Join the Meeting Place for Moms!
Talk to other moms, share advice, and have fun!

(minimum 6 characters)

Current Events & Hot Topics Current Events & Hot Topics

REAL Pro-Life Bill That Forces Conservatives To Put Up Or Shut Up

Posted by   + Show Post
'Pro-life?' Meet the man who challenges the Texas legislature to abolish the death penalty before enacting their anti-abortion bill. Texas State Rep. Harold Dutton Jr.

‘Pro-life?’ Meet the man who challenges the Texas legislature to abolish the death penalty before enacting their anti-abortion bill. Photo of Texas State Representative Harold Dutton Jr. from the Texas Tribune.

If you are like me, you may have often wondered how those who call themselves “pro-life” can claim to care deeply about unborn life on the one hand, yet approve of the death penalty on the other. It’s nice to know that we are not alone, especially after what the Texas legislature has done in the past week. One member of the Texas House has taken this to his Republican colleagues in the form of a new bill. State Rep. Harold Dutton, Jr. has introduced HB 45, which is a very simple bill:

BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF TEXAS: SECTION 1.  Chapter 170, Health and Safety Code, is amended by adding Section 170.003 to read as follows: Sec. 170.003.  LIMITATION ON ADDITIONAL ABORTION RESTRICTIONS. Notwithstanding any other law, a law enacted on or after June 1, 2013, that restricts access to abortion or the availability of abortion does not take effect until 60 days after publication in the Texas Register of a finding of fact made by the attorney general that the state has abolished the use of the death penalty as a punishment available on final conviction of a criminal offense. SECTION 2.  This Act takes effect immediately if it receives a vote of two-thirds of all the members elected to each house, as provided by Section 39, Article III, Texas Constitution. If this Act does not receive the vote necessary for immediate effect, this Act takes effect on the 91st day after the last day of the legislative session.


Now, that’s what I call walking the talk. Well done, Mr. Dutton. Here is a man who understands what “pro-life” really means as opposed to the forced birthers who claim that they are “pro-life” yet they support a death penalty that has been proven to be unfair. Not only is it applied unfairly, the costs associated with executions are staggering: pursuing a death penalty case costs up to 20 times more than a life sentence. The death penalty is racist and there is no evidence that it acts as a deterrent.  The most damning fact, especially as applied to the pro-birth crowd, is that nearly every religion in America considers executions as being against their tenets. Oh sure, there are some passages in the Old Testament that are often used to justify the death penalty but most religious and interfaith organizationsregard it as immoral. Don’t take my word for it, read for yourself. I know my faith holds that executions are not in keeping with our belief system.

Texas accounts for 40% of all executions carried out in the United States. The state executed its 500th prisoner last month. Governor Rick Perry doesn’t seem to be bothered by this benchmark – he considers it a badge of honor that it occurred under his watch. To him, the Texas capital punishment system works “just fine” despite executing the mentally disabled, juveniles and even possibly innocent people.  But Perry doesn’t worry his pretty little head about that sort of thing, you see. He sleeps just fine knowing that his state is number one in executions because in Texas they are “going to support protecting life.” Folks, as they say down South, the boy just ain’t right.

As far as I’m concerned, Mr. Perry, if you don’t support caring for the poor, the sick, the elderly, if you don’t support contraception, childcare and education, if you don’t support health care for all then you are NOT pro-life. Pro-life means cherishing all life, not just giving lip service to it by holding a cluster of cells as having more rights than the woman who carries it. If you can’t commit to including all life in your heart, then please STFU. Because you are not pro-life when you continue to murder human beings in your death chambers. Here’s hoping that enough Texas legislators realize what pro-life really means and that Representative Dutton’s bill passes.



Read more: http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/07/17/texas-real-pro-life-bill/#ixzz2ZNXOvnpU

by on Jul. 18, 2013 at 3:10 AM
Replies (31-40):
illogicalkat
by Bronze Member on Jul. 18, 2013 at 10:07 AM
1 mom liked this

I never said I was pro-life, nor did I say there was anything wrong with a person being anti-abortion.

