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Time for a national conversation? probably not.

Posted by on Jul. 23, 2013 at 8:09 AM
  • 38 Replies
4 moms liked this


 Bill O’Reilly delivered an impassioned Talking Points Memo on tonight’s Factor. He tackled the race problem facing America and the lack of leadership by the president to solve those issues. In part, he blamed the disintegration of the family, the entertainment industry and drug dealers.

O’Reilly sent this powerful message: “You want a better situation for blacks? Give them a chance to revive their neighborhoods and culture. Work with the good people to stop the bad people. […] You can’t legislate good parenting or responsible entertainment. But you can fight against the madness with discipline, a firm message and little tolerance for excuse making. It is now time for the African American leadership, including President Obama, to stop the nonsense. Walk away from the world of victimization and grievance and lead the way out of this mess.”

He said that “race hustlers” have intimidated the conversation, “turning any valid criticism of African American culture into charges of racial bias. […] You want racism? That’s racism.”

Bill: Hi, I’m bill o'reilly. Thanks for watching us tonight. President Obama and the race problem. That is the subject of this evening's talking points memo.
On Friday, the president delivered surprise remarks to the press about the
trayvon martin case and race in general.

His pain point – main point his plea for understanding.

>> There are very few african-american men in this country who haven't had the experience of being followed when they were shopping in a department store.
That includes me.

I don't want to exaggerate this but those sets of experiences inform how the
african-american community interprets what happened one night in Florida.
>>

Bill: That's true. Many black Americans harbor at least some resentment
for past injury. But what president Obama surely knows is that you
cannot reach a fair criminal record or design effective public policy that solves present problems by divelg dwelling on the sins of the past.

Talking points believes the president was correct in addressing the race issue
and framing it with the martin case he is the leader of America and the
country is talking about.

This by the way, when you hear a pundit or politician saying we should have a
quote:  Conversation about race, that means you are in for a sea of bloviating
which will likely lead nowhere.

The sad truth is that from the president on down, our leadership has no clue, no
clue at all about how to solve problems within the black community.
And many are frightened to even broach the issue.

That's because race hustlers and the grievant's industry have con we looted
the so-called conversation. Turning the culture into african-american bias.

So many in power walk away leaving millions of law abiding african-americans
who pretty much fend for themselves in violent neighborhoods.

You want racism? That's racism. Thus, it is time for some straight talk. And I hope the president listening tonight because we need him to lead on their.

Trayvon martin was killed because circumstances got out of control. He was scrutinized by a neighborhood watchman, George Zimmerman, because of the way he looked.

Not necessarily his skin color, there is no evidence of that but because he was a stranger to Zimmerman and was dressed in clothing sometimes used by street criminals.

It was wrong for Zimmerman to confront martin based on his appearance.
But the culture that we have in this country does lead to criminal profiling
because young black American men are so often involved in crime will statistics overwhelming but here's the headline.

Young black men commit homicides at a rate 10 times greater than whites
and Hispanics combined.

When presented like damning evidence like that and holocaust in Chicago where
hundreds are murdered each year.

The civil rights industry looks the other way or makes excuses. They blame guns, poor education, lack of jobs, rarely do they define the problem accurately so here it is the reason there is so much violence and chaos in the black precincts is the disintegration of the african-american family.

Right now about 73% of all black babies are born out of wedlock that drives poverty and the lack of involved fathers leads to young boys growing up resentful and unsupervised.

When was the last time you saw a public service ad telling young black girls to avoid becoming pregnant?

Has president Obama done such an ad? How about Jackson or sharpton? Has the congressional black caucus demanded an ad like that?

How about the pc pundits who work for nbc news? White people don't force black people to have babies out of wedlock. That's a personal decision. A decision that has devastated millions of children and led to disaster both socially and
economically.

So, raise without much structure young black men, often reject education and gravitate towards the street culture, drugs, hurst ling, gangs.

