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When Criminals Decide To Bet Their Lives And Lose, They Do Not Become The Victim

Posted by on Aug. 4, 2013 at 6:57 PM
  • 61 Replies
3 moms liked this

There are many stories in my area of criminals being killed every year and every year I hear people turning these criminals into victims. The fact is that these criminals made a choice and decided on their own that they were willing to risk their lives for the expected outcome of committing their crime. They decided what value they were willing to put on their lives. They gamble and in many cases they lose.

Florida has Self Defense and Stand Your Ground Laws. When Travon Martin decided to commit felony assault and put his hands on George Zimmerman, he CHOSE at that very moment be it consciously or not, that he was willing to die to be a tough guy. This was the value TM decided his life was worth risking. He isn't so tough now is he. That twitter or facebook post about being tough never happened.

In the Houston area, we have had many of these stories. We have Castle Laws (you can protest your or your neighbors homes, vehicles) and Self Defense Laws.

JA man named Joe Horn shot a couple guys robbing his neighbors house. Those criminals made a choice and decided to value their lives at the price of a used flat screen TV. They gambled and lost.

One criminal in Houston was shot and killed when he decided to rob a taco truck of it's tip jar. He Chose to risk his life and valued it at around $26. He chose to die for $26

I have a friend who was moving and the home he was moving from kept getting broken into. He was there one evening when some teenagers broke in again. He ended up shooting 3 of the four killing 2 and seriously injuring 1. He was not charged but the families decided to sue him for the deaths and injuries. Not only did these parents lose their case, my friend counter sued them and won. The parents were ordered to pay my friends legal fees, reimburse him for the cost of the ammunition he had to use and carpet cleaning to get their children's blood out. Those teens decided they were willing to die for the contents of a sealed box marked “Living Room”

My point is this. In states where there are laws giving it's citizens the right to protect themselves or their property, when a CRIMINAL chooses to risk their lives, they are placing a value on their life and when someone like GZ or my friend obliges them and takes their life, the criminal is not the victim, the victim is still the person who is being assaulted or stolen from even if they exercise their rights and take that criminals life.

by on Aug. 4, 2013 at 6:57 PM
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Replies (1-10):
Luvnlogic
by Silver Member on Aug. 4, 2013 at 7:04 PM
12 moms liked this
Unless you have proof that TM made first physical contact, you should prob not present it as fact. We have GZ's testimony, that's all.
Mommabearbergh
by on Aug. 4, 2013 at 7:05 PM
4 moms liked this
Wth is up with your bloodlust with trayvon Martin like I could see before the case, during the case and some short time after but damn lady every topic you do has tm in it even things that aren't quite related. Like did he piss in your cereal or something. Does gz give you the tingly feelings in your lady parts or something. There is so much going on in the world.
katy_kay08
by on Aug. 4, 2013 at 7:05 PM
6 moms liked this

Once again, another person that seems to believe Martin didn't have the same right to stand his ground as Zimmerman.  The jurors were rather clear, the law as written didn't leave them room to find Zimmerman guilty as charged but they certainly didn't think he was innocent.    

katy_kay08
by on Aug. 4, 2013 at 7:08 PM

Florida lawmakers agree to hearings on 'Stand Your Ground' law


By Tom Brown

MIAMI (Reuters) - Florida lawmakers will hold hearings this fall on the state's "Stand Your Ground" self-defense law, which has become a lightning rod for criticism following the acquittal of George Zimmerman in the shooting death of unarmed black teenager Trayvon Martin.

The announcement on Friday by Will Weatherford, the speaker of Florida's House of Representatives, marked the biggest concession yet by the state's Republican leaders to protesters' demands for a top-to-bottom review of the law, which allows people in fear of serious injury to use deadly force to defend themselves rather than retreat.

Since Zimmerman's acquittal on July 13, Martin's grieving parents, backed by African-American civic leaders, celebrities, students and political figures, including President Barack Obama and Attorney General Eric Holder, have all said the Stand Your Ground law needs to be re-examined.

Weatherford, in an opinion column published in the Tampa Tribune, said he had asked Representative Matt Gaetz, a fellow Republican who chairs the House Criminal Justice Subcommittee, to lead the hearings. Weatherford did not set a date for the hearings or say how long they would last.

"Across Florida, representatives are receiving calls, letters, visits and emails from constituents with diverse opinions on 'Stand Your Ground,'" Weatherford said. "Passions are high, but every person has the right to express their views on this matter of great importance."

