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Oh yes! I'm going there. Baby vs. Embryo

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Here’s a test:

I’m holding a baby in one hand and a petri dish holding an embryo in the other.

I’m going to drop one. You chose which.

If you really truly believe an embryo is the same thing as a baby, it should be impossible for you to decide. You should have to flip a coin, that’s how impossible the decision should be.

Shot in the dark, you saved the baby.

Because you’re aware there’s a difference.

Now admit it.

by on Jul. 18, 2013 at 2:19 PM
Replies (41-50):
lilbit53009
by on Jul. 18, 2013 at 2:57 PM

that doesn't even make sense

Quoting viv212:

I know!!! I can't wait for a friend to get pregnant so that I can make her have an abortion. Hopefully I can be the driver!

Quoting 2Gs:

People who post shit like usually are trying to justify having or wanting to have an abortion. 



2Gs
by Member on Jul. 18, 2013 at 2:57 PM

I hate the terms pro-life and pro-choice.  We need a pro-common sense group.  Having an abortion is a bad thing.  Yucky.  Painful.  Expensive.  We need less of them.  Everyone should agree on that.  

I don't think people realize what 1.2 Million abortions equates to.  There were 4 Million live births in the US last year.  (Only 20,000 domestic infant adoptions btw.) 

Don't you all think that's a ridiculous number?  

romalove
by Roma on Jul. 18, 2013 at 2:57 PM
1 mom liked this


Quoting AlekD:

/smacks gently

Quoting mehamil1:

Ouch! Don't hurt me. I'm suffering from an allergic reaction to lemons. 

Quoting AlekD:

I would react in the same way as if you were dropping two infants. I would dive for both, hopefully catching both of them, then smack you for risking physical harm to defenseless human beings in order to make some kind of political point.


I think, Alek, this is a "thought out" type answer.

In reality, when you have a split second to make a decision (imagine both are falling at the same time), instinct takes over.

My sister was once holding my daughter and dropped her, leaving a gash in her forehead inflicted by the coffee table edge as she fell.  My sister, in her adrenaline rush, ran up the stairs.  Me, across the room, in my adrenaline rush, dashed over, picked up the baby (she was 20 months old), ran to the kitchen, and immediately got a dishcloth and applied pressure to the wound.  

No thinking involved in either of our parts, she does flight when confronted with an emergency, I'm one of those take charge people who don't even realize what's going on around them when it's happening.  To this day when I think of it, I see it in slow motion pieces-parts, running with the baby, sitting her on the counter, etc.

Confronted with a live baby falling or a petri dish with an embryo in it, even if you think they both deserve saving, I think instinct would have you grab for the baby and not the plastic.

JMO

ReadWriteLuv
by Silver Member on Jul. 18, 2013 at 2:57 PM
4 moms liked this
It's not a living human, it's an embryo in a Petri dish that only has the possibility of becoming a living human being if it implants and grows.

One is a life, the other simply has the potential to be one.


Quoting x_Starr_x:

Its both a living human its only a matter of gestation age the only "relivance" to this post is choice of what has a better chance of no harm done if not dropped. Its a bad analogy and sad really how people care so little for life no matter the gestation age.
mehamil1
by Platinum Member on Jul. 18, 2013 at 2:59 PM
4 moms liked this

Adoption is a choice for those who want it. 

I personally would rather abort than give my baby up for adoption. I would rather kill myself than hand my baby over to someone else. That's just me. There are those who are strong enough to give their babies up, I am not one of them. 

I get that it's a life. I would dive for the baby because it's a fucking baby. Screw the petri dish. That's not a baby. That's the whole point. I would no more dive for the petri dish than I would if it were a bug or the embryo of a cat or dog or whale or pig or dinosaur (ugh, that would be a hard one because it would be cool if it could become an actual dinosaur). 

Give me the choice between catching a baby pig or a pig embryo I would dive for the baby pig. And then snuggle the shit out of that thing. I love baby pigs. 

Quoting 2Gs:

Now now now.... you can't be "Pro-choice" and ignore all the choices.  Adoption is a choice.  I never said anyone owes infertile couples a baby, but it is a too-often, overlooked choice.

The fact that someone would dive for a baby proves nothing.  The fact that YOU would dive for the baby perhaps indicates that you can only understand life if you can see it.  No one will ever change my mind about what constitutes a life.

Quoting mehamil1:

I don't like abortion either but I would never tell someone it's a horrible choice because it's not. 