Nobody forces them to do that.

Again, it is a personal decision. But the entertainment industry encourages the responsibility by marketing a gangster culture, hip hop, movies, trashy TV shows to impressionable children.

In fact, president Obama has welcomed some of the worst offenders in that cesspool to the white house when he should be condemning what these
weasels are doing.

These so-called entertainers get rich while the kids who emulate their lyrics and attitude destroy themselves and then there is the drug situation.

Go to Detroit and ask anyone living on the south side of the 8-mile road
what destroyed their city? They will tell you narcotics.

They know addiction leads to crime and debasement. What do the race hustlers
and limousine liberals yell about the number of blackmen in prison for selling
drugs.Oh, it's so unfair.

It's a nonviolent crime and blacks are targeted. That is one of the biggest
lies in the history of this country.

The thugs who sell hard drugs, no matter what color they are, deserve to be put
away for long periods of time.

They sell poison, they sell a product that enslaves and kills.

They are scum.

When was the last time you heard the congressional black caucus say that? How about Jackson and sharpton?

How about president Obama? The solution to the epidemic of violent crime in poor black neighborhoods is to actively discourage pregnancies out of marriage.

To impose strict discipline in the public schools, including mandatory student
uniforms, and to create a zero tolerance policy for gun and drug crimes imposing harsh mandatory prison time on the offenders.

And, finally, challenging the entertainment destroy stop pedaling garbage. Hey listen up you greed heads, if a kid can't speak proper English, uses the f word in every sentence, it's disgraceful, it's disrespectful in his or her manner, that child will never, never be able to compete in the marketplace of America.

Never.

And it has nothing to do with slavery. It has everything to do with you Hollywood people and you derelict parents. You're the ones hurting these vulnerable children.

You want a conversation you got it. You want a better situation for blacks, give them a chance to revive their neighborhoods and culture. Work with the good people to stop the bad people.

Pumping money into the chaos does little. You can't legislate good parenting responsible entertainment.

You can fight against the madness, discipline, firm message and little tolerance for excuse-making.

It's now time for the african-american leadership, including president Obama to stop the nonsense.

Walk away from the world of victimization and grievance and lead the way out of
this mess.

And that's the memo.

Minnow Slayer

by on Jul. 23, 2013 at 8:09 AM
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Replies (1-10):
Ms.KitKat
by Platinum Member on Jul. 23, 2013 at 8:39 AM

 Bill was ON FIRE! last night! I wonder what crawled up his butt LOL

Thanks for posting this OP.  It's a bit long and I had a a loooong day yesterday (and still recovering) but I will read this thoroughly in a BIT. 

Carpy
by Ruby Member on Jul. 23, 2013 at 8:41 AM
4 moms liked this

Yes he was.  One of his best shows.

Quoting Ms.KitKat:

 Bill was ON FIRE! last night! I wonder what crawled up his butt LOL

Thanks for posting this OP.  It's a bit long and I had a a loooong day yesterday (and still recovering) but I will read this thoroughly in a BIT. 


Minnow Slayer

idunno1234
by Silver Member on Jul. 23, 2013 at 9:26 AM
5 moms liked this

President: " There are very few african-american men in this country who haven't had the experience of being followed when they were shopping in a department store.
That includes me.

I don't want to exaggerate this but those sets of experiences inform how the
african-american community interprets what happened one night in Florida."

O'Reilly: "That's true. Many black Americans harbor at least some resentment
for past injury. But what president Obama surely knows is that you
cannot reach a fair criminal record or design effective public policy that solves present problems by dwelling on the sins of the past."

More O'Reilly: "And it has nothing to do with slavery. It has everything to do with you Hollywood people and you derelict parents. You're the ones hurting these vulnerable children."

Notice the total disconnect.  O'Reilly himself, who has no problem pointing out the very real and inarguable problems from within certain communities, can not acknowledge what the president himself stated-  this isn't just about past grievances regarding slavery, its about the very real treatment, attitude and inherent racism that is still pervasive today.

