Join the Meeting Place for Moms!
Talk to other moms, share advice, and have fun!

(minimum 6 characters)

Current Events & Hot Topics Current Events & Hot Topics

America's "Embarrassing Past" and some facts that are intentionally omitted from school books. Did you know?

The first record of slaves in North America were of white slaves. Of the 102 passengers on The Mayflower, 12 were white slaves. That's right, before the European Slave Trade from Africa to America. In the early 1600's, white Europeans were captured and shipped over as slaves. This included enemies of the crown, criminals, orphans. In fact, “Street Urchins” or the street kids of London were rounded up and shipped to the colonies as slaves. The people of London were warned to beware of “Kid Nabbing”. This is the history of where the term “Kidnap” comes from.

Let's not forget that blacks were selling each other into slavery LONG before the European slave trade began (i.e. white people) AND they are still enslaving each other TODAY in Africa. Sex Slaves, Blood Diamonds, etc...

Records of early African (black) slavery in Africa and in Islamic states dates back as early as 47 BC.

The first owner of black slaves in the US was a black man, Anthony Johnson. He is responsible for introducing the white man to black slave ownership and was the person who brought the case to the courts to make it legal to “Own” black slaves indefinitely.

The majority of black slaves in the US were owned by other black families. Large numbers of free Blacks owned black slaves in numbers disproportionate to their representation in society.  According to the federal census of 1830, free blacks owned more than 10,000 slaves in Louisiana, Maryland, South Carolina, and Virginia.  The majority of black slave-owners lived in Louisiana and planted sugar cane.

By 1830 there were 3,775 black families living in the South who owned black slaves. By 1860 there were about 3,000 slaves owned by black households in the city of New Orleans alone.

The Largest population of slaves when slavery was abolished in the US was owned by a Black Slave Owner and slave breeder, William Ellison

Today, less than 2% of blacks in the US are descendants of black US slaves. It is more likely that a black person in the US is here because their family/ancestors came here to escape oppression by other blacks.

Edit: Adding some reference material...

Here are three great books I have read on the subject. You can preview a lot of information at these links and follow the "Look Inside" link.

http://www.amazon.com/White-Slavery-Colonial-America-Documented/dp/144213397X/ref=pd_sxp_f_i

http://www.amazon.com/White-Cargo-Forgotten-History-Britains/dp/0814742963/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_y

http://www.amazon.com/They-Were-White-Slaves-Enslavement/dp/0929903056/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_z


This site has some good info backed with cited reference material.

http://slaverebellion.org/

And again, I included names and dates for personal research.

by on Jul. 25, 2013 at 1:29 PM
Replies (31-40):
snookyfritz
by Platinum Member on Jul. 25, 2013 at 2:50 PM


ExecutiveChick
by Bronze Member on Jul. 25, 2013 at 2:52 PM

You can find this information (I believe) in the "Look Inside" at the link I provided and No, we are talking about slaves that had no rights and certainly not people who immigrated to America willingly.

http://www.amazon.com/White-Slavery-Colonial-America-Documented/dp/144213397X/ref=pd_sxp_f_i


Quoting viv212:

Can you explain more about how white slaves were treated worse than black? And are we talking about white immigrants or people who had rights?

Quoting ExecutiveChick:

I'm not attacking you here but you are completely wrong. White slaves were treated much worse than black slaves. Please do a little research of your own and see for yourself...

Here are three great books I have read on the subject. You can preview a lot of information at these links and follow the "Look Inside" link.

http://www.amazon.com/White-Slavery-Colonial-America-Documented/dp/144213397X/ref=pd_sxp_f_i

http://www.amazon.com/White-Cargo-Forgotten-History-Britains/dp/0814742963/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_y

http://www.amazon.com/They-Were-White-Slaves-Enslavement/dp/0929903056/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_z


This site has some good info backed with cited reference material.

http://slaverebellion.org/

And again, I included names and dates for personal research.



Quoting MsDenuninani:

It's true that there were white slaves, and it's true that there was (probably still is) black slavery in Africa.


But it's also true that the system of American slavery of African people was unique in it's cruelty and immorality. In other words, white people treated black slaves far worse than they had ever treated white ones, and white people treated black slaves far worse than black africans treated black african slaves.


Further, the American enslavement of blacks was entirely race-based.  That is actually a pretty unique thing when you look at slavery historically globally.  America is unique in having made skin color the operative characteristic in which to enslave someone, not to mention having created an entire legal and moral framework designed to keep them enslaved - pretty much entirely based on their race.


And for the record, I'm not "upset with whites" (quoting skylight555 above).  I do not know, nor have I ever, held white people today responsible for white people then. 


