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Christian and Jewish women. I would love to ask you somethig

Posted by on Jun. 15, 2014 at 1:50 PM
  • 55 Replies
I've been reason a lot lately. I have been really getting into theological books and research as a summer project.
I came across something interesting today while reading. Lucifer did not exist until after Christianity was formed. There is a verse that was taken out of context and mistranslated.

answer: a term that described a king that fell from grace - NOT the "fall" that Christians believe.

Isaiah 14: 12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O day-star, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, that didst cast lots over the nations!

The fallen star the verse is talking about is the king of Babylon.
Nowhere in genesis is the snake named. And Job was faced with an adversary who was named Satan but was also called a son of God. http://www.mechon-mamre.org/e/et/et2701.htm


From why I have read and studied it seems to me that the founders of Christianity made Satan up.

Can I hear from some Christians and any Jewish moms about this topic?
by on Jun. 15, 2014 at 1:50 PM
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Replies (1-10):
gdiamante
by Silver Member on Jun. 15, 2014 at 2:11 PM
3 moms liked this

Raised Catholic, now Anglican, never heard anyone but Dante and Milton using the term Lucifer to refer to Satan. 

jobseeker
by Bronze Member on Jun. 15, 2014 at 2:28 PM
3 moms liked this

 I gather from your post that you either did not grow up in a religious household or that you have left the faith of your parents and are now researching Judeo-Christian concepts.

I cannot in my own owrds explain an answer to what you are asking.  mostly because it is worded in such a way that makes no sense to me.  If you believe in the true presence of evil personified, whether you call it 'satan' 'beelzibub','lucifer' or whatever, there is not a cut and dried answer to when it happened, mostly because God is not beholden to a calender.

All ancient, or pagan religions hold a reference or belief in a source of evil.  This is not something 'created' by the Judeo-Christian God.  It may be the first time the source of evil was NAMED Satan, but it is not the beginning of the concept of evil

The following is a reference for the Catholic explaination.  I will only entertain SERIOUS questions.  Anyone who is wanting to attack or mock or otherwise be disrespectful will be summarily dismissed.

We believe that in the beginning, God created Satan as a good angel: The Lateran Council IV (1215) stated, "The devil and the other demons were indeed created naturally good by God, but they became evil by their own doing." These angels irrevocably chose through their free will to rebel against God and not to serve Him. For this rebellion, they were cast into hell. Sacred Scripture attests to this belief: Our Lord, speaking of the final judgment, said, "Then [the Son of Man] will say to those on His left: 'out of my sight, you condemned, into that everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels'" :(Mt 25:41). St. Peter wrote, "Did God spare even the angels who sinned? He did not! He held them captive in Tartarus [the term in Greek mythology to indicate the place of punishment in the underworld]…" (2 Pt 2:4). St. John added, "The man who sins belongs to the devil, because the devil is a sinner from the beginning" (1 Jn 3:8). In sum, God created the devil as good, God punished him for his sin, and God allows his present activity. The Catechism admits, "It is a great mystery that providence should permit diabolical activity, but 'we know that in everything God works for good with those who love him'" (No. 395).

Our Lord identified Satan in various ways. He called Satan the Prince of this World: Satan uses material things to distract us from God. He tempts us to adore the material, the sensual, and the powerful rather than to adores God. He lures us into a sense of false security of thinking we can build our own little kingdom here and now without any need of God.

Jesus referred to Satan as the Father of Lies: The devil perverts the truth, as he did with Eve. He fills our minds with doubts. He provides all the rationalizations why something is right even though our Lord and the Church teach it as wrong.

Satan is the Price of Darkness: He lurks about and is crafty. He fills us with the pessimistic thoughts, the bad thoughts, the hateful thoughts. He shows us all the hurts, frustration and troubles of this world and of our own lives hoping to lead us to despair.

Finally, Jesus called him the Murderer: The devil seeks to kill the grace of God in our soul, and then take our soul to hell.

