote Romans, was probably referring to male prostitution and men having sexual relations with boys, a practice in the Greco-Roman world.

“Paul does not understand genetics and sexual orientation the way we understand it now as something much more than a choice,” says Beal.

Some evangelicals say Christians can’t change their view of biblical truth just because times change. But some scholars reply:

Sure you can. Christians do it all the time.

Denying a woman’s ability to preach in church was justified by scriptures like 1 Timothy 2:11-12 - “… I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.” But many churches have abandoned that teaching - and some scholars say a woman preached the first Christian sermon, when Mary Magdalene proclaimed that Jesus had risen.

Slaveholders in 19th century America justified slavery through a literal reading of the Bible, quoting Titus 2:9-10 – “Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything. …” And anti-Semitism was justified by the claims that Jews killed Jesus, such as Matthew 27: 25-26 - “Let his blood be on us and on our children.”

Litfin, from Moody Bible Institute, acknowledged that the Bible once sanctioned slavery, but he said that practice was a “cultural expression” that changed over time. Evangelicals who oppose same-sex marriage by citing the Bible are on more solid ground, he says.

“Marriage is a universal and timeless institution that God set up for maximum human flourishing. He set it up in the first book of the Bible with the story of Adam and Eve. It is consistent throughout the whole Bible. … Marriage is in a different category than those cultural things.”

Public jousts over the Bible's stance on homosexuality rarely change people’s minds. What changes is when people get to know gay and lesbian people as friends and hear their story, says Beal, author of “The Rise and Fall of the Bible.”

“If you open up to that other person genuinely, you basically come to a point where you have to sacrifice them to your ideology or crack open your ideology to make a hospitable place for them,” Beal says.

One Christian pastor who is gay says the uproar over the ESPN commentator’s comments can actually be good,  because debates help settle moral disputes.

“What appears to us as antiquated and prejudicial now was once a disputed issue that required debate,” says the Rev. Richard McCarty, a minister in the United Church of Christ and a religious studies professor at Mercyhurst University in Pennsylvania.

Until the debate over homosexuality is settled - if it ever is - there may be plenty of evangelical Christians who feel as if they are now being forced to stay in the closet.

Carter, the evangelical blogger, says he foresees a day when any church that preaches against homosexuality will be marginalized. Just as many churches now accept divorce, they will accept sexual practices once considered sinful.

“It’s getting to the point,” he says, “where churches are not going to say that any sexual activity is wrong.”

Neon Washable Paint

NWP
by guerrilla girl on May. 5, 2013 at 8:31 AM

From the article:

“They are incapable of comprehending that someone may have a view different than theirs,” Johnson says. “For them anyone who dares to question the dogma of the tribe can only be doing so out of hatred.”

Seasidegirl
by Gold Member on May. 5, 2013 at 8:42 AM
8 moms liked this

Fundamentalist Bible thumpers have something wrong with them. Seriously. They are all a bunch of uneducated, unable-to-think-for-themselves freaks running away from their nasty pasts.

Then, because their views are so outdated (1800's) and people laugh at their asshattery, they scream VICTIM. That then gives them this imaginary special status because somewhere in the Bible it says something about those who go the difficult way and are persecuted are those who will be saved when Jesus opens up the clouds and swoops down for the freaks while the rest of us burn in hell.

Well, wait, George Carlin wraps it all up much better than I ever could. Enjoy:

NWP
by guerrilla girl on May. 5, 2013 at 8:44 AM
5 moms liked this

IDK....I just don't see how disagreeing with what someone thinks translates into "hatred"...

lancet98
by Silver Member on May. 5, 2013 at 8:51 AM
10 moms liked this

I have a suggestion.

Evangelicals stop ranting on and on about how your religion needs to be put into the government.

Evangelicals stop ranting on and on about how all gays are going to hell and sinning.

Also consider stop ganging up on and harrassing and harranguing every woman who is considering abortion and telling them they are going to hell and sinning.

Oh.    And stop going on and on about how Muslims are evil and sinning and going to hell.  Oh, yeah, ditto on Hindus, Buddhists, traditional religions, animists, agnostics, atheists, naturists, etc.