I disagree with the statement that pro-life only applies to abortion, and I will continue to call anyone identifying as pro-life yet supporting capital punishment, a hypocrite.

And I will always support the right to legal and safe abortion, because I would rather a women be medically cared for than get a back-alley coat-hanger job that could kill her. Whether I would ever make that choice for myself is another matter entirely, and not up for debate here.

Quoting Meadowchik:

 Pro-life is about speaking for those who cannot speak for themselves, and defending their lives. Deathrow inmates have had the chance to speak for themselves, they have had the chance to defend themselves in a court of law.

BTW, are you implying that IF the death penalty ends, you would agree to a ban of abortions-on-demand, and all other abortions except when the mothers life is in medical jeapardy?

Quoting illogicalkat:

Pro-life means exactly that. Pro-LIFE. As in, don't kill other people, no matter how small or how big.

If you're anti-abortion but pro-capital punishment, then you aren't pro-life. You're just anti-abortion.


Quoting yourspecialkid:

 I didn't finish the article.  Being pro-life has absolutely nothing to do with the death penalty.  The death penalty is a societal punishment for a heinous crime.  Most abortions are the mother's way of dealing with an inconvenience.  They are not even in the same ballpark.

 



 



romalove
by Roma on Jul. 18, 2013 at 10:07 AM
1 mom liked this


Quoting Meadowchik:

Laws restricting abortion can decrease abortion. 

A global collection of figures from different countries does not necessarily count for causal evidence.  More scientifically sound studies are those examining specific cases and specific laws.  For instance, the countries with lower rates also may have other things in common with each other which are the real cause for lower abortion rates.

The laws referred to here are specifically examined and the causal link less tenuous: http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2008/10/123/

Quoting Aestas:

First of all, even if one disagrees with the death penalty, it is not equivalent to abortion.  It is a penalty for murderes found guily in a court of law, while the unborn are completely innocent.

Well, except for those pesky little cases that pop up now and again where an inmate on death row is exonerated due to new evidence. Oops.

the demands for pro-lifers to do things like support paid maternity leave and contraception in order to be "truly pro-life" turn out being a cynical and contemptuous game of chicken

Except that people who genuinely value life want to do the things proven to preserve it. Banning abortion is not one of those things. Have you forgotten since the last thread that abortion is more common in countries where it is illegal, not less?

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_IAW.html

Quoting Meadowchik:

 Hogwash.

First of all, even if one disagrees with the death penalty, it is not equivalent to abortion.  It is a penalty for murderes found guily in a court of law, while the unborn are completely innocent.

Second of all, I haven't seen Pro-Choice individuals or organisations like Planned Parenthood agree to ban abortions as long as other "pro-life' legislation (like healthcare and welfare programs) are advanced.  I haven't seen any promises of this sort, so the demands for pro-lifers to do things like support paid maternity leave and contraception in order to be "truly pro-life" turn out being a cynical and contemptuous game of chicken. 

 


 

Driving abortion underground doesn't decrease it.

It will certainly decrease the reporting.

It will certainly incease maimed and dead women.

It will certainly be an additional burden to the poor.

And, if young girls without means get pregnant and can't abort, we can be sure there will be an increase in dumpster babies, and babies born to mothers who were too afraid to tell their parents they were pregnant and therefore didn't get prenatal care.


Meadowchik
by Silver Member on Jul. 18, 2013 at 10:09 AM
1 mom liked this

 I haven't assumed anything.  The law is public.  All you have to do to know what taxpayer dollars support is to look at what is legal and accepted under public programs as covered procedures.  

Spousal rape is illegal in the US, as it should be.  I cannot know if it's happening or not in peoples' homes, but I do have a say as a citizen in whether it should be legal. 

Quoting D-Town:

If you don't know what goes on between a patient and doctor why do you assume that it is an abortion?


