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"Angry Atheists?" ETA Link to article

Posted by on Dec. 10, 2013 at 6:56 AM
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1 mom liked this

Here's some interesting data.

According to the Washington Post of Aug. 2012,  5% of Americans say they are atheist. The same article says that 60% of Americans say they are "religious" (and the author puts quotes around that, not me).

Link: http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-08-13/national/35491519_1_new-atheism-atheist-groups-new-atheists

The article is about how atheism is on the rise in the U.S., but my point right  now is to show you the gap between these. Despite the rise (from 1%), consider what small percentage there still are of atheists.

I found it sort of humorous when I found a website called "Urban Dictionary" that had a definition of " internet atheist" that defined the term as, quote, "an angry atheist who trolls internet sites denouncing God". i don't know the credibility of said website, but that it exists and this term and definition exist, is sort of interesting and funny.

I'm thinking about all the self proclaimed atheists on CM. There certainly seems to be quite a few. Either CM is disproportionately followed by atheists, or the atheists here like to comment a lot, or ...I don't know...

your comments?

 

by on Dec. 10, 2013 at 6:56 AM
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Replies (1-10):
romalove
by Roma on Dec. 10, 2013 at 7:12 AM
29 moms liked this

You're all over the lot with this post.

The five percent that assert atheism are the hardest atheists.  There are a lot of people who are agnostic or "soft" atheists, some of which are still within the confines of a religion but just don't believe all or most of the tenets of the religion, some not believing in God.

The 60 percent religious figure is interesting, because I think what people are seeing isn't so much as a rise in atheism as a reduction in people who are truly religious.  That 60 percent figure was much higher previously.

I don't know ANY atheists who denounce God.  It would be like denouncing fairies or dragons.  You don't denounce that which you don't believe in.  

What I do see atheists denounce is religious intrusion into the governmental/public arena in America, which is supposed to be a secular nation even as it has a majority religious population.  

I think a lot of religious people cannot make those distinctions.

stringtheory
by Gold Member on Dec. 10, 2013 at 7:42 AM
12 moms liked this
There is a faction of vocal atheists right now for good reason. It assures closeted atheists that it is ok to be an atheist. The TRULY angry atheists aren't the majority, even on the internet. If an atheist gets angry, it is not necessarily because they are "bitter" or "militant," it is because there are legitimate reasons to be angry (pity from the religious, injustice and religious-based legislation, questioning of morality, anti-intellectualism, scientific illeteracy). I am a vocal atheist, yet I still get drowned out by angry religious folks on social networks railing about the pledge, our motto, keeping Christ in Christmas, school prayer, etc. There are many affirmative religious voices that speak out, too. I like that cafemom has vocal atheists. It is one of the few places I can be "out."
romalove
by Roma on Dec. 10, 2013 at 7:43 AM


Quoting stringtheory: There is a faction of vocal atheists right now for good reason. It assures closeted atheists that it is ok to be an atheist. The TRULY angry atheists aren't the majority, even on the internet. If an atheist gets angry, it is not necessarily because they are "bitter" or "militant," it is because there are legitimate reasons to be angry (pity from the religious, injustice and religious-based legislation, questioning of morality, anti-intellectualism, scientific illeteracy). I am a vocal atheist, yet I still get drowned out by angry religious folks on social networks railing about the pledge, our motto, keeping Christ in Christmas, school prayer, etc. There are many affirmative religious voices that speak out, too. I like that cafemom has vocal atheists. It is one of the few places I can be "out."

You are always "in" in my book.  :-)


buttersworth
by Silver Member on Dec. 10, 2013 at 7:46 AM
3 moms liked this

 

Quoting romalove:

You're all over the lot with this post.

No, not really. I used an article about something to illustrate my own point. Very simple.

The five percent that assert atheism are the hardest atheists. 

Is this your opinion, or have you read something? curious.

 There are a lot of people who are agnostic or "soft" atheists, some of which are still within the confines of a religion but just don't believe all or most of the tenets of the religion, some not believing in God.

The 60 percent religious figure is interesting, because I think what people are seeing isn't so much as a rise in atheism as a reduction in people who are truly religious.  Yes, that was what the article was saying. That 60 percent figure was much higher previously. Yes, it was 73 percent according the the article. I've heard other figures recently like 75% vs the 60%.