My general hostility towards certain white attitudes is entirely routed in the casual racism of today (often falsely justified by white people citing crime statistics), not the legally codified racism of the pre-civil rights era.






MsDenuninani
by Silver Member on Jul. 25, 2013 at 2:54 PM

No problem - I don't see it as an attack.  I do think one of us is missing some key information, and we probably disagree as to who.

What reading have you done on black slavery? Let's compare/contrast just one example -- What do the books you cite have to say about the middle passage?  How many ships passed the Atlantic carrying white slaves?  How many of them died?

I'm posing these questions as hypotheticals, although I'm a bit loathe to do so, because any time you compare human suffering, you minimize it, and I don't want to do that.   I went through some of your sources, and I'm not challenging the fact that white slaves were treated horrifically.  But the idea that black people were treated better?  That's nuts.

I know a lot about slavery, as a topic generally.  And once America classified "slave" and "free" by color of your skin, it became necessary for white people to justify their slavery by pretty much calling black people as something inferior to whites (a legacy we still battle, this notion of inferiortiy).  White slavery existed in colonial America, no doubt.  But the cruelty used to deploy it -- that didn't really take off until they started shipping the slaves in from Africa.

Like I said, I perused the sources you provided, and I have to say, they are not suitable background to have a discussion of white vs. black slavery.  Because they are not particularly interested in the experience of the black slave, or race-based slavery.  To me, reading these sources and believing you now know what you need to know about black slavery is like reading a book about New York, NY and thinking you now understand Detroit, MI.  The New York book would tell you something about American cities, but it most certainly wouldn't be the whole deal.

Quoting ExecutiveChick:

I'm not attacking you here but you are completely wrong. White slaves were treated much worse than black slaves. Please do a little research of your own and see for yourself...

Here are three great books I have read on the subject. You can preview a lot of information at these links and follow the "Look Inside" link.

http://www.amazon.com/White-Slavery-Colonial-America-Documented/dp/144213397X/ref=pd_sxp_f_i

http://www.amazon.com/White-Cargo-Forgotten-History-Britains/dp/0814742963/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_y

http://www.amazon.com/They-Were-White-Slaves-Enslavement/dp/0929903056/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_z


This site has some good info backed with cited reference material.

http://slaverebellion.org/

And again, I included names and dates for personal research.

 

Quoting MsDenuninani:

It's true that there were white slaves, and it's true that there was (probably still is) black slavery in Africa.

But it's also true that the system of American slavery of African people was unique in it's cruelty and immorality. In other words, white people treated black slaves far worse than they had ever treated white ones, and white people treated black slaves far worse than black africans treated black african slaves.

Further, the American enslavement of blacks was entirely race-based.  That is actually a pretty unique thing when you look at slavery historically globally.  America is unique in having made skin color the operative characteristic in which to enslave someone, not to mention having created an entire legal and moral framework designed to keep them enslaved - pretty much entirely based on their race.

And for the record, I'm not "upset with whites" (quoting skylight555 above).  I do not know, nor have I ever, held white people today responsible for white people then. 

My general hostility towards certain white attitudes is entirely routed in the casual racism of today (often falsely justified by white people citing crime statistics), not the legally codified racism of the pre-civil rights era.

 

 


 

MsDenuninani
by Silver Member on Jul. 25, 2013 at 3:06 PM
2 moms liked this

Fun fact:  According to "White Cargo" (the second link) - more than 300 thousand  people were shipped to America as slaves.

According to this link from pbs, one to two million africans died just on the ships to America. 

(Again, don't want to minimize the suffering of anybody, but I find the original post to be quite lacking in context.)

JazzyMommyx3
by Bronze Member on Jul. 25, 2013 at 3:09 PM
Perhaps I can add some input?
I did an in-depth report on slavery across time and countries for a thesis. I do not have access to my references right now but I can pull up my old file later.
But white slaves were considered less valuable because the were easier to get and less expensive. They were given the tasks with high death/injury rates such as being in the bowels of a ship while black slaves were throwing the cargo down to them, eventually white slaves were phased out as black slaves were more avaliable and became cheaper bc more ships were bringing them. Most of the white slaves were orphans or people with little means who's family sold then or they were captured.
I do not mention idendentured servants who were treated badly mostly but that is a differnt "catagory" for lack of a better term.
But like I said it did turn about to were black slaves WERE treated worse simply because they weren't considered more valuable anymore.


Quoting MsDenuninani:

No problem - I don't see it as an attack.  I do think one of us is missing some key information, and we probably disagree as to who.


