Join the Meeting Place for Moms!
Talk to other moms, share advice, and have fun!

(minimum 6 characters)

Current Events & Hot Topics Current Events & Hot Topics

I am bored and since this was mentioned in another abortion post... >.

Posted by   + Show Post

Someone mentioned violence against clinics and the like. There have been a few instances of pro life groups protesting clinics that do not offer abortions. Not that they make news. 

Anyway, here, read these.

Anthrax threats  Wait.. they are threatening to send Anthrax to a clinic??? Holy Hel, I remember how sick my husband was after his vaccination..

Butyric Acid attacks Ouch

Arsons and Bombings I thought people were taught not to play with fire... 

Murders and Shootings Most recent one was 2009... 

Now, I know not all pro life peeps are violent. however, violent language (while not condoned) is not as bad as the violence show above.

Neither should be happening, because it makes both sides look like fools

Come join us at CafeWho! Click the siggie!

by on Jul. 4, 2013 at 10:45 AM
Replies (111-117):
Megan11587
by Member on Jul. 18, 2013 at 7:28 AM
I struggle with this topic because I understand both sides. When do you personally consider the fetus a person? Do you support late term abortions absent of a medical reason?

Quoting Sekirei:

It is the makeup if what could be, no more than that. However, we don't need to agree on it. All that needs to happen is for everyone to stop worrying about what another person decides for themselves in the medical sense





Quoting JTROX:

I don't have to agree with someone to respect them.

I have respect for all of the humans involved.  Not just the woman.  I have respect for the unborn, the woman, and the father.  

If it is not a human form, then what form is it?  What is it before it reaches it's "potential"?


Quoting Sekirei:

Do you think that abortion should be illegal? If you do and are working  towards that end, then you are not respecting another person's beliefs. No one can  (or should) force you to have an abortion... but to force someone to carry a pregnancy they do not want is just as bad as forcing an abortion. 

and potential to be a human... *shrugs* 

Quoting JTROX:

I can't answer your question, because I do not believe I have been disrespectful.  Help me out.  Where have I been disrespectful?  

It is a human being.  It not, please, do tell, what life form is it?


Quoting Sekirei:

No one answered this in another post, so, because of your answer, i will pose you this question.

If you wish for people to respect your views and beliefs... why is it that you can't (or won't) respect others?

There are quite a few paths that do not believe that there is another human until they take their first breath. Even in the bible, a baby is technically not 'worth' anything until a month old (Old Testament)

Quoting JTROX:

Nope, not at all.

Just pointing out the fact that pro-choicers support a woman's right to have a violent act committed on another human being.

Quoting Sekirei:


Quoting JTROX:

Abortion is violent.

soooo, that makes shooting people, tossing acid at them, bombing and setting fire to clinics ok?







Meadowchik
by Silver Member on Jul. 18, 2013 at 8:51 AM
Like I said, it has an agenda, which has liberal roots and is pro-choice. Which is why an analysis of THEIR numbers that reaches a credible and opposing conclusion reveals the Guttmacher Institute's own bias. Anyone making the broad conclusions as stated in Aeatas' NYT article is not being scientific.



Quoting candlegal:

Guttmacher Institute is just another extension of planned parenthood.


Alan F. Guttmacher 1898-1974


The Guttmacher Institute, an independent, nonprofit, tax-exempt
organization with offices in New York and Washington, D.C., was
established in 1968 to provide research, policy analysis and education
in the fields of reproductive health, reproductive rights and
population. It was named to honor a distinguished
obstetrician-gynecologist, author and leader in reproductive rights.
While Alan F. Guttmacher was president of the Planned Parenthood
Federation of America and a leader in the International Planned
Parenthood Federation in the 1960s and early 1970s, he saw the need for
the institution that now bears his name, and he nurtured its
development.

Quoting Meadowchik:

 Um, it was disagreeing with the findings of Catholics in Alliance and it analysed numbers from the Guttmacher Institute.


 


Quoting Aestas:


An article of the thoughts of Catholics in Alliance from a conservative think tank's website? Yeah, no agenda there.


The Guttmacher Institute is a non-partisan non-profit organization invested in health and policy research.


Quoting Meadowchik:


The article mentions some numbers and percentages that are far from comprehensive.  The conclusions such as this,


“What we see is that the law does not influence a woman’s decision to have an abortion. If there’s an unplanned pregnancy, it does not matter if the law is restrictive or liberal.”


are, without the concrete numbers, merely political speak.  Guttmacher is an institution with an agenda.  Did you notice, however, that most European countries restrict abortion to before 12 weeks?  So it would seem that the Texas law of restricted it to 20 weeks is actually quite liberal compared to Europe. 