Infertile couples are irrelevant in the abortion debate. Just because people who are pregnant and want to abort doesn't mean they owe infertile people shit. They owe them nothing. There is no connection between the two. Those who are pregnant and don't want to be owe no one nothing. Women are not wombs, incubators for those who want children but can't have them. Shit does not work that way. 

There are not tons of resources for women who want to keep their babies. I myself had an unplanned pregnancy 10 years ago and resources were not bursting at the seams. I had to rely on the help of my family. 

It is a life. But the bacteria in my guy is also life. The virus I have right now is life. Just because it's life does not make it a sound argument. 

It's not a baby. The fact that you would dive for the baby in my one hand instead of the embryo in my other hand PROVES that you know there's a difference. You know it. 

I'm glad your prochoice despite these other notions you have. Too many carry these same notions and call themselves pro life. So you have that going for you. The cognitive dissonance isn't crazy strong. 

Quoting 2Gs:

I'm actually pro-choice myself.  But I think abortion is a horrible choice.   And I'm sad for anyone who has to make it.  1.2 million abortions are performed in the US every year.  There are 7 million infertile couples and countless methods of birth control out there.  Plus there are tons of resources for women who want to keep their baby.

It's a life.  It totally is.  I don't know how anyone can ignore science.  I've been pregnant 4 times and lost 4 babys (one set of twins).  I had one and adopted one so I've sat through quite a few ultrasounds in my day. 

I say everyone deserves the choice to abort.  But it is a baby.  And if you aborted it you killed it.  Now live with yourself.   What I don't like is people pretending they aborted a marshmallow or something.

Quoting romalove:
Quoting 2Gs:

People who pst shit like usually are trying to justify having or wanting to have an abortion. 

So do you have an answer for her question?

And welcome to the forum!

lilbit53009
by on Jul. 18, 2013 at 2:59 PM

pro-chioce means you feel woman should have a choice in whether they continue a pregnancy or not

it doesn't include the choice of adoption

Quoting 2Gs:

Now now now.... you can't be "Pro-choice" and ignore all the choices.  Adoption is a choice.  I never said anyone owes infertile couples a baby, but it is a too-often, overlooked choice.

The fact that someone would dive for a baby proves nothing.  The fact that YOU would dive for the baby perhaps indicates that you can only understand life if you can see it.  No one will ever change my mind about what constitutes a life.

Quoting mehamil1:

I don't like abortion either but I would never tell someone it's a horrible choice because it's not. 

Infertile couples are irrelevant in the abortion debate. Just because people who are pregnant and want to abort doesn't mean they owe infertile people shit. They owe them nothing. There is no connection between the two. Those who are pregnant and don't want to be owe no one nothing. Women are not wombs, incubators for those who want children but can't have them. Shit does not work that way. 

There are not tons of resources for women who want to keep their babies. I myself had an unplanned pregnancy 10 years ago and resources were not bursting at the seams. I had to rely on the help of my family. 

It is a life. But the bacteria in my guy is also life. The virus I have right now is life. Just because it's life does not make it a sound argument. 

It's not a baby. The fact that you would dive for the baby in my one hand instead of the embryo in my other hand PROVES that you know there's a difference. You know it. 

I'm glad your prochoice despite these other notions you have. Too many carry these same notions and call themselves pro life. So you have that going for you. The cognitive dissonance isn't crazy strong. 

Quoting 2Gs:

I'm actually pro-choice myself.  But I think abortion is a horrible choice.   And I'm sad for anyone who has to make it.  1.2 million abortions are performed in the US every year.  There are 7 million infertile couples and countless methods of birth control out there.  Plus there are tons of resources for women who want to keep their baby.

It's a life.  It totally is.  I don't know how anyone can ignore science.  I've been pregnant 4 times and lost 4 babys (one set of twins).  I had one and adopted one so I've sat through quite a few ultrasounds in my day. 

I say everyone deserves the choice to abort.  But it is a baby.  And if you aborted it you killed it.  Now live with yourself.   What I don't like is people pretending they aborted a marshmallow or something.

Quoting romalove:
Quoting 2Gs:

People who pst shit like usually are trying to justify having or wanting to have an abortion. 

So do you have an answer for her question?

And welcome to the forum!



smalltownmom03
by Member on Jul. 18, 2013 at 3:00 PM

I would choose the baby. An embryo cannot grow to full term in a petri dish.

