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If the anti-choice* position is so strong why do anti-choicers* lie about the facts of abortion?

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I Went to a Crisis Pregnancy Center and What I Saw Will Shock You

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*I used the term anti-choice because I am specifically referencing people who want to outlaw abortion/close abortion clinics.  Unfortunately too many people erroneously think they are pro-life when they are actually pro-choice so I cannot use the term pro-life any longer.  People who do NOT want abortion to become illegal but who would not choose abortion for themselves MISTAKENLY call themselves pro-life.  Here are the correct definitions:

pro-life:  someone who wants to outlaw abortion

pro-choice:  someone who wants abortion to remain legal. It doesn't mean they would ever have an abortion.  Even if a person would NEVER have an abortion they are still PRO-CHOICE if they do NOT want abortion outlawed.


by on Jul. 25, 2013 at 5:28 PM
Replies (41-50):
NWP
by guerrilla girl on Jul. 26, 2013 at 12:25 PM
1 mom liked this
I don't think you understand the definitions because of the emotions behind them. Many folks don't.

Pro-choice actually defines anyone who wants to keep the government out of our reproductive choices regardless of their personal feelings about abortion. This IS the definition of pro-choice.

Pro-life defines those who wish to use the government to create and enforce laws that severely restrict or make abortion illegal. It is a politicized label attached to groups that protest and legally lobby for this change.

People who are personally against abortion but do not support putting the government in
Charge of these decisions through the creation of laws severely restricting or eliminating legal abortion often misidentifying as pro-life when they are actually pro-choice.

This is why the numbers do not match between those who self identify as pro-life and the number of people who wish to make abortion illegal.

The terms pro-life and pro-choice are strictly political.


Quoting SewingMamaLele:

What I don't get... is that you're trying to convince people that they really ARE pro-choice, in a topic that is calling those same people "anti-choice".   So, which is it?  

If you really feel everyone is pro-choice... how do you differentiate those who would like to outlaw abortion to some degree?   "Pro-choice, anti-abortion"?    Then why even use the pro-choice term, why not just anti-abortion,  and abortion rights advocate (since we all agree on the other "pro-choice" issues, and abortion is the issue of contention?)

Quoting EireLass:

This is what Pro-choice is all about. I think you are unaware of that. I think you believe pro-choice is abortion. There is a list as long as your arm about what pro-choice is, abortion being only 1 of those things.

Quoting snookyfritz:

As a conversation follower you should really understand what is being talked about before you respond

Quoting EireLass:

It has everything to do with it. Your choice to not have an abortion, may not be the same choice your husband has. Back then, his choice ruled. As a woman, you should really learn the recent history of women.

Quoting snookyfritz:

Again, one has absolutely nothing to do with the other.  

Quoting lady-J-Rock:

Not really. My grandmother and other women in my family said before Roe vs Wade. Your Husband or father made your medical decisions for you. That's why I fear the day Roe vs. Wade gets overturned. Not that my husband or father would go against my wishes.

Quoting snookyfritz:

What has one to do with the other? You took that ball and ran

Quoting EireLass:

Really? Your husband chooses your doctors? Your husband is given all health information on you prior to yourself? He picks and chooses what the doctor should tell you? You don't get to pick what procedures you may or may not want for yourself? Wow...it's an old fashioned way to live, but have at it!!

Quoting snookyfritz:

I can assure that I am not.  I was up until a year or so ago, but I have definitely jumped to the other side whole-heartedly

Quoting EireLass:

Everyone is Pro-choice. People are afraid to admit it, because they're uneducated as to what it really means.






SewingMamaLele
by Leanne on Jul. 26, 2013 at 12:50 PM

Why are people so interested in people they don't know who steal?  I mean, if they don't like stealing, then don't steal... but don't take away another person's right to steal.   Are they prepared to financially support that person so that they no longer need to steal, or do they just want to tell other people how to live?

Quoting EireLass:

I don't call anyone 'anti-choice'. That's a rediculous term. I'm pretty sure nobody is 'anti-choice'. Doesn't even make sense. I'm fine with people not liking abortion, fine, don't have one. But why are they so interested in other women's lives that they don't know, won't know? Do they care enough to financially support all needs through the pregnancy, and the following 18 years, or do they just want to tell other people how to live? Abortion has always been legal. Roe v. Wade was about A WOMAN'S desire to have an abortion, by choice, not need.

Quoting SewingMamaLele:

What I don't get... is that you're trying to convince people that they really ARE pro-choice, in a topic that is calling those same people "anti-choice".   So, which is it?  