It's okay to knowingly spend $300 on a Tylenol pill or to order tests that are unneeded but dammit if I am going to pay for what you imagine a patient is having done.


Are you willing to post your full medical history so I can determine which procedures you should reimburse me for? I'm pretty sure you have had some elective procedures done that I don't agree with. You should pay me for using my money in a manner I don't agree with.

More hypocrisy.


Quoting Meadowchik:

It's true that we cannot know every person's medical details, but it doesn't mean we have to fund abortions or treat them as legal procedures. They kill innocent human beings deliberately, EVERY time they are successful.



Society is fundamentally about the collective strength protecting the most weak and vulnerable among us. As women we have unique power, responsibility comes with it.



Many people continually deny the humanity of the unborn. Science tells us otherwise. Now that we know better, we can do better. Live and learn :)




Quoting D-Town:

It isn't the banning that is the issue. How do you even know what a woman discusses when she goes to her doctor. Yet pro life people want to assume that every pregnant woman in he U.S. is getting an abortion. It is t any of your business if she does or doesn't. If you want to open up a woman's private medical history then you should have to open yours up to the public





Otherwise. It isn't any of your business what goes on between a patient and their doctor.






Quoting Meadowchik:

Hmmm, euthanasia is outlawed and we still have HIPPA. Banning some procedures does not render privacy irrelevant.







Quoting D-Town:

I think that if abortion is made illega HIPPAlaws should be repealed. If someone is going to stick their nose in my medical care then I should have full, unrestricted access to their medical records as well.

 

PamR
by Pam on Jul. 18, 2013 at 10:10 AM
1 mom liked this


Well, OK, if that's what your dictionary says.  But it's still hypocritical.  If you believe it's wrong for a human to take another human life, that includes everyone, not just the unborn.

Quoting yourspecialkid:

 

Quoting PamR:



Quoting yourspecialkid:

 I didn't finish the article.  Being pro-life has absolutely nothing to do with the death penalty.  The death penalty is a societal punishment for a heinous crime.  Most abortions are the mother's way of dealing with an inconvenience.  They are not even in the same ballpark.

 

If you're pro-life, you're pro-life, right?  You feel that humans don't have the right to take a human life, whether that life is unborn or that life is someone who has done wrong. 

The death penalty serves no purpose other than revenge.  It does not deter crime and it does not save the taxpayers money (it actually costs more to put someone to death than to incarcerate them for life).  Minorities and all poor people are disporportionately given the death penalty (because whether or not you get death vs. life depends a lot on your legal representation) and there have been quite a few people exonerated with DNA evidence. 



 A dictionary for you too....

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/pro-life

 

pro-life (pr-lf)

adj.
Advocating the legal protection of human embyos and fetuses, especially by favoring the outlawing of abortion on the ground that it is the taking of a human life.



PamR
by Pam on Jul. 18, 2013 at 10:11 AM
2 moms liked this



Quoting romalove:


Quoting Meadowchik:

Laws restricting abortion can decrease abortion. 

A global collection of figures from different countries does not necessarily count for causal evidence.  More scientifically sound studies are those examining specific cases and specific laws.  For instance, the countries with lower rates also may have other things in common with each other which are the real cause for lower abortion rates.

The laws referred to here are specifically examined and the causal link less tenuous: http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2008/10/123/

Quoting Aestas:

First of all, even if one disagrees with the death penalty, it is not equivalent to abortion.  It is a penalty for murderes found guily in a court of law, while the unborn are completely innocent.

Well, except for those pesky little cases that pop up now and again where an inmate on death row is exonerated due to new evidence. Oops.

the demands for pro-lifers to do things like support paid maternity leave and contraception in order to be "truly pro-life" turn out being a cynical and contemptuous game of chicken

Except that people who genuinely value life want to do the things proven to preserve it. Banning abortion is not one of those things. Have you forgotten since the last thread that abortion is more common in countries where it is illegal, not less?