Traditionally, the devil is known as Lucifer, meaning "light-bearer," one of the seraphim, the highest choir of angels who see and adore God directly. Given his sin, his activity and his identification by our Lord, it is little wonder that Christian art has depicted Satan as an ugly, horrible beast with horns who has lost all light and beauty. Even in the morality plays of the Middle Ages, Satan could appear in disguise, but was always recognized by his limp, a sign of his fall from heaven.

Nevertheless, we are confident that the power of God will always triumph over that of Satan; good, over evil; and love, over hatred. St. John reminds us, "It was to destroy the devil's works that the Son of God revealed Himself" (1 Jn 3:8).

We take the presence and power of Satan seriously. We continue to ask the candidates in our Baptismal liturgy, "Do you reject Satan? And all his works? And all his empty promises?" We must make the rejection every day. If Satan tempted our Lord in the desert, he surely will tempt us. He knows how we are weak and when we are vulnerable. St. Peter warned, "Stay sober and alert. Your opponent the devil is prowling like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour" (1 Pt 5:8). Moreover, when we do commit sin, we must sincerely repent of it and seek forgiveness, never allowing Satan to gain a foothold into our lives.

Archbishop Fulton Sheen provided us with a keen insight into Satan: "Do not mock the Gospels and say there is no Satan. Evil is too real in the world to say that. Do not say the idea of Satan is dead and gone. Satan never gains so many cohorts, as when, in his shrewdness, he spreads the rumor that he is long since dead. Do not reject the Gospel because it says the Savior was tempted. Satan always tempts the pure — the others are already his. Satan stations more devils on monastery walls than in dens of iniquity, for the latter offer no resistance. Do not say it is absurd that Satan should appear to our Lord, for Satan must always come close to the godly and the strong — the others succumb from a distance."

EireLass
by Ruby Member on Jun. 15, 2014 at 2:32 PM
1 mom liked this

In your research, who is the serpent in Genesis 3? 

FromAtoZ
by AllieCat on Jun. 15, 2014 at 2:35 PM


Quoting jobseeker:

 I gather from your post that you either did not grow up in a religious household or that you have left the faith of your parents and are now researching Judeo-Christian concepts.

I cannot in my own owrds explain an answer to what you are asking.  mostly because it is worded in such a way that makes no sense to me.  If you believe in the true presence of evil personified, whether you call it 'satan' 'beelzibub','lucifer' or whatever, there is not a cut and dried answer to when it happened, mostly because God is not beholden to a calender.

All ancient, or pagan religions hold a reference or belief in a source of evil.  This is not something 'created' by the Judeo-Christian God.  It may be the first time the source of evil was NAMED Satan, but it is not the beginning of the concept of evil

The following is a reference for the Catholic explaination.  I will only entertain SERIOUS questions.  Anyone who is wanting to attack or mock or otherwise be disrespectful will be summarily dismissed.

We believe that in the beginning, God created Satan as a good angel: The Lateran Council IV (1215) stated, "The devil and the other demons were indeed created naturally good by God, but they became evil by their own doing." These angels irrevocably chose through their free will to rebel against God and not to serve Him. For this rebellion, they were cast into hell. Sacred Scripture attests to this belief: Our Lord, speaking of the final judgment, said, "Then [the Son of Man] will say to those on His left: 'out of my sight, you condemned, into that everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels'" :(Mt 25:41). St. Peter wrote, "Did God spare even the angels who sinned? He did not! He held them captive in Tartarus [the term in Greek mythology to indicate the place of punishment in the underworld]…" (2 Pt 2:4). St. John added, "The man who sins belongs to the devil, because the devil is a sinner from the beginning" (1 Jn 3:8). In sum, God created the devil as good, God punished him for his sin, and God allows his present activity. The Catechism admits, "It is a great mystery that providence should permit diabolical activity, but 'we know that in everything God works for good with those who love him'" (No. 395).

Our Lord identified Satan in various ways. He called Satan the Prince of this World: Satan uses material things to distract us from God. He tempts us to adore the material, the sensual, and the powerful rather than to adores God. He lures us into a sense of false security of thinking we can build our own little kingdom here and now without any need of God.

Jesus referred to Satan as the Father of Lies: The devil perverts the truth, as he did with Eve. He fills our minds with doubts. He provides all the rationalizations why something is right even though our Lord and the Church teach it as wrong.

