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Right-wing push poll accidentally finds Obamacare popular

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Right-wing push poll accidentally finds Obamacare popular

Heritage's new poll oversamples Republicans and asks misleading questions -- but finds most want to keep Obamacare

(Credit: AP/Charles Dharapak)

Heritage Action, the activist wing of the conservative Heritage Foundation, is out with a new poll today that’s getting some favorable coverage in the mainstream political press. According to Heritage, the survey shows that the GOP shouldn’t fear a government shutdown over Obamacare defunding. But there’s a catch.

The background here is that a group of conservative senators, including Ted Cruz, Mike Lee and Marco Rubio, are trying to push Republican leaders to demand that Congress defund Obamacare in upcoming appropriations battles , even if it means forcing the government to shut down. Heritage supports the effort, so it took the poll to try to steel the spines of Republican leaders.

“Americans — including 57 percent of independents in ten critical congressional districts — favor defunding Obamacare,” said Michael Needham, the CEO of Heritage Action. “House Republicans should be much more concerned with the fallout of failing to defund Obamacare than with the imaginary fallout of doing so.”

What Needham fails to mention, however, is that even this push poll that dramatically oversamples Republicans (more on that in a minute) finds respondents are more likely to say that the Affordable Care Act should be kept than scrapped — and that a plurality would blame Republicans if the government were to shut down.

Only 44.5 percent “oppose the health care law and think it should be repealed,” while 52 percent either support the law as is or have some concerns, but say they think implementation should move forward. And asked whom they would blame if “there was an impasse between president Obama and Congress on whether to continue to fund the health care law, and that impasse resulted in a partial government shutdown,” the top response (28 percent) was Republicans in Congress. The next option, Obama, got 21 percent of respondents.

As for Heritage’s sample, which NBC calls voters from “10 relatively competitive congressional districts,” and Heritage says represents “the American people” as a whole — not so much.


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Josh Dorner of the Center for American Progress Action Fund — Heritage Action’s ideological rival — cries foul. He sent over the partisan breakdown of each of the 10 districts and noted that every single one leans Republican:

o FL-2 Southerland R+5
o GA-12 Barrow R+9
o IL-18 Schock R+10
o NJ-7 Lance R+6
o NC-2 Ellmers R+11
o NC-7 McIntyre R+11
o OH-12 Tiberi R+8
o OR-2 Walden R+10
o UT-4 Matheson R+14
o WV-3 Rahall R+14

The poll even asked respondents directly for their party affiliation. Not surprisingly, there were almost 10 percentage points more Republicans (41.8 percent) than Democrats (33 percent). That looks even worse when you consider that more people identify as Democrats than Republicans nationwide, and by a margin of 7 percentage points, according to the latest Gallup survey. That means that Heritage’s poll is arguably oversampling Republicans by around 15 percent.

One could further take issue with a poll that asks respondents leading questions like, do you think Congress should “halt funding for the health care law before provisions take effect, to make sure they do not do more harm than good?”

And the key question of the survey — would you support a government shutdown to defund Obamacare? — is comically euphemistic, calling a hypothetical shutdown a “temporary slowdown in non-essential federal government operations, which still left all essential government services running.”

And yet, despite oversampling Republicans and asking misleading questions, the poll still finds that pluralities favor keeping Obamacare and that Republicans would bear the brunt of the public’s wrath if the government shuts down.

by on Aug. 15, 2013 at 8:59 AM
Replies (31-40):
cjsbmom
by Lois Lane on Aug. 17, 2013 at 6:57 PM
1 mom liked this

I'm not Canadian. My husband is. So it's not my country's citizens. 

And no, I'm not interested in informing my doctor friend about your beliefs on the ACA as if they were fact.  She works in the field every day and I value her opinion a lot more than someone who doesn't work in the industry. 

Quoting grandmab125:

 Well you doctor friend doesn't know what he/she is talking about.  It will definitely become rationed under Obamacare.  Obamacare has an 'advisory board' of non-medical hacks and political appointees who will be doing just that.  Hell the gov't already rations care to Medicare Patients.  And it's going to get worse, since Obama stole something like $716B from Medicare to help pay for Obamacare.