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_IAW.html

Quoting Meadowchik:

 Hogwash.

First of all, even if one disagrees with the death penalty, it is not equivalent to abortion.  It is a penalty for murderes found guily in a court of law, while the unborn are completely innocent.

Second of all, I haven't seen Pro-Choice individuals or organisations like Planned Parenthood agree to ban abortions as long as other "pro-life' legislation (like healthcare and welfare programs) are advanced.  I haven't seen any promises of this sort, so the demands for pro-lifers to do things like support paid maternity leave and contraception in order to be "truly pro-life" turn out being a cynical and contemptuous game of chicken. 

 


 

Driving abortion underground doesn't decrease it.

It will certainly decrease the reporting.

It will certainly incease maimed and dead women.

It will certainly be an additional burden to the poor.

And, if young girls without means get pregnant and can't abort, we can be sure there will be an increase in dumpster babies, and babies born to mothers who were too afraid to tell their parents they were pregnant and therefore didn't get prenatal care.


Irrelevant logic, Roma.  They only care about the fetus, not the woman and not the already-born baby.


Meadowchik
by Silver Member on Jul. 18, 2013 at 10:14 AM

 Comparing capital punishment to abortion is a false comparison.

Quoting illogicalkat:

I never said I was pro-life, nor did I say there was anything wrong with a person being anti-abortion.

I disagree with the statement that pro-life only applies to abortion, and I will continue to call anyone identifying as pro-life yet supporting capital punishment, a hypocrite.

And I will always support the right to legal and safe abortion, because I would rather a women be medically cared for than get a back-alley coat-hanger job that could kill her. Whether I would ever make that choice for myself is another matter entirely, and not up for debate here.

Quoting Meadowchik:

 Pro-life is about speaking for those who cannot speak for themselves, and defending their lives. Deathrow inmates have had the chance to speak for themselves, they have had the chance to defend themselves in a court of law.

BTW, are you implying that IF the death penalty ends, you would agree to a ban of abortions-on-demand, and all other abortions except when the mothers life is in medical jeapardy?

Quoting illogicalkat:

Pro-life means exactly that. Pro-LIFE. As in, don't kill other people, no matter how small or how big.

If you're anti-abortion but pro-capital punishment, then you aren't pro-life. You're just anti-abortion.

 

Quoting yourspecialkid:

 I didn't finish the article.  Being pro-life has absolutely nothing to do with the death penalty.  The death penalty is a societal punishment for a heinous crime.  Most abortions are the mother's way of dealing with an inconvenience.  They are not even in the same ballpark.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sisteract
by Whoopie on Jul. 18, 2013 at 10:15 AM

Yep- Any condition placed is called a choice-

Even innocent life vs not-

Quoting illogicalkat:

Pro-life means exactly that. Pro-LIFE. As in, don't kill other people, no matter how small or how big.

If you're anti-abortion but pro-capital punishment, then you aren't pro-life. You're just anti-abortion.


Quoting yourspecialkid:

 I didn't finish the article.  Being pro-life has absolutely nothing to do with the death penalty.  The death penalty is a societal punishment for a heinous crime.  Most abortions are the mother's way of dealing with an inconvenience.  They are not even in the same ballpark.

 




illogicalkat
by Bronze Member on Jul. 18, 2013 at 10:16 AM
1 mom liked this

Both end with the loss of life, so how is it false?

Not liking something doesn't make it not true.

Quoting Meadowchik:

 Comparing capital punishment to abortion is a false comparison.

Quoting illogicalkat:

I never said I was pro-life, nor did I say there was anything wrong with a person being anti-abortion.

I disagree with the statement that pro-life only applies to abortion, and I will continue to call anyone identifying as pro-life yet supporting capital punishment, a hypocrite.

And I will always support the right to legal and safe abortion, because I would rather a women be medically cared for than get a back-alley coat-hanger job that could kill her. Whether I would ever make that choice for myself is another matter entirely, and not up for debate here.