Satan is the Price of Darkness: He lurks about and is crafty. He fills us with the pessimistic thoughts, the bad thoughts, the hateful thoughts. He shows us all the hurts, frustration and troubles of this world and of our own lives hoping to lead us to despair.

Finally, Jesus called him the Murderer: The devil seeks to kill the grace of God in our soul, and then take our soul to hell.

Traditionally, the devil is known as Lucifer, meaning "light-bearer," one of the seraphim, the highest choir of angels who see and adore God directly. Given his sin, his activity and his identification by our Lord, it is little wonder that Christian art has depicted Satan as an ugly, horrible beast with horns who has lost all light and beauty. Even in the morality plays of the Middle Ages, Satan could appear in disguise, but was always recognized by his limp, a sign of his fall from heaven.

Nevertheless, we are confident that the power of God will always triumph over that of Satan; good, over evil; and love, over hatred. St. John reminds us, "It was to destroy the devil's works that the Son of God revealed Himself" (1 Jn 3:8).

We take the presence and power of Satan seriously. We continue to ask the candidates in our Baptismal liturgy, "Do you reject Satan? And all his works? And all his empty promises?" We must make the rejection every day. If Satan tempted our Lord in the desert, he surely will tempt us. He knows how we are weak and when we are vulnerable. St. Peter warned, "Stay sober and alert. Your opponent the devil is prowling like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour" (1 Pt 5:8). Moreover, when we do commit sin, we must sincerely repent of it and seek forgiveness, never allowing Satan to gain a foothold into our lives.

Archbishop Fulton Sheen provided us with a keen insight into Satan: "Do not mock the Gospels and say there is no Satan. Evil is too real in the world to say that. Do not say the idea of Satan is dead and gone. Satan never gains so many cohorts, as when, in his shrewdness, he spreads the rumor that he is long since dead. Do not reject the Gospel because it says the Savior was tempted. Satan always tempts the pure — the others are already his. Satan stations more devils on monastery walls than in dens of iniquity, for the latter offer no resistance. Do not say it is absurd that Satan should appear to our Lord, for Satan must always come close to the godly and the strong — the others succumb from a distance."

Just wanted to say that while I am not Catholic (have not been for many years now), I appreciate the time you took in answering.


Bird_on_a_wire
by Bronze Member on Jun. 15, 2014 at 2:36 PM
Thank you for this answer.
I am not saying that Christianity made up the idea of evil or an ll evil being. I realize that has been done throughout history.
My interest is that in my studies Satan in the Jewish sense is a brig of no free will and acts as a judicator and judge for God. He is not evil but tests and punishes people at the will of God. And of course we all know the Christian version.
I am just wanting to understand why the discrepancies especially since Christianity originates from Judaism. Was it mistranslation through the years making it a mistake? Was it done on purpose to make the religion more political and to make people convert in fear of losing their souls?


Quoting jobseeker:

 I gather from your post that you either did not grow up in a religious household or that you have left the faith of your parents and are now researching Judeo-Christian concepts.


I cannot in my own owrds explain an answer to what you are asking.  mostly because it is worded in such a way that makes no sense to me.  If you believe in the true presence of evil personified, whether you call it 'satan' 'beelzibub','lucifer' or whatever, there is not a cut and dried answer to when it happened, mostly because God is not beholden to a calender.


All ancient, or pagan religions hold a reference or belief in a source of evil.  This is not something 'created' by the Judeo-Christian God.  It may be the first time the source of evil was NAMED Satan, but it is not the beginning of the concept of evil


The following is a reference for the Catholic explaination.  I will only entertain SERIOUS questions.  Anyone who is wanting to attack or mock or otherwise be disrespectful will be summarily dismissed.