AlekD
by Gold Member on Jul. 18, 2013 at 3:00 PM
1 mom liked this

I'm not sure. I am pretty emotionally and intellectually firm on my belief that an unborn baby and a born one both have inherent worth and dignity. I think I would make a mad dash for both. The prospective pain of the infant would be in conflict with the likelihood that the unborn would actually die from that fall. I can't say with certainty what I would do in a situation I have never been in, but I still think my guess is pretty likely.

Quoting romalove:


Quoting AlekD:

/smacks gently

Quoting mehamil1:

Ouch! Don't hurt me. I'm suffering from an allergic reaction to lemons. 

Quoting AlekD:

I would react in the same way as if you were dropping two infants. I would dive for both, hopefully catching both of them, then smack you for risking physical harm to defenseless human beings in order to make some kind of political point.


I think, Alek, this is a "thought out" type answer.

In reality, when you have a split second to make a decision (imagine both are falling at the same time), instinct takes over.

My sister was once holding my daughter and dropped her, leaving a gash in her forehead inflicted by the coffee table edge as she fell.  My sister, in her adrenaline rush, ran up the stairs.  Me, across the room, in my adrenaline rush, dashed over, picked up the baby (she was 20 months old), ran to the kitchen, and immediately got a dishcloth and applied pressure to the wound.  

No thinking involved in either of our parts, she does flight when confronted with an emergency, I'm one of those take charge people who don't even realize what's going on around them when it's happening.  To this day when I think of it, I see it in slow motion pieces-parts, running with the baby, sitting her on the counter, etc.

Confronted with a live baby falling or a petri dish with an embryo in it, even if you think they both deserve saving, I think instinct would have you grab for the baby and not the plastic.

JMO


                      

"True joy does not come from owning something, it comes from the encounter in relations with others, in feeling loved and understood. Because joy comes from the gratefulness of an encounter. The joy of "the encounter with Jesus" and in "feeling loved by God. " Pope Francis                                                    My Blog

mehamil1
by Platinum Member on Jul. 18, 2013 at 3:01 PM

That made me laugh and laughing hurts alek!! My mouth is swollen shut. 

Quoting AlekD:

/smacks gently

Quoting mehamil1:

Ouch! Don't hurt me. I'm suffering from an allergic reaction to lemons. 

Quoting AlekD:

I would react in the same way as if you were dropping two infants. I would dive for both, hopefully catching both of them, then smack you for risking physical harm to defenseless human beings in order to make some kind of political point.

2Gs
by Member on Jul. 18, 2013 at 3:03 PM
2 moms liked this

This was a nice thing for you to say.   I used to think an embro wasn't a life but my thinking has evolved since having children.  I do believe everyone is entitled to their opinion and yes... their own choice.  Maybe because I have so many babies in my world right now that I'm so anti-abortion.  Babies are so wonderful.  

Quoting punky3175:

Well thank you for that very well thought out answer. I was honestly expecting a rude, snarky comment and was pleasantly surprised.

I don't agree with you but it is obvious you have spent much time researching and developing your stance and I respect that. :-)


Quoting 2Gs:

The only reason I'm not totally pro-life is that I don't think we could ever logistically legislate it.  Of course the liberals (and many conservatives) would insist in a provision for rape victims and everyone probably agrees that abortions are justifiable if the mother's health is in danger but how could we really manage that?  And I think a lot of women would cry rape just to get an abortion.  Plus I'm not going to tell someone what to do with their body.  BUT I'm not going to pretend it's something it is not.  If you actually have to get an abortion, then you better be damn sure you can live with yourself when it's done.  I'm older than most of the women who post here and I have a lot of friends who aborted and now are in their 40s and they never ended up having children for whatever reason.  I"m seeing a lot of people suddenly expeience delayed deep regret.  Or the ones who do have babies have been haunted by their abortions.  There are too many victims in most abortion scenarios.  

I really do hate much of the pro-life rhetoric becuase I think they go about it all wrong.  But I do like the Silent No More campaign.  

Plus I adopted so, of course, I have a huge heart for that.  I know adoption is not something most woman could do, but it's something almost no once considers and it can end up being the most beautiful choice of all.



Quoting punky3175:

Not at all. Pro-life v pro-choice is a hot topic. This is just an attempt to illicit conversation. And by your response I'm guessing you are 'pro-life' and see the validity of her argument. And you don't like that you see and understand it. And would opt to save the baby rather than the embryo.



Quoting 2Gs:

People who post shit like usually are trying to justify having or wanting to have an abortion. 




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