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Another Atheist whining about bibles....

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An atheist in Georgia is launching an assault on the presence of Bibles in a state-run vacation lodge. Ed Buckner, an author and the former head of American Atheists, an organization devoted to church-state separatism, apparently complained last month after he found Gideon Bibles at a lodge he rented in North Georgia.

While Buckner, 67, believes that the presence of the holy books represents a violation of the separation of church and state, some politicians, including Gov. Nathan Deal, a Republican, disagree with this assessment, Reuters reports.

After his stay at the lodge, Buckner complained and the Georgia Department of Natural Resources then reportedly removed the books from cabins and rooms at state parks while the issue was being reviewed. However, Deal ordered that the Bibles be returned — an action that is sure to draw the ire of atheist activists.

In fact, Buckner is considering a lawsuit and is calling the scenario “outrageous.” It isn’t uncommon for activists to take to the courts, as TheBlaze has repeatedly highlighted, to make their grievances heard.

“I can very much imagine this turning into a lawsuit,” he said, according to Reuters. “It’s outrageous that anybody thinks this is acceptable.”

In a statement, though, Deal noted that he and the state’s attorney general, Sam Olens, are in agreement that the return and general inclusion of the Bibles is permissible.

“These Bibles are donated by outside groups, not paid for by the state, and I do not believe that a Bible in a bedside table drawer constitutes a state establishment of religion,” the governor said. “In fact, any group is free to donate literature.”

A Gideons spokesperson told Reuters that the organization, which is said to have donated billions of Bibles since its inception, has not yet seen the presence of their books challenged in other states. As for the governor’s pledge to allow other literature, atheist activists may end up taking him up on that offer, as they have taken similar stances and actions in the past.

(H/T: Reuters)


by on May. 16, 2013 at 2:24 PM
Replies (601-605):
-Celestial-
by Pepperlynn on May. 22, 2013 at 11:07 AM
2 moms liked this

USBrit
by Bronze Member on May. 22, 2013 at 3:46 PM

Maybe they just see it as one and the same thing, but are expressing themselves in a manner that you don't agree with, you think?

Quoting LindaClement:

I agree: the oversimplification and reductionism is intentional. You can't be justifiably outraged by a context-free fact if you go around letting the context in.

Quoting romalove:


Quoting USBrit:

Obviously, you didn't read my other post that stated that I don't believe that this situation rises to being a voilation of the constitution and its amendments. It is not willful ignorance, some of us did try to explain why we took the position we did. A book in a drawer to us does not represent an endorsement. However, if there was required reading of that book, that would be different. Just as there are religious stations on the TV available. It is up to the person as to whether they actually read or watch. No government official is requiring either. AND, they have stated that they will accept other material for guests reading pleasure. So........how have they voilated anyone's rights? Does, this guy have the right to "sue"! YEP! but what a waste of taxpayes money, if he does. Hopefully, he will just send his books and the problem will be solved.

Quoting romalove:

Quoting USBrit:

No Roma, we completely understand. We are not the uneducated people you would believe we are, we just don't see that this rises to the level of being a voilation of the 1st amendment. So, please don't assume that we are just too stupid to understand what your position is. We just don't AGREE!

Quoting romalove:


Quoting PurdueMom:

This response is a typical Christian response that avoids the real issue.  

Quoting mcknitro:

Not to mention if you touch drug paraphenalia or your children do, these items could have horrific consequences - illness and possibly death.  If you accidentally touch a bible, oohh what happens?  Do you think you will burn because your not a believer?  Sorry it doesnt work that way.  I would not be offended by any one elses religious literature.  Satanic text might give me the creeps and I might start thinking about all those horror movies depicted in hotels and may not stay there again, but as long as there are not photos and it is just text as are the bibles found in hotels, I would not care.  People need to stop being so sensitive.  Why are they so threatened by every little thing.  I think its a waste of taxpayers money to have to debate this in court.  If other religions want to contribute their literature, they should be free to do so.  I believe what I believe and you are free to do the same.  A book in a hotel is not going to change that.  What are you people so afraid of?


