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How I Lost Faith in the “Pro-Life” Movement

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The spring of my sophomore year of college I was president of my university’s Students for Life chapter. The fall of my junior year of college I cut my ties with the pro-life movement. Five years later I have lost the last shred of faith I had in that movement. This is my story.

I was raised in the sort of evangelical family where abortion is the number one political issue. I grew up believing that abortion was murder, and when I stopped identifying as pro-life I initially still believed that. Why, then, did I stop identifying as pro-life? Quite simply, I learned that increasing contraceptive use, not banning abortion, was the key to decreasing the number of abortions. Given that the pro-life movement focuses on banning abortion and is generally opposed advocating greater contraceptive use, I knew that I no longer fit. I also knew that my biggest allies in decreasing the number of abortions were those who supported increased birth control use – in other words, pro-choice progressives. And so I stopped calling myself pro-life.

My views on fetal personhood and women’s bodily autonomy have shifted since that day, but when I first started blogging a year and a half ago I was nevertheless very insistent that the pro-life movement should be taken at its word when it came to rhetoric about saving “unborn babies” from being “murdered.” I insisted that the pro-life movement wasn’t anti-woman or anti-sex, and that those who opposed abortion genuinely believed that a zygote/embryo/fetus was a person with rights in need of protection just like any other person. I believed that the pro-life movement’s actions were counterproductive, but that they were merely misinformed. I wrote a post with practical suggestions for opponents of abortion. I believed that the pro-life movement was genuine in its goals, but simply ignorant about how its goals might best be obtained.

I have come to the conclusion that I was wrong.

As a child, teen, and college student, I sincerely believed that personhood, life, rights, and the soul all began at fertilization. I was honestly opposed to abortion because I believed it was murder. It had nothing to do with being anti-woman or anti-sex. I thought that the pro-life movement writ large – the major pro-life organizations, leaders, and politicians – were similarly genuine. I thought that they, like myself, simply wanted to “save the lives of unborn babies.”

I have come to the conclusion that I was a dupe.

What I want to share here is how I came to this realization. And if you, reader, are one of those who opposes abortion because you believe it is murder and you want to save the lives of unborn babies, well, I hope to persuade you that the pro-life movement is not actually your ally in this, that you have been misled, and that you would be more effective in decreasing the number of abortions that occur if you were to side with pro-choice progressives. If this is you, please hear me out before shaking your head.

Changing Tactics and Breaking Ties

My journey began one blustery day in October of 2007 when I came upon an article in the New York Times. This article completely shook my perspective. It didn’t change my belief that abortion was murder or my desire to save the lives of unborn babies. Instead, it simply completely overhauled my tactical focus and made me realize that the current efforts of the pro-life movement are extremely backwards.

Banning Abortion Does Not Decrease Abortion Rates

The first thing I learned from that New York Times article shocked me: it turns out that banning abortion does not actually affect the abortion rate.

A comprehensive global study of abortion has concluded that abortion rates are similar in countries where it is legal and those where it is not, suggesting that outlawing the procedure does little to deter women seeking it.

Moreover, the researchers found that abortion was safe in countries where it was legal, but dangerous in countries where it was outlawed and performed clandestinely. Globally, abortion accounts for 13 percent of women’s deaths during pregnancy and childbirth, and there are 31 abortions for every 100 live births, the study said.

The results of the study, a collaboration between scientists from the World Health Organization in Geneva and the Guttmacher Institute in New York, a reproductive rights group, are being published Friday in the journal Lancet.

“We now have a global picture of induced abortion in the world, covering both countries where it is legal and countries where laws are very restrictive,” Dr. Paul Van Look, director of the W.H.O. Department of Reproductive Health and Research, said in a telephone interview. “What we see is that the law does not influence a woman’s decision to have an abortion. If there’s an unplanned pregnancy, it does not matter if the law is restrictive or liberal.”

But the legal status of abortion did greatly affect the dangers involved, the researchers said. “Generally, where abortion is legal it will be provided in a safe manner,” Dr. Van Look said. “And the opposite is also true: where it is illegal, it is likely to be unsafe, performed under unsafe conditions by poorly trained providers.”