I have been very clear about my belief in people needing to take responsibility for casting off the shackles of victimhood but how idiotic for those of us on the outside looking in to think that this is the only problem, that racism really is a thing of the past, that the issues only have to do with "past grievances".

The president talks about being followed for being black, something that is apparently a painfully common event for many in the black community and O'Reilly talks about letting go of past grievances, totally disregarding the challenges black people face just for being black.

Victims need to take responsibility for their own lives in spite of what obstacles are put in their way if they truly desire profound change.  I always post that change needs to come from within.  I absolutely agree that the black community has suffered profoundly from a lack of decent leadership.  That healing needs to come from within.  But its conveniently naive for those of us who have never had to walk in a black person's shoes to pretend that there aren't some very real obstacles in society that most of us don't have to deal with.  Even the most motivated, outstanding black individuals who have broken that shackle are made to feel less than on occasion by ignorant assholes.

There is no excuse for the "blame the victim, its all bad parenting, drugs and the entertainment industry's fault"  without acknowledging the rest- this idea that we don't have to acknowledge that a few generations away from being considered property isn't enough to normalize the way skin color affects attitude.  

O'Reilly is typical- someone who finds it easy from his comfortable perch to pontificate on the ills of a community, to pretend that blame lies totally within that community and that racism is a thing of the past.  Without the acknowledgement that racism is still alive and well, his whole speech is utterly hollow, devoid of anything but showcasing another white asshole who's never walked in those shoes, pointing fingers at everything but racism.

UpSheRises
by Platinum Member on Jul. 23, 2013 at 9:27 AM

I don't even know what a "national conversation" is supposed to be.

Is is anything different than what we do here all day?

Luvnlogic
by Silver Member on Jul. 23, 2013 at 10:01 AM
5 moms liked this
He makes some valid points about accountability then says it's Hollywood's and the music industry's fault? Odd. Yes, better schools and a better support system in poor areas are essential, but don't throw money at it? How do you improve schools without money or at least some serious restructuring of budgets? How do you prevent teen pregnancy by limiting access to birth control? And, yes, kids are obviously better supported in two parent households, but you can't legislate that. I don't even know how to address that :( I don't think anyone is fully prepared to take on the poverty situation in this country. Not only has it become a culture that people feel comfortable in (not that they enjoy, but it's what they know and understand), it's glorified in some entertainment industries as well as in the hoods themselves. The toughest and most criminal elements are the role models of how to survive the streets. In roads and out roads need to be made. There has to be accountability by society as a whole. Everyone who has benefitted from the structure of the status quo owns a piece of this legacy. I believe in the "we rise and fall together". While the fall seems primarily focused in mid to lower class incomes at this point, it will come around to bite those who see it as "us" and "them". As the income gap grows, so does the resentment gap. Bottom up and top down (from the fed level) measures should all be on the table. Taking special interest money out of politics, thereby freeing up OUR reps to actually rep US rather than corporations along with term limits (to stop the perpetual campaigning) would grease the wheels in government.
Carpy
by Ruby Member on Jul. 23, 2013 at 10:08 AM
5 moms liked this
What about the blacks who have stated the same things? Bill Cosby comes to mind.

Quoting idunno1234:

President: " There are very few african-american men in this country who haven't had the experience of being followed when they were shopping in a department store.
That includes me.


I don't want to exaggerate this but those sets of experiences inform how the
african-american community interprets what happened one night in Florida."


O'Reilly: "That's true. Many black Americans harbor at least some resentment
for past injury. But what president Obama surely knows is that you
cannot reach a fair criminal record or design effective public policy that solves present problems by dwelling on the sins of the past."


More O'Reilly: "And it has nothing to do with slavery. It has everything to do with you Hollywood people and you derelict parents. You're the ones hurting these vulnerable children."


