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Oh yes! I'm going there. Baby vs. Embryo

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Here’s a test:

I’m holding a baby in one hand and a petri dish holding an embryo in the other.

I’m going to drop one. You chose which.

If you really truly believe an embryo is the same thing as a baby, it should be impossible for you to decide. You should have to flip a coin, that’s how impossible the decision should be.

Shot in the dark, you saved the baby.

Because you’re aware there’s a difference.

Now admit it.

by on Jul. 18, 2013 at 2:19 PM
Replies (491-498):
miss_AP
by on Jul. 22, 2013 at 6:32 PM

Curious to hear your answer, would you answer this?

------------------------------------------------------

Out of curiosity....what would your opinion be in this situation:


Single mom of 2 kids....say 2 and 5. Doing okay, not using social services at all, but pretty much lives paycheck to paycheck with her child support. She's not destitute by any means because she's smart with her money and lives within her means. She uses a diapragm, spermacide, a condom, and take a precautionary Plan B. Even with those 4 levels of protection, she discovers she is pregnant. She is emotionally unable to carry the baby and adopt it, and she knows this. To keep and carry the baby will cost her time off work decreasing her pay, and will be a never-ending need for increased expenses with decreased income. She had employer-sponsored insurance for herself, kids are covered by their father, but the baby will likely go on medicaid due to the unaffordable increased cost of adding her to private insurance. She will likely use WIC, potentially food stamps. In about 2 or 3 years she will need to find a new place to live to make room for the baby and given the increased expense significantly higher than increase in income, she will probably need and qualify for housing assistance. She will require state assistance to provide an extra $600/mo in infant childcare to work. 

Genuinely curious what your view is in this case? Not just you, but the others that state all live has value and they would save both. 

Quoting 3rdwriter:

First of all, why would you be holding a petri dish while your holding a baby? 2) would you make a choice if you were holding 2 twin babies, which one you would drop? 3)if you make a choice of which baby to drop...you don't deserve to have any babies in your arms.4)if you don't want your babies, there are many women that would want it, that can't have them.5) you should not be having unprotected sex, if you dont want your BABY!


miss_AP
by on Jul. 22, 2013 at 6:46 PM

Out of curiosity.....what if you are pro-choice and pro-death penalty? ;)


This is one of those funny political line things I always get a kick out of :D TYPICALLY (just typically....) conservates are pro-life and pro-death penalty.....which I see is contradictory. But TYPICALLY liberals are pro-choice and anti-death penalty. Which kind of seems the same kind of contradictory....but I tend to see the argument presented by liberals supporting pro-choice and not conservatives supporting the death penalty. I wonder why....?? No idea.

For the record I'm just pro-death as someone once told me, since I'm pro-choice and pro-death penalty ;) Kill 'em all, kill 'em all :P

Quoting Mommy_of_Riley:

I HATE when people scream "IM PRO-LIFE" but turn around and say "but I support the death penalty"...

Seriously?

Who the hell are you to decide what life is valuable and innocent and what life is not? Disgusting.


Mommy_of_Riley
by Jes on Jul. 22, 2013 at 8:46 PM
1 mom liked this
LOL! I honestly can't answer your question.

I consider myself pro-choice&life because I think every viable life matters but I don't believe it's cut and dry... (Medical emergency, rape, etc.). I don't believe that killing one person for a crime makes it "even". I don't think I really fall into any of the typical "labels"...


Quoting miss_AP:

Out of curiosity.....what if you are pro-choice and pro-death penalty? ;)


This is one of those funny political line things I always get a kick out of :D TYPICALLY (just typically....) conservates are pro-life and pro-death penalty.....which I see is contradictory. But TYPICALLY liberals are pro-choice and anti-death penalty. Which kind of seems the same kind of contradictory....but I tend to see the argument presented by liberals supporting pro-choice and not conservatives supporting the death penalty. I wonder why....?? No idea.