I was flabbergasted upon reading this. I followed the link to the summary of the study, printed the entire thing out for reading over lunch, and then headed off to class. As I perused the study over a taco bowl in the student union later that day I wondered why I had never been told any of this. I was shocked to find that the countries with the lowest abortion rates are the ones where abortion is most legal and available, and the countries with the highest abortion rates are generally the ones where the practice is illegal. It’s true.

Highly restrictive abortion laws are not associated with lower abortion rates. For example, the abortion rate is 29 per 1,000 women of childbearing age in Africa and 32 per 1,000 in Latin America—regions in which abortion is illegal under most circumstances in the majority of countries. The rate is 12 per 1,000 in Western Europe, where abortion is generally permitted on broad grounds.

Banning abortion does not actually affect abortion rates. I was could not have been more shocked. I learned that all banning abortion does is make abortion illegal – and unsafe. I found that almost 50,000 women worldwide die each year from unsafe abortions, and that many more experience serious injury or infertility. These deaths happen almost entirely in countries where abortion is illegal – and thus clandestine. In fact, when abortion was made legal in South Africa, the number of abortion related deaths fell by over 90%.

Overturning Roe, I realized, would not make women stop having abortions. Instead, it would simply punish women who have abortions by requiring them to risk their health to do so. This is all well and good if the goal is to punish women for seeking abortions, but if the goal is to keep unborn babies from being murdered, this is extremely ineffective.

The Real Solution: Birth Control

But if banning abortion does not decrease abortion rates, what does? Why do some countries have low abortion rates while others have much higher rates? The answer, I found, was simple.

Both the lowest and highest subregional abortion rates are in Europe, where abortion is generally legal under broad grounds. In Western Europe, the rate is 12 per 1,000 women, while in Eastern Europe it is 43. The discrepancy in rates between the two regions reflects relatively low contraceptive use in Eastern Europe, as well as a high degree of reliance on methods with relatively high user failure rates, such as the condom, withdrawal and the rhythm method.

As I sat there in the student union reading over my lunch, I found that making birth control widespread and easily accessible is actually the most effective way to decrease the abortion rate. Even as I processed this fact, I knew that the pro-life movement as a whole generally opposes things like comprehensive sex education and making birth control available to teenagers. I knew this because I had lived it, had heard it in pro-life banquet after pro-life banquet, had read it in the literature. The pro-life movement is anti-birth-control. And opposing birth control is pretty much the most ineffective way to decrease abortion rates imaginable. In fact, opposing birth control actually drives the abortion rates up.

As I mulled this over, I realized how very obvious it was. The cause of abortions is unwanted pregnancies. If you get rid of unwanted pregnancies the number of people who seek abortions will drop like a rock. Simply banning abortion leaves women stuck with unwanted pregnancies. Banning abortion doesn’t make those pregnancies wanted. Many women in a situation like that will be willing to do anything to end that pregnancy, even if it means trying to induce their own abortions (say, with a coat hanger or by drinking chemicals) or seeking out illegal abortions. I realized that the real way to reduce abortion rates, then, was to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies. And the way to do that is with birth control, which reduces the number of unwanted pregnancies by allowing women to control when and if they become pregnant.

I realized that the only world in which opposing birth control made any sense was one in which the goal was to control women’s sex lives. After all, birth control allows women to have sex without having to face the “consequences” of sex. But I had never opposed abortion in an effort to make women face the “consequences” of having sex. I had always opposed abortion out of a desire to save the lives of unborn babies. As a child, I had been moved to tears by the image of millions of babies murdered by abortion each year. If making it easier for women to have sex I personally believed was sinful was the price I had to pay to save the lives of unborn babies, it was a price I was more than willing to pay.

As my next class approached, I put the printout back in my backpack and walked out into the October sun. My mind was in turmoil, but there was one thing I knew for sure. I could no longer call myself pro-life, because I could no longer support the policies advocated by the pro-life movement and the major pro-life organizations. I no longer wanted to see Roe overturned or abortion banned. Instead, I wanted to work towards a world in which everyone has access to affordable birth control and unplanned pregnancies are reduced to a bare minimum. That day I became pro-choice.