Inform your doctor friend, that Obamacare train wreck was set up to fail, so he can ride in on the white horse to save everyone with national/socialized health care.  You know, the kind where the gov't makes all of the decisions on health care.

Well, FYI, we don't like your system....long wait times and denial of services.  You can keep it.  And we'll keep treating your citizens who have the money to come here, where they don't have to wait 6 months for their elective surgeries.

Quoting cjsbmom:

If it's considered non-emergency, then yes, you wait until the emergencies are taken care of first. That's the way it should work, IMO. I was talking to a friend who is a doctor recently, and she was saying that the day is coming when healthcare here in the U.S. is rationed, and not because it's a universal healthcare system, but because that's how insurance companies will decide to increase their profits. 

Anyone who has an HMO will tell you that denial of services and long wait times already are the norm in this country. 

Quoting grandmab125:

 cjsbmom:

You don't know every thing.  Check out these links to info from Canadian sites:

OECD iLibrary: Statistics / Health at a Glance / 2011 / Waiting times

http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/health_glance-2011-en/06/08/index.html;jsessionid=as008die826bn.delta?contentType=&itemId=/content/chapter/health_glance-2011-59-en&containerItemId=/content/serial/19991312&accessItemIds=/content/book/health_glance-2011-en&mimeType=text/html - 24k -

Surgery wait times in Canadagrowing longer: report - CTV News

http://www.ctvnews.ca/surgery-wait-times-in-canada-growing-longer-report-1.739055 - -

Waiting Your Turn: Wait Times for Health Care in Canada, 2012 ...

http://www.fraserinstitute.org/uploadedFiles/fraser-ca/Content/research-news/research/publications/waiting-your-turn-2012.pdf

The Canadian gov't considers it great if people get their non-emergency surgies within 182 days.....that's their noble (not) goal.

Surgical wait times not improving - Health - CBC News

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/2013/03/19/wait-times-surgery.html -


 


grandmab125
by Gold Member on Aug. 17, 2013 at 9:51 PM

 Once again, your friend is full of shit.  When Obamacare crumbles under its own weight, the gov't will come to the rescue with single payer.  You do know what single payer health care is, don't you?  Our money goes to the gov't, not insurance companies (they will cease to exist, or perhaps exist in a much smaller capacity as a co-insurance type thing for those who can afford it), and the gov't will be the insurer.

Read and learn:

More Proof That The American For-Profit Health Insurance Model Is ...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2011/12/28/more-proof-that-the-american-for-profit-health-insurance-model-is-doomed/ - 110k -

 

Single-Payer Health Care Is Coming To America-Are We Ready ...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2012/02/23/single-payer-health-care-is-coming-to-america-are-we-ready/ - 123k -

 

Single-payer health care is a system in which the government, rather than private insurers, pays for all health care costs.[1] Single-payer systems may contract for healthcare services from private organizations (as is the case in Canada) or may own and employ healthcare resources and personnel (as is the case in the UK). The term "single-payer" thus only describes the funding mechanism—referring to health care financed by a single public body from a single fund—and does not specify the type of delivery, or for whom doctors work. Although the fund holder is usually the state, some forms of single-payer use a mixed public-private system.

Quoting cjsbmom:

I'm not Canadian. My husband is. So it's not my country's citizens. 

And no, I'm not interested in informing my doctor friend about your beliefs on the ACA as if they were fact.  She works in the field every day and I value her opinion a lot more than someone who doesn't work in the industry. 

Quoting grandmab125:

 Well you doctor friend doesn't know what he/she is talking about.  It will definitely become rationed under Obamacare.  Obamacare has an 'advisory board' of non-medical hacks and political appointees who will be doing just that.  Hell the gov't already rations care to Medicare Patients.  And it's going to get worse, since Obama stole something like $716B from Medicare to help pay for Obamacare.