For the record I'm just pro-death as someone once told me, since I'm pro-choice and pro-death penalty ;) Kill 'em all, kill 'em all :P

Quoting Mommy_of_Riley:

I HATE when people scream "IM PRO-LIFE" but turn around and say "but I support the death penalty"...



Seriously?



Who the hell are you to decide what life is valuable and innocent and what life is not? Disgusting.


Posted on CafeMom Mobile
mrsbarefootsoul
by Member on Jul. 22, 2013 at 9:49 PM

My point is: Murdering a baby should not be an option to be used for our convenience. 


Quoting miss_AP:

Thanks for answering. I don't really understand your view, and definitley don't agree, but I appreciate you answering. 

Quoting mrsbarefootsoul:

EXACTLY. All methods fail. Abstinence does not. If she knew that she couldn't support a baby, she has no business having sex. 

Don't you see what happens there? We make it "ok" to murder a baby so we can have sex. 

"Well, I can't financially or emotionally take care of a baby, so I guess I'll go get it's spinal cord snipped so I don't have to deal with it"

INSTEAD OF

"Well, I can't financially or emotionally take care of a baby, so I will not have sex until I can. 


How am I the only person who sees how assinine that is?! 

Sex is not a right, or a necessity. Making murder seem ok just so people can enjoy themselves is not something I can agree with.

Obviously, I understand rape circumstances. But this is not one of those. 


mrsbarefootsoul
by Member on Jul. 22, 2013 at 9:52 PM

My fight is not "no sex" it's "no abortion". This post you quoted was a response I made to a question that asked specifically about a single mother. All I'm saying is that sex makes babies. If you have sex, you could make a baby. If you make a baby, you should not kill the baby. My viewpoint is really not so difficult to understand. 

I will ALWAYS be against abortion used for convenience of the people who made the baby in the first place.

And it doesn't matter how they do it.


Quoting punky3175:

So no sex for married people unless they are ready for more babies.

And FYI - in most elective abortions, there's no spinal cord to snip.


Quoting mrsbarefootsoul:

EXACTLY. All methods fail. Abstinence does not. If she knew that she couldn't support a baby, she has no business having sex. 

Don't you see what happens there? We make it "ok" to murder a baby so we can have sex. 

"Well, I can't financially or emotionally take care of a baby, so I guess I'll go get it's spinal cord snipped so I don't have to deal with it"

INSTEAD OF

"Well, I can't financially or emotionally take care of a baby, so I will not have sex until I can. 


How am I the only person who sees how assinine that is?! 

Sex is not a right, or a necessity. Making murder seem ok just so people can enjoy themselves is not something I can agree with.

Obviously, I understand rape circumstances. But this is not one of those. 


Quoting miss_AP:

All methods fail....which is why she stacked 4. She wasn't aware she was incredibly fertile until this occurred. She wasnt' being stupid or reckless....she took a lot of precaution.

Quoting mrsbarefootsoul:

I would say that a woman in this situation probably should not be having sex in the first place, since, well, sex makes babies. All methods of birth control fail every now and then. If a woman knows that should she get pregnant, she would be in the situation you just mentioned, I would hope she would abstain from sexual activity.


Quoting miss_AP:

Out of curiosity....what would your opinion be in this situation:




aurora.dove
by on Jul. 22, 2013 at 10:33 PM

I was just stating that religion isn't the reason for my views. Many people get that misconstrued as a reason people are pro life. I think that before abortion was legal, there were a lot less teen pregnancies, and in general the world was a much more simple place. I think that children didn't have sex unprotected and get knocked up, because they understood the consequences. Now society has the midset, oh well, I can just kill it if I don't want it, so what's the point? In the case that you stated, I honestly believe that if that were to happen that she should keep the baby and figure out a way to care for it as best as possible, as it was her who opened her legs in the first place. I think if she didn't want anymore children and couldn't financially handle another one, she should have gotten her tubes tied to prevent that. Though I honestly find it hard to believe that someone actually got pregnant using birth control, spermacide, and barrier method as well, if so she was probably using them incorrectly and hopefully if this is a real scenerio she had her tubes tied during or after the abortion, so that she cannot further create life just to kill it.