Quoting Farmlady09:

It's a bad point because if there are drugs or other illegal items someone IS forced to call the front desk or the police. A Bible doesn't cause that sort of uproar and inconvenience.

Same goes for the rest ... if housecleaning missed that crud, you can bet I'd be requesting another room because who knows what else they missed. Just sayin.

Were you attacked by a Bible at some point or something?


Quoting LindaClement:

Actually, you missed the point. The POINT I was refuting was 'no one is forced to touch it' ... which is a stupid argument, demonstrated by replacing the 'it' in question with any other 'it' possible.



There is a willful ignorance to the issue presented in the OP, and this can be seen because of the constant attempt to frame this about it being about the Bible itself, and what can it hurt, and if you don't believe in it it's nothing to you, etc.

There are only two issues here that I think are on point and worthy of discussion.

There is the potential First Amendment infringement by having a religious text made available in state run vacation lodges.

And then there is the right of the complainer to complain, that it isn't about whining but about an American citizen seeing something he deems worthy of complaint and then asserting his right to do so.

Everything else is sand being thrown to obscure those two issues, because, of course, those two issues are relatively difficult to argue against.

I don't think you're uneducated.

I think it's a willful ignorance, meaning, you "know" what I am saying but refuse to acknowledge it.

I can have a discussion with someone who says "I don't think this is a First Amendment violation" and why.

I can't have one with someone who says "the Bible isn't hurting anyone" or "the atheist is just whining" or "this person is angry with God".

I respect your right to have your opinion.

We did, you and I, go over this before.

I think it's a close call but that the complainer has the right to complain and I don't think it's a waste of money if he does.

I also think that there are far more people saying stuff about how the Bible isn't hurting anyone and complaining about the whining atheist than actually discussing what I see as the actual issues.



LindaClement
by Thatwoman on May. 22, 2013 at 6:08 PM

Disagreeing is one thing --in order to do so, it needs to include more than the same phrase repeated over and over again. That's dogma, not conversation.

Responding to the questions and points made, while forming a rational argument to support the different opinion is conversation.

I have no interest in living in a world of people who all agree with me, and can't think of a duller criteria for friendship. What I can't deal with is oversimplification of an issue to the point of propaganda.

The difference of opinion in this case isn't because they think differently, it's because they show no evidence of the ability to think.

Quoting USBrit:

Maybe they just see it as one and the same thing, but are expressing themselves in a manner that you don't agree with, you think?

Quoting LindaClement:

I agree: the oversimplification and reductionism is intentional. You can't be justifiably outraged by a context-free fact if you go around letting the context in.

Quoting romalove:


Quoting USBrit:

Obviously, you didn't read my other post that stated that I don't believe that this situation rises to being a voilation of the constitution and its amendments. It is not willful ignorance, some of us did try to explain why we took the position we did. A book in a drawer to us does not represent an endorsement. However, if there was required reading of that book, that would be different. Just as there are religious stations on the TV available. It is up to the person as to whether they actually read or watch. No government official is requiring either. AND, they have stated that they will accept other material for guests reading pleasure. So........how have they voilated anyone's rights? Does, this guy have the right to "sue"! YEP! but what a waste of taxpayes money, if he does. Hopefully, he will just send his books and the problem will be solved.

Quoting romalove:

Quoting USBrit:

No Roma, we completely understand. We are not the uneducated people you would believe we are, we just don't see that this rises to the level of being a voilation of the 1st amendment. So, please don't assume that we are just too stupid to understand what your position is. We just don't AGREE!

Quoting romalove:


Quoting PurdueMom:

This response is a typical Christian response that avoids the real issue.  