We believe that in the beginning, God created Satan as a good angel: The Lateran Council IV (1215) stated, "The devil and the other demons were indeed created naturally good by God, but they became evil by their own doing." These angels irrevocably chose through their free will to rebel against God and not to serve Him. For this rebellion, they were cast into hell. Sacred Scripture attests to this belief: Our Lord, speaking of the final judgment, said, "Then [the Son of Man] will say to those on His left: 'out of my sight, you condemned, into that everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels'" :(Mt 25:41). St. Peter wrote, "Did God spare even the angels who sinned? He did not! He held them captive in Tartarus [the term in Greek mythology to indicate the place of punishment in the underworld]…" (2 Pt 2:4). St. John added, "The man who sins belongs to the devil, because the devil is a sinner from the beginning" (1 Jn 3:8). In sum, God created the devil as good, God punished him for his sin, and God allows his present activity. The Catechism admits, "It is a great mystery that providence should permit diabolical activity, but 'we know that in everything God works for good with those who love him'" (No. 395).


Our Lord identified Satan in various ways. He called Satan the Prince of this World: Satan uses material things to distract us from God. He tempts us to adore the material, the sensual, and the powerful rather than to adores God. He lures us into a sense of false security of thinking we can build our own little kingdom here and now without any need of God.


Jesus referred to Satan as the Father of Lies: The devil perverts the truth, as he did with Eve. He fills our minds with doubts. He provides all the rationalizations why something is right even though our Lord and the Church teach it as wrong.


Satan is the Price of Darkness: He lurks about and is crafty. He fills us with the pessimistic thoughts, the bad thoughts, the hateful thoughts. He shows us all the hurts, frustration and troubles of this world and of our own lives hoping to lead us to despair.


Finally, Jesus called him the Murderer: The devil seeks to kill the grace of God in our soul, and then take our soul to hell.


Traditionally, the devil is known as Lucifer, meaning "light-bearer," one of the seraphim, the highest choir of angels who see and adore God directly. Given his sin, his activity and his identification by our Lord, it is little wonder that Christian art has depicted Satan as an ugly, horrible beast with horns who has lost all light and beauty. Even in the morality plays of the Middle Ages, Satan could appear in disguise, but was always recognized by his limp, a sign of his fall from heaven.


Nevertheless, we are confident that the power of God will always triumph over that of Satan; good, over evil; and love, over hatred. St. John reminds us, "It was to destroy the devil's works that the Son of God revealed Himself" (1 Jn 3:8).


We take the presence and power of Satan seriously. We continue to ask the candidates in our Baptismal liturgy, "Do you reject Satan? And all his works? And all his empty promises?" We must make the rejection every day. If Satan tempted our Lord in the desert, he surely will tempt us. He knows how we are weak and when we are vulnerable. St. Peter warned, "Stay sober and alert. Your opponent the devil is prowling like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour" (1 Pt 5:8). Moreover, when we do commit sin, we must sincerely repent of it and seek forgiveness, never allowing Satan to gain a foothold into our lives.


Archbishop Fulton Sheen provided us with a keen insight into Satan: "Do not mock the Gospels and say there is no Satan. Evil is too real in the world to say that. Do not say the idea of Satan is dead and gone. Satan never gains so many cohorts, as when, in his shrewdness, he spreads the rumor that he is long since dead. Do not reject the Gospel because it says the Savior was tempted. Satan always tempts the pure — the others are already his. Satan stations more devils on monastery walls than in dens of iniquity, for the latter offer no resistance. Do not say it is absurd that Satan should appear to our Lord, for Satan must always come close to the godly and the strong — the others succumb from a distance."

FromAtoZ
by AllieCat on Jun. 15, 2014 at 2:42 PM


Quoting Bird_on_a_wire: Thank you for this answer. I am not saying that Christianity made up the idea of evil or an ll evil being. I realize that has been done throughout history. My interest is that in my studies Satan in the Jewish sense is a brig of no free will and acts as a judicator and judge for God. He is not evil but tests and punishes people at the will of God. And of course we all know the Christian version. I am just wanting to understand why the discrepancies especially since Christianity originates from Judaism. Was it mistranslation through the years making it a mistake? Was it done on purpose to make the religion more political and to make people convert in fear of losing their souls?
Quoting jobseeker:

 I gather from your post that you either did not grow up in a religious household or that you have left the faith of your parents and are now researching Judeo-Christian concepts.