If you really feel everyone is pro-choice... how do you differentiate those who would like to outlaw abortion to some degree?   "Pro-choice, anti-abortion"?    Then why even use the pro-choice term, why not just anti-abortion,  and abortion rights advocate (since we all agree on the other "pro-choice" issues, and abortion is the issue of contention?)

Quoting EireLass:

This is what Pro-choice is all about. I think you are unaware of that. I think you believe pro-choice is abortion. There is a list as long as your arm about what pro-choice is, abortion being only 1 of those things.







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SewingMamaLele
by Leanne on Jul. 26, 2013 at 12:52 PM

No, I fully understand the definitions.    So, why do so many people feel the need to come up with new terms, or try to convince a person they really side with them on the issue?   

Quoting NWP:

I don't think you understand the definitions because of the emotions behind them. Many folks don't.

Pro-choice actually defines anyone who wants to keep the government out of our reproductive choices regardless of their personal feelings about abortion. This IS the definition of pro-choice.

Pro-life defines those who wish to use the government to create and enforce laws that severely restrict or make abortion illegal. It is a politicized label attached to groups that protest and legally lobby for this change.

People who are personally against abortion but do not support putting the government in
Charge of these decisions through the creation of laws severely restricting or eliminating legal abortion often misidentifying as pro-life when they are actually pro-choice.

This is why the numbers do not match between those who self identify as pro-life and the number of people who wish to make abortion illegal.

The terms pro-life and pro-choice are strictly political.


Quoting SewingMamaLele:

What I don't get... is that you're trying to convince people that they really ARE pro-choice, in a topic that is calling those same people "anti-choice".   So, which is it?  

If you really feel everyone is pro-choice... how do you differentiate those who would like to outlaw abortion to some degree?   "Pro-choice, anti-abortion"?    Then why even use the pro-choice term, why not just anti-abortion,  and abortion rights advocate (since we all agree on the other "pro-choice" issues, and abortion is the issue of contention?)

Quoting EireLass:

This is what Pro-choice is all about. I think you are unaware of that. I think you believe pro-choice is abortion. There is a list as long as your arm about what pro-choice is, abortion being only 1 of those things.

Quoting snookyfritz:

As a conversation follower you should really understand what is being talked about before you respond

Quoting EireLass:

It has everything to do with it. Your choice to not have an abortion, may not be the same choice your husband has. Back then, his choice ruled. As a woman, you should really learn the recent history of women.

Quoting snookyfritz:

Again, one has absolutely nothing to do with the other.  

Quoting lady-J-Rock:

Not really. My grandmother and other women in my family said before Roe vs Wade. Your Husband or father made your medical decisions for you. That's why I fear the day Roe vs. Wade gets overturned. Not that my husband or father would go against my wishes.

Quoting snookyfritz:

What has one to do with the other? You took that ball and ran

Quoting EireLass:

Really? Your husband chooses your doctors? Your husband is given all health information on you prior to yourself? He picks and chooses what the doctor should tell you? You don't get to pick what procedures you may or may not want for yourself? Wow...it's an old fashioned way to live, but have at it!!

Quoting snookyfritz:

I can assure that I am not.  I was up until a year or so ago, but I have definitely jumped to the other side whole-heartedly

Quoting EireLass:

Everyone is Pro-choice. People are afraid to admit it, because they're uneducated as to what it really means.







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Friday
by HRH of MJ on Jul. 26, 2013 at 1:09 PM
1 mom liked this

I'm not shocked at all. I have seen plenty of pro-lifers who believe lying is perfectly justified if it 'save one precious lil baby'.

 


Thank God......it's Friday!!!

NWP
by guerrilla girl on Jul. 26, 2013 at 2:40 PM

I don't feel the need to come up with any new terms and my first response fully explained your other question .

Quoting SewingMamaLele:

No, I fully understand the definitions.    So, why do so many people feel the need to come up with new terms, or try to convince a person they really side with them on the issue?   

Quoting NWP:

I don't think you understand the definitions because of the emotions behind them. Many folks don't.

Pro-choice actually defines anyone who wants to keep the government out of our reproductive choices regardless of their personal feelings about abortion. This IS the definition of pro-choice.

Pro-life defines those who wish to use the government to create and enforce laws that severely restrict or make abortion illegal. It is a politicized label attached to groups that protest and legally lobby for this change.

People who are personally against abortion but do not support putting the government in
Charge of these decisions through the creation of laws severely restricting or eliminating legal abortion often misidentifying as pro-life when they are actually pro-choice.

This is why the numbers do not match between those who self identify as pro-life and the number of people who wish to make abortion illegal.

The terms pro-life and pro-choice are strictly political.


