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For those who feel church charities should/could replace welfare

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How would that work, exactly? 

Would one need to be a member?

If not, what would be the eligibility criteria specifically (other than generic "need")?

what services/help would be provided and to who? ( other than the generic "whatever they need")

how would the church reach out to those in need? Would the needy need to come beg?

if so, would there be a standard for eligibility and services that all church charities would be forced to meet or would the needy person need to go begging at multiple churches to find a "fit" during their time of need?

could the church turn down someone asking for help if the church does not approve of them for any reason? Like a gay married couple in need? 

Im not wanting a bash post... I am just wondering how this would work exactly....

Not Without Panties

by on Aug. 27, 2013 at 12:22 AM
Replies (31-40):
NWP
by guerrilla girl on Aug. 27, 2013 at 8:41 AM

That's great of your church!

And I completely share the same concerns with you in your last paragraph.

IMO church charities are a great supplement/compliment to welfare, but should not become the primary source or replace it, for the reasons you listed.

Quoting mcginnisc:

Our Church is incredible... we have several outreach ministries...

We have one called : Exit 1- this is an actual interstate exit where there are hundreds of homeless people living in tents. Our Church provides full lunches everyday, as well as once per month, they have a service there for them if they wish to attend. They also hand out camping supplies, food, clothing, toys, books, and they provide a hot lunch and showers. 

Hug Events: This is huge. They actually do this at Turner Field in Atlanta and they minister to thousands there by having hot food, and donations. 

There are so many more charity events, but what is great is that the Pastors will post things on FB about people that need help ( car is broken down, left abusive relationship and need housing for woman and children, as well as needs of the homeless in our community) and those needs are met very quickly by members of the Church. 

ETA: That said, I'm not sure that I feel public assistance should be replaced...reformed maybe, but not replaced. There is that little tidbit in the Constitution about the separation of Church and State, so I don't feel it would be in the best interests of the public if welfare programs were nixed completely and Churches took over. Some Churches are not as willing as others to minister to those with opposing views in life, which is a shame as Christ calls for us as Christians to help others regardless of their beliefs.


Not Without Panties

snookyfritz
by Platinum Member on Aug. 27, 2013 at 8:41 AM

Well, honestly the Catholic church isn't a charitable organization, nor is any other chuch.  Their first responsibility is to spread the gospel.  Often non Catholic church take it as a direct order.  Catholics tend to help with the grace of Christ and hope that the person will continue to come and feel the love of God and the church through us.  It's different approaches to what exactly spreading the Gospel is that's the problem


Quoting Della529:

 No, one doesn't have to be Catholic, but when requesting assistance with bills (housing, utilities) they do have to bring proof of the bill and proof of income.  This is because of government funding (which was increased under the Obama administration) and the requirement to account for where the money is distributed.

I did an experiment when my oldest dd was an infant.  I dressed us both in raggedy clothes and went to various churches looking for "help".  The only ones that really offered any kind of real "help" were the Catholics, the Methodists, and Jews (Jewish Family & Community Services).  I was really appalled by the response from our mega-Baptist church and smaller Protestant denominations.  They were more interested in getting us into church and "saving" our souls. 

And before anyone jumps on the bash bandwagon - I didn't need help or accept it.  I simply wanted to verify for myself something my father had said about Catholicism, namely that it was the most generous.

Quoting candlegal:

I would bet that it was the St. Vincent de Paul Society.  Most Catholic Churches have one and they will help anyone in the neighborhood.   You don't have to be Catholic.  They will help with your bills and give you food to feed your family.

Quoting weirdkids:

catholic charities seems to be more open to all walks of life. at least from my exeriance. a close friend of mine went through some rough times due to a bad choice in a roommate. she went through every avenue. her power was about to get shut off because the roommate said he was paying the bill and as it turns out he didnt pay it for almost 6 mo. she couldnt afford to pay it by the time she found out and was already behind on other bills trying to play catch up thanks to roommate. she had 3 small kids and one of them was under a year. she went and applied everywhere for assistance and the only people that would help were Catholic Cherities. i went with her for her appointment. it was interesting but not once overwhelming. the priest was very sweet. asked where our faith lied and we were honest with him. we told him we were pagan. unlike some christian denominations there was no "you are going to hell unless you give your heart to jesus, come get saved with us" (long story) hekinda got that interested look and started asking questions. we sat there an hour past the appointment time just chatting and comparing practices.

now one of the first places she tried was a baptist church. they were aweful. (** i mean no offence to anyone, it was just OUR experiance with the one particular church**) it started out normal. income check verifications, all that fun stuff. questions on what the money was for and what had happened to get that way etc. then it started. first was "well why doesnt your church help you?"so she told the woman that she and her family were pagan. the woman looked like her heart stopped. then the shit hit the fan. that woman went off on her for everything from going to hell for worshiping false gods to that she was going to hell for having children out of wedlock and they would go there too and it just got worse from there. at one point she even said that my friends children should be taken from her by families in the church so they could be saved from her wicked ways. my friend left hysterical. i was so in shock. i could not believe that someone who calls themselves christian could behave in such a manner. needless to say, they denied her the help.