I don't know ANY atheists who denounce God. 

LOL!!!! either way you look at it, whether you see God as a fairy or a unicorn, or whether you know he's real and deny Him, you are by definition denouncing Him. Unless you believe, you denounce.

That's not religious lingo, that's just plain use of semantics. Are you really gonna bring yourself down to arguing what semantics are now acceptable? It means what it means. I'm sorry, but that made me laugh out loud where my kids were asking what I'm laughing at, which doens't happen often from something i read. Thanks for the humor!

 It would be like denouncing fairies or dragons.  You don't denounce that which you don't believe in.  

What I do see atheists denounce is religious intrusion into the governmental/public arena in America,

yeah, well I sort of agree with you on some points there. but only because I don't want to see religion being tainted by the state, or politics. which it actually is with bush's faith based initiatives still in place, and pastors seem to be selling out. you also have some propaganda about politics slowly and subtley submersed in liturgy especially the bigger denominations with corruptible hierarchies. for this reason a lot of people are being turned off and turned away.

it is just my opinion, but that would suggest to me the rise in agnosticisim because agnosticism is not the lack of spiritual life, but sort of a recognition of it with a denouncing of organized religious institutions.

which is supposed to be a secular nation even as it has a majority religious population.  

yes. are you alluding to my past post? I did pose some questions there and make some statements. Woven throughout the conversation i sort of alluded myself to what I think about that. I don't recall the Constitution referring to us as a 'secular' nation per se, but it does say our government is not supposed to endorse a religion. If we wanted to get more into that, I mean, I'd have to research too, what the Constitution means by the word "endorse". And I'm not a Constitutional lawyer. Although, I personally would prefer my religion not be ruled by the state, which is what happens in theocracies, where the leading religious person is also the political leader, such as at the Vatican.

And I'm the kind of Christian who doesn't want to force people to be a religion. Have discussions, yes...coerce, no. God knows what's in your heart. A person who does not voluntarilly have a change of heart  toward God and is forced to be a particular religion is just as much as one who has no religion. I think, and my opinion is, that there probably are a very very small minority, that would want to force anyone to be a part of their religion. Usually when they do, it's because their organization will make money off of them for joining.

I think a lot of religious people cannot make those distinctions.

Oh, I don't think that's the case at all. i think I know why some may force the issue. There are people who truly feel that our country is no longer under God's favor because we have become an immoral society. Sorry to say, I agree with that sentiment. However, you cannot legislate morality. And you can't force people to recognize God. They also do it with individuals in mind. I for one am really sad for people who don't believe in God. I say that not as an insult to you, not to be catty, but just as a matter of fact about my feelings. I know God, I love God, and I believe in both sides of the afterlife. Also, I think a person's lifetime while they live on earth is better when they believe in God. There is a joy and satisfaction for different things, a naturally evolving denial of the material and superficial. Not that lives are perfect, but you have something to strengthen you through it.

It's really not a true-fitting stereotype, I think, that all Christians are ignorant rednecks living in the Biblebelt and stuck on tv -type, carpet bagger evangelists. There is some of that. There are also some sincere, conscientious people who live quiet lives knowing and believing, and cling to that 'to each their own' philosophy. I would say that would probably be the predominant type of Christian, what i see.

 

stringtheory
by Gold Member on Dec. 10, 2013 at 7:48 AM
2 moms liked this
Aw, thanks :)

Quoting romalove:


Quoting stringtheory: There is a faction of vocal atheists right now for good reason. It assures closeted atheists that it is ok to be an atheist. The TRULY angry atheists aren't the majority, even on the internet. If an atheist gets angry, it is not necessarily because they are "bitter" or "militant," it is because there are legitimate reasons to be angry (pity from the religious, injustice and religious-based legislation, questioning of morality, anti-intellectualism, scientific illeteracy). I am a vocal atheist, yet I still get drowned out by angry religious folks on social networks railing about the pledge, our motto, keeping Christ in Christmas, school prayer, etc. There are many affirmative religious voices that speak out, too. I like that cafemom has vocal atheists. It is one of the few places I can be "out."

You are always "in" in my book.  :-)


buttersworth
by Silver Member on Dec. 10, 2013 at 7:51 AM
1 mom liked this

 

Quoting stringtheory: There is a faction of vocal atheists right now for good reason.

So are you saying that it's true?