What about the Zygote?

In the five years since that day in October, I have rethought many things. I no longer believe that abortion is murder because I no longer hold that a zygote, embryo, or fetus is a “person.” I also came to realize that the focus on personhood ignores the fact that a zygote, embryo, or fetus is growing inside of another person’s body. For a variety of reasons, I see birth as the key dividing line. But even as my position shifted, I was still willing to give the pro-life movement the benefit of the doubt. Why? Because I believed that the pro-life movement’s opposition to birth control stemmed not from a desire to control women’s sex lives but rather from the belief that the pill was an “abortifacient.” This meant that the pro-life movement could oppose abortion as murder and yet also oppose birth control without actually being inconsistent. But in the last few months I have read several things that have shaken this belief.

by on Jul. 5, 2013 at 5:49 PM
Replies (341-350):
KamWorthy
by Silver Member on Jul. 8, 2013 at 8:45 PM
"While improved contraceptive use can help reduce unintended pregnancy and abortion, some abortions will remain difficult to prevent, because of limits to a women's ability to determine and control all circumstances over her life and her own body". This tells me that women who have abortions as a form of birth control, are not in control, and most likely not all that bright.
KamWorthy
by Silver Member on Jul. 8, 2013 at 8:55 PM
You are correct, I read it wrong. Of the 1.2 million abortions performed annually, 1% are due to rape/incest, 12% are due to the health of the mother or the dire health/deformity of the baby, 87% are performed on stupid, irresponsible women as a form of birth control. Eh, I was 4.7 % off. My bad. ;)
Quoting jaxTheMomm:

The CDC says that 91.7% of abortions were performed at less than 13 weeks gestation.

Not that 91.7% of abortions were performed as a form of birth control.

Quoting KamWorthy:

According to the CDC, MOST abortions, 91.7%, are performed as a form of birth control. So, what does this mean? Where those women never taught or given the tools about how to prevent pregnancy? Or where they informed and offered information, but were too stupid to learn, did they have ADD?
Quoting AdrianneHill:

Lol. Good gravy!
I think that is kinda harsh because the world isn't black and white like that. Some women use it for birth control, most don't. If this woman had free long term birth control, they'd be less likely to have abortions.


Quoting KamWorthy:

If a woman is taught what to do, educated, bombarded with the tools to protect herself and still gets pregnant, does that mean that woman is stupid and not able to be taught safe and protective sex? Because, it kinda sounds like that's what you are saying in a round-about way. Maybe it's just about controlling the stupid women, because teachable, intelligent women don't put themselves in situations that require abortion as a form of birth control.



Quoting BellaByrdie:

That is what I have NEVER understood.  If you don't want abortions PREACH safer sex practices.  Go for Birth control.  Educated and protected people will decrease the occurance of abortions.   Making it illegal will just cause more women to die or become sterilized for botched abortions.  

But that isn't what it is about.  Its about controling women and what they do.  That is ALL its about.  If this were a MAN'S issue it wouldn't BE an issue. 



jaxTheMomm
by Platinum Member on Jul. 8, 2013 at 9:00 PM
1 mom liked this

What source states that 87% of women who terminate are "stupid, irresponsible women"?

Quoting KamWorthy:

You are correct, I read it wrong. Of the 1.2 million abortions performed annually, 1% are due to rape/incest, 12% are due to the health of the mother or the dire health/deformity of the baby, 87% are performed on stupid, irresponsible women as a form of birth control. Eh, I was 4.7 % off. My bad. ;)
Quoting jaxTheMomm:

The CDC says that 91.7% of abortions were performed at less than 13 weeks gestation.

Not that 91.7% of abortions were performed as a form of birth control.