Inform your doctor friend, that Obamacare train wreck was set up to fail, so he can ride in on the white horse to save everyone with national/socialized health care.  You know, the kind where the gov't makes all of the decisions on health care.

Well, FYI, we don't like your system....long wait times and denial of services.  You can keep it.  And we'll keep treating your citizens who have the money to come here, where they don't have to wait 6 months for their elective surgeries.

Quoting cjsbmom:

If it's considered non-emergency, then yes, you wait until the emergencies are taken care of first. That's the way it should work, IMO. I was talking to a friend who is a doctor recently, and she was saying that the day is coming when healthcare here in the U.S. is rationed, and not because it's a universal healthcare system, but because that's how insurance companies will decide to increase their profits. 

Anyone who has an HMO will tell you that denial of services and long wait times already are the norm in this country. 

Quoting grandmab125:

 cjsbmom:

You don't know every thing.  Check out these links to info from Canadian sites:

OECD iLibrary: Statistics / Health at a Glance / 2011 / Waiting times

http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/health_glance-2011-en/06/08/index.html;jsessionid=as008die826bn.delta?contentType=&itemId=/content/chapter/health_glance-2011-59-en&containerItemId=/content/serial/19991312&accessItemIds=/content/book/health_glance-2011-en&mimeType=text/html - 24k -

Surgery wait times in Canadagrowing longer: report - CTV News

http://www.ctvnews.ca/surgery-wait-times-in-canada-growing-longer-report-1.739055 - -

Waiting Your Turn: Wait Times for Health Care in Canada, 2012 ...

http://www.fraserinstitute.org/uploadedFiles/fraser-ca/Content/research-news/research/publications/waiting-your-turn-2012.pdf

The Canadian gov't considers it great if people get their non-emergency surgies within 182 days.....that's their noble (not) goal.

Surgical wait times not improving - Health - CBC News

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/2013/03/19/wait-times-surgery.html -


 


 

grandma B

Della529
by Matlock on Aug. 17, 2013 at 11:14 PM

 You should probably know - your link is from 2011 and says Principal Financial Group "late last year that they were leaving the health insurance business, impacting on some 840,000 insured.".

PFG continues in the health insurance to this day.  http://www.principal.com/grouplh/

Sounds like Rick Ungar, the author of the article, was wrong.

Quoting grandmab125:

 Once again, your friend is full of shit.  When Obamacare crumbles under its own weight, the gov't will come to the rescue with single payer.  You do know what single payer health care is, don't you?  Our money goes to the gov't, not insurance companies (they will cease to exist, or perhaps exist in a much smaller capacity as a co-insurance type thing for those who can afford it), and the gov't will be the insurer.

Read and learn:

More Proof That The American For-Profit Health Insurance Model Is ...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2011/12/28/more-proof-that-the-american-for-profit-health-insurance-model-is-doomed/ - 110k -

 

Single-Payer Health Care Is Coming To America-Are We Ready ...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2012/02/23/single-payer-health-care-is-coming-to-america-are-we-ready/ - 123k -

 

Single-payer health care is a system in which the government, rather than private insurers, pays for all health care costs.[1] Single-payer systems may contract for healthcare services from private organizations (as is the case in Canada) or may own and employ healthcare resources and personnel (as is the case in the UK). The term "single-payer" thus only describes the funding mechanism—referring to health care financed by a single public body from a single fund—and does not specify the type of delivery, or for whom doctors work. Although the fund holder is usually the state, some forms of single-payer use a mixed public-private system.

Quoting cjsbmom:

I'm not Canadian. My husband is. So it's not my country's citizens. 

And no, I'm not interested in informing my doctor friend about your beliefs on the ACA as if they were fact.  She works in the field every day and I value her opinion a lot more than someone who doesn't work in the industry. 

Quoting grandmab125:

 Well you doctor friend doesn't know what he/she is talking about.  It will definitely become rationed under Obamacare.  Obamacare has an 'advisory board' of non-medical hacks and political appointees who will be doing just that.  Hell the gov't already rations care to Medicare Patients.  And it's going to get worse, since Obama stole something like $716B from Medicare to help pay for Obamacare.