You must be. You are justifying it right here.

It assures closeted atheists that it is ok to be an atheist. The TRULY angry atheists aren't the majority, even on the internet. If an atheist gets angry, it is not necessarily because they are "bitter" or "militant," it is because there are legitimate reasons to be angry (pity from the religious, injustice and religious-based legislation, questioning of morality, anti-intellectualism, scientific illeteracy). I am a vocal atheist, yet I still get drowned out by angry religious folks on social networks railing about the pledge, our motto, keeping Christ in Christmas, school prayer, etc. There are many affirmative religious voices that speak out, too. I like that cafemom has vocal atheists. It is one of the few places I can be "out."

So what is separating your tactics from that of a religious proselyte? For instance, Jehovah's Witness prosletyze. You are doing the same thing.

 

romalove
by Roma on Dec. 10, 2013 at 7:55 AM
7 moms liked this


Quoting buttersworth:


Quoting romalove:

You're all over the lot with this post.

No, not really. I used an article about something to illustrate my own point. Very simple.

The five percent that assert atheism are the hardest atheists. 

Is this your opinion, or have you read something? curious.

 There are a lot of people who are agnostic or "soft" atheists, some of which are still within the confines of a religion but just don't believe all or most of the tenets of the religion, some not believing in God.

The 60 percent religious figure is interesting, because I think what people are seeing isn't so much as a rise in atheism as a reduction in people who are truly religious.  Yes, that was what the article was saying. That 60 percent figure was much higher previously. Yes, it was 73 percent according the the article. I've heard other figures recently like 75% vs the 60%.

I don't know ANY atheists who denounce God. 

LOL!!!! either way you look at it, whether you see God as a fairy or a unicorn, or whether you know he's real and deny Him, you are by definition denouncing Him. Unless you believe, you denounce.

That's not religious lingo, that's just plain use of semantics. Are you really gonna bring yourself down to arguing what semantics are now acceptable? It means what it means. I'm sorry, but that made me laugh out loud where my kids were asking what I'm laughing at, which doens't happen often from something i read. Thanks for the humor!

 It would be like denouncing fairies or dragons.  You don't denounce that which you don't believe in.  

What I do see atheists denounce is religious intrusion into the governmental/public arena in America,

yeah, well I sort of agree with you on some points there. but only because I don't want to see religion being tainted by the state, or politics. which it actually is with bush's faith based initiatives still in place, and pastors seem to be selling out. you also have some propaganda about politics slowly and subtley submersed in liturgy especially the bigger denominations with corruptible hierarchies. for this reason a lot of people are being turned off and turned away.

it is just my opinion, but that would suggest to me the rise in agnosticisim because agnosticism is not the lack of spiritual life, but sort of a recognition of it with a denouncing of organized religious institutions.

which is supposed to be a secular nation even as it has a majority religious population.  

yes. are you alluding to my past post? I did pose some questions there and make some statements. Woven throughout the conversation i sort of alluded myself to what I think about that. I don't recall the Constitution referring to us as a 'secular' nation per se, but it does say our government is not supposed to endorse a religion. If we wanted to get more into that, I mean, I'd have to research too, what the Constitution means by the word "endorse". And I'm not a Constitutional lawyer. Although, I personally would prefer my religion not be ruled by the state, which is what happens in theocracies, where the leading religious person is also the political leader, such as at the Vatican.

And I'm the kind of Christian who doesn't want to force people to be a religion. Have discussions, yes...coerce, no. God knows what's in your heart. A person who does not voluntarilly have a change of heart  toward God and is forced to be a particular religion is just as much as one who has no religion. I think, and my opinion is, that there probably are a very very small minority, that would want to force anyone to be a part of their religion. Usually when they do, it's because their organization will make money off of them for joining.

I think a lot of religious people cannot make those distinctions.

Oh, I don't think that's the case at all. i think I know why some may force the issue. There are people who truly feel that our country is no longer under God's favor because we have become an immoral society. Sorry to say, I agree with that sentiment. However, you cannot legislate morality. And you can't force people to recognize God. They also do it with individuals in mind. I for one am really sad for people who don't believe in God. I say that not as an insult to you, not to be catty, but just as a matter of fact about my feelings. I know God, I love God, and I believe in both sides of the afterlife. Also, I think a person's lifetime while they live on earth is better when they believe in God. There is a joy and satisfaction for different things, a naturally evolving denial of the material and superficial. Not that lives are perfect, but you have something to strengthen you through it.