What reading have you done on black slavery? Let's compare/contrast just one example -- What do the books you cite have to say about the middle passage?  How many ships passed the Atlantic carrying white slaves?  How many of them died?


I'm posing these questions as hypotheticals, although I'm a bit loathe to do so, because any time you compare human suffering, you minimize it, and I don't want to do that.   I went through some of your sources, and I'm not challenging the fact that white slaves were treated horrifically.  But the idea that black people were treated better?  That's nuts.


I know a lot about slavery, as a topic generally.  And once America classified "slave" and "free" by color of your skin, it became necessary for white people to justify their slavery by pretty much calling black people as something inferior to whites (a legacy we still battle, this notion of inferiortiy).  White slavery existed in colonial America, no doubt.  But the cruelty used to deploy it -- that didn't really take off until they started shipping the slaves in from Africa.


Like I said, I perused the sources you provided, and I have to say, they are not suitable background to have a discussion of white vs. black slavery.  Because they are not particularly interested in the experience of the black slave, or race-based slavery.  To me, reading these sources and believing you now know what you need to know about black slavery is like reading a book about New York, NY and thinking you now understand Detroit, MI.  The New York book would tell you something about American cities, but it most certainly wouldn't be the whole deal.


Quoting ExecutiveChick:

I'm not attacking you here but you are completely wrong. White slaves were treated much worse than black slaves. Please do a little research of your own and see for yourself...


Here are three great books I have read on the subject. You can preview a lot of information at these links and follow the "Look Inside" link.


http://www.amazon.com/White-Slavery-Colonial-America-Documented/dp/144213397X/ref=pd_sxp_f_i


http://www.amazon.com/White-Cargo-Forgotten-History-Britains/dp/0814742963/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_y


http://www.amazon.com/They-Were-White-Slaves-Enslavement/dp/0929903056/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_z




This site has some good info backed with cited reference material.


http://slaverebellion.org/


And again, I included names and dates for personal research.


 


Quoting MsDenuninani:


It's true that there were white slaves, and it's true that there was (probably still is) black slavery in Africa.


But it's also true that the system of American slavery of African people was unique in it's cruelty and immorality. In other words, white people treated black slaves far worse than they had ever treated white ones, and white people treated black slaves far worse than black africans treated black african slaves.


Further, the American enslavement of blacks was entirely race-based.  That is actually a pretty unique thing when you look at slavery historically globally.  America is unique in having made skin color the operative characteristic in which to enslave someone, not to mention having created an entire legal and moral framework designed to keep them enslaved - pretty much entirely based on their race.


And for the record, I'm not "upset with whites" (quoting skylight555 above).  I do not know, nor have I ever, held white people today responsible for white people then. 


My general hostility towards certain white attitudes is entirely routed in the casual racism of today (often falsely justified by white people citing crime statistics), not the legally codified racism of the pre-civil rights era.


 


 




 

Posted on CafeMom Mobile
FrogSalad
by Sooze on Jul. 25, 2013 at 3:14 PM
1 mom liked this


Quoting sweet-a-kins:

 

By 1830 there were 3,775 black families living in the South who owned black slaves. By 1860 there were about 3,000 slaves owned by black households in the city of New Orleans alone.

 

How many were family members purchased to escape their slave master?

Is this supposed to make slavery better? less brutal?

or is the new bullsh*t conservative narrative that blacks were the real "bad slave owners" of America?

How were blacks treated in America during slavery?

after slavery?

what were the oppurtunities like for white former slaves and black former slaves?

 

Your post reminded me of this.  Takes a minute to get to the relevant part:



Atheist Mama?  Join us!

How paramount the future is to the present when one is surrounded by children.  Charles Darwin

ExecutiveChick
by Bronze Member on Jul. 25, 2013 at 3:20 PM

It was actually my research/reading about the history of Slavery world wide that led me to the true history of slavery in The US. So I do know quite a bit about this and the books I referenced, as well as the site I referenced actually do have a lot of information on the history of black slavery in the US. This isn't as relevant to the thread as the history of black slavery in the US is far more widely known.

I hope this answers your questions.


Quoting MsDenuninani:

No problem - I don't see it as an attack.  I do think one of us is missing some key information, and we probably disagree as to who.

What reading have you done on black slavery? Let's compare/contrast just one example -- What do the books you cite have to say about the middle passage?  How many ships passed the Atlantic carrying white slaves?  How many of them died?

I'm posing these questions as hypotheticals, although I'm a bit loathe to do so, because any time you compare human suffering, you minimize it, and I don't want to do that.   I went through some of your sources, and I'm not challenging the fact that white slaves were treated horrifically.  But the idea that black people were treated better?  That's nuts.