Inform your doctor friend, that Obamacare train wreck was set up to fail, so he can ride in on the white horse to save everyone with national/socialized health care.  You know, the kind where the gov't makes all of the decisions on health care.

Well, FYI, we don't like your system....long wait times and denial of services.  You can keep it.  And we'll keep treating your citizens who have the money to come here, where they don't have to wait 6 months for their elective surgeries.

Quoting cjsbmom:

If it's considered non-emergency, then yes, you wait until the emergencies are taken care of first. That's the way it should work, IMO. I was talking to a friend who is a doctor recently, and she was saying that the day is coming when healthcare here in the U.S. is rationed, and not because it's a universal healthcare system, but because that's how insurance companies will decide to increase their profits. 

Anyone who has an HMO will tell you that denial of services and long wait times already are the norm in this country. 

Quoting grandmab125:

 cjsbmom:

You don't know every thing.  Check out these links to info from Canadian sites:

OECD iLibrary: Statistics / Health at a Glance / 2011 / Waiting times

http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/health_glance-2011-en/06/08/index.html;jsessionid=as008die826bn.delta?contentType=&itemId=/content/chapter/health_glance-2011-59-en&containerItemId=/content/serial/19991312&accessItemIds=/content/book/health_glance-2011-en&mimeType=text/html - 24k -

Surgery wait times in Canadagrowing longer: report - CTV News

http://www.ctvnews.ca/surgery-wait-times-in-canada-growing-longer-report-1.739055 - -

Waiting Your Turn: Wait Times for Health Care in Canada, 2012 ...

http://www.fraserinstitute.org/uploadedFiles/fraser-ca/Content/research-news/research/publications/waiting-your-turn-2012.pdf

The Canadian gov't considers it great if people get their non-emergency surgies within 182 days.....that's their noble (not) goal.

Surgical wait times not improving - Health - CBC News

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/2013/03/19/wait-times-surgery.html -


 


 

 

Aestas
by Gold Member on Aug. 18, 2013 at 12:26 AM

This. So much this. 

Quoting cjsbmom:

All of this confusion would not be happening if Obama had just done what he actually promised, which was to bring universal healthcare to the US. There is no confusion about how that works. No insurance exchanges to establish and monitor. No wondering if you're in network or not. No fines if you're not insured because everyone is insured. You walk into any doctor's office or hospital and you receive treatment. It's really quite simple. What complicated it was Congress' hissy fit in refusing to allow real healthcare reform in this country, so now we're stuck with the clusterfuck that is the ACA. 

RandRMomma
by Maya on Aug. 18, 2013 at 1:37 AM
Because your mind is full of them. ;-)

Quoting numbr1wmn:

 


Why am I hearing crickets?....


Quoting grandmab125:


 Oh now, don't burst their kool-aid reinforced bubble with facts.


Quoting numbr1wmn:


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/08/14/summertime-blues-polls-show-obamacare-support-eroding-amid-implementation/



As problems continue to pile up over the implementation of the Affordable Care Act, summertime polls from Fox News, Gallup and Rasmussen signal that growing confusion over the complexities of the law, how it will be rolled out and how much it will cost is eroding public support.   


A majority of Americans say they believe the new health care law will increase their medical costs and taxes, according to an Aug. 8 Fox News poll. The survey found 57 percent of those polled felt the way ObamaCare was being rolled out was "a joke." 


Overall, 63 percent of voters believe that the 2010 health care law needs to be changed. That number is up from 58 percent of those asked the question in July 2012. 


The number of Republicans who think the law should be changed remained steady at 84 percent. According to the poll, more voters used negative terms to describe the health care overhaul -- with 39 percent calling it "disastrous" and 14 percent calling it "a step backwards." 



Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/08/14/summertime-blues-polls-show-obamacare-support-eroding-amid-implementation/#ixzz2c8txUvms



Public Approval of Obama's Health Care Law



Polling Data



























































Poll Date Sample For/Favor Against/Oppose Spread
RCP Average 6/20 - 8/10 -- 39.5 51.3 Against/Oppose +11.8
Rasmussen Reports* 8/9 - 8/10 1000 LV 41 53 Against/Oppose +12
FOX News* 7/21 - 7/23 1017 RV 40 53 Against/Oppose +13
CBS News 7/18 - 7/22 1036 A 36 54 Against/Oppose +18
ABC News/Wash Post 7/18 - 7/21 1002 A 42 49 Against/Oppose +7
NBC News/Wall St. Jrnl 7/17 - 7/21 1000 A 34 47 Against/Oppose +13
Gallup 6/20 - 6/24 2048 A 44 52 Against/Oppose +8

All Public Approval of Obama's Health Care Law Polling Data


 

 




 

RandRMomma
by Maya on Aug. 18, 2013 at 1:37 AM
I agree.

Quoting cjsbmom:

All of this confusion would not be happening if Obama had just done what he actually promised, which was to bring universal healthcare to the US. There is no confusion about how that works. No insurance exchanges to establish and monitor. No wondering if you're in network or not. No fines if you're not insured because everyone is insured. You walk into any doctor's office or hospital and you receive treatment. It's really quite simple. What complicated it was Congress' hissy fit in refusing to allow real healthcare reform in this country, so now we're stuck with the clusterfuck that is the ACA. 

Quoting numbr1wmn:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/08/14/summertime-blues-polls-show-obamacare-support-eroding-amid-implementation/



As problems continue to pile up over the implementation of the Affordable Care Act, summertime polls from Fox News, Gallup and Rasmussen signal that growing confusion over the complexities of the law, how it will be rolled out and how much it will cost is eroding public support.   


A majority of Americans say they believe the new health care law will increase their medical costs and taxes, according to an Aug. 8 Fox News poll. The survey found 57 percent of those polled felt the way ObamaCare was being rolled out was "a joke." 


Overall, 63 percent of voters believe that the 2010 health care law needs to be changed. That number is up from 58 percent of those asked the question in July 2012. 


The number of Republicans who think the law should be changed remained steady at 84 percent. According to the poll, more voters used negative terms to describe the health care overhaul -- with 39 percent calling it "disastrous" and 14 percent calling it "a step backwards." 



Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/08/14/summertime-blues-polls-show-obamacare-support-eroding-amid-implementation/#ixzz2c8txUvms



Public Approval of Obama's Health Care Law



Polling Data



























































Poll Date Sample For/Favor Against/Oppose Spread
RCP Average 6/20 - 8/10 -- 39.5 51.3 Against/Oppose +11.8
Rasmussen Reports* 8/9 - 8/10 1000 LV 41 53 Against/Oppose +12
FOX News* 7/21 - 7/23 1017 RV 40 53 Against/Oppose +13
CBS News 7/18 - 7/22 1036 A 36 54 Against/Oppose +18
ABC News/Wash Post 7/18 - 7/21 1002 A 42 49 Against/Oppose +7
NBC News/Wall St. Jrnl 7/17 - 7/21 1000 A 34 47 Against/Oppose +13
Gallup 6/20 - 6/24 2048 A 44 52 Against/Oppose +8

All Public Approval of Obama's Health Care Law Polling Data


 


cjsbmom
by Lois Lane on Aug. 18, 2013 at 8:24 AM
1 mom liked this

First off, since you seem to have a reading comprehension issue, let me type this slowly and in big letters to help you out. MY DH IS CANADIAN. HIS ENTIRE FAMILY LIVES IN CANADA. I MOST CERTAINLY DO UNDERSTAND WHAT A SINGLE-PAYER HEALTHCARE SYSTEM IS, SO YOU CAN STOP ASKING ME THAT QUESTION. You clearly are the one who doesn't understand what a single-payer healthcare system is. You just buy into the GOP rhetoric that is floating around and use it as fact when it doesn't represent the reality of true universal healthcare. 