 



NWP
by guerrilla girl on Aug. 27, 2013 at 8:43 AM
3 moms liked this

I totally agree that lately Texas sure sucks with all that government over reach wanting to control folks through extra regulations.

Quoting candlegal:

Our Church goes out 2 times a day to feed the homeless.   they have been doing this for years.   Unfortunately the city of San antonio is not happy about this are doing everything they can to bring all of this back under city control.  They dont' seem to want the Churches doing this, they want the taxpayers paying for it all.  They ara still doing it but run into a lot of roadblocks while doing it.


Not Without Panties

NWP
by guerrilla girl on Aug. 27, 2013 at 8:48 AM

Catholic Charities sound like they do a pretty good job of giving temporary help, but I don't think they could be as comprehensive as a state social service, ie: healthcare, BC, other stuff they might not support.

That said, do you consider CC a socialist program?

Quoting billsfan1104:

What is your definition of beg?
One church tweets, or FB posts where they will be on a Saturdayfor grocery give out. Every one is welcome. They even give out clothes, toys, books and so forth. They are there for prayer as well. But they have never asked what people's personal lives are about.
I am Catholic, so if someone calls, they are usually referred to Catholic Charities and if it is an emergency, they get an appointment right away. Catholic Charities helps everyone. I have never been asked about my personal life. I have even asked my religion, but they also make it clear that I dot have to answer. I think it's for accounting and also so that they don't do anything to offend someone or go against their beliefs like a Jew or Muslim or Pagan.


Quoting NWP:

Ok how does that process work exactly? Can you cover the points asked in the op? Also do people need to come beg?



Quoting billsfan1104:

Our church and all the churches in our town, gives to everyone. They do not ask if they are gay or single or anything. That is not the point of charity. The point of Charity is to help EVERYONE in need.


Not Without Panties

parentalrights1
by on Aug. 27, 2013 at 8:50 AM
1 mom liked this
I would hate to have to rely on a bunch of right wingers to be charitable haha
billsfan1104
by Jules on Aug. 27, 2013 at 8:51 AM
Indont consider it a socialist program. I consider it a church that is helping, because they are suppose too and also because God tells us to help others in need.
I don't think that churches should ever replace the government programs, but our government programs sure do need an overhaul or to be fixed.


Quoting NWP:

Catholic Charities sound like they do a pretty good job of giving temporary help, but I don't think they could be as comprehensive as a state social service, ie: healthcare, BC, other stuff they might not support.

That said, do you consider CC a socialist program?

Quoting billsfan1104:

What is your definition of beg?

One church tweets, or FB posts where they will be on a Saturdayfor grocery give out. Every one is welcome. They even give out clothes, toys, books and so forth. They are there for prayer as well. But they have never asked what people's personal lives are about.

I am Catholic, so if someone calls, they are usually referred to Catholic Charities and if it is an emergency, they get an appointment right away. Catholic Charities helps everyone. I have never been asked about my personal life. I have even asked my religion, but they also make it clear that I dot have to answer. I think it's for accounting and also so that they don't do anything to offend someone or go against their beliefs like a Jew or Muslim or Pagan.





Quoting NWP:

Ok how does that process work exactly? Can you cover the points asked in the op? Also do people need to come beg?





Quoting billsfan1104:

Our church and all the churches in our town, gives to everyone. They do not ask if they are gay or single or anything. That is not the point of charity. The point of Charity is to help EVERYONE in need.


NWP
by guerrilla girl on Aug. 27, 2013 at 8:52 AM

Very interesting! I'm actually not surprised at the results of your experiment.

However I was completely unaware that CC uses taxpayer funds to help the poor. That strikes me as odd....

Quoting Della529:

 No, one doesn't have to be Catholic, but when requesting assistance with bills (housing, utilities) they do have to bring proof of the bill and proof of income.  This is because of government funding (which was increased under the Obama administration) and the requirement to account for where the money is distributed.

I did an experiment when my oldest dd was an infant.  I dressed us both in raggedy clothes and went to various churches looking for "help".  The only ones that really offered any kind of real "help" were the Catholics, the Methodists, and Jews (Jewish Family & Community Services).  I was really appalled by the response from our mega-Baptist church and smaller Protestant denominations.  They were more interested in getting us into church and "saving" our souls. 

And before anyone jumps on the bash bandwagon - I didn't need help or accept it.  I simply wanted to verify for myself something my father had said about Catholicism, namely that it was the most generous.

Quoting candlegal:

I would bet that it was the St. Vincent de Paul Society.  Most Catholic Churches have one and they will help anyone in the neighborhood.   You don't have to be Catholic.  They will help with your bills and give you food to feed your family.