Notice the total disconnect.  O'Reilly himself, who has no problem pointing out the very real and inarguable problems from within certain communities, can not acknowledge what the president himself stated-  this isn't just about past grievances regarding slavery, its about the very real treatment, attitude and inherent racism that is still pervasive today.


I have been very clear about my belief in people needing to take responsibility for casting off the shackles of victimhood but how idiotic for those of us on the outside looking in to think that this is the only problem, that racism really is a thing of the past, that the issues only have to do with "past grievances".


The president talks about being followed for being black, something that is apparently a painfully common event for many in the black community and O'Reilly talks about letting go of past grievances, totally disregarding the challenges black people face just for being black.


Victims need to take responsibility for their own lives in spite of what obstacles are put in their way if they truly desire profound change.  I always post that change needs to come from within.  I absolutely agree that the black community has suffered profoundly from a lack of decent leadership.  That healing needs to come from within.  But its conveniently naive for those of us who have never had to walk in a black person's shoes to pretend that there aren't some very real obstacles in society that most of us don't have to deal with.  Even the most motivated, outstanding black individuals who have broken that shackle are made to feel less than on occasion by ignorant assholes.


There is no excuse for the "blame the victim, its all bad parenting, drugs and the entertainment industry's fault"  without acknowledging the rest- this idea that we don't have to acknowledge that a few generations away from being considered property isn't enough to normalize the way skin color affects attitude.  


O'Reilly is typical- someone who finds it easy from his comfortable perch to pontificate on the ills of a community, to pretend that blame lies totally within that community and that racism is a thing of the past.  Without the acknowledgement that racism is still alive and well, his whole speech is utterly hollow, devoid of anything but showcasing another white asshole who's never walked in those shoes, pointing fingers at everything but racism.

idunno1234
by Silver Member on Jul. 23, 2013 at 10:19 AM
1 mom liked this

I never denied healing has to come from within.  I have stated it repeatedly.  And the president also acknowledged issues within certain black communities.  What pisses me off is pretending as if racism is a thing of the past. 


Quoting Carpy:

What about the blacks who have stated the same things? Bill Cosby comes to mind.

Quoting idunno1234:

President: " There are very few african-american men in this country who haven't had the experience of being followed when they were shopping in a department store.
That includes me.


I don't want to exaggerate this but those sets of experiences inform how the
african-american community interprets what happened one night in Florida."


O'Reilly: "That's true. Many black Americans harbor at least some resentment
for past injury. But what president Obama surely knows is that you
cannot reach a fair criminal record or design effective public policy that solves present problems by dwelling on the sins of the past."


More O'Reilly: "And it has nothing to do with slavery. It has everything to do with you Hollywood people and you derelict parents. You're the ones hurting these vulnerable children."


Notice the total disconnect.  O'Reilly himself, who has no problem pointing out the very real and inarguable problems from within certain communities, can not acknowledge what the president himself stated-  this isn't just about past grievances regarding slavery, its about the very real treatment, attitude and inherent racism that is still pervasive today.


I have been very clear about my belief in people needing to take responsibility for casting off the shackles of victimhood but how idiotic for those of us on the outside looking in to think that this is the only problem, that racism really is a thing of the past, that the issues only have to do with "past grievances".


The president talks about being followed for being black, something that is apparently a painfully common event for many in the black community and O'Reilly talks about letting go of past grievances, totally disregarding the challenges black people face just for being black.


Victims need to take responsibility for their own lives in spite of what obstacles are put in their way if they truly desire profound change.  I always post that change needs to come from within.  I absolutely agree that the black community has suffered profoundly from a lack of decent leadership.  That healing needs to come from within.  But its conveniently naive for those of us who have never had to walk in a black person's shoes to pretend that there aren't some very real obstacles in society that most of us don't have to deal with.  Even the most motivated, outstanding black individuals who have broken that shackle are made to feel less than on occasion by ignorant assholes.