Secondly, you may want to read your own link.  It's from 2011 and totally contradicts what you are saying if you look up the more recent studies/information about the examples the writer mentions there. The only person full of shit here is you. You spout off your personal opinion as if it's fact without ever having experienced the things of which you speak and then tell the rest of us we need to get a clue. The only one here who needs a clue is you. 

With universal healthcare, insurance companies will still exist. People will still have the option of buying private insurance. It just won't be required in order to receive medical benefits. How do you think those Canadians who come here for medical services pay for it? They use their private insurance. They also can use private insurance in their own country to move to the "front of the line" for elective or non-emergency services if they so choose. But it's at an additional cost to them to purchase that insurance coverage individually. You are the one who needs to research the facts. 

Quoting grandmab125:

 Once again, your friend is full of shit.  When Obamacare crumbles under its own weight, the gov't will come to the rescue with single payer.  You do know what single payer health care is, don't you?  Our money goes to the gov't, not insurance companies (they will cease to exist, or perhaps exist in a much smaller capacity as a co-insurance type thing for those who can afford it), and the gov't will be the insurer.

Read and learn:

More Proof That The American For-Profit Health Insurance Model Is ...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2011/12/28/more-proof-that-the-american-for-profit-health-insurance-model-is-doomed/ - 110k -

 

Single-Payer Health Care Is Coming To America-Are We Ready ...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2012/02/23/single-payer-health-care-is-coming-to-america-are-we-ready/ - 123k -


Single-payer health care is a system in which the government, rather than private insurers, pays for all health care costs.[1] Single-payer systems may contract for healthcare services from private organizations (as is the case in Canada) or may own and employ healthcare resources and personnel (as is the case in the UK). The term "single-payer" thus only describes the funding mechanism—referring to health care financed by a single public body from a single fund—and does not specify the type of delivery, or for whom doctors work. Although the fund holder is usually the state, some forms of single-payer use a mixed public-private system.

Quoting cjsbmom:

I'm not Canadian. My husband is. So it's not my country's citizens. 

And no, I'm not interested in informing my doctor friend about your beliefs on the ACA as if they were fact.  She works in the field every day and I value her opinion a lot more than someone who doesn't work in the industry. 

Quoting grandmab125:

 Well you doctor friend doesn't know what he/she is talking about.  It will definitely become rationed under Obamacare.  Obamacare has an 'advisory board' of non-medical hacks and political appointees who will be doing just that.  Hell the gov't already rations care to Medicare Patients.  And it's going to get worse, since Obama stole something like $716B from Medicare to help pay for Obamacare.

Inform your doctor friend, that Obamacare train wreck was set up to fail, so he can ride in on the white horse to save everyone with national/socialized health care.  You know, the kind where the gov't makes all of the decisions on health care.

Well, FYI, we don't like your system....long wait times and denial of services.  You can keep it.  And we'll keep treating your citizens who have the money to come here, where they don't have to wait 6 months for their elective surgeries.

Quoting cjsbmom:

If it's considered non-emergency, then yes, you wait until the emergencies are taken care of first. That's the way it should work, IMO. I was talking to a friend who is a doctor recently, and she was saying that the day is coming when healthcare here in the U.S. is rationed, and not because it's a universal healthcare system, but because that's how insurance companies will decide to increase their profits. 

Anyone who has an HMO will tell you that denial of services and long wait times already are the norm in this country. 

Quoting grandmab125:

 cjsbmom:

You don't know every thing.  Check out these links to info from Canadian sites:

OECD iLibrary: Statistics / Health at a Glance / 2011 / Waiting times

http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/health_glance-2011-en/06/08/index.html;jsessionid=as008die826bn.delta?contentType=&itemId=/content/chapter/health_glance-2011-59-en&containerItemId=/content/serial/19991312&accessItemIds=/content/book/health_glance-2011-en&mimeType=text/html - 24k -

Surgery wait times in Canadagrowing longer: report - CTV News

http://www.ctvnews.ca/surgery-wait-times-in-canada-growing-longer-report-1.739055 - -

Waiting Your Turn: Wait Times for Health Care in Canada, 2012 ...

http://www.fraserinstitute.org/uploadedFiles/fraser-ca/Content/research-news/research/publications/waiting-your-turn-2012.pdf

The Canadian gov't considers it great if people get their non-emergency surgies within 182 days.....that's their noble (not) goal.