Anyways, back to the topic, correlation does not mean causation. Also, it is incredible that they would want us to swallow the idea that legality really does not make a difference, when there is evidence that restrictions can reduce abortion rates:


"But more importantly, the regression results indicate pro-life laws are effective. Specifically, Medicaid funding of abortions increases abortion rates and informed consent laws reduce abortion rates. Both of these findings are statistically significant. Interestingly, in the final regression model only 4 of the 24 independent variables achieve conventional standards of statistical significance. Two of these four variables measure the effect of pro-life laws. Overall these findings contribute to the body of academic and policy literature which argues that pro-life laws are effective at lowering abortion rates. "


http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2008/10/123/


This, at the link I provide, is the kind of analysis I am looking for, one that can credibly talk about whether the statistics are rigorous or weak.


 


Meadowchik
by Silver Member on Jul. 18, 2013 at 8:57 AM
Same here. I've struggled with the subject for a long time, until quite recently. Then my convictions grew when I realized that the weaker state of a fetus is exactly WHY we cannot let the law or ourselves abandon them. Human civilization relies on precisely that, on the strong shielding and protected the weak. We must not fail our own.

Quoting Megan11587:

I struggle with this topic because I understand both sides. When do you personally consider the fetus a person? Do you support late term abortions absent of a medical reason?



Quoting Sekirei:

It is the makeup if what could be, no more than that. However, we don't need to agree on it. All that needs to happen is for everyone to stop worrying about what another person decides for themselves in the medical sense








Quoting JTROX:

I don't have to agree with someone to respect them.

I have respect for all of the humans involved.  Not just the woman.  I have respect for the unborn, the woman, and the father.  

If it is not a human form, then what form is it?  What is it before it reaches it's "potential"?


Quoting Sekirei:

Do you think that abortion should be illegal? If you do and are working  towards that end, then you are not respecting another person's beliefs. No one can  (or should) force you to have an abortion... but to force someone to carry a pregnancy they do not want is just as bad as forcing an abortion. 

and potential to be a human... *shrugs* 

Quoting JTROX:

I can't answer your question, because I do not believe I have been disrespectful.  Help me out.  Where have I been disrespectful?  

It is a human being.  It not, please, do tell, what life form is it?


Quoting Sekirei:

No one answered this in another post, so, because of your answer, i will pose you this question.

If you wish for people to respect your views and beliefs... why is it that you can't (or won't) respect others?

There are quite a few paths that do not believe that there is another human until they take their first breath. Even in the bible, a baby is technically not 'worth' anything until a month old (Old Testament)

Quoting JTROX:

Nope, not at all.

Just pointing out the fact that pro-choicers support a woman's right to have a violent act committed on another human being.

Quoting Sekirei:


Quoting JTROX:

Abortion is violent.

soooo, that makes shooting people, tossing acid at them, bombing and setting fire to clinics ok?







Megan11587
by Member on Jul. 18, 2013 at 9:01 AM
That is an interesting take on it. Do you feel the protection of that fetus trumps the protection of the mother, say, if the mother is likely not to survive the pregnancy?

Quoting Meadowchik:

Same here. I've struggled with the subject for a long time, until quite recently. Then my convictions grew when I realized that the weaker state of a fetus is exactly WHY we cannot let the law or ourselves abandon them. Human civilization relies on precisely that, on the strong shielding and protected the weak. We must not fail our own.



Quoting Megan11587:

I struggle with this topic because I understand both sides. When do you personally consider the fetus a person? Do you support late term abortions absent of a medical reason?





Quoting Sekirei:

It is the makeup if what could be, no more than that. However, we don't need to agree on it. All that needs to happen is for everyone to stop worrying about what another person decides for themselves in the medical sense











Quoting JTROX:

I don't have to agree with someone to respect them.

I have respect for all of the humans involved.  Not just the woman.  I have respect for the unborn, the woman, and the father.  

If it is not a human form, then what form is it?  What is it before it reaches it's "potential"?


Quoting Sekirei:

Do you think that abortion should be illegal? If you do and are working  towards that end, then you are not respecting another person's beliefs. No one can  (or should) force you to have an abortion... but to force someone to carry a pregnancy they do not want is just as bad as forcing an abortion. 

and potential to be a human... *shrugs* 

Quoting JTROX:

I can't answer your question, because I do not believe I have been disrespectful.  Help me out.  Where have I been disrespectful?  

It is a human being.  It not, please, do tell, what life form is it?


Quoting Sekirei:

No one answered this in another post, so, because of your answer, i will pose you this question.

If you wish for people to respect your views and beliefs... why is it that you can't (or won't) respect others?

There are quite a few paths that do not believe that there is another human until they take their first breath. Even in the bible, a baby is technically not 'worth' anything until a month old (Old Testament)

Quoting JTROX:

Nope, not at all.

Just pointing out the fact that pro-choicers support a woman's right to have a violent act committed on another human being.

Quoting Sekirei:


Quoting JTROX:

Abortion is violent.

soooo, that makes shooting people, tossing acid at them, bombing and setting fire to clinics ok?







