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When does self sufficiency become a threat?

Posted by on May. 13, 2014 at 9:23 AM
  • 52 Replies

I read an article today that claimed that the government has a big problem with self sustaining communities.  I wont source it because the site leaned awful far lol.  Even so, I still think its worthy of discussion.

Obviously if there is illegal activity within a compound it is a problem for the state and we have seen some highly publicized and even poorly played examples of this in recent history.  

The article I read started with gardening as an issue, towns fining gardeners and ordering the garden pulled.

Where between these issues, gardening and fully self sufficient compounds, would you feel that our rights end and the law should intervene?

Should going off the grid be illegal?

How far you go in life depends on your being: tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of both the weak and strong.  Because someday in life you would have been one or all of these.  GeorgeWashingtonCarver


by on May. 13, 2014 at 9:23 AM
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4evrinbluejeans
by KK on May. 13, 2014 at 9:27 AM
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The problem with extreme sources is they generally take things way outof context.  For example, the statements on people being forced to uproot their gardens.  In many of those situations it had to do with where the garden was placed and not the fact that they had a garden.  

Does the government have concern when people move into compounds?  Probably.  Do they really care if you live "off the grid"?  As long as you aren't stealing resources you do not have legitimate claim to, I doubt it.  

Clairwil
by Ruby Member on May. 13, 2014 at 9:32 AM
1 mom liked this


Quoting survivorinohio:

Should going off the grid be illegal?

Probably.   Because it will be the end of the nation state.

You've seen 3D printing technology?   Once a community has land to grow stuff, satellite internet connection, a river and solar power, they don't need to interact with anyone outside, except to pay taxes and vote.

And if they use the black market over the internet, and don't use banks, they can pretty much avoid taxes too.

EireLass
by Ruby Member on May. 13, 2014 at 1:22 PM
2 moms liked this
I live in a farming community. We have a few friends that are off the grid. Usually one in the home works outside the home.....so that is certainly contributing. But the off grid people also sell what they farm....again, contributing.
Avarah
by Member on May. 13, 2014 at 1:26 PM
8 moms liked this
I've got no beef with people who are self-sustaining. I do have a problem with people who live within the United States who want to proclaim themselves sovereign and not adhere to the laws of the territory in which they live.
oddgirl
by Bronze Member on May. 13, 2014 at 2:07 PM

I think it should be legal - but perhaps in approved area? I came across this story of a woman living inside city limits in a town in Florida who was "off the grid", but there are city codes as to what a resident can and cannot do in regards to having approved sewer service and water supply.  Some of it may be a money thing for the city, but there are probably also valid public health concerns:

Cape woman living "off the grid" challenged by city

Posted: Feb 21, 2014 2:58 PM PDT Updated: Feb 25, 2014 4:27 PM PDT
CAPE CORAL, FL -

A Cape Coral woman refuses to use city power and water. But now, she has a month to "plug in" or face the consequences. 

We met with the woman in a legal battle with the city to protect her way of life.

It's a lifestyle some can only afford to dream of living.

"If I could figure out how to do it, I would probably do it too," said Cape Coral resident Slyvia Lavandier. 

Robin Speronis figured out how to do it more than a year and a half ago.

"I'm choosing to live without being dependent on the system," said Speronis.

Speronis is living "off the grid" as she describes it.

"I never have to worry about that bill coming in," said Speronis.

No city power or water running through her house walls. Instead, she uses solar panels and treated rain water for survival.

It's a way of life that's she says is being challenged by city code enforcement.

"When this was brought to my attention I felt like I had to act. I felt like Cape Coral was intruding in the woman's lifestyle," said Todd Allen, Speronis' Attorney.

Allen took Speronis' case on for free.

On Thursday during a special hearing,  the two sides met to discuss the legality of her living arrangements.

There a special magistrate ruled Speronis was not guilty of not having a proper sewer or electrical system; but was guilty of not being hooked up to an approved water supply.

"What happened here is people don't talk to us or cooperate. We don't communicate then we are forced to use the legal tools at our disposal," said Frank Cassidy with Cape Coral Code Compliance.

City code officials say this isn't a case of singling out an individual, but making sure everyone follows the rules.