Oh.   And stop going on and on about how everyone who is not in your Christian denomination - Catholics, Orthodox, Coptic, etc, are 'not actually Christians' and are going to hell and are sinning.

Oh.   The list goes on and on.

Trouble is, evangelicals are getting a taste of their own medicine.   

 The hatred they are proclaiming is coming back to bite them on the a**.

Can't take it, can yas!  LOL.   If you're going to dish it out constantly you're going to get some of it yourself from time to time.

Stop judging, hating and proclaiming how much better you are than everyone else.

Guess what?  

 You're not God's messenger.  

Keep your beliefs to yourself, if you still insist on believing such non Christian selfserving nonsense, and stop bothering people.

You reap what you sow, as it says in the Bible.

Stop preaching hate.  

Bookwormy
by Platinum Member on May. 5, 2013 at 8:58 AM
1 mom liked this
A literal reading of the Bible was used to justify all sorts of hatred: slavery, the subjugation of women and anti-Semitism, scholars and pastors say.

“Truly damaging speech cannot be excused just because it expresses genuine religious belief,” says Mark D. Jordan, author of “Recruiting Young Love: How Christians Talk about Homosexuality.”

“Some religious beliefs, sincerely held, are detestable. They cannot be spoken without disrupting social peace,” says Jordan, a professor at the John Danforth Center on Religion & Politics at Washington University in St. Louis.

Public jousts over the Bible's stance on homosexuality rarely change people’s minds. What changes is when people get to know gay and lesbian people as friends and hear their story, says Beal, author of “The Rise and Fall of the Bible.”

“If you open up to that other person genuinely, you basically come to a point where you have to sacrifice them to your ideology or crack open your ideology to make a hospitable place for them,” Beal says.

The 2 quotes above are *truth* as I know it.

People used the Bible to prove slavery was right & interfaith marriage was wrong. Those sincerely held religious beliefs were wrong & hateful, period, end of story.

I am finding that if I am a genuinely decent human being and a good mom, it is harder & harder to reject me, & therefore my sexual orientation.
Bookwormy
by Platinum Member on May. 5, 2013 at 9:06 AM
3 moms liked this
As the SPLC pointed out, lots of groups disagree with homosexuality & aren't listed on the hate group list. It takes being hateful & calling gays child molesters & the like to be a hate group.

The ESPN dude isn't a hater, he's just a sinner. He called the athlete a sinner, but he is too. When you go around speaking poorly of others, especially in a public forum, seems like a sin to me. He wasn't spewing love, that's for sure!


Quoting NWP:

IDK....I just don't see how disagreeing with what someone thinks translates into "hatred"...


VeronicaTex
by on May. 5, 2013 at 9:49 AM
6 moms liked this

I first want to thank you for making this post, and giving us a chance to "agree or disagree"'.  

This is the free choice that we as women of debate have.

I am one that does disagree with the movement of homosexuality and am one that will always uphold Bible teachings on the subject.

Therefore, I agree with what you say:  "I just don't see how disagreeing with what someone thinks,  translates into "hatred".

I believe in God and follow Him.

That does not make me a hater.

Veronica-Roman Catholic.



Quoting NWP:

IDK....I just don't see how disagreeing with what someone thinks translates into "hatred"...



tnmomofive
by Bronze Member on May. 5, 2013 at 9:53 AM
1 mom liked this


This

Quoting VeronicaTex:

I first want to thank you for making this post, and giving us a chance to "agree or disagree"'.  

This is the free choice that we as women of debate have.

I am one that does disagree with the movement of homosexuality and am one that will always uphold Bible teachings on the subject.

Therefore, I agree with what you say:  "I just don't see how disagreeing with what someone thinks,  translates into "hatred".

I believe in God and follow Him.

That does not make me a hater.

Veronica-Roman Catholic.



Quoting NWP:

IDK....I just don't see how disagreeing with what someone thinks translates into "hatred"...




jaxTheMomm
by Platinum Member on May. 5, 2013 at 9:54 AM
6 moms liked this

I read this piece just this morning and found it really interesting.

The evangelical movement is slowly painting itself into a corner with it's very literal translations of some parts of the OT. 

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