"It's a critical step," said Phillip Agnew, who heads a group of young demonstrators calling themselves the Dream Defenders who have staged a nearly month-long sit-in outside Governor Rick Scott's office in a bid to change the law. "We're excited about having an open debate," he told Reuters.

Advocates of the law, the first of its kind in the country and now copied in more than 20 other states, say violent crime has fallen since it was enacted.

But critics see the self-defense law as emblematic of racial bias and unequal justice in America, since some studies have shown that defense claims made under the law are far more likely to be successful when the victim is black.

Two of the six jurors in the Zimmerman case have said the Stand Your Ground law left them with no option but to acquit him.

"Our evaluation of its (the law's) effectiveness should be guided by objective information, not by political expediency," Weatherford wrote.

"Does the law keep the innocent safer? Is it being applied fairly? Are there ways we can make this law clearer and more understandable?" he asked.

Most U.S. voters support the "Stand Your Ground" laws, although the question of whether to retreat or use deadly force in self defense divides Americans along gender, racial and political lines, a national Quinnipiac University poll found on Friday.

The poll found that a strong majority of white voters and men support the laws, while black voters generally oppose them and women are almost evenly divided.

(Reporting by Tom Brown; additional reporting by Bill Cotterell editing by Jackie Frank)

Luvnlogic
by Silver Member on Aug. 4, 2013 at 7:09 PM
2 moms liked this
It's quite redonkalous at this point. First, all the GZers had a tizzy over TM's death getting too much attention. Yet they're the ones who can't leave it the eff alone. Their boy is free, the big, bad thug is dead...move on, please!!!

Quoting katy_kay08:

Once again, another person that seems to believe Martin didn't have the same right to stand his ground as Zimmerman.  The jurors were rather clear, the law as written didn't leave them room to find Zimmerman guilty as charged but they certainly didn't think he was innocent.    

katy_kay08
by on Aug. 4, 2013 at 7:11 PM
1 mom liked this

they need to keep it in the news to raise funds for Zimmerman.  He will be sued and ultimately will need their help paying off the judgement against him when he loses.  

Quoting Mommabearbergh:

Wth is up with your bloodlust with trayvon Martin like I could see before the case, during the case and some short time after but damn lady every topic you do has tm in it even things that aren't quite related. Like did he piss in your cereal or something. Does gz give you the tingly feelings in your lady parts or something. There is so much going on in the world.


ExecutiveChick
by Bronze Member on Aug. 4, 2013 at 7:19 PM
1 mom liked this

I'm not going to argue GZ/TM and the merits of the case. All the evidence led the jurors to the right verdict and the law was justly upheld. I don't give a rats ass about GZ. What I do care about is maintaining the right to defend ones self, property or family with deadly force if need be and not making criminals into victims when they are on the losing side of the bet they make with their life.


Mommabearbergh
by on Aug. 4, 2013 at 7:24 PM
Do you think the law was upheld in the OJ Simpson case?

Quoting ExecutiveChick:

I'm not going to argue GZ/TM and the merits of the case. All the evidence led the jurors to the right verdict and the law was justly upheld. I don't give a rats ass about GZ. What I do care about is maintaining the right to defend ones self, property or family with deadly force if need be and not making criminals into victims when they are on the losing side of the bet they make with their life.


ExecutiveChick
by Bronze Member on Aug. 4, 2013 at 7:34 PM
1 mom liked this

I wasn't aware that the OJ case had a self defense aspect to it. Not really sure what that has to do with the subject matter of this post or the 4 cases I mentioned in it.


Quoting Mommabearbergh:

Do you think the law was upheld in the OJ Simpson case?

Quoting ExecutiveChick:

I'm not going to argue GZ/TM and the merits of the case. All the evidence led the jurors to the right verdict and the law was justly upheld. I don't give a rats ass about GZ. What I do care about is maintaining the right to defend ones self, property or family with deadly force if need be and not making criminals into victims when they are on the losing side of the bet they make with their life.




Luvnlogic
by Silver Member on Aug. 4, 2013 at 7:35 PM
2 moms liked this
Then don't use it to make this particular argument. The other cases, there seems to be an obvious crime in progress (in someone's home, in possession of stolen property/money, etc) whereas what you stated about TM was never proven.

Quoting ExecutiveChick:

I'm not going to argue GZ/TM and the merits of the case. All the evidence led the jurors to the right verdict and the law was justly upheld. I don't give a rats ass about GZ. What I do care about is maintaining the right to defend ones self, property or family with deadly force if need be and not making criminals into victims when they are on the losing side of the bet they make with their life.


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