I cannot in my own owrds explain an answer to what you are asking.  mostly because it is worded in such a way that makes no sense to me.  If you believe in the true presence of evil personified, whether you call it 'satan' 'beelzibub','lucifer' or whatever, there is not a cut and dried answer to when it happened, mostly because God is not beholden to a calender.

All ancient, or pagan religions hold a reference or belief in a source of evil.  This is not something 'created' by the Judeo-Christian God.  It may be the first time the source of evil was NAMED Satan, but it is not the beginning of the concept of evil

The following is a reference for the Catholic explaination.  I will only entertain SERIOUS questions.  Anyone who is wanting to attack or mock or otherwise be disrespectful will be summarily dismissed.

We believe that in the beginning, God created Satan as a good angel: The Lateran Council IV (1215) stated, "The devil and the other demons were indeed created naturally good by God, but they became evil by their own doing." These angels irrevocably chose through their free will to rebel against God and not to serve Him. For this rebellion, they were cast into hell. Sacred Scripture attests to this belief: Our Lord, speaking of the final judgment, said, "Then [the Son of Man] will say to those on His left: 'out of my sight, you condemned, into that everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels'" :(Mt 25:41). St. Peter wrote, "Did God spare even the angels who sinned? He did not! He held them captive in Tartarus [the term in Greek mythology to indicate the place of punishment in the underworld]…" (2 Pt 2:4). St. John added, "The man who sins belongs to the devil, because the devil is a sinner from the beginning" (1 Jn 3:8). In sum, God created the devil as good, God punished him for his sin, and God allows his present activity. The Catechism admits, "It is a great mystery that providence should permit diabolical activity, but 'we know that in everything God works for good with those who love him'" (No. 395).

Our Lord identified Satan in various ways. He called Satan the Prince of this World: Satan uses material things to distract us from God. He tempts us to adore the material, the sensual, and the powerful rather than to adores God. He lures us into a sense of false security of thinking we can build our own little kingdom here and now without any need of God.

Jesus referred to Satan as the Father of Lies: The devil perverts the truth, as he did with Eve. He fills our minds with doubts. He provides all the rationalizations why something is right even though our Lord and the Church teach it as wrong.

Satan is the Price of Darkness: He lurks about and is crafty. He fills us with the pessimistic thoughts, the bad thoughts, the hateful thoughts. He shows us all the hurts, frustration and troubles of this world and of our own lives hoping to lead us to despair.

Finally, Jesus called him the Murderer: The devil seeks to kill the grace of God in our soul, and then take our soul to hell.

Traditionally, the devil is known as Lucifer, meaning "light-bearer," one of the seraphim, the highest choir of angels who see and adore God directly. Given his sin, his activity and his identification by our Lord, it is little wonder that Christian art has depicted Satan as an ugly, horrible beast with horns who has lost all light and beauty. Even in the morality plays of the Middle Ages, Satan could appear in disguise, but was always recognized by his limp, a sign of his fall from heaven.

Nevertheless, we are confident that the power of God will always triumph over that of Satan; good, over evil; and love, over hatred. St. John reminds us, "It was to destroy the devil's works that the Son of God revealed Himself" (1 Jn 3:8).

We take the presence and power of Satan seriously. We continue to ask the candidates in our Baptismal liturgy, "Do you reject Satan? And all his works? And all his empty promises?" We must make the rejection every day. If Satan tempted our Lord in the desert, he surely will tempt us. He knows how we are weak and when we are vulnerable. St. Peter warned, "Stay sober and alert. Your opponent the devil is prowling like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour" (1 Pt 5:8). Moreover, when we do commit sin, we must sincerely repent of it and seek forgiveness, never allowing Satan to gain a foothold into our lives.

Archbishop Fulton Sheen provided us with a keen insight into Satan: "Do not mock the Gospels and say there is no Satan. Evil is too real in the world to say that. Do not say the idea of Satan is dead and gone. Satan never gains so many cohorts, as when, in his shrewdness, he spreads the rumor that he is long since dead. Do not reject the Gospel because it says the Savior was tempted. Satan always tempts the pure — the others are already his. Satan stations more devils on monastery walls than in dens of iniquity, for the latter offer no resistance. Do not say it is absurd that Satan should appear to our Lord, for Satan must always come close to the godly and the strong — the others succumb from a distance."

