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The Education or Miseducation Of Children, It's Up To You....

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j0wWCPW


This page is from a third grade worksheet from a private religious school in Florida.

We recently had a long discussion about the rights of parents to be able to choose their children's education.  I bring this here in light of that discussion.

First, is there anyone who thinks these questions make logical scientific sense and are appropriate for children to be learning?

Second, given that parents are paying to send their children to this school, and they are being miseducated, do we still think that all parents get to choose what their children learn and that there shouldn't even be minimum standards?

I look forward to an interesting debate.  :-)

by on Dec. 4, 2013 at 11:14 AM
Replies (31-40):
furbabymum
by Gold Member on Dec. 4, 2013 at 11:43 AM

 Well they do. There are certain sections of the population that do that. I almost feel like this could lead into common core talk.

Quoting romalove:


Quoting LNLMommy:


Quoting romalove:


Quoting LNLMommy:

I would never "pay" for this type of education for my children. I believe in God but the last two questions make no sense at all. You HAVE to believe in God in order to believe in gravity? What in the world does one have to do with the other. In my opinion, this type of "learning" is what keeps the divide between Christians and Non-Christians going. It teaches children intolerance and it's not very God like at all. 

I understand your position here.

But I think I'm trying to ask a larger question, and it doesn't really have to do with religion at all.  

I am piggy-backing off the German family that was trying to seek asylum in America because Germany wouldn't allow them to homeschool.  There was a vigorous debate that parental choice in educating their children was a "human right".

When I came across this (disclosure:  one of my FB friends had this as a share from a link they liked) it came to mind immediately, and I wanted to talk about it because I think this is a case of competing rights.

Yes, parents have a right to educate their children as they see fit.

But I think children have the right to a good education.  I don't think this, if it's any indication of what they are being taught, fits that bill.

So in a case of competing interests, who wins?

That is a complex question-I did not see the thread on the German parents. I guess my position would be, even though I don't agree with what's being taught, the parents have the ultimate right to educate their children how they see fit. I remember watching some special on TV about extreme parenting. One set of parents were "tiger parents" while another set of parents believed in the "unschooling" method which was basically child led. One little boy was very interested in Astronomy and dressed up like an astronaut so the parents focused on teaching him all about that subject. My husband commented that I could never allow my kids to do that and he was right. That to me is not a good education but I would never take that right away from his parents.  

What about a parent who believed in strict gender roles and decided that the girls only needed to learn to cook and clean, not read or write or do math, but the boys could learn those things?

Would you still think that the parent had the right to do that to their child?

 

daughteroftruth
by on Dec. 4, 2013 at 11:44 AM

 Question 4 is not even a question.  Its a statement, a statement saying that people who do not believe in God cannot explain gravity... which is a lie. 

Hell, the rest of the questions are not really that accurate either.. Without gravity we would... be pulled into outer space?

Quoting tanyainmizzou:

See, you think question number 4 is a lie.   Millions would disagree.  Neither can prove it correct. 

Quoting romalove:


Quoting tanyainmizzou:

And here we go.

 

Yes, parents should be able to send their kids to this school and nothing should be done about it.   They want a religious based education and they are willing to pay for it.

 

So there shouldn't be standards?

You should be able to teach your kids lies, such as this little worksheet has on it?

Or you should be able to give your child an intensive in knitting and nothing else because you assume they will grow up to make sweaters?

 

 

bluerooffarm
by Bronze Member on Dec. 4, 2013 at 11:44 AM


Quoting romalove:


Quoting tanyainmizzou:

See, you think question number 4 is a lie.   Millions would disagree.  Neither can prove it correct. 

Quoting romalove:


Quoting tanyainmizzou:

And here we go.


Yes, parents should be able to send their kids to this school and nothing should be done about it.   They want a religious based education and they are willing to pay for it.


So there shouldn't be standards?

You should be able to teach your kids lies, such as this little worksheet has on it?

Or you should be able to give your child an intensive in knitting and nothing else because you assume they will grow up to make sweaters?


WHAT???

Number four says that people who don't believe in God don't believe in gravity.

I don't believe in God.

I believe gravity exists.

I just proved it completely wrong.

I'm speechless over your response here.


Number 4 does not state that those who do not believe in God do not believe in gravity.  That answer was marked wrong.  The answer that they cannot explain gravity was the one considered correct on the test.  Just pointing that out.  

romalove
by Roma on Dec. 4, 2013 at 11:44 AM


Quoting LNLMommy:


Quoting romalove:


Quoting LNLMommy:


Quoting romalove:


Quoting LNLMommy:

I would never "pay" for this type of education for my children. I believe in God but the last two questions make no sense at all. You HAVE to believe in God in order to believe in gravity? What in the world does one have to do with the other. In my opinion, this type of "learning" is what keeps the divide between Christians and Non-Christians going. It teaches children intolerance and it's not very God like at all. 

I understand your position here.

But I think I'm trying to ask a larger question, and it doesn't really have to do with religion at all.  

I am piggy-backing off the German family that was trying to seek asylum in America because Germany wouldn't allow them to homeschool.  There was a vigorous debate that parental choice in educating their children was a "human right".

When I came across this (disclosure:  one of my FB friends had this as a share from a link they liked) it came to mind immediately, and I wanted to talk about it because I think this is a case of competing rights.

Yes, parents have a right to educate their children as they see fit.

But I think children have the right to a good education.  I don't think this, if it's any indication of what they are being taught, fits that bill.

So in a case of competing interests, who wins?