Quoting KamWorthy:

According to the CDC, MOST abortions, 91.7%, are performed as a form of birth control. So, what does this mean? Where those women never taught or given the tools about how to prevent pregnancy? Or where they informed and offered information, but were too stupid to learn, did they have ADD?
Quoting AdrianneHill:

Lol. Good gravy!
I think that is kinda harsh because the world isn't black and white like that. Some women use it for birth control, most don't. If this woman had free long term birth control, they'd be less likely to have abortions.


Quoting KamWorthy:

If a woman is taught what to do, educated, bombarded with the tools to protect herself and still gets pregnant, does that mean that woman is stupid and not able to be taught safe and protective sex? Because, it kinda sounds like that's what you are saying in a round-about way. Maybe it's just about controlling the stupid women, because teachable, intelligent women don't put themselves in situations that require abortion as a form of birth control.



Quoting BellaByrdie:

That is what I have NEVER understood.  If you don't want abortions PREACH safer sex practices.  Go for Birth control.  Educated and protected people will decrease the occurance of abortions.   Making it illegal will just cause more women to die or become sterilized for botched abortions.  

But that isn't what it is about.  Its about controling women and what they do.  That is ALL its about.  If this were a MAN'S issue it wouldn't BE an issue. 





KamWorthy
by Silver Member on Jul. 8, 2013 at 11:45 PM
"While improved contraceptive use can help reduce unintended pregnancy and abortion, some abortions will remain difficult to prevent, because of limits to a women's ability to determine and control all circumstances over her life and her own body"......Guttmacher site........ This tells me that women who have abortions as a form of birth control, are not in control, and most likely not all that bright.............http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/2411798.html
Quoting jaxTheMomm:

What source states that 87% of women who terminate are "stupid, irresponsible women"?

Quoting KamWorthy:

You are correct, I read it wrong. Of the 1.2 million abortions performed annually, 1% are due to rape/incest, 12% are due to the health of the mother or the dire health/deformity of the baby, 87% are performed on stupid, irresponsible women as a form of birth control. Eh, I was 4.7 % off. My bad. ;)
Quoting jaxTheMomm:

The CDC says that 91.7% of abortions were performed at less than 13 weeks gestation.

Not that 91.7% of abortions were performed as a form of birth control.

Quoting KamWorthy:

According to the CDC, MOST abortions, 91.7%, are performed as a form of birth control. So, what does this mean? Where those women never taught or given the tools about how to prevent pregnancy? Or where they informed and offered information, but were too stupid to learn, did they have ADD?
Quoting AdrianneHill:

Lol. Good gravy!
I think that is kinda harsh because the world isn't black and white like that. Some women use it for birth control, most don't. If this woman had free long term birth control, they'd be less likely to have abortions.


Quoting KamWorthy:

If a woman is taught what to do, educated, bombarded with the tools to protect herself and still gets pregnant, does that mean that woman is stupid and not able to be taught safe and protective sex? Because, it kinda sounds like that's what you are saying in a round-about way. Maybe it's just about controlling the stupid women, because teachable, intelligent women don't put themselves in situations that require abortion as a form of birth control.



Quoting BellaByrdie:

That is what I have NEVER understood.  If you don't want abortions PREACH safer sex practices.  Go for Birth control.  Educated and protected people will decrease the occurance of abortions.   Making it illegal will just cause more women to die or become sterilized for botched abortions.  

But that isn't what it is about.  Its about controling women and what they do.  That is ALL its about.  If this were a MAN'S issue it wouldn't BE an issue. 





BellaByrdie
by Member on Jul. 9, 2013 at 12:08 AM

Can you not read?  Did I SAY that.  NO I didn't.  

And most schools DON'T have comprehensive sex ed.   

Stop trying to read more than what I say.  If I meant that I would SAY IT.  

Quoting KamWorthy:

Ok...let's talk about education. Currently in most schools, sex Ed covers pregnancy prevention. So of thos individuals that partake in sex Ed, and yet still become pregnant, what's the reason? Are they just too stupid to learn? Do the have ADD? Are you saying that women who obtain abortions were women who were never taught about pregnancy prevention?
Quoting BellaByrdie:

No that is not what I am saying at all.  And not what I said. First of all Birth control DOES fail  Even with PERFECT usage birth control fails. 

