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For those who feel church charities should/could replace welfare

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How would that work, exactly? 

Would one need to be a member?

If not, what would be the eligibility criteria specifically (other than generic "need")?

what services/help would be provided and to who? ( other than the generic "whatever they need")

how would the church reach out to those in need? Would the needy need to come beg?

if so, would there be a standard for eligibility and services that all church charities would be forced to meet or would the needy person need to go begging at multiple churches to find a "fit" during their time of need?

could the church turn down someone asking for help if the church does not approve of them for any reason? Like a gay married couple in need? 

Im not wanting a bash post... I am just wondering how this would work exactly....

Not Without Panties

by on Aug. 27, 2013 at 12:22 AM
Replies (41-50):
illinoismommy83
by Bronze Member on Aug. 27, 2013 at 8:59 AM

Why wouldn't it be? If their job cannot pay the bills, they obviously could benefit from some job training to help them get ahead. 

Quoting kidlover2:

Would this be a requirement for the people on welfare who already have a job?

Quoting illinoismommy83:

I think job training should be a mandatory part of welfare. DHS could partner with local trade schools and mandate (free) job training if you want to collect welfare. That way you will have some sort of skill to help you get off welfare.

There is no reason for church's to pick up the slack. What happened to taking personal responsibility?


NWP
by guerrilla girl on Aug. 27, 2013 at 8:59 AM

Thanks for answering.

I believe the answer for your second paragraph actually lies with increased access to high quality free public  education, and that we should be pouring money into public education pre-K through post grad, for this very reason. But that is just my POV.

As for your church requirements, define "need" and how this "need" is qualified...I see this listed A LOT and one of the reasons I mentioned the "generic need" in my OP. That is a very very subjective requirement.

Quoting yourspecialkid:

 I don't think churches should completely replace...but can I answer anyway?

I think the govt should maintain a safety net...that is a safety net...not the providing of all basic necessities.  People lose pride in themselves when they can't provide for themselves.  This lack of esteem fuels poverty...imho of course.

Churches (by church I mean a religious organization..not just Christians) cared for the poor long before the governments of the world started doing it.  I do think churches are a great tool.  The church charities I donate too and/or have worked with have one criteria, need.  They also deliver without the red tape and high overhead the government has.

I think a mixed approach works best.


Not Without Panties

NWP
by guerrilla girl on Aug. 27, 2013 at 9:02 AM

If someone comes back week after week with proof of need, will they continue to be served?

Quoting candlegal:

Of course they want some kind of proof.   Their resources are limited adn they want to make sure they are giving to those that really need it.  If they didn't require something, the same people would be coming back week after week after week.

Quoting Della529:

 No, one doesn't have to be Catholic, but when requesting assistance with bills (housing, utilities) they do have to bring proof of the bill and proof of income.  This is because of government funding (which was increased under the Obama administration) and the requirement to account for where the money is distributed.

I did an experiment when my oldest dd was an infant.  I dressed us both in raggedy clothes and went to various churches looking for "help".  The only ones that really offered any kind of real "help" were the Catholics, the Methodists, and Jews (Jewish Family & Community Services).  I was really appalled by the response from our mega-Baptist church and smaller Protestant denominations.  They were more interested in getting us into church and "saving" our souls. 

And before anyone jumps on the bash bandwagon - I didn't need help or accept it.  I simply wanted to verify for myself something my father had said about Catholicism, namely that it was the most generous.

Quoting candlegal:

I would bet that it was the St. Vincent de Paul Society.  Most Catholic Churches have one and they will help anyone in the neighborhood.   You don't have to be Catholic.  They will help with your bills and give you food to feed your family.

Quoting weirdkids:

catholic charities seems to be more open to all walks of life. at least from my exeriance. a close friend of mine went through some rough times due to a bad choice in a roommate. she went through every avenue. her power was about to get shut off because the roommate said he was paying the bill and as it turns out he didnt pay it for almost 6 mo. she couldnt afford to pay it by the time she found out and was already behind on other bills trying to play catch up thanks to roommate. she had 3 small kids and one of them was under a year. she went and applied everywhere for assistance and the only people that would help were Catholic Cherities. i went with her for her appointment. it was interesting but not once overwhelming. the priest was very sweet. asked where our faith lied and we were honest with him. we told him we were pagan. unlike some christian denominations there was no "you are going to hell unless you give your heart to jesus, come get saved with us" (long story) hekinda got that interested look and started asking questions. we sat there an hour past the appointment time just chatting and comparing practices.

now one of the first places she tried was a baptist church. they were aweful. (** i mean no offence to anyone, it was just OUR experiance with the one particular church**) it started out normal. income check verifications, all that fun stuff. questions on what the money was for and what had happened to get that way etc. then it started. first was "well why doesnt your church help you?"so she told the woman that she and her family were pagan. the woman looked like her heart stopped. then the shit hit the fan. that woman went off on her for everything from going to hell for worshiping false gods to that she was going to hell for having children out of wedlock and they would go there too and it just got worse from there. at one point she even said that my friends children should be taken from her by families in the church so they could be saved from her wicked ways. my friend left hysterical. i was so in shock. i could not believe that someone who calls themselves christian could behave in such a manner. needless to say, they denied her the help.