Now this is interesting.  Correct me if I am wrong.  You are saying that, in your studies, you have found that Satan was working through God, or for Him, on His behalf, so to speak........and then somewhere along the line the translations changed between what was and what is believed, in regards to Christians?

Bird_on_a_wire
by Bronze Member on Jun. 15, 2014 at 2:43 PM
1 mom liked this
I have researched this and come to. Slight conclusion that is was the Satan from the book Of job. The angel of god sent to test men and act as judge and judicator.

Quoting EireLass:

In your research, who is the serpent in Genesis 3? 

Bird_on_a_wire
by Bronze Member on Jun. 15, 2014 at 2:46 PM
Yes. It is actually very interesting.

Satan is the tests of men and subsequent judge and judicator according to Gods will.

Quoting FromAtoZ:

Quoting Bird_on_a_wire: Thank you for this answer.
I am not saying that Christianity made up the idea of evil or an ll evil being. I realize that has been done throughout history.
My interest is that in my studies Satan in the Jewish sense is a brig of no free will and acts as a judicator and judge for God. He is not evil but tests and punishes people at the will of God. And of course we all know the Christian version.
I am just wanting to understand why the discrepancies especially since Christianity originates from Judaism. Was it mistranslation through the years making it a mistake? Was it done on purpose to make the religion more political and to make people convert in fear of losing their souls?


Quoting jobseeker:

 I gather from your post that you either did not grow up in a religious household or that you have left the faith of your parents and are now researching Judeo-Christian concepts.


I cannot in my own owrds explain an answer to what you are asking.  mostly because it is worded in such a way that makes no sense to me.  If you believe in the true presence of evil personified, whether you call it 'satan' 'beelzibub','lucifer' or whatever, there is not a cut and dried answer to when it happened, mostly because God is not beholden to a calender.


All ancient, or pagan religions hold a reference or belief in a source of evil.  This is not something 'created' by the Judeo-Christian God.  It may be the first time the source of evil was NAMED Satan, but it is not the beginning of the concept of evil


The following is a reference for the Catholic explaination.  I will only entertain SERIOUS questions.  Anyone who is wanting to attack or mock or otherwise be disrespectful will be summarily dismissed.



We believe that in the beginning, God created Satan as a good angel: The Lateran Council IV (1215) stated, "The devil and the other demons were indeed created naturally good by God, but they became evil by their own doing." These angels irrevocably chose through their free will to rebel against God and not to serve Him. For this rebellion, they were cast into hell. Sacred Scripture attests to this belief: Our Lord, speaking of the final judgment, said, "Then [the Son of Man] will say to those on His left: 'out of my sight, you condemned, into that everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels'" :(Mt 25:41). St. Peter wrote, "Did God spare even the angels who sinned? He did not! He held them captive in Tartarus [the term in Greek mythology to indicate the place of punishment in the underworld]…" (2 Pt 2:4). St. John added, "The man who sins belongs to the devil, because the devil is a sinner from the beginning" (1 Jn 3:8). In sum, God created the devil as good, God punished him for his sin, and God allows his present activity. The Catechism admits, "It is a great mystery that providence should permit diabolical activity, but 'we know that in everything God works for good with those who love him'" (No. 395).


Our Lord identified Satan in various ways. He called Satan the Prince of this World: Satan uses material things to distract us from God. He tempts us to adore the material, the sensual, and the powerful rather than to adores God. He lures us into a sense of false security of thinking we can build our own little kingdom here and now without any need of God.


Jesus referred to Satan as the Father of Lies: The devil perverts the truth, as he did with Eve. He fills our minds with doubts. He provides all the rationalizations why something is right even though our Lord and the Church teach it as wrong.


Satan is the Price of Darkness: He lurks about and is crafty. He fills us with the pessimistic thoughts, the bad thoughts, the hateful thoughts. He shows us all the hurts, frustration and troubles of this world and of our own lives hoping to lead us to despair.


Finally, Jesus called him the Murderer: The devil seeks to kill the grace of God in our soul, and then take our soul to hell.