I know a lot about slavery, as a topic generally.  And once America classified "slave" and "free" by color of your skin, it became necessary for white people to justify their slavery by pretty much calling black people as something inferior to whites (a legacy we still battle, this notion of inferiortiy).  White slavery existed in colonial America, no doubt.  But the cruelty used to deploy it -- that didn't really take off until they started shipping the slaves in from Africa.

Like I said, I perused the sources you provided, and I have to say, they are not suitable background to have a discussion of white vs. black slavery.  Because they are not particularly interested in the experience of the black slave, or race-based slavery.  To me, reading these sources and believing you now know what you need to know about black slavery is like reading a book about New York, NY and thinking you now understand Detroit, MI.  The New York book would tell you something about American cities, but it most certainly wouldn't be the whole deal.

Quoting ExecutiveChick:

I'm not attacking you here but you are completely wrong. White slaves were treated much worse than black slaves. Please do a little research of your own and see for yourself...

Here are three great books I have read on the subject. You can preview a lot of information at these links and follow the "Look Inside" link.

http://www.amazon.com/White-Slavery-Colonial-America-Documented/dp/144213397X/ref=pd_sxp_f_i

http://www.amazon.com/White-Cargo-Forgotten-History-Britains/dp/0814742963/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_y

http://www.amazon.com/They-Were-White-Slaves-Enslavement/dp/0929903056/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_z


This site has some good info backed with cited reference material.

http://slaverebellion.org/

And again, I included names and dates for personal research.


Quoting MsDenuninani:

It's true that there were white slaves, and it's true that there was (probably still is) black slavery in Africa.

But it's also true that the system of American slavery of African people was unique in it's cruelty and immorality. In other words, white people treated black slaves far worse than they had ever treated white ones, and white people treated black slaves far worse than black africans treated black african slaves.

Further, the American enslavement of blacks was entirely race-based.  That is actually a pretty unique thing when you look at slavery historically globally.  America is unique in having made skin color the operative characteristic in which to enslave someone, not to mention having created an entire legal and moral framework designed to keep them enslaved - pretty much entirely based on their race.

And for the record, I'm not "upset with whites" (quoting skylight555 above).  I do not know, nor have I ever, held white people today responsible for white people then. 

My general hostility towards certain white attitudes is entirely routed in the casual racism of today (often falsely justified by white people citing crime statistics), not the legally codified racism of the pre-civil rights era.







sweet-a-kins
by Emerald Member on Jul. 25, 2013 at 3:22 PM

 That was HILARIOUS!!! lol from beginning to end - LOL at the freaking MEDICINE

hey I posted this in our group but I made something for ya

Quoting FrogSalad:


Quoting sweet-a-kins:

 

By 1830 there were 3,775 black families living in the South who owned black slaves. By 1860 there were about 3,000 slaves owned by black households in the city of New Orleans alone.

 

How many were family members purchased to escape their slave master?

Is this supposed to make slavery better? less brutal?

or is the new bullsh*t conservative narrative that blacks were the real "bad slave owners" of America?

How were blacks treated in America during slavery?

after slavery?

what were the oppurtunities like for white former slaves and black former slaves?

 

Your post reminded me of this.  Takes a minute to get to the relevant part:


 

SuperChicken
by on Jul. 25, 2013 at 3:26 PM
1 mom liked this

I'm not interested enought to read books on it or research.  If you don't have actual links to prove your points, just say so.    It's usually considered good form to be able to prove what you say, but not everyone does.    I simply don't believe everything you posted is 100% fact. Logically, they don't make sense, even though they hold a grain of truth.   For example, there simply were not enough black people and those black people did not have enough political or financial power to say that during all  the years of slavery in America that most slaves were owned by free blacks.  


Quoting ExecutiveChick:

Yes,

Here are three great books I have read on the subject. You can preview a lot of information at these links and follow the "Look Inside" link.

http://www.amazon.com/White-Slavery-Colonial-America-Documented/dp/144213397X/ref=pd_sxp_f_i

http://www.amazon.com/White-Cargo-Forgotten-History-Britains/dp/0814742963/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_y

http://www.amazon.com/They-Were-White-Slaves-Enslavement/dp/0929903056/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_z

 

This site has some good info backed with cited reference material.

http://slaverebellion.org/

And again, I included names and dates for personal research.

 

Quoting SuperChicken:

Do you have links confirming the claims made in your op?    While there seems to be a grain of truth, i.e. there were free blacks that owned slaves, but I find it hard to believe they owned the majority of slaves in the U.S..    I also find it hard to believe that only 2% of today's black population would be able to trace any slavery in their ancestry.    