Quoting miss_AP:

I guess I'm not sure where religion or higher power anything like that came in? I was just wondering your opinions on the societal impacts and ramificaitons.

Quoting aurora.dove:

I believe that life is created for a reason, I'm not religious at all so it isn't that, I don't even believe in a higher power or diety. I do believe though that everything happens for a reason, and no matter what the condition was, that life was created for a reason. Destroying that life could potentially change the world.

Quoting miss_AP:

Ok this might read snarky, but I swear its not. Just, again, actual curiosity of your belief.


She has a decent job, she's not in poverty without the addition of the extra baby. She lives within her means as I said, and can provide for her family. She's well-educated and in a good field and has continuing education constantly. She pays her taxes....not even considering government economic health -- but given the population issues of the country and the world do you still advocate having the baby and using social services and resources to add another child? Potentially taking away available benefits from someone that actually needs them for issues completely out of their control? Is adding another human to a strained world/economy/environment worth the cost to society in the forms of social services payments, use of resources, plus the personal costs? It might be to you, I"m just wondering. Some people haven't thought past the fact of "it's a baby" to the consequences and the butterfly effect.


romalove
by Roma on Jul. 22, 2013 at 10:43 PM
1 mom liked this


Quoting mrsbarefootsoul:

My fight is not "no sex" it's "no abortion". This post you quoted was a response I made to a question that asked specifically about a single mother. All I'm saying is that sex makes babies. If you have sex, you could make a baby. If you make a baby, you should not kill the baby. My viewpoint is really not so difficult to understand. 

I will ALWAYS be against abortion used for convenience of the people who made the baby in the first place.

And it doesn't matter how they do it.


Quoting punky3175:

So no sex for married people unless they are ready for more babies.

And FYI - in most elective abortions, there's no spinal cord to snip.


Quoting mrsbarefootsoul:

EXACTLY. All methods fail. Abstinence does not. If she knew that she couldn't support a baby, she has no business having sex. 

Don't you see what happens there? We make it "ok" to murder a baby so we can have sex. 

"Well, I can't financially or emotionally take care of a baby, so I guess I'll go get it's spinal cord snipped so I don't have to deal with it"

INSTEAD OF

"Well, I can't financially or emotionally take care of a baby, so I will not have sex until I can. 


How am I the only person who sees how assinine that is?! 

Sex is not a right, or a necessity. Making murder seem ok just so people can enjoy themselves is not something I can agree with.

Obviously, I understand rape circumstances. But this is not one of those. 


Quoting miss_AP:

All methods fail....which is why she stacked 4. She wasn't aware she was incredibly fertile until this occurred. She wasnt' being stupid or reckless....she took a lot of precaution.

Quoting mrsbarefootsoul:

I would say that a woman in this situation probably should not be having sex in the first place, since, well, sex makes babies. All methods of birth control fail every now and then. If a woman knows that should she get pregnant, she would be in the situation you just mentioned, I would hope she would abstain from sexual activity.


Quoting miss_AP:

Out of curiosity....what would your opinion be in this situation:




A few points:

Murder is a legal construct; abortion is legal, it is not murder.

Sex is a basic human drive, like eating.  Speaking about sex as if it's shopping, just something you can choose to do or not do, is silly.  Yes, we have choices, but realistically, we are human animals with human sex drive and that biological imperative to mate WILL win out over common sense, far too often, and especially with younger people.

Birth control has failures at times, even when used properly.

There are times when it is for the life and health of the mother that a pregnancy must be ended.  We must have abortion safe and legal if for no other reason than this one.

zqqkeeper
by on Jul. 24, 2013 at 11:11 AM

I'm pro-life. I honestly would try some super-hero blitz to save both. I would NOT be able to choose. One more trying to justify abortion and claim that pro-lifers hold a double standard. Nice.

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