Traditionally, the devil is known as Lucifer, meaning "light-bearer," one of the seraphim, the highest choir of angels who see and adore God directly. Given his sin, his activity and his identification by our Lord, it is little wonder that Christian art has depicted Satan as an ugly, horrible beast with horns who has lost all light and beauty. Even in the morality plays of the Middle Ages, Satan could appear in disguise, but was always recognized by his limp, a sign of his fall from heaven.


Nevertheless, we are confident that the power of God will always triumph over that of Satan; good, over evil; and love, over hatred. St. John reminds us, "It was to destroy the devil's works that the Son of God revealed Himself" (1 Jn 3:8).


We take the presence and power of Satan seriously. We continue to ask the candidates in our Baptismal liturgy, "Do you reject Satan? And all his works? And all his empty promises?" We must make the rejection every day. If Satan tempted our Lord in the desert, he surely will tempt us. He knows how we are weak and when we are vulnerable. St. Peter warned, "Stay sober and alert. Your opponent the devil is prowling like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour" (1 Pt 5:8). Moreover, when we do commit sin, we must sincerely repent of it and seek forgiveness, never allowing Satan to gain a foothold into our lives.


Archbishop Fulton Sheen provided us with a keen insight into Satan: "Do not mock the Gospels and say there is no Satan. Evil is too real in the world to say that. Do not say the idea of Satan is dead and gone. Satan never gains so many cohorts, as when, in his shrewdness, he spreads the rumor that he is long since dead. Do not reject the Gospel because it says the Savior was tempted. Satan always tempts the pure — the others are already his. Satan stations more devils on monastery walls than in dens of iniquity, for the latter offer no resistance. Do not say it is absurd that Satan should appear to our Lord, for Satan must always come close to the godly and the strong — the others succumb from a distance."

Now this is interesting.  Correct me if I am wrong.  You are saying that, in your studies, you have found that Satan was working through God, or for Him, on His behalf, so to speak........and then somewhere along the line the translations changed between what was and what is believed, in regards to Christians?

FromAtoZ
by AllieCat on Jun. 15, 2014 at 2:47 PM


Quoting Bird_on_a_wire: I have researched this and come to. Slight conclusion that is was the Satan from the book Of job. The angel of god sent to test men and act as judge and judicator.
Quoting EireLass:

In your research, who is the serpent in Genesis 3? 

Forgive me but it is hard to understand what you write.

The Angel OF God or the Angel that God banished to Hell and who is refereed to as Satan?  

Are you saying Satan is acting on behalf of God?  For Him?  At His direction?

FromAtoZ
by AllieCat on Jun. 15, 2014 at 2:49 PM


Quoting Bird_on_a_wire: Yes. It is actually very interesting. Satan is the tests of men and subsequent judge and judicator according to Gods will.
Quoting FromAtoZ:

Quoting Bird_on_a_wire: Thank you for this answer. I am not saying that Christianity made up the idea of evil or an ll evil being. I realize that has been done throughout history. My interest is that in my studies Satan in the Jewish sense is a brig of no free will and acts as a judicator and judge for God. He is not evil but tests and punishes people at the will of God. And of course we all know the Christian version. I am just wanting to understand why the discrepancies especially since Christianity originates from Judaism. Was it mistranslation through the years making it a mistake? Was it done on purpose to make the religion more political and to make people convert in fear of losing their souls?
Quoting jobseeker:

 I gather from your post that you either did not grow up in a religious household or that you have left the faith of your parents and are now researching Judeo-Christian concepts.

I cannot in my own owrds explain an answer to what you are asking.  mostly because it is worded in such a way that makes no sense to me.  If you believe in the true presence of evil personified, whether you call it 'satan' 'beelzibub','lucifer' or whatever, there is not a cut and dried answer to when it happened, mostly because God is not beholden to a calender.

All ancient, or pagan religions hold a reference or belief in a source of evil.  This is not something 'created' by the Judeo-Christian God.  It may be the first time the source of evil was NAMED Satan, but it is not the beginning of the concept of evil

The following is a reference for the Catholic explaination.  I will only entertain SERIOUS questions.  Anyone who is wanting to attack or mock or otherwise be disrespectful will be summarily dismissed.