Quoting Meadowchik:

 Pro-life is about speaking for those who cannot speak for themselves, and defending their lives. Deathrow inmates have had the chance to speak for themselves, they have had the chance to defend themselves in a court of law.

BTW, are you implying that IF the death penalty ends, you would agree to a ban of abortions-on-demand, and all other abortions except when the mothers life is in medical jeapardy?

Quoting illogicalkat:

Pro-life means exactly that. Pro-LIFE. As in, don't kill other people, no matter how small or how big.

If you're anti-abortion but pro-capital punishment, then you aren't pro-life. You're just anti-abortion.


Quoting yourspecialkid:

 I didn't finish the article.  Being pro-life has absolutely nothing to do with the death penalty.  The death penalty is a societal punishment for a heinous crime.  Most abortions are the mother's way of dealing with an inconvenience.  They are not even in the same ballpark.

 



 



 



cjsbmom
by Lois Lane on Jul. 18, 2013 at 10:19 AM
1 mom liked this

And sometimes they are still wrongly convicted. So because they had the chance to speak, you think it's OK to kill an innocent man or woman? This is the hypocrisy many of us are talking about. 

Quoting Meadowchik:

 Pro-life is about speaking for those who cannot speak for themselves, and defending their lives. Deathrow inmates have had the chance to speak for themselves, they have had the chance to defend themselves in a court of law.

BTW, are you implying that IF the death penalty ends, you would agree to a ban of abortions-on-demand, and all other abortions except when the mothers life is in medical jeapardy?

Quoting illogicalkat:

Pro-life means exactly that. Pro-LIFE. As in, don't kill other people, no matter how small or how big.

If you're anti-abortion but pro-capital punishment, then you aren't pro-life. You're just anti-abortion.


Quoting yourspecialkid:

 I didn't finish the article.  Being pro-life has absolutely nothing to do with the death penalty.  The death penalty is a societal punishment for a heinous crime.  Most abortions are the mother's way of dealing with an inconvenience.  They are not even in the same ballpark.

 



 


romalove
by Roma on Jul. 18, 2013 at 10:22 AM


Quoting Meadowchik:

 Comparing capital punishment to abortion is a false comparison.

Quoting illogicalkat:

I never said I was pro-life, nor did I say there was anything wrong with a person being anti-abortion.

I disagree with the statement that pro-life only applies to abortion, and I will continue to call anyone identifying as pro-life yet supporting capital punishment, a hypocrite.

And I will always support the right to legal and safe abortion, because I would rather a women be medically cared for than get a back-alley coat-hanger job that could kill her. Whether I would ever make that choice for myself is another matter entirely, and not up for debate here.

Quoting Meadowchik:

 Pro-life is about speaking for those who cannot speak for themselves, and defending their lives. Deathrow inmates have had the chance to speak for themselves, they have had the chance to defend themselves in a court of law.

BTW, are you implying that IF the death penalty ends, you would agree to a ban of abortions-on-demand, and all other abortions except when the mothers life is in medical jeapardy?

Quoting illogicalkat:

Pro-life means exactly that. Pro-LIFE. As in, don't kill other people, no matter how small or how big.

If you're anti-abortion but pro-capital punishment, then you aren't pro-life. You're just anti-abortion.


Quoting yourspecialkid:

 I didn't finish the article.  Being pro-life has absolutely nothing to do with the death penalty.  The death penalty is a societal punishment for a heinous crime.  Most abortions are the mother's way of dealing with an inconvenience.  They are not even in the same ballpark.

 



 



 

Right.

It compares a non-sentient, non-born, potential person with a living breathing sentient person.


Add your quick reply below:
You must be a member to reply to this post.
Join the Meeting Place for Moms!
Talk to other moms, share advice, and have fun!

(minimum 6 characters)

close Join now to connect to
other members!
Connect with Facebook or Sign Up Using Email

Already Joined? LOG IN