 

 


 

ExecutiveChick
by Bronze Member on Jul. 25, 2013 at 3:28 PM

Thank you for sharing. I would love to read your Thesis if it is published anywhere. I would still love to if not. Also, any reference material would be greatly appreciated if you have information off the top of your head.

I had a hard time finding good reference material on the African Slave Trade with the Islamic Nations. i.e. the BC and early AD African slave trade. This erra of slavery isn't widely published from my findings.


Quoting JazzyMommyx3:

Perhaps I can add some input?
I did an in-depth report on slavery across time and countries for a thesis. I do not have access to my references right now but I can pull up my old file later.
But white slaves were considered less valuable because the were easier to get and less expensive. They were given the tasks with high death/injury rates such as being in the bowels of a ship while black slaves were throwing the cargo down to them, eventually white slaves were phased out as black slaves were more avaliable and became cheaper bc more ships were bringing them. Most of the white slaves were orphans or people with little means who's family sold then or they were captured.
I do not mention idendentured servants who were treated badly mostly but that is a differnt "catagory" for lack of a better term.
But like I said it did turn about to were black slaves WERE treated worse simply because they weren't considered more valuable anymore.


Quoting MsDenuninani:

No problem - I don't see it as an attack.  I do think one of us is missing some key information, and we probably disagree as to who.


What reading have you done on black slavery? Let's compare/contrast just one example -- What do the books you cite have to say about the middle passage?  How many ships passed the Atlantic carrying white slaves?  How many of them died?


I'm posing these questions as hypotheticals, although I'm a bit loathe to do so, because any time you compare human suffering, you minimize it, and I don't want to do that.   I went through some of your sources, and I'm not challenging the fact that white slaves were treated horrifically.  But the idea that black people were treated better?  That's nuts.


I know a lot about slavery, as a topic generally.  And once America classified "slave" and "free" by color of your skin, it became necessary for white people to justify their slavery by pretty much calling black people as something inferior to whites (a legacy we still battle, this notion of inferiortiy).  White slavery existed in colonial America, no doubt.  But the cruelty used to deploy it -- that didn't really take off until they started shipping the slaves in from Africa.


Like I said, I perused the sources you provided, and I have to say, they are not suitable background to have a discussion of white vs. black slavery.  Because they are not particularly interested in the experience of the black slave, or race-based slavery.  To me, reading these sources and believing you now know what you need to know about black slavery is like reading a book about New York, NY and thinking you now understand Detroit, MI.  The New York book would tell you something about American cities, but it most certainly wouldn't be the whole deal.


Quoting ExecutiveChick:

I'm not attacking you here but you are completely wrong. White slaves were treated much worse than black slaves. Please do a little research of your own and see for yourself...


Here are three great books I have read on the subject. You can preview a lot of information at these links and follow the "Look Inside" link.


http://www.amazon.com/White-Slavery-Colonial-America-Documented/dp/144213397X/ref=pd_sxp_f_i


http://www.amazon.com/White-Cargo-Forgotten-History-Britains/dp/0814742963/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_y


http://www.amazon.com/They-Were-White-Slaves-Enslavement/dp/0929903056/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_z




This site has some good info backed with cited reference material.


http://slaverebellion.org/


And again, I included names and dates for personal research.




Quoting MsDenuninani:


It's true that there were white slaves, and it's true that there was (probably still is) black slavery in Africa.


But it's also true that the system of American slavery of African people was unique in it's cruelty and immorality. In other words, white people treated black slaves far worse than they had ever treated white ones, and white people treated black slaves far worse than black africans treated black african slaves.


Further, the American enslavement of blacks was entirely race-based.  That is actually a pretty unique thing when you look at slavery historically globally.  America is unique in having made skin color the operative characteristic in which to enslave someone, not to mention having created an entire legal and moral framework designed to keep them enslaved - pretty much entirely based on their race.


And for the record, I'm not "upset with whites" (quoting skylight555 above).  I do not know, nor have I ever, held white people today responsible for white people then. 


My general hostility towards certain white attitudes is entirely routed in the casual racism of today (often falsely justified by white people citing crime statistics), not the legally codified racism of the pre-civil rights era.











Add your quick reply below:
You must be a member to reply to this post.
Join the Meeting Place for Moms!
Talk to other moms, share advice, and have fun!

(minimum 6 characters)

close Join now to connect to
other members!
Connect with Facebook or Sign Up Using Email

Already Joined? LOG IN