If you heard that in a "round about way" than that is what YOU think not what I think nor what I said.  

Also I never said it should be used as a from of birth control.  Did not in fact MENTION that.  

When it WAS illegal it didn't stop abortions.  Women just stuck a coat hanger up them and bled to death.  They went to butchers who ended up killing them or damaging them.  But it never stopped them. 

Education and access are the key's to lowering the number of abortions. 


Quoting KamWorthy

If a woman is taught what to do, educated, bombarded with the tools to protect herself and still gets pregnant, does that mean that woman is stupid and not able to be taught safe and protective sex? Because, it kinda sounds like that's what you are saying in a round-about way. Maybe it's just about controlling the stupid women, because teachable, intelligent women don't put themselves in situations that require abortion as a form of birth control.
Quoting BellaByrdie:

That is what I have NEVER understood.  If you don't want abortions PREACH safer sex practices.  Go for Birth control.  Educated and protected people will decrease the occurance of abortions.   Making it illegal will just cause more women to die or become sterilized for botched abortions.  

But that isn't what it is about.  Its about controling women and what they do.  That is ALL its about.  If this were a MAN'S issue it wouldn't BE an issue. 



KamWorthy
by Silver Member on Jul. 9, 2013 at 12:46 AM
Let's think about this for a moment...of the 1.2 million abortions 1% abort due to incest/rape, 12% due to health reasons of the baby or mother, and the other 87% because they got pregnant on accident, or change their mind about having a baby after they became pregnant on purpose. Ok, let's look at those women who abort because they became pregnant on accident. Was it because they never had sex Ed in school? Were they absent that week? Or were they under the impression that sex doesn't cause pregnancy? Were they illiterate, unable to read the condom package? Did they miss taking their pill? Did they use it like a suppository instead of taking it orally? Did they think they couldn't get pregnant if they had sex while they were on their period, or if they used the rhythm method? If they never had sex Ed in school, this would mean they are ignorant. If they weren't aware that having sex causes pregnancy, then they are ignorant, or retarded, or uneducated or all of thee above. If they thought they could not get pregnant on their period or the rhythm method, again, they are ignorant, and uneducated. If they were illiterate, unable to read the directions on the condom package, or they used their diaphragm incorrectly, they are most likely uneducated and daft. If she aborts because she cant afford the baby, this means she is irresponsible and lacks good judgment, not to mention now she has to pay hundreds of dollars for the abortion when she could have just gotten birth control to begin with. I'm sure there are more reasons, excuses etc...those are just a few. Now let's look at those women who became pregnant on purpose, but then changed their minds. Did they change their mind because the baby daddy left them? If so, then she's not in her right mind, she's confused and emotional, which is the worst time to make a life altering decision. Did she finally get that job she had thought was out of reach, and having a baby right now would ruin her career? Then she's selfish, shallow, and devoid of compassion. See, I understand those who abort for rape, incest and health reasons, those are completely feasible. What's not feasible are the 87% who were ignorant, irresponsible, and refused to listen when basic sex Ed was being taught. I refuse to believe there is any woman out there over the age of 12 (in America) who doesn't know how babies are made, and how to prevent them from being conceived. Ignorance is not a valid excuse, not nowadays. So there is no reason why when people say women are too stupid to prevent pregnancy, too ignorant to take care of their own bodies, that they should become angry and just take the truth for what it is, reality, and hopefully a wakeup call.
KamWorthy
by Silver Member on Jul. 9, 2013 at 12:49 AM
I'm asking questions Hun...see the question marks? Lol....I'm not quoting you. I'm asking you. Well, can you answer? Oh wait, you did. You said most schools don't have comprehensive sex Ed. You sure about that? I mean most schools have at least the basics. Surely, this should be enough to educate those on how babies are made. Right?
Quoting BellaByrdie:

Can you not read?  Did I SAY that.  NO I didn't.  

And most schools DON'T have comprehensive sex ed.   

Stop trying to read more than what I say.  If I meant that I would SAY IT.  