Quoting mcknitro:

Not to mention if you touch drug paraphenalia or your children do, these items could have horrific consequences - illness and possibly death.  If you accidentally touch a bible, oohh what happens?  Do you think you will burn because your not a believer?  Sorry it doesnt work that way.  I would not be offended by any one elses religious literature.  Satanic text might give me the creeps and I might start thinking about all those horror movies depicted in hotels and may not stay there again, but as long as there are not photos and it is just text as are the bibles found in hotels, I would not care.  People need to stop being so sensitive.  Why are they so threatened by every little thing.  I think its a waste of taxpayers money to have to debate this in court.  If other religions want to contribute their literature, they should be free to do so.  I believe what I believe and you are free to do the same.  A book in a hotel is not going to change that.  What are you people so afraid of?


Quoting Farmlady09:

It's a bad point because if there are drugs or other illegal items someone IS forced to call the front desk or the police. A Bible doesn't cause that sort of uproar and inconvenience.

Same goes for the rest ... if housecleaning missed that crud, you can bet I'd be requesting another room because who knows what else they missed. Just sayin.

Were you attacked by a Bible at some point or something?


Quoting LindaClement:

Actually, you missed the point. The POINT I was refuting was 'no one is forced to touch it' ... which is a stupid argument, demonstrated by replacing the 'it' in question with any other 'it' possible.



There is a willful ignorance to the issue presented in the OP, and this can be seen because of the constant attempt to frame this about it being about the Bible itself, and what can it hurt, and if you don't believe in it it's nothing to you, etc.

There are only two issues here that I think are on point and worthy of discussion.

There is the potential First Amendment infringement by having a religious text made available in state run vacation lodges.

And then there is the right of the complainer to complain, that it isn't about whining but about an American citizen seeing something he deems worthy of complaint and then asserting his right to do so.

Everything else is sand being thrown to obscure those two issues, because, of course, those two issues are relatively difficult to argue against.

I don't think you're uneducated.

I think it's a willful ignorance, meaning, you "know" what I am saying but refuse to acknowledge it.

I can have a discussion with someone who says "I don't think this is a First Amendment violation" and why.

I can't have one with someone who says "the Bible isn't hurting anyone" or "the atheist is just whining" or "this person is angry with God".

I respect your right to have your opinion.

We did, you and I, go over this before.

I think it's a close call but that the complainer has the right to complain and I don't think it's a waste of money if he does.

I also think that there are far more people saying stuff about how the Bible isn't hurting anyone and complaining about the whining atheist than actually discussing what I see as the actual issues.




USBrit
by Bronze Member on May. 22, 2013 at 8:16 PM

In your opinion, some of us can actually have a conversation with few words and get our points across. BUT, if you need to talk endlessly.....feel free! 

Quoting LindaClement:

Disagreeing is one thing --in order to do so, it needs to include more than the same phrase repeated over and over again. That's dogma, not conversation.

Responding to the questions and points made, while forming a rational argument to support the different opinion is conversation.

I have no interest in living in a world of people who all agree with me, and can't think of a duller criteria for friendship. What I can't deal with is oversimplification of an issue to the point of propaganda.

The difference of opinion in this case isn't because they think differently, it's because they show no evidence of the ability to think.

Quoting USBrit:

Maybe they just see it as one and the same thing, but are expressing themselves in a manner that you don't agree with, you think?

Quoting LindaClement:

I agree: the oversimplification and reductionism is intentional. You can't be justifiably outraged by a context-free fact if you go around letting the context in.

Quoting romalove:


Quoting USBrit:

Obviously, you didn't read my other post that stated that I don't believe that this situation rises to being a voilation of the constitution and its amendments. It is not willful ignorance, some of us did try to explain why we took the position we did. A book in a drawer to us does not represent an endorsement. However, if there was required reading of that book, that would be different. Just as there are religious stations on the TV available. It is up to the person as to whether they actually read or watch. No government official is requiring either. AND, they have stated that they will accept other material for guests reading pleasure. So........how have they voilated anyone's rights? Does, this guy have the right to "sue"! YEP! but what a waste of taxpayes money, if he does. Hopefully, he will just send his books and the problem will be solved.