It's really not a true-fitting stereotype, I think, that all Christians are ignorant rednecks living in the Biblebelt and stuck on tv -type, carpet bagger evangelists. There is some of that. There are also some sincere, conscientious people who live quiet lives knowing and believing, and cling to that 'to each their own' philosophy. I would say that would probably be the predominant type of Christian, what i see.


What I turned pink.

I want to talk about that.

Here is a definition of "denounce":

de·nounce

  [dih-nouns]  Show IPA

verb (used with object), de·nounced, de·nounc·ing.
1.
to condemn or censure openly or publicly: to denounce a politician as morally corrupt.
2.
to make a formal accusation against, as to the police or in a court.
3.
to give formal notice of the termination or denial of (a treaty, pact, agreement, or the like).

There is nothing in any of this that would indicate simply not believing in something is "denouncing" it.  I have noticed though that you are not alone in ascribing things to atheists that do not exist.  I had a discussion with someone yesterday who stated that simply by not believing in God, atheists were hurting those who believed in God.  

This is all nonsense.  Not believing is not denouncing, it is simply not believing.
stringtheory
by Gold Member on Dec. 10, 2013 at 8:09 AM
4 moms liked this
Your statement about feeling sad is probably why many atheists are closeted. While you don't mean it to be insulting, people who are confident and fullfilled don't appreciate the sentiment because it is not accurate (NOT for a lack of confidence, but because one is basically being called a liar or being told they don't know true fulfillment; it is condescending). Its really one of the things that makes the nature of, at least Islam and Christianity (and a handful of cults), "bad." If you don't feel bad for the godless, you are not following your religion which calls you to save them...this can be simply insulting, or, it leads to violence (crusades, conquistadors, terrorism from Islamic terrorists). I can't tell my own family I don't believe because it is truly disturbing to them that they believe they will all be together eternally, while I won't be there. I don't like that Christianity makes it actually hurtful to my parents and grandparents for me to just BE an atheist.

Quoting buttersworth:

 


Quoting romalove:

You're all over the lot with this post.


No, not really. I used an article about something to illustrate my own point. Very simple.


The five percent that assert atheism are the hardest atheists. 


Is this your opinion, or have you read something? curious.


 There are a lot of people who are agnostic or "soft" atheists, some of which are still within the confines of a religion but just don't believe all or most of the tenets of the religion, some not believing in God.


The 60 percent religious figure is interesting, because I think what people are seeing isn't so much as a rise in atheism as a reduction in people who are truly religious.  Yes, that was what the article was saying. That 60 percent figure was much higher previously. Yes, it was 73 percent according the the article. I've heard other figures recently like 75% vs the 60%.


I don't know ANY atheists who denounce God. 


LOL!!!! either way you look at it, whether you see God as a fairy or a unicorn, or whether you know he's real and deny Him, you are by definition denouncing Him. Unless you believe, you denounce.


That's not religious lingo, that's just plain use of semantics. Are you really gonna bring yourself down to arguing what semantics are now acceptable? It means what it means. I'm sorry, but that made me laugh out loud where my kids were asking what I'm laughing at, which doens't happen often from something i read. Thanks for the humor!


 It would be like denouncing fairies or dragons.  You don't denounce that which you don't believe in.  


What I do see atheists denounce is religious intrusion into the governmental/public arena in America,


yeah, well I sort of agree with you on some points there. but only because I don't want to see religion being tainted by the state, or politics. which it actually is with bush's faith based initiatives still in place, and pastors seem to be selling out. you also have some propaganda about politics slowly and subtley submersed in liturgy especially the bigger denominations with corruptible hierarchies. for this reason a lot of people are being turned off and turned away.


it is just my opinion, but that would suggest to me the rise in agnosticisim because agnosticism is not the lack of spiritual life, but sort of a recognition of it with a denouncing of organized religious institutions.


which is supposed to be a secular nation even as it has a majority religious population.  


yes. are you alluding to my past post? I did pose some questions there and make some statements. Woven throughout the conversation i sort of alluded myself to what I think about that. I don't recall the Constitution referring to us as a 'secular' nation per se, but it does say our government is not supposed to endorse a religion. If we wanted to get more into that, I mean, I'd have to research too, what the Constitution means by the word "endorse". And I'm not a Constitutional lawyer. Although, I personally would prefer my religion not be ruled by the state, which is what happens in theocracies, where the leading religious person is also the political leader, such as at the Vatican.