Surgical wait times not improving - Health - CBC News

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/2013/03/19/wait-times-surgery.html -


 


 


cjsbmom
by Lois Lane on Aug. 18, 2013 at 8:25 AM
2 moms liked this

A lot of what she posts is flat out wrong, which is amusing, because she then tells the rest of us that we don't have a clue. I think the only one who is clueless here is her. 

Quoting Della529:

 You should probably know - your link is from 2011 and says Principal Financial Group "late last year that they were leaving the health insurance business, impacting on some 840,000 insured.".

PFG continues in the health insurance to this day.  http://www.principal.com/grouplh/

Sounds like Rick Ungar, the author of the article, was wrong.

Quoting grandmab125:

 Once again, your friend is full of shit.  When Obamacare crumbles under its own weight, the gov't will come to the rescue with single payer.  You do know what single payer health care is, don't you?  Our money goes to the gov't, not insurance companies (they will cease to exist, or perhaps exist in a much smaller capacity as a co-insurance type thing for those who can afford it), and the gov't will be the insurer.

Read and learn:

More Proof That The American For-Profit Health Insurance Model Is ...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2011/12/28/more-proof-that-the-american-for-profit-health-insurance-model-is-doomed/ - 110k -

 

Single-Payer Health Care Is Coming To America-Are We Ready ...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2012/02/23/single-payer-health-care-is-coming-to-america-are-we-ready/ - 123k -


Single-payer health care is a system in which the government, rather than private insurers, pays for all health care costs.[1] Single-payer systems may contract for healthcare services from private organizations (as is the case in Canada) or may own and employ healthcare resources and personnel (as is the case in the UK). The term "single-payer" thus only describes the funding mechanism—referring to health care financed by a single public body from a single fund—and does not specify the type of delivery, or for whom doctors work. Although the fund holder is usually the state, some forms of single-payer use a mixed public-private system.

Quoting cjsbmom:

I'm not Canadian. My husband is. So it's not my country's citizens. 

And no, I'm not interested in informing my doctor friend about your beliefs on the ACA as if they were fact.  She works in the field every day and I value her opinion a lot more than someone who doesn't work in the industry. 

Quoting grandmab125:

 Well you doctor friend doesn't know what he/she is talking about.  It will definitely become rationed under Obamacare.  Obamacare has an 'advisory board' of non-medical hacks and political appointees who will be doing just that.  Hell the gov't already rations care to Medicare Patients.  And it's going to get worse, since Obama stole something like $716B from Medicare to help pay for Obamacare.

Inform your doctor friend, that Obamacare train wreck was set up to fail, so he can ride in on the white horse to save everyone with national/socialized health care.  You know, the kind where the gov't makes all of the decisions on health care.

Well, FYI, we don't like your system....long wait times and denial of services.  You can keep it.  And we'll keep treating your citizens who have the money to come here, where they don't have to wait 6 months for their elective surgeries.

Quoting cjsbmom:

If it's considered non-emergency, then yes, you wait until the emergencies are taken care of first. That's the way it should work, IMO. I was talking to a friend who is a doctor recently, and she was saying that the day is coming when healthcare here in the U.S. is rationed, and not because it's a universal healthcare system, but because that's how insurance companies will decide to increase their profits. 

Anyone who has an HMO will tell you that denial of services and long wait times already are the norm in this country. 