 



Not Without Panties

Della529
by Matlock on Aug. 27, 2013 at 9:02 AM

Well, that's a matter of semantics.  I'd say CRS and CCUSA are both charitable orgs operated under the umbrella of the CC.

True.  I have never witnessed a Catholic prosletizing in the manner I have other denominations, but moreso like you said.

Quoting snookyfritz:

Well, honestly the Catholic church isn't a charitable organization, nor is any other chuch.  Their first responsibility is to spread the gospel.  Often non Catholic church take it as a direct order.  Catholics tend to help with the grace of Christ and hope that the person will continue to come and feel the love of God and the church through usIt's different approaches to what exactly spreading the Gospel is that's the problem

 

Quoting Della529:

 No, one doesn't have to be Catholic, but when requesting assistance with bills (housing, utilities) they do have to bring proof of the bill and proof of income.  This is because of government funding (which was increased under the Obama administration) and the requirement to account for where the money is distributed.

I did an experiment when my oldest dd was an infant.  I dressed us both in raggedy clothes and went to various churches looking for "help".  The only ones that really offered any kind of real "help" were the Catholics, the Methodists, and Jews (Jewish Family & Community Services).  I was really appalled by the response from our mega-Baptist church and smaller Protestant denominations.  They were more interested in getting us into church and "saving" our souls. 

And before anyone jumps on the bash bandwagon - I didn't need help or accept it.  I simply wanted to verify for myself something my father had said about Catholicism, namely that it was the most generous.

Quoting candlegal:

I would bet that it was the St. Vincent de Paul Society.  Most Catholic Churches have one and they will help anyone in the neighborhood.   You don't have to be Catholic.  They will help with your bills and give you food to feed your family.

Quoting weirdkids:

catholic charities seems to be more open to all walks of life. at least from my exeriance. a close friend of mine went through some rough times due to a bad choice in a roommate. she went through every avenue. her power was about to get shut off because the roommate said he was paying the bill and as it turns out he didnt pay it for almost 6 mo. she couldnt afford to pay it by the time she found out and was already behind on other bills trying to play catch up thanks to roommate. she had 3 small kids and one of them was under a year. she went and applied everywhere for assistance and the only people that would help were Catholic Cherities. i went with her for her appointment. it was interesting but not once overwhelming. the priest was very sweet. asked where our faith lied and we were honest with him. we told him we were pagan. unlike some christian denominations there was no "you are going to hell unless you give your heart to jesus, come get saved with us" (long story) hekinda got that interested look and started asking questions. we sat there an hour past the appointment time just chatting and comparing practices.

now one of the first places she tried was a baptist church. they were aweful. (** i mean no offence to anyone, it was just OUR experiance with the one particular church**) it started out normal. income check verifications, all that fun stuff. questions on what the money was for and what had happened to get that way etc. then it started. first was "well why doesnt your church help you?"so she told the woman that she and her family were pagan. the woman looked like her heart stopped. then the shit hit the fan. that woman went off on her for everything from going to hell for worshiping false gods to that she was going to hell for having children out of wedlock and they would go there too and it just got worse from there. at one point she even said that my friends children should be taken from her by families in the church so they could be saved from her wicked ways. my friend left hysterical. i was so in shock. i could not believe that someone who calls themselves christian could behave in such a manner. needless to say, they denied her the help.

 


 

 

 

 

NWP
by guerrilla girl on Aug. 27, 2013 at 9:04 AM

I understand that individual churches can offer help, but am wondering how this would work on a large scale...do you have any specifics about the points asked in the OP?

Quoting mom2the.rescue:

At our old house, our church had an outreach center and asked no questions when people needed things.  The people I know that went there for help weren't religious and didn't know any of the people....they just knew there was help.  

I donated extra stuff I had and the school had special days where kids brought in donations and they could wear casual clothes.  I doubt there was enough to replace the foodstamps or assistance the people in the area were on...but maybe if every church did that there would have been.


Not Without Panties

NWP
by guerrilla girl on Aug. 27, 2013 at 9:07 AM

Our church used to distribute the Angel Food program. It was obvious that the meats given were sub-standard...example: the boneless chicken breast pieces were obviously the trimmed sinewy parts that processing plants discard. And then the big scandal came out how the family was making millions off of that program. I believe they were one of the biggest distributors out there.

Quoting yourspecialkid:

 I have volunteered at food pantries in several states.  I have never seen one give out outdated food.  That is thrown out.  Perhaps this is a misconception.