Quoting SewingMamaLele:

What I don't get... is that you're trying to convince people that they really ARE pro-choice, in a topic that is calling those same people "anti-choice".   So, which is it?  

If you really feel everyone is pro-choice... how do you differentiate those who would like to outlaw abortion to some degree?   "Pro-choice, anti-abortion"?    Then why even use the pro-choice term, why not just anti-abortion,  and abortion rights advocate (since we all agree on the other "pro-choice" issues, and abortion is the issue of contention?)

Quoting EireLass:

This is what Pro-choice is all about. I think you are unaware of that. I think you believe pro-choice is abortion. There is a list as long as your arm about what pro-choice is, abortion being only 1 of those things.

Quoting snookyfritz:

As a conversation follower you should really understand what is being talked about before you respond

Quoting EireLass:

It has everything to do with it. Your choice to not have an abortion, may not be the same choice your husband has. Back then, his choice ruled. As a woman, you should really learn the recent history of women.

Quoting snookyfritz:

Again, one has absolutely nothing to do with the other.  

Quoting lady-J-Rock:

Not really. My grandmother and other women in my family said before Roe vs Wade. Your Husband or father made your medical decisions for you. That's why I fear the day Roe vs. Wade gets overturned. Not that my husband or father would go against my wishes.

Quoting snookyfritz:

What has one to do with the other? You took that ball and ran

Quoting EireLass:

Really? Your husband chooses your doctors? Your husband is given all health information on you prior to yourself? He picks and chooses what the doctor should tell you? You don't get to pick what procedures you may or may not want for yourself? Wow...it's an old fashioned way to live, but have at it!!

Quoting snookyfritz:

I can assure that I am not.  I was up until a year or so ago, but I have definitely jumped to the other side whole-heartedly

Quoting EireLass:

Everyone is Pro-choice. People are afraid to admit it, because they're uneducated as to what it really means.








Not Without Panties

supercarp
by Silver Member on Jul. 26, 2013 at 2:41 PM

I have always wondered about this, too.

NWP
by guerrilla girl on Jul. 26, 2013 at 3:12 PM
1 mom liked this

That is a false analogy. 

But since you are on the very different topic of financially supporting criminals, do you believe in the death penalty? Or just supporting convicted murderers for life? Just wondering.  

Quoting SewingMamaLele:

Why are people so interested in people they don't know who steal?  I mean, if they don't like stealing, then don't steal... but don't take away another person's right to steal.   Are they prepared to financially support that person so that they no longer need to steal, or do they just want to tell other people how to live?

Quoting EireLass:

I don't call anyone 'anti-choice'. That's a rediculous term. I'm pretty sure nobody is 'anti-choice'. Doesn't even make sense. I'm fine with people not liking abortion, fine, don't have one. But why are they so interested in other women's lives that they don't know, won't know? Do they care enough to financially support all needs through the pregnancy, and the following 18 years, or do they just want to tell other people how to live? Abortion has always been legal. Roe v. Wade was about A WOMAN'S desire to have an abortion, by choice, not need.

Quoting SewingMamaLele:

What I don't get... is that you're trying to convince people that they really ARE pro-choice, in a topic that is calling those same people "anti-choice".   So, which is it?  

If you really feel everyone is pro-choice... how do you differentiate those who would like to outlaw abortion to some degree?   "Pro-choice, anti-abortion"?    Then why even use the pro-choice term, why not just anti-abortion,  and abortion rights advocate (since we all agree on the other "pro-choice" issues, and abortion is the issue of contention?)

Quoting EireLass:

This is what Pro-choice is all about. I think you are unaware of that. I think you believe pro-choice is abortion. There is a list as long as your arm about what pro-choice is, abortion being only 1 of those things.








Not Without Panties

snookyfritz
by Platinum Member on Jul. 26, 2013 at 3:22 PM

The Natural Law of moral theology, of course.  As this is a moral issue


Quoting EireLass:

Who's perception of Natural Law do you believe in? There are about 6 variants.

Quoting snookyfritz:

It is referring to the right to have an abortion. Nothing to do with historical male dominance.  It has to do with Natural Law (not laws of nature)

Quoting EireLass:

Read your highlighted sentence.

Quoting snookyfritz:

If you want to respond in a discussion you should know the context of the conversation.  The person in question stated that if abortion rights were removed that husbands and dad's would suddenly be in charge of a woman's health again.  And that is not true. 

Quoting EireLass:

If you are going to discuss a subject, don't you think you should know about it? There's no presumption anywhere. Husbands had the rights and duties for their wives medical care. All was really their decision. Doctors always came to the husband with any information, not the wife-patient. You're health care was his decision. The information you had about your health was his decision. If you chose to use or not use birth control, it wasn't your choice.