Quoting romalove:

Quoting USBrit:

No Roma, we completely understand. We are not the uneducated people you would believe we are, we just don't see that this rises to the level of being a voilation of the 1st amendment. So, please don't assume that we are just too stupid to understand what your position is. We just don't AGREE!

Quoting romalove:


Quoting PurdueMom:

This response is a typical Christian response that avoids the real issue.  

Quoting mcknitro:

Not to mention if you touch drug paraphenalia or your children do, these items could have horrific consequences - illness and possibly death.  If you accidentally touch a bible, oohh what happens?  Do you think you will burn because your not a believer?  Sorry it doesnt work that way.  I would not be offended by any one elses religious literature.  Satanic text might give me the creeps and I might start thinking about all those horror movies depicted in hotels and may not stay there again, but as long as there are not photos and it is just text as are the bibles found in hotels, I would not care.  People need to stop being so sensitive.  Why are they so threatened by every little thing.  I think its a waste of taxpayers money to have to debate this in court.  If other religions want to contribute their literature, they should be free to do so.  I believe what I believe and you are free to do the same.  A book in a hotel is not going to change that.  What are you people so afraid of?


Quoting Farmlady09:

It's a bad point because if there are drugs or other illegal items someone IS forced to call the front desk or the police. A Bible doesn't cause that sort of uproar and inconvenience.

Same goes for the rest ... if housecleaning missed that crud, you can bet I'd be requesting another room because who knows what else they missed. Just sayin.

Were you attacked by a Bible at some point or something?


Quoting LindaClement:

Actually, you missed the point. The POINT I was refuting was 'no one is forced to touch it' ... which is a stupid argument, demonstrated by replacing the 'it' in question with any other 'it' possible.



There is a willful ignorance to the issue presented in the OP, and this can be seen because of the constant attempt to frame this about it being about the Bible itself, and what can it hurt, and if you don't believe in it it's nothing to you, etc.

There are only two issues here that I think are on point and worthy of discussion.

There is the potential First Amendment infringement by having a religious text made available in state run vacation lodges.

And then there is the right of the complainer to complain, that it isn't about whining but about an American citizen seeing something he deems worthy of complaint and then asserting his right to do so.

Everything else is sand being thrown to obscure those two issues, because, of course, those two issues are relatively difficult to argue against.

I don't think you're uneducated.

I think it's a willful ignorance, meaning, you "know" what I am saying but refuse to acknowledge it.

I can have a discussion with someone who says "I don't think this is a First Amendment violation" and why.

I can't have one with someone who says "the Bible isn't hurting anyone" or "the atheist is just whining" or "this person is angry with God".

I respect your right to have your opinion.

We did, you and I, go over this before.

I think it's a close call but that the complainer has the right to complain and I don't think it's a waste of money if he does.

I also think that there are far more people saying stuff about how the Bible isn't hurting anyone and complaining about the whining atheist than actually discussing what I see as the actual issues.





LindaClement
by Thatwoman on May. 23, 2013 at 1:12 PM

I can also be blunt. 

Repetition of the same 8 words isn't 'getting your point across' nor 'responding to the depth or complexity of the rebuttal.'

Quoting USBrit:

In your opinion, some of us can actually have a conversation with few words and get our points across. BUT, if you need to talk endlessly.....feel free! 

Quoting LindaClement:

Disagreeing is one thing --in order to do so, it needs to include more than the same phrase repeated over and over again. That's dogma, not conversation.

Responding to the questions and points made, while forming a rational argument to support the different opinion is conversation.

I have no interest in living in a world of people who all agree with me, and can't think of a duller criteria for friendship. What I can't deal with is oversimplification of an issue to the point of propaganda.

The difference of opinion in this case isn't because they think differently, it's because they show no evidence of the ability to think.