 


Not Without Panties

RandRMomma
by Maya on Aug. 27, 2013 at 9:07 AM
I agree. I don't trust organized religion.

Quoting BethanyJ:

I think that churches replacing welfare/public assistance programs would be close to unconstitutional due to the separation of church and state mandates.  NO church should ever be in charge of deciding who they will and will not extend charity to.  There is far too much bias in organized religion and far too much "blame the victim for their circumstances" mentality.  I find that people who are heavily involved in organized religion tend to be very closed minded and frankly, ignorant; they are sometimes racist and sexist as well.  

With that said, I think public assistance should be streamlined and made more effective to encourage people to become independent of welfare.  That is NOT, however, a job for religion.  EVER!

NWP
by guerrilla girl on Aug. 27, 2013 at 9:08 AM
2 moms liked this

Plus it pisses me off when they are forced to throw out deer meat contributions.

Quoting yourspecialkid:

 I have volunteered at food pantries in several states.  I have never seen one give out outdated food.  That is thrown out.  Perhaps this is a misconception.

 


Not Without Panties

NWP
by guerrilla girl on Aug. 27, 2013 at 9:10 AM

It already is for most programs. I used to work for social services in Texas back in the 90s and my job was to monitor the welfare folks through their job training and education programs.

Quoting illinoismommy83:

I think job training should be a mandatory part of welfare. DHS could partner with local trade schools and mandate (free) job training if you want to collect welfare. That way you will have some sort of skill to help you get off welfare.

There is no reason for church's to pick up the slack. What happened to taking personal responsibility?


Not Without Panties

candlegal
by Judy on Aug. 27, 2013 at 9:11 AM
1 mom liked this

If the need is there, absolutely.  We have a food pantry set up where people can come week after week to get the things they need.  We also keep diapers and paper goods stocked, for those that need that.   Laundry detergent, soaps,etc.

Quoting NWP:

If someone comes back week after week with proof of need, will they continue to be served?

Quoting candlegal:

Of course they want some kind of proof.   Their resources are limited adn they want to make sure they are giving to those that really need it.  If they didn't require something, the same people would be coming back week after week after week.

Quoting Della529:

 No, one doesn't have to be Catholic, but when requesting assistance with bills (housing, utilities) they do have to bring proof of the bill and proof of income.  This is because of government funding (which was increased under the Obama administration) and the requirement to account for where the money is distributed.

I did an experiment when my oldest dd was an infant.  I dressed us both in raggedy clothes and went to various churches looking for "help".  The only ones that really offered any kind of real "help" were the Catholics, the Methodists, and Jews (Jewish Family & Community Services).  I was really appalled by the response from our mega-Baptist church and smaller Protestant denominations.  They were more interested in getting us into church and "saving" our souls. 

And before anyone jumps on the bash bandwagon - I didn't need help or accept it.  I simply wanted to verify for myself something my father had said about Catholicism, namely that it was the most generous.

Quoting candlegal:

I would bet that it was the St. Vincent de Paul Society.  Most Catholic Churches have one and they will help anyone in the neighborhood.   You don't have to be Catholic.  They will help with your bills and give you food to feed your family.

Quoting weirdkids:

catholic charities seems to be more open to all walks of life. at least from my exeriance. a close friend of mine went through some rough times due to a bad choice in a roommate. she went through every avenue. her power was about to get shut off because the roommate said he was paying the bill and as it turns out he didnt pay it for almost 6 mo. she couldnt afford to pay it by the time she found out and was already behind on other bills trying to play catch up thanks to roommate. she had 3 small kids and one of them was under a year. she went and applied everywhere for assistance and the only people that would help were Catholic Cherities. i went with her for her appointment. it was interesting but not once overwhelming. the priest was very sweet. asked where our faith lied and we were honest with him. we told him we were pagan. unlike some christian denominations there was no "you are going to hell unless you give your heart to jesus, come get saved with us" (long story) hekinda got that interested look and started asking questions. we sat there an hour past the appointment time just chatting and comparing practices.

now one of the first places she tried was a baptist church. they were aweful. (** i mean no offence to anyone, it was just OUR experiance with the one particular church**) it started out normal. income check verifications, all that fun stuff. questions on what the money was for and what had happened to get that way etc. then it started. first was "well why doesnt your church help you?"so she told the woman that she and her family were pagan. the woman looked like her heart stopped. then the shit hit the fan. that woman went off on her for everything from going to hell for worshiping false gods to that she was going to hell for having children out of wedlock and they would go there too and it just got worse from there. at one point she even said that my friends children should be taken from her by families in the church so they could be saved from her wicked ways. my friend left hysterical. i was so in shock. i could not believe that someone who calls themselves christian could behave in such a manner. needless to say, they denied her the help.



 




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