There is no excuse for the "blame the victim, its all bad parenting, drugs and the entertainment industry's fault"  without acknowledging the rest- this idea that we don't have to acknowledge that a few generations away from being considered property isn't enough to normalize the way skin color affects attitude.  


O'Reilly is typical- someone who finds it easy from his comfortable perch to pontificate on the ills of a community, to pretend that blame lies totally within that community and that racism is a thing of the past.  Without the acknowledgement that racism is still alive and well, his whole speech is utterly hollow, devoid of anything but showcasing another white asshole who's never walked in those shoes, pointing fingers at everything but racism.


 

romalove
by Roma on Jul. 23, 2013 at 10:23 AM
8 moms liked this

We often make incorrect correlations.  We make racial correlations with crime, for example, when we should be looking at poverty levels and economic opportunity and education.

The question is, how do we improve those things?  People with nothing to lose will do whatever they feel is in their best interests, law be damned.

furbabymum
by Gold Member on Jul. 23, 2013 at 10:29 AM
3 moms liked this

 It is victimhood really. My DH has been followed around department stores. He's Mexican. It bothers him, of course, but he doesn't play a victim because of it. He doesn't behave badly and blame it on racism. People look at him and ask when he jumped the fence. When he started his job one of his coworkers told him, "Don't get comfortable Mexican."

Blacks do everyone a disservice when they act like they are the only ones suffering racism.

Quoting idunno1234:

President: " There are very few african-american men in this country who haven't had the experience of being followed when they were shopping in a department store.
That includes me.

I don't want to exaggerate this but those sets of experiences inform how the
african-american community interprets what happened one night in Florida."

O'Reilly: "That's true. Many black Americans harbor at least some resentment
for past injury. But what president Obama surely knows is that you
cannot reach a fair criminal record or design effective public policy that solves present problems by dwelling on the sins of the past."

More O'Reilly: "And it has nothing to do with slavery. It has everything to do with you Hollywood people and you derelict parents. You're the ones hurting these vulnerable children."

Notice the total disconnect.  O'Reilly himself, who has no problem pointing out the very real and inarguable problems from within certain communities, can not acknowledge what the president himself stated-  this isn't just about past grievances regarding slavery, its about the very real treatment, attitude and inherent racism that is still pervasive today.

I have been very clear about my belief in people needing to take responsibility for casting off the shackles of victimhood but how idiotic for those of us on the outside looking in to think that this is the only problem, that racism really is a thing of the past, that the issues only have to do with "past grievances".

The president talks about being followed for being black, something that is apparently a painfully common event for many in the black community and O'Reilly talks about letting go of past grievances, totally disregarding the challenges black people face just for being black.

Victims need to take responsibility for their own lives in spite of what obstacles are put in their way if they truly desire profound change.  I always post that change needs to come from within.  I absolutely agree that the black community has suffered profoundly from a lack of decent leadership.  That healing needs to come from within.  But its conveniently naive for those of us who have never had to walk in a black person's shoes to pretend that there aren't some very real obstacles in society that most of us don't have to deal with.  Even the most motivated, outstanding black individuals who have broken that shackle are made to feel less than on occasion by ignorant assholes.

There is no excuse for the "blame the victim, its all bad parenting, drugs and the entertainment industry's fault"  without acknowledging the rest- this idea that we don't have to acknowledge that a few generations away from being considered property isn't enough to normalize the way skin color affects attitude.  

O'Reilly is typical- someone who finds it easy from his comfortable perch to pontificate on the ills of a community, to pretend that blame lies totally within that community and that racism is a thing of the past.  Without the acknowledgement that racism is still alive and well, his whole speech is utterly hollow, devoid of anything but showcasing another white asshole who's never walked in those shoes, pointing fingers at everything but racism.