Quoting USBrit:

Maybe they just see it as one and the same thing, but are expressing themselves in a manner that you don't agree with, you think?

Quoting LindaClement:

I agree: the oversimplification and reductionism is intentional. You can't be justifiably outraged by a context-free fact if you go around letting the context in.

Quoting romalove:


Quoting USBrit:

Obviously, you didn't read my other post that stated that I don't believe that this situation rises to being a voilation of the constitution and its amendments. It is not willful ignorance, some of us did try to explain why we took the position we did. A book in a drawer to us does not represent an endorsement. However, if there was required reading of that book, that would be different. Just as there are religious stations on the TV available. It is up to the person as to whether they actually read or watch. No government official is requiring either. AND, they have stated that they will accept other material for guests reading pleasure. So........how have they voilated anyone's rights? Does, this guy have the right to "sue"! YEP! but what a waste of taxpayes money, if he does. Hopefully, he will just send his books and the problem will be solved.

Quoting romalove:

Quoting USBrit:

No Roma, we completely understand. We are not the uneducated people you would believe we are, we just don't see that this rises to the level of being a voilation of the 1st amendment. So, please don't assume that we are just too stupid to understand what your position is. We just don't AGREE!

Quoting romalove:


Quoting PurdueMom:

This response is a typical Christian response that avoids the real issue.  

Quoting mcknitro:

Not to mention if you touch drug paraphenalia or your children do, these items could have horrific consequences - illness and possibly death.  If you accidentally touch a bible, oohh what happens?  Do you think you will burn because your not a believer?  Sorry it doesnt work that way.  I would not be offended by any one elses religious literature.  Satanic text might give me the creeps and I might start thinking about all those horror movies depicted in hotels and may not stay there again, but as long as there are not photos and it is just text as are the bibles found in hotels, I would not care.  People need to stop being so sensitive.  Why are they so threatened by every little thing.  I think its a waste of taxpayers money to have to debate this in court.  If other religions want to contribute their literature, they should be free to do so.  I believe what I believe and you are free to do the same.  A book in a hotel is not going to change that.  What are you people so afraid of?


Quoting Farmlady09:

It's a bad point because if there are drugs or other illegal items someone IS forced to call the front desk or the police. A Bible doesn't cause that sort of uproar and inconvenience.

Same goes for the rest ... if housecleaning missed that crud, you can bet I'd be requesting another room because who knows what else they missed. Just sayin.

Were you attacked by a Bible at some point or something?


Quoting LindaClement:

Actually, you missed the point. The POINT I was refuting was 'no one is forced to touch it' ... which is a stupid argument, demonstrated by replacing the 'it' in question with any other 'it' possible.



There is a willful ignorance to the issue presented in the OP, and this can be seen because of the constant attempt to frame this about it being about the Bible itself, and what can it hurt, and if you don't believe in it it's nothing to you, etc.

There are only two issues here that I think are on point and worthy of discussion.

There is the potential First Amendment infringement by having a religious text made available in state run vacation lodges.

And then there is the right of the complainer to complain, that it isn't about whining but about an American citizen seeing something he deems worthy of complaint and then asserting his right to do so.

Everything else is sand being thrown to obscure those two issues, because, of course, those two issues are relatively difficult to argue against.

I don't think you're uneducated.

I think it's a willful ignorance, meaning, you "know" what I am saying but refuse to acknowledge it.

I can have a discussion with someone who says "I don't think this is a First Amendment violation" and why.

I can't have one with someone who says "the Bible isn't hurting anyone" or "the atheist is just whining" or "this person is angry with God".

I respect your right to have your opinion.

We did, you and I, go over this before.

I think it's a close call but that the complainer has the right to complain and I don't think it's a waste of money if he does.

I also think that there are far more people saying stuff about how the Bible isn't hurting anyone and complaining about the whining atheist than actually discussing what I see as the actual issues.






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