Meadowchik
by Silver Member on Jul. 18, 2013 at 9:16 AM

Nope, only unless the mother insists. They are both valuable, and all available efforts should be made to save both. IMO it is the liberalization and elimination of abortion restrictions that have threatened the health of women who truly have dangerous medical issues. Equating emotional or financial stress to something like a tubal pregnancy means that the unborn of women undergoing emotional and financial stress are just as endangered under the law as an embryo in a tubal pregnancy. This sounds a whole lot to me like a violation of due process. As humans, the state has a vested interest in protecting unborn human life, especially when the mother's life is not on jeapardy.

Quoting Megan11587:

That is an interesting take on it. Do you feel the protection of that fetus trumps the protection of the mother, say, if the mother is likely not to survive the pregnancy?

((snip))

Megan11587
by Member on Jul. 18, 2013 at 9:28 AM

 You make valid points.  This whole issue makes me uneasy because I do feel like we should have rights as to what happens with our bodies, but I also think we have the responsibility to protect our unborn children.  I wish we spent more resources on education and prevention so this wouldn't be such a huge issue.  Obviously I know that even with education and prevention unwanted pregnancies occur, but I wish we could at least cut back on the number significantly.

Quoting Meadowchik:

Nope, only unless the mother insists. They are both valuable, and all available efforts should be made to save both. IMO it is the liberalization and elimination of abortion restrictions that have threatened the health of women who truly have dangerous medical issues. Equating emotional or financial stress to something like a tubal pregnancy means that the unborn of women undergoing emotional and financial stress are just as endangered under the law as an embryo in a tubal pregnancy. This sounds a whole lot to me like a violation of due process. As humans, the state has a vested interest in protecting unborn human life, especially when the mother's life is not on jeapardy.

Quoting Megan11587:

That is an interesting take on it. Do you feel the protection of that fetus trumps the protection of the mother, say, if the mother is likely not to survive the pregnancy?



Quoting Meadowchik:

Same here. I've struggled with the subject for a long time, until quite recently. Then my convictions grew when I realized that the weaker state of a fetus is exactly WHY we cannot let the law or ourselves abandon them. Human civilization relies on precisely that, on the strong shielding and protected the weak. We must not fail our own.





Quoting Megan11587:

I struggle with this topic because I understand both sides. When do you personally consider the fetus a person? Do you support late term abortions absent of a medical reason?







Quoting Sekirei:

It is the makeup if what could be, no more than that. However, we don't need to agree on it. All that needs to happen is for everyone to stop worrying about what another person decides for themselves in the medical sense














Quoting JTROX:

I don't have to agree with someone to respect them.

I have respect for all of the humans involved.  Not just the woman.  I have respect for the unborn, the woman, and the father.  

If it is not a human form, then what form is it?  What is it before it reaches it's "potential"?


Quoting Sekirei:

Do you think that abortion should be illegal? If you do and are working  towards that end, then you are not respecting another person's beliefs. No one can  (or should) force you to have an abortion... but to force someone to carry a pregnancy they do not want is just as bad as forcing an abortion. 

and potential to be a human... *shrugs* 

Quoting JTROX:

I can't answer your question, because I do not believe I have been disrespectful.  Help me out.  Where have I been disrespectful?  

It is a human being.  It not, please, do tell, what life form is it?

 

Quoting Sekirei:

No one answered this in another post, so, because of your answer, i will pose you this question.

If you wish for people to respect your views and beliefs... why is it that you can't (or won't) respect others?

There are quite a few paths that do not believe that there is another human until they take their first breath. Even in the bible, a baby is technically not 'worth' anything until a month old (Old Testament)

Quoting JTROX:

Nope, not at all.

Just pointing out the fact that pro-choicers support a woman's right to have a violent act committed on another human being.

Quoting Sekirei:


Quoting JTROX:

Abortion is violent.

soooo, that makes shooting people, tossing acid at them, bombing and setting fire to clinics ok?







 

Meadowchik
by Silver Member on Jul. 18, 2013 at 9:45 AM
1 mom liked this

Fortunately we can help, not only through the laws--some restrictions do make difference--but through everyday human contact, community involvement and personal support. We try. Working with children and teens can provide the occasion to enhance their sense of value--and by extension, responsibilities--and to help develop cognitive abilities tp make better decisions. Teens imo are especially vulnerable because, while they are physically capable like full grown adults, they are not as able to assess and evaluate risk. They need us.

Quoting Megan11587:

 You make valid points.  This whole issue makes me uneasy because I do feel like we should have rights as to what happens with our bodies, but I also think we have the responsibility to protect our unborn children.  I wish we spent more resources on education and prevention so this wouldn't be such a huge issue.  Obviously I know that even with education and prevention unwanted pregnancies occur, but I wish we could at least cut back on the number significantly.

((snip))
Add your quick reply below:
You must be a member to reply to this post.
Join the Meeting Place for Moms!
Talk to other moms, share advice, and have fun!

(minimum 6 characters)

close Join now to connect to
other members!
Connect with Facebook or Sign Up Using Email

Already Joined? LOG IN