 

idunno1234
by Silver Member on Jul. 23, 2013 at 10:45 AM
5 moms liked this

 Its a combination, one (victimhood) doesn't exist without the other (racism) and they are intertwined in such a way as to make it hard to see where one leaves off and the other begins.  No one talked about blacks acting as if they are the only ones suffering racism.

I am simply pointing out that O'Reilly's little speech left out one entire side of the equation, as if it was something that happened in the past, that racism is over and done with and that blacks should just stop being self-destructive idiots and get over it.

And Mexicans are certainly subjected to racism but as far as I know, they weren't slaves a few generations ago.  Stories, attitudes are handed down through the generations and the few generations that separate slavery, Jim Crow and the rest of it aren't enough to fairly say to a whole population of people that they are now on a level playing field, everything is now fine and dandy and the rest is all your fault.

So yes victimhood is very much a part of it-  there is no doubt that self destructive attitudes hold people back.  But so does racism.  Denying it doesn't make it go away- it just perpetuates it.  Acknowledging it, shedding constant light on it eventually will.

People need to help themselves because we can't depend on others to affect positive change for us but I can't imagine how maddening it must be to read stuff like O'Reilly's speech and to read/hear person after person state that racism doesn't exist anymore so get over it.


Quoting furbabymum:

 It is victimhood really. My DH has been followed around department stores. He's Mexican. It bothers him, of course, but he doesn't play a victim because of it. He doesn't behave badly and blame it on racism. People look at him and ask when he jumped the fence. When he started his job one of his coworkers told him, "Don't get comfortable Mexican."

Blacks do everyone a disservice when they act like they are the only ones suffering racism.

Quoting idunno1234:

President: " There are very few african-american men in this country who haven't had the experience of being followed when they were shopping in a department store.
That includes me.

I don't want to exaggerate this but those sets of experiences inform how the
african-american community interprets what happened one night in Florida."

O'Reilly: "That's true. Many black Americans harbor at least some resentment
for past injury. But what president Obama surely knows is that you
cannot reach a fair criminal record or design effective public policy that solves present problems by dwelling on the sins of the past."

More O'Reilly: "And it has nothing to do with slavery. It has everything to do with you Hollywood people and you derelict parents. You're the ones hurting these vulnerable children."

Notice the total disconnect.  O'Reilly himself, who has no problem pointing out the very real and inarguable problems from within certain communities, can not acknowledge what the president himself stated-  this isn't just about past grievances regarding slavery, its about the very real treatment, attitude and inherent racism that is still pervasive today.

I have been very clear about my belief in people needing to take responsibility for casting off the shackles of victimhood but how idiotic for those of us on the outside looking in to think that this is the only problem, that racism really is a thing of the past, that the issues only have to do with "past grievances".

The president talks about being followed for being black, something that is apparently a painfully common event for many in the black community and O'Reilly talks about letting go of past grievances, totally disregarding the challenges black people face just for being black.

Victims need to take responsibility for their own lives in spite of what obstacles are put in their way if they truly desire profound change.  I always post that change needs to come from within.  I absolutely agree that the black community has suffered profoundly from a lack of decent leadership.  That healing needs to come from within.  But its conveniently naive for those of us who have never had to walk in a black person's shoes to pretend that there aren't some very real obstacles in society that most of us don't have to deal with.  Even the most motivated, outstanding black individuals who have broken that shackle are made to feel less than on occasion by ignorant assholes.

There is no excuse for the "blame the victim, its all bad parenting, drugs and the entertainment industry's fault"  without acknowledging the rest- this idea that we don't have to acknowledge that a few generations away from being considered property isn't enough to normalize the way skin color affects attitude.  

O'Reilly is typical- someone who finds it easy from his comfortable perch to pontificate on the ills of a community, to pretend that blame lies totally within that community and that racism is a thing of the past.  Without the acknowledgement that racism is still alive and well, his whole speech is utterly hollow, devoid of anything but showcasing another white asshole who's never walked in those shoes, pointing fingers at everything but racism.

 


 

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