Quoting KamWorthy:

Ok...let's talk about education. Currently in most schools, sex Ed covers pregnancy prevention. So of thos individuals that partake in sex Ed, and yet still become pregnant, what's the reason? Are they just too stupid to learn? Do the have ADD? Are you saying that women who obtain abortions were women who were never taught about pregnancy prevention?
Quoting BellaByrdie:

No that is not what I am saying at all.  And not what I said. First of all Birth control DOES fail  Even with PERFECT usage birth control fails. 

If you heard that in a "round about way" than that is what YOU think not what I think nor what I said.  

Also I never said it should be used as a from of birth control.  Did not in fact MENTION that.  

When it WAS illegal it didn't stop abortions.  Women just stuck a coat hanger up them and bled to death.  They went to butchers who ended up killing them or damaging them.  But it never stopped them. 

Education and access are the key's to lowering the number of abortions. 


Quoting KamWorthy

If a woman is taught what to do, educated, bombarded with the tools to protect herself and still gets pregnant, does that mean that woman is stupid and not able to be taught safe and protective sex? Because, it kinda sounds like that's what you are saying in a round-about way. Maybe it's just about controlling the stupid women, because teachable, intelligent women don't put themselves in situations that require abortion as a form of birth control.
Quoting BellaByrdie:

That is what I have NEVER understood.  If you don't want abortions PREACH safer sex practices.  Go for Birth control.  Educated and protected people will decrease the occurance of abortions.   Making it illegal will just cause more women to die or become sterilized for botched abortions.  

But that isn't what it is about.  Its about controling women and what they do.  That is ALL its about.  If this were a MAN'S issue it wouldn't BE an issue. 



BellaByrdie
by Member on Jul. 9, 2013 at 1:02 AM

NO actually they don't give comprehensive coverage.  Not in the places that need it the most.  They give a fine glossing over but no real in depth info.  The states that have the lowest teen pregnancy rates are good examples of that.   The one that have the highest are good examples of the fact that NOT telling them about birth control, condoms and safer sex practices won't make it go away.

Will it make all of them go away of course not.   Some women are just stupid.  Some are lazy.  Sometimes accidents STILL happen despite being careful.  BUT some women get pregnant because they CAN'T afford the birth control or the drs. visit to get the script. 

Quoting KamWorthy:

I'm asking questions Hun...see the question marks? Lol....I'm not quoting you. I'm asking you. Well, can you answer? Oh wait, you did. You said most schools don't have comprehensive sex Ed. You sure about that? I mean most schools have at least the basics. Surely, this should enough to educate those ipon how babies are made. Right?
Quoting BellaByrdie:

Can you not read?  Did I SAY that.  NO I didn't.  

And most schools DON'T have comprehensive sex ed.   

Stop trying to read more than what I say.  If I meant that I would SAY IT.  

Quoting KamWorthy:

Ok...let's talk about education. Currently in most schools, sex Ed covers pregnancy prevention. So of thos individuals that partake in sex Ed, and yet still become pregnant, what's the reason? Are they just too stupid to learn? Do the have ADD? Are you saying that women who obtain abortions were women who were never taught about pregnancy prevention?
Quoting BellaByrdie:

No that is not what I am saying at all.  And not what I said. First of all Birth control DOES fail  Even with PERFECT usage birth control fails. 

If you heard that in a "round about way" than that is what YOU think not what I think nor what I said.  

Also I never said it should be used as a from of birth control.  Did not in fact MENTION that.  

When it WAS illegal it didn't stop abortions.  Women just stuck a coat hanger up them and bled to death.  They went to butchers who ended up killing them or damaging them.  But it never stopped them. 

Education and access are the key's to lowering the number of abortions. 


Quoting KamWorthy

If a woman is taught what to do, educated, bombarded with the tools to protect herself and still gets pregnant, does that mean that woman is stupid and not able to be taught safe and protective sex? Because, it kinda sounds like that's what you are saying in a round-about way. Maybe it's just about controlling the stupid women, because teachable, intelligent women don't put themselves in situations that require abortion as a form of birth control.
Quoting BellaByrdie:

That is what I have NEVER understood.  If you don't want abortions PREACH safer sex practices.  Go for Birth control.  Educated and protected people will decrease the occurance of abortions.   Making it illegal will just cause more women to die or become sterilized for botched abortions.  