Quoting weirdkids:

catholic charities seems to be more open to all walks of life. at least from my exeriance. a close friend of mine went through some rough times due to a bad choice in a roommate. she went through every avenue. her power was about to get shut off because the roommate said he was paying the bill and as it turns out he didnt pay it for almost 6 mo. she couldnt afford to pay it by the time she found out and was already behind on other bills trying to play catch up thanks to roommate. she had 3 small kids and one of them was under a year. she went and applied everywhere for assistance and the only people that would help were Catholic Cherities. i went with her for her appointment. it was interesting but not once overwhelming. the priest was very sweet. asked where our faith lied and we were honest with him. we told him we were pagan. unlike some christian denominations there was no "you are going to hell unless you give your heart to jesus, come get saved with us" (long story) hekinda got that interested look and started asking questions. we sat there an hour past the appointment time just chatting and comparing practices.

now one of the first places she tried was a baptist church. they were aweful. (** i mean no offence to anyone, it was just OUR experiance with the one particular church**) it started out normal. income check verifications, all that fun stuff. questions on what the money was for and what had happened to get that way etc. then it started. first was "well why doesnt your church help you?"so she told the woman that she and her family were pagan. the woman looked like her heart stopped. then the shit hit the fan. that woman went off on her for everything from going to hell for worshiping false gods to that she was going to hell for having children out of wedlock and they would go there too and it just got worse from there. at one point she even said that my friends children should be taken from her by families in the church so they could be saved from her wicked ways. my friend left hysterical. i was so in shock. i could not believe that someone who calls themselves christian could behave in such a manner. needless to say, they denied her the help.



 


Not Without Panties

billsfan1104
by Jules on Aug. 27, 2013 at 8:53 AM
1 mom liked this
So are you sayin only "right-wingers" go to church??
And also they have done studies where so-called "right-wingers", are very charitable. What an insult to many conservatives for you to say that.


Quoting parentalrights1:

I would hate to have to rely on a bunch of right wingers to be charitable haha
NWP
by guerrilla girl on Aug. 27, 2013 at 8:54 AM

We agree on this.....but religious charities are a great supplement and certainly have their place in our society.

Quoting snookyfritz:

I don't believe churches are the best venue.  I believe the government has the best system and means of services delivered without prejudice.


Not Without Panties

billsfan1104
by Jules on Aug. 27, 2013 at 8:58 AM
Catholic Charities has many programs to include substance abuse counseling, regular counseling and so forth. They also help women get out of domestic violence situations by helping them with apartments, day care, food and so forth. My friend got help through them.
They are a wonderful organization that helps EVERYONE of any faith, beliefs and even gay people. It's too bad that many people don't know this, and that they bash them, because they are affiliated with the Catholic Church. And they really don't get much from the government. The money the get to give out these devices is raised through our churches.


Quoting NWP:

Very interesting! I'm actually not surprised at the results of your experiment.

However I was completely unaware that CC uses taxpayer funds to help the poor. That strikes me as odd....

Quoting Della529:

 No, one doesn't have to be Catholic, but when requesting assistance with bills (housing, utilities) they do have to bring proof of the bill and proof of income.  This is because of government funding (which was increased under the Obama administration) and the requirement to account for where the money is distributed.


I did an experiment when my oldest dd was an infant.  I dressed us both in raggedy clothes and went to various churches looking for "help".  The only ones that really offered any kind of real "help" were the Catholics, the Methodists, and Jews (Jewish Family & Community Services).  I was really appalled by the response from our mega-Baptist church and smaller Protestant denominations.  They were more interested in getting us into church and "saving" our souls. 


And before anyone jumps on the bash bandwagon - I didn't need help or accept it.  I simply wanted to verify for myself something my father had said about Catholicism, namely that it was the most generous.


Quoting candlegal:


I would bet that it was the St. Vincent de Paul Society.  Most Catholic Churches have one and they will help anyone in the neighborhood.   You don't have to be Catholic.  They will help with your bills and give you food to feed your family.


Quoting weirdkids:


catholic charities seems to be more open to all walks of life. at least from my exeriance. a close friend of mine went through some rough times due to a bad choice in a roommate. she went through every avenue. her power was about to get shut off because the roommate said he was paying the bill and as it turns out he didnt pay it for almost 6 mo. she couldnt afford to pay it by the time she found out and was already behind on other bills trying to play catch up thanks to roommate. she had 3 small kids and one of them was under a year. she went and applied everywhere for assistance and the only people that would help were Catholic Cherities. i went with her for her appointment. it was interesting but not once overwhelming. the priest was very sweet. asked where our faith lied and we were honest with him. we told him we were pagan. unlike some christian denominations there was no "you are going to hell unless you give your heart to jesus, come get saved with us" (long story) hekinda got that interested look and started asking questions. we sat there an hour past the appointment time just chatting and comparing practices.


now one of the first places she tried was a baptist church. they were aweful. (** i mean no offence to anyone, it was just OUR experiance with the one particular church**) it started out normal. income check verifications, all that fun stuff. questions on what the money was for and what had happened to get that way etc. then it started. first was "well why doesnt your church help you?"so she told the woman that she and her family were pagan. the woman looked like her heart stopped. then the shit hit the fan. that woman went off on her for everything from going to hell for worshiping false gods to that she was going to hell for having children out of wedlock and they would go there too and it just got worse from there. at one point she even said that my friends children should be taken from her by families in the church so they could be saved from her wicked ways. my friend left hysterical. i was so in shock. i could not believe that someone who calls themselves christian could behave in such a manner. needless to say, they denied her the help.






 


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