That is a complex question-I did not see the thread on the German parents. I guess my position would be, even though I don't agree with what's being taught, the parents have the ultimate right to educate their children how they see fit. I remember watching some special on TV about extreme parenting. One set of parents were "tiger parents" while another set of parents believed in the "unschooling" method which was basically child led. One little boy was very interested in Astronomy and dressed up like an astronaut so the parents focused on teaching him all about that subject. My husband commented that I could never allow my kids to do that and he was right. That to me is not a good education but I would never take that right away from his parents.  

What about a parent who believed in strict gender roles and decided that the girls only needed to learn to cook and clean, not read or write or do math, but the boys could learn those things?

Would you still think that the parent had the right to do that to their child?

I do. I don't think there is one universal way that we all have to follow when it comes to child rearing. Again, I don't agree with that type of "education" but I don't think that the Government or anyone else should be able to dictate what parents choose for their children. 

I think there has to be some sort of happy medium, where parents can choose how their child is educated but that there must be minimum standards maintained, whether at public, private or homeschool.

I think sometimes the debates come down to that parents get to choose everything, no matter how detrimental it is to children, and I think children are important enough to be protected from parents who would do things to their child's detriment.

Children are not there for "us", they are unique individuals and should be afforded protections that ensure they are well cared for, in all areas.

furbabymum
by Gold Member on Dec. 4, 2013 at 11:45 AM

 I disagree. It does not have to be science or God. In fact science can often bring people closer to God, though it just as often pushes them farther away.

Quoting stringtheory: Actually, even worse, the correct answer d) says people who dont believe can't explain gravity, though they do all the time and what they can't explain spurs the innovative spirits of scientists to explore and discover more (whereas, this student will not see any reason to answer questions in science with anything other than god, which prevents innovations like the internet, heart transplants, etc.).

Quoting romalove:


Quoting tanyainmizzou:

See, you think question number 4 is a lie.   Millions would disagree.  Neither can prove it correct. 

Quoting romalove:


Quoting tanyainmizzou:

And here we go.

 

Yes, parents should be able to send their kids to this school and nothing should be done about it.   They want a religious based education and they are willing to pay for it.

 

So there shouldn't be standards?

You should be able to teach your kids lies, such as this little worksheet has on it?

Or you should be able to give your child an intensive in knitting and nothing else because you assume they will grow up to make sweaters?

 

WHAT???

Number four says that people who don't believe in God don't believe in gravity.

I don't believe in God.

I believe gravity exists.

I just proved it completely wrong.

I'm speechless over your response here.

 

tanyainmizzou
by on Dec. 4, 2013 at 11:45 AM

You think it is a lie.  They do not because they believe God is behind everything.

Quoting daughteroftruth:

 Question 4 is not even a question.  Its a statement, a statement saying that people who do not believe in God cannot explain gravity... which is a lie. 

Hell, the rest of the questions are not really that accurate either.. Without gravity we would... be pulled into outer space?

Quoting tanyainmizzou:

See, you think question number 4 is a lie.   Millions would disagree.  Neither can prove it correct. 

Quoting romalove:


Quoting tanyainmizzou:

And here we go.


Yes, parents should be able to send their kids to this school and nothing should be done about it.   They want a religious based education and they are willing to pay for it.


So there shouldn't be standards?

You should be able to teach your kids lies, such as this little worksheet has on it?

Or you should be able to give your child an intensive in knitting and nothing else because you assume they will grow up to make sweaters?


 


LuvmyAiden
by on Dec. 4, 2013 at 11:47 AM

I think parents should ALWAYS have the choice of how their child is educated. Period! No ifs ands or buts. If they choose sub par education so be it, it is a parents job to pick a good school that shares their values or to educated their kids themselves.

daughteroftruth
by on Dec. 4, 2013 at 11:50 AM

 No, it is a lie.  The statement says that those that do not believe in God cannot explain gravity. Yes we can, just because you do not agree with our explanation of gravity, does not mean that we cannot explain it. 

And if this school simply leaves the explanation of gravity as "god" just holds everything in place without explaining the actual concepts of physics, then they are failing those children.

Quoting tanyainmizzou:

You think it is a lie.  They do not because they believe God is behind everything.

Quoting daughteroftruth:

 Question 4 is not even a question.  Its a statement, a statement saying that people who do not believe in God cannot explain gravity... which is a lie. 

Hell, the rest of the questions are not really that accurate either.. Without gravity we would... be pulled into outer space?

Quoting tanyainmizzou:

See, you think question number 4 is a lie.   Millions would disagree.  Neither can prove it correct. 

Quoting romalove:


Quoting tanyainmizzou:

And here we go.

 

Yes, parents should be able to send their kids to this school and nothing should be done about it.   They want a religious based education and they are willing to pay for it.

 

So there shouldn't be standards?

You should be able to teach your kids lies, such as this little worksheet has on it?

Or you should be able to give your child an intensive in knitting and nothing else because you assume they will grow up to make sweaters?

 

 

 

 

romalove
by Roma on Dec. 4, 2013 at 11:51 AM
1 mom liked this


Quoting LuvmyAiden:

I think parents should ALWAYS have the choice of how their child is educated. Period! No ifs ands or buts. If they choose sub par education so be it, it is a parents job to pick a good school that shares their values or to educated their kids themselves.

I understand this position.

I hate it.

It means parents are more important than children.

Sisteract
by Whoopie on Dec. 4, 2013 at 11:51 AM

Even in Catholic school religion does not enter science classes- not in any class I took and I have a BS in Science from a RC University.

There needs to be a balance.

Let's face it- the extremely, fundamental religious are not educating their kids for higher education. They are educating girls to be homemakers and boys to follow in daddy's footsteps in whatever occupation...

Gravity is nowhere on their radar-

And for those folks, that is A-OK.

The kids are groomed and told what they will become- very "cult" like, if you ask me.

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