We believe that in the beginning, God created Satan as a good angel: The Lateran Council IV (1215) stated, "The devil and the other demons were indeed created naturally good by God, but they became evil by their own doing." These angels irrevocably chose through their free will to rebel against God and not to serve Him. For this rebellion, they were cast into hell. Sacred Scripture attests to this belief: Our Lord, speaking of the final judgment, said, "Then [the Son of Man] will say to those on His left: 'out of my sight, you condemned, into that everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels'" :(Mt 25:41). St. Peter wrote, "Did God spare even the angels who sinned? He did not! He held them captive in Tartarus [the term in Greek mythology to indicate the place of punishment in the underworld]…" (2 Pt 2:4). St. John added, "The man who sins belongs to the devil, because the devil is a sinner from the beginning" (1 Jn 3:8). In sum, God created the devil as good, God punished him for his sin, and God allows his present activity. The Catechism admits, "It is a great mystery that providence should permit diabolical activity, but 'we know that in everything God works for good with those who love him'" (No. 395).

Our Lord identified Satan in various ways. He called Satan the Prince of this World: Satan uses material things to distract us from God. He tempts us to adore the material, the sensual, and the powerful rather than to adores God. He lures us into a sense of false security of thinking we can build our own little kingdom here and now without any need of God.

Jesus referred to Satan as the Father of Lies: The devil perverts the truth, as he did with Eve. He fills our minds with doubts. He provides all the rationalizations why something is right even though our Lord and the Church teach it as wrong.

Satan is the Price of Darkness: He lurks about and is crafty. He fills us with the pessimistic thoughts, the bad thoughts, the hateful thoughts. He shows us all the hurts, frustration and troubles of this world and of our own lives hoping to lead us to despair.

Finally, Jesus called him the Murderer: The devil seeks to kill the grace of God in our soul, and then take our soul to hell.

Traditionally, the devil is known as Lucifer, meaning "light-bearer," one of the seraphim, the highest choir of angels who see and adore God directly. Given his sin, his activity and his identification by our Lord, it is little wonder that Christian art has depicted Satan as an ugly, horrible beast with horns who has lost all light and beauty. Even in the morality plays of the Middle Ages, Satan could appear in disguise, but was always recognized by his limp, a sign of his fall from heaven.

Nevertheless, we are confident that the power of God will always triumph over that of Satan; good, over evil; and love, over hatred. St. John reminds us, "It was to destroy the devil's works that the Son of God revealed Himself" (1 Jn 3:8).

We take the presence and power of Satan seriously. We continue to ask the candidates in our Baptismal liturgy, "Do you reject Satan? And all his works? And all his empty promises?" We must make the rejection every day. If Satan tempted our Lord in the desert, he surely will tempt us. He knows how we are weak and when we are vulnerable. St. Peter warned, "Stay sober and alert. Your opponent the devil is prowling like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour" (1 Pt 5:8). Moreover, when we do commit sin, we must sincerely repent of it and seek forgiveness, never allowing Satan to gain a foothold into our lives.

Archbishop Fulton Sheen provided us with a keen insight into Satan: "Do not mock the Gospels and say there is no Satan. Evil is too real in the world to say that. Do not say the idea of Satan is dead and gone. Satan never gains so many cohorts, as when, in his shrewdness, he spreads the rumor that he is long since dead. Do not reject the Gospel because it says the Savior was tempted. Satan always tempts the pure — the others are already his. Satan stations more devils on monastery walls than in dens of iniquity, for the latter offer no resistance. Do not say it is absurd that Satan should appear to our Lord, for Satan must always come close to the godly and the strong — the others succumb from a distance."

Now this is interesting.  Correct me if I am wrong.  You are saying that, in your studies, you have found that Satan was working through God, or for Him, on His behalf, so to speak........and then somewhere along the line the translations changed between what was and what is believed, in regards to Christians?

I do believe Satan tempts man.  I don't, however, believe that Satan is working for God.  That they are working together.  That God directs Satan to tempt to see who will, or will not, follow suit.

If, in fact, that is what you are saying.

However, from what little you have posted, I can see where you could come to such a conclusion.


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