Quoting grandmab125:

 cjsbmom:

You don't know every thing.  Check out these links to info from Canadian sites:

OECD iLibrary: Statistics / Health at a Glance / 2011 / Waiting times

http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/health_glance-2011-en/06/08/index.html;jsessionid=as008die826bn.delta?contentType=&itemId=/content/chapter/health_glance-2011-59-en&containerItemId=/content/serial/19991312&accessItemIds=/content/book/health_glance-2011-en&mimeType=text/html - 24k -

Surgery wait times in Canadagrowing longer: report - CTV News

http://www.ctvnews.ca/surgery-wait-times-in-canada-growing-longer-report-1.739055 - -

Waiting Your Turn: Wait Times for Health Care in Canada, 2012 ...

http://www.fraserinstitute.org/uploadedFiles/fraser-ca/Content/research-news/research/publications/waiting-your-turn-2012.pdf

The Canadian gov't considers it great if people get their non-emergency surgies within 182 days.....that's their noble (not) goal.

Surgical wait times not improving - Health - CBC News

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/2013/03/19/wait-times-surgery.html -


 


 

 


12hellokitty
by Platinum Member on Aug. 18, 2013 at 8:37 AM
1 mom liked this


No confusion how it works, except for how its funded?  And the little hissy fit of democrats in congress who wanted to force Obamacare on everyone except their own families....

Quoting cjsbmom:

All of this confusion would not be happening if Obama had just done what he actually promised, which was to bring universal healthcare to the US. There is no confusion about how that works. No insurance exchanges to establish and monitor. No wondering if you're in network or not. No fines if you're not insured because everyone is insured. You walk into any doctor's office or hospital and you receive treatment. It's really quite simple. What complicated it was Congress' hissy fit in refusing to allow real healthcare reform in this country, so now we're stuck with the clusterfuck that is the ACA. 

Quoting numbr1wmn:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/08/14/summertime-blues-polls-show-obamacare-support-eroding-amid-implementation/

As problems continue to pile up over the implementation of the Affordable Care Act, summertime polls from Fox News, Gallup and Rasmussen signal that growing confusion over the complexities of the law, how it will be rolled out and how much it will cost is eroding public support.   

A majority of Americans say they believe the new health care law will increase their medical costs and taxes, according to an Aug. 8 Fox News poll. The survey found 57 percent of those polled felt the way ObamaCare was being rolled out was "a joke." 

Overall, 63 percent of voters believe that the 2010 health care law needs to be changed. That number is up from 58 percent of those asked the question in July 2012. 

The number of Republicans who think the law should be changed remained steady at 84 percent. According to the poll, more voters used negative terms to describe the health care overhaul -- with 39 percent calling it "disastrous" and 14 percent calling it "a step backwards." 



Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/08/14/summertime-blues-polls-show-obamacare-support-eroding-amid-implementation/#ixzz2c8txUvms

Public Approval of Obama's Health Care Law

Polling Data

Poll Date Sample For/Favor Against/Oppose Spread
RCP Average 6/20 - 8/10 -- 39.5 51.3 Against/Oppose +11.8
Rasmussen Reports* 8/9 - 8/10 1000 LV 41 53 Against/Oppose +12
FOX News* 7/21 - 7/23 1017 RV 40 53 Against/Oppose +13
CBS News 7/18 - 7/22 1036 A 36 54 Against/Oppose +18
ABC News/Wash Post 7/18 - 7/21 1002 A 42 49 Against/Oppose +7
NBC News/Wall St. Jrnl 7/17 - 7/21 1000 A 34 47 Against/Oppose +13
Gallup 6/20 - 6/24 2048 A 44 52 Against/Oppose +8

All Public Approval of Obama's Health Care Law Polling Data

 




12hellokitty
by Platinum Member on Aug. 18, 2013 at 8:47 AM
1 mom liked this

Have you not been listening to doctors in the US who have stated this is what will happen with the implementation of Obamacare?  


Quoting cjsbmom:

I don't even see it. Can you give me a link to it please?

Also, I wanted to mention that part of the reason routine procedures are falling behind in Canada is because they have a shortage of doctors in that country. Fewer people are going into the field. They are choosing more lucrative work, or leaving  Canada to work elsewhere. 


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