But that isn't what it is about.  Its about controling women and what they do.  That is ALL its about.  If this were a MAN'S issue it wouldn't BE an issue. 




KamWorthy
by Silver Member on Jul. 9, 2013 at 1:11 AM
So you do agree that many women despite all the education, and information are still stupid enough to get pregnant? Question, if women get pregnant because they can't afford birth control prescriptions and they can't afford the unlimited free condoms at Planned Parenthood, where do they get the money for the 1,2,3,4,5,6 abortions that they have? According to Wikipedia, 58% of American schools have comprehensive sex Ed. The other 42% have basic to beginning comprehensive. But here's the thing, most abortions on performed on women in their mid to late 20's. It would seem that not only are women going uneducated in their teens, they are staying ignorant even as they approach their 30's. That's friggin pathetic!
Quoting BellaByrdie:

NO actually they don't give comprehensive coverage.  Not in the places that need it the most.  They give a fine glossing over but no real in depth info.  The states that have the lowest teen pregnancy rates are good examples of that.   The one that have the highest are good examples of the fact that NOT telling them about birth control, condoms and safer sex practices won't make it go away.

Will it make all of them go away of course not.   Some women are just stupid.  Some are lazy.  Sometimes accidents STILL happen despite being careful.  BUT some women get pregnant because they CAN'T afford the birth control or the drs. visit to get the script. 

Quoting KamWorthy:

I'm asking questions Hun...see the question marks? Lol....I'm not quoting you. I'm asking you. Well, can you answer? Oh wait, you did. You said most schools don't have comprehensive sex Ed. You sure about that? I mean most schools have at least the basics. Surely, this should enough to educate those ipon how babies are made. Right?
Quoting BellaByrdie:

Can you not read?  Did I SAY that.  NO I didn't.  

And most schools DON'T have comprehensive sex ed.   

Stop trying to read more than what I say.  If I meant that I would SAY IT.  

Quoting KamWorthy:

Ok...let's talk about education. Currently in most schools, sex Ed covers pregnancy prevention. So of thos individuals that partake in sex Ed, and yet still become pregnant, what's the reason? Are they just too stupid to learn? Do the have ADD? Are you saying that women who obtain abortions were women who were never taught about pregnancy prevention?
Quoting BellaByrdie:

No that is not what I am saying at all.  And not what I said. First of all Birth control DOES fail  Even with PERFECT usage birth control fails. 

If you heard that in a "round about way" than that is what YOU think not what I think nor what I said.  

Also I never said it should be used as a from of birth control.  Did not in fact MENTION that.  

When it WAS illegal it didn't stop abortions.  Women just stuck a coat hanger up them and bled to death.  They went to butchers who ended up killing them or damaging them.  But it never stopped them. 

Education and access are the key's to lowering the number of abortions. 


Quoting KamWorthy

If a woman is taught what to do, educated, bombarded with the tools to protect herself and still gets pregnant, does that mean that woman is stupid and not able to be taught safe and protective sex? Because, it kinda sounds like that's what you are saying in a round-about way. Maybe it's just about controlling the stupid women, because teachable, intelligent women don't put themselves in situations that require abortion as a form of birth control.
Quoting BellaByrdie:

That is what I have NEVER understood.  If you don't want abortions PREACH safer sex practices.  Go for Birth control.  Educated and protected people will decrease the occurance of abortions.   Making it illegal will just cause more women to die or become sterilized for botched abortions.  

But that isn't what it is about.  Its about controling women and what they do.  That is ALL its about.  If this were a MAN'S issue it wouldn't BE an issue. 




BellaByrdie
by Member on Jul. 9, 2013 at 1:37 AM

No I don't agree MANY women.  Some yes.  And some no matter how careful they thought they were still become pregnant. 