Quoting snookyfritz:

It's a presumption that those rights ever belonged to anyone in the first place.No, the birth control issue is pretty much a Catholic one.  And we don't have the support for that. And you still haven't shown where it would leave your husband and father making your decisions

Quoting lady-J-Rock:

Yes it is. It's giving up your reproductive rights. It's a slippery slope. Next they'll go after birth control.
Quoting snookyfritz:

Again, one has absolutely nothing to do with the other.  

Quoting lady-J-Rock:

Not really. My grandmother and other women in my family said before Roe vs Wade. Your Husband or father made your medical decisions for you. That's why I fear the day Roe vs. Wade gets overturned. Not that my husband or father would go against my wishes.
Quoting snookyfritz:

What has one to do with the other? You took that ball and ran

Quoting EireLass:
Really? Your husband chooses your doctors? Your husband is given all health information on you prior to yourself? He picks and chooses what the doctor should tell you? You don't get to pick what procedures you may or may not want for yourself? Wow...it's an old fashioned way to live, but have at it!!
Quoting snookyfritz:

I can assure that I am not.  I was up until a year or so ago, but I have definitely jumped to the other side whole-heartedly

Quoting EireLass:

Everyone is Pro-choice. People are afraid to admit it, because they're uneducated as to what it really means.









Veni.Vidi.Vici.
by on Jul. 26, 2013 at 4:01 PM

I'm not shocked at all. I'm not even shoced the know that people believe it.

SewingMamaLele
by Leanne on Jul. 26, 2013 at 4:21 PM

My question was, why do people try to include those who would like abortion outlawed (to some degree) as "pro-choice"?   Your defintions pretty much fit what I believe the postitions to be.   So I guess you just aren't the correct person to answer my question?  

Quoting NWP:

I don't feel the need to come up with any new terms and my first response fully explained your other question .

Quoting SewingMamaLele:

No, I fully understand the definitions.    So, why do so many people feel the need to come up with new terms, or try to convince a person they really side with them on the issue?   

Quoting NWP:

I don't think you understand the definitions because of the emotions behind them. Many folks don't.

Pro-choice actually defines anyone who wants to keep the government out of our reproductive choices regardless of their personal feelings about abortion. This IS the definition of pro-choice.

Pro-life defines those who wish to use the government to create and enforce laws that severely restrict or make abortion illegal. It is a politicized label attached to groups that protest and legally lobby for this change.

People who are personally against abortion but do not support putting the government in
Charge of these decisions through the creation of laws severely restricting or eliminating legal abortion often misidentifying as pro-life when they are actually pro-choice.

This is why the numbers do not match between those who self identify as pro-life and the number of people who wish to make abortion illegal.

The terms pro-life and pro-choice are strictly political.


Quoting SewingMamaLele:

What I don't get... is that you're trying to convince people that they really ARE pro-choice, in a topic that is calling those same people "anti-choice".   So, which is it?  

If you really feel everyone is pro-choice... how do you differentiate those who would like to outlaw abortion to some degree?   "Pro-choice, anti-abortion"?    Then why even use the pro-choice term, why not just anti-abortion,  and abortion rights advocate (since we all agree on the other "pro-choice" issues, and abortion is the issue of contention?)

Quoting EireLass:

This is what Pro-choice is all about. I think you are unaware of that. I think you believe pro-choice is abortion. There is a list as long as your arm about what pro-choice is, abortion being only 1 of those things.

Quoting snookyfritz:

As a conversation follower you should really understand what is being talked about before you respond

Quoting EireLass:

It has everything to do with it. Your choice to not have an abortion, may not be the same choice your husband has. Back then, his choice ruled. As a woman, you should really learn the recent history of women.

Quoting snookyfritz:

Again, one has absolutely nothing to do with the other.  

Quoting lady-J-Rock:

Not really. My grandmother and other women in my family said before Roe vs Wade. Your Husband or father made your medical decisions for you. That's why I fear the day Roe vs. Wade gets overturned. Not that my husband or father would go against my wishes.

Quoting snookyfritz:

What has one to do with the other? You took that ball and ran

Quoting EireLass:

Really? Your husband chooses your doctors? Your husband is given all health information on you prior to yourself? He picks and chooses what the doctor should tell you? You don't get to pick what procedures you may or may not want for yourself? Wow...it's an old fashioned way to live, but have at it!!

Quoting snookyfritz:

I can assure that I am not.  I was up until a year or so ago, but I have definitely jumped to the other side whole-heartedly

Quoting EireLass:

Everyone is Pro-choice. People are afraid to admit it, because they're uneducated as to what it really means.









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