"In the whole scheme of things, its no different than the hundreds of cases we deal with all the time," said Cassidy.

Speronis now has a month to comply -- though she has no intention of giving in.

"I don't have to justify my life. They have to. That's the way our system of justice works. They have justify it. I don't," Speronis said.

http://www.nbc-2.com/story/24790572/cape-woman-living-of-the-grid-challenged-by-city#.U3JdtyjGAs0

stormcris
by Christy on May. 13, 2014 at 2:42 PM
4 moms liked this

It is a threat to the government. You don't control people who are self providing. I think at some point they need to get over the idea. It is sincerely a do as I say not as I do mentality with this. It is illegal to be self sustaining but it shouldn't be. They see it as an anarchist movement. What do you need government for if you provide for yourself? The idea of moneyless living really is not good for those in charge.

Momniscient
by Ruby Member on May. 13, 2014 at 2:48 PM
1 mom liked this

No.

My guess though is that most of those compounds off the grid ARE extremists hell bent on starting range wars with the govt. There is probably a high correlative factor there.

But Clair did have a good point as well. Isolation 'off the grid' doesn't seem to be a problem but what if Texas wants to go off the grid? I say let them lol but it is a problem for the US as a whole.

Roisin07
by Member on May. 13, 2014 at 2:56 PM
6 moms liked this

 I should have a right as an AMERICAN citizen to grow and provide my family with its needs. Period. The idea that is a threat is scary.

autodidact
by Platinum Member on May. 13, 2014 at 5:46 PM
1 mom liked this

I don't know if this is true, but someone commented on this article that she was NOT dealing "off grid" with her waste but dumping it into the sewer system while not paying for the service. 

Quoting oddgirl:

I think it should be legal - but perhaps in approved area? I came across this story of a woman living inside city limits in a town in Florida who was "off the grid", but there are city codes as to what a resident can and cannot do in regards to having approved sewer service and water supply.  Some of it may be a money thing for the city, but there are probably also valid public health concerns:

Cape woman living "off the grid" challenged by city

Posted: Feb 21, 2014 2:58 PM PDT Updated: Feb 25, 2014 4:27 PM PDT
CAPE CORAL, FL -

A Cape Coral woman refuses to use city power and water. But now, she has a month to "plug in" or face the consequences. 

We met with the woman in a legal battle with the city to protect her way of life.

It's a lifestyle some can only afford to dream of living.

"If I could figure out how to do it, I would probably do it too," said Cape Coral resident Slyvia Lavandier. 

Robin Speronis figured out how to do it more than a year and a half ago.

"I'm choosing to live without being dependent on the system," said Speronis.

Speronis is living "off the grid" as she describes it.

"I never have to worry about that bill coming in," said Speronis.

No city power or water running through her house walls. Instead, she uses solar panels and treated rain water for survival.

It's a way of life that's she says is being challenged by city code enforcement.

"When this was brought to my attention I felt like I had to act. I felt like Cape Coral was intruding in the woman's lifestyle," said Todd Allen, Speronis' Attorney.

Allen took Speronis' case on for free.

On Thursday during a special hearing,  the two sides met to discuss the legality of her living arrangements.

There a special magistrate ruled Speronis was not guilty of not having a proper sewer or electrical system; but was guilty of not being hooked up to an approved water supply.

"What happened here is people don't talk to us or cooperate. We don't communicate then we are forced to use the legal tools at our disposal," said Frank Cassidy with Cape Coral Code Compliance.

City code officials say this isn't a case of singling out an individual, but making sure everyone follows the rules.

"In the whole scheme of things, its no different than the hundreds of cases we deal with all the time," said Cassidy.

Speronis now has a month to comply -- though she has no intention of giving in.

"I don't have to justify my life. They have to. That's the way our system of justice works. They have justify it. I don't," Speronis said.

http://www.nbc-2.com/story/24790572/cape-woman-living-of-the-grid-challenged-by-city#.U3JdtyjGAs0


jcrew6
by Platinum Member on May. 13, 2014 at 6:46 PM

Should going off the grid be illegal?


No.  You are still paying property tax and usually min utilities. 

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