And planned parenthood isn't everywhere.  And you would be suprised how embaressed some people are to go in and GET the free condums and not all know about them. 

And I have NEVER heard of any woman having more than 3 abortions let alone 6. And as far as their later ages.  Perhaps that is because they know they don't want the children.  can't have them.  Or their birth control failed.  A friend had an abortion when she was 26.  Not because she was ignorant or unprotected (she was on birth control had been using the same one for years with out incident) but she was working on her graduate degree in chemistry she was working with extremely toxic chemicals and knew the child would likely have several birth defects (and in fact after she graduated was told to wait six months before even TRYING to become pregnant).   

As far as I am concerned a woman can do what SHE WANTS with her body from the age of 16 till 66.  

Quoting KamWorthy:

So you do agree that many women despite all the education, and information are still stupid enough to get pregnant? Question, if women get pregnant because they can't afford birth control prescriptions and they can't afford the unlimited free condoms at Planned Parenthood, where do they get the money for the 1,2,3,4,5,6 abortions that they have? According to Wikipedia, 58% of American schools have comprehensive sex Ed. The other 42% have basic to beginning comprehensive. But here's the thing, most abortions on performed on women in their mid to late 20's. It would seem that not only are women going uneducated in their teens, they are staying ignorant even as they approach their 30's. That's friggin pathetic!
Quoting BellaByrdie:

NO actually they don't give comprehensive coverage.  Not in the places that need it the most.  They give a fine glossing over but no real in depth info.  The states that have the lowest teen pregnancy rates are good examples of that.   The one that have the highest are good examples of the fact that NOT telling them about birth control, condoms and safer sex practices won't make it go away.

Will it make all of them go away of course not.   Some women are just stupid.  Some are lazy.  Sometimes accidents STILL happen despite being careful.  BUT some women get pregnant because they CAN'T afford the birth control or the drs. visit to get the script. 

Quoting KamWorthy:

I'm asking questions Hun...see the question marks? Lol....I'm not quoting you. I'm asking you. Well, can you answer? Oh wait, you did. You said most schools don't have comprehensive sex Ed. You sure about that? I mean most schools have at least the basics. Surely, this should enough to educate those ipon how babies are made. Right?
Quoting BellaByrdie:

Can you not read?  Did I SAY that.  NO I didn't.  

And most schools DON'T have comprehensive sex ed.   

Stop trying to read more than what I say.  If I meant that I would SAY IT.  

Quoting KamWorthy:

Ok...let's talk about education. Currently in most schools, sex Ed covers pregnancy prevention. So of thos individuals that partake in sex Ed, and yet still become pregnant, what's the reason? Are they just too stupid to learn? Do the have ADD? Are you saying that women who obtain abortions were women who were never taught about pregnancy prevention?
Quoting BellaByrdie:

No that is not what I am saying at all.  And not what I said. First of all Birth control DOES fail  Even with PERFECT usage birth control fails. 

If you heard that in a "round about way" than that is what YOU think not what I think nor what I said.  

Also I never said it should be used as a from of birth control.  Did not in fact MENTION that.  

When it WAS illegal it didn't stop abortions.  Women just stuck a coat hanger up them and bled to death.  They went to butchers who ended up killing them or damaging them.  But it never stopped them. 

Education and access are the key's to lowering the number of abortions. 


Quoting KamWorthy

If a woman is taught what to do, educated, bombarded with the tools to protect herself and still gets pregnant, does that mean that woman is stupid and not able to be taught safe and protective sex? Because, it kinda sounds like that's what you are saying in a round-about way. Maybe it's just about controlling the stupid women, because teachable, intelligent women don't put themselves in situations that require abortion as a form of birth control.
Quoting BellaByrdie:

That is what I have NEVER understood.  If you don't want abortions PREACH safer sex practices.  Go for Birth control.  Educated and protected people will decrease the occurance of abortions.   Making it illegal will just cause more women to die or become sterilized for botched abortions.  

But that isn't what it is about.  Its about controling women and what they do.  That is ALL its about.  If this were a MAN'S issue it wouldn't BE an issue. 





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