And I'm the kind of Christian who doesn't want to force people to be a religion. Have discussions, yes...coerce, no. God knows what's in your heart. A person who does not voluntarilly have a change of heart  toward God and is forced to be a particular religion is just as much as one who has no religion. I think, and my opinion is, that there probably are a very very small minority, that would want to force anyone to be a part of their religion. Usually when they do, it's because their organization will make money off of them for joining.


I think a lot of religious people cannot make those distinctions.


Oh, I don't think that's the case at all. i think I know why some may force the issue. There are people who truly feel that our country is no longer under God's favor because we have become an immoral society. Sorry to say, I agree with that sentiment. However, you cannot legislate morality. And you can't force people to recognize God. They also do it with individuals in mind. I for one am really sad for people who don't believe in God. I say that not as an insult to you, not to be catty, but just as a matter of fact about my feelings. I know God, I love God, and I believe in both sides of the afterlife. Also, I think a person's lifetime while they live on earth is better when they believe in God. There is a joy and satisfaction for different things, a naturally evolving denial of the material and superficial. Not that lives are perfect, but you have something to strengthen you through it.


It's really not a true-fitting stereotype, I think, that all Christians are ignorant rednecks living in the Biblebelt and stuck on tv -type, carpet bagger evangelists. There is some of that. There are also some sincere, conscientious people who live quiet lives knowing and believing, and cling to that 'to each their own' philosophy. I would say that would probably be the predominant type of Christian, what i see.


 

romalove
by Roma on Dec. 10, 2013 at 8:13 AM


Quoting buttersworth:


Quoting stringtheory: There is a faction of vocal atheists right now for good reason.

So are you saying that it's true?

You must be. You are justifying it right here.

It assures closeted atheists that it is ok to be an atheist. The TRULY angry atheists aren't the majority, even on the internet. If an atheist gets angry, it is not necessarily because they are "bitter" or "militant," it is because there are legitimate reasons to be angry (pity from the religious, injustice and religious-based legislation, questioning of morality, anti-intellectualism, scientific illeteracy). I am a vocal atheist, yet I still get drowned out by angry religious folks on social networks railing about the pledge, our motto, keeping Christ in Christmas, school prayer, etc. There are many affirmative religious voices that speak out, too. I like that cafemom has vocal atheists. It is one of the few places I can be "out."

So what is separating your tactics from that of a religious proselyte? For instance, Jehovah's Witness prosletyze. You are doing the same thing.


What is wrong with atheists being vocal?


stringtheory
by Gold Member on Dec. 10, 2013 at 8:16 AM
2 moms liked this
Yes there are vocal atheists, why shouldn't there be? No, I do NOT prostyletize. That is one of the problems with your perception. My goal in vocalizing my atheism is not to recruit, like Christianity, which looks to save people who are not christian. When an atheist speaks out, is to encourage THOSE WHO ALREADY DON'T BELIEVE (sorry, mobile and can't italucize or underline) to be comfortable with their non-belief. It took me a long time to be comfortable with non belief in this culture, and it was vocal atheists that made me realize that my non-belief didn't on its own make me "bad." Can you understand that?

Quoting buttersworth:  

Quoting stringtheory: There is a faction of vocal atheists right now for good reason.
So are you saying that it's true?
You must be. You are justifying it right here.
It assures closeted atheists that it is ok to be an atheist. The TRULY angry atheists aren't the majority, even on the internet. If an atheist gets angry, it is not necessarily because they are "bitter" or "militant," it is because there are legitimate reasons to be angry (pity from the religious, injustice and religious-based legislation, questioning of morality, anti-intellectualism, scientific illeteracy). I am a vocal atheist, yet I still get drowned out by angry religious folks on social networks railing about the pledge, our motto, keeping Christ in Christmas, school prayer, etc. There are many affirmative religious voices that speak out, too. I like that cafemom has vocal atheists. It is one of the few places I can be "out."
So what is separating your tactics from that of a religious proselyte? For instance, Jehovah's Witness prosletyze. You are doing the same thing.
 
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