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Spin off of Surrogacy post

Posted by on Jun. 29, 2014 at 11:51 AM
  • 12 Replies

 There is SO much hatred against this woman who disagrees with surrogacy.  I am shocked that so many feel entitled to call her viscous names.  One poster even implied that she needed to be killed!  I find it also hypocritical since when someone posts a PRO-LIFE opinion, one of the come backs is always, 'what are we supposed to do with all the unwanted babies?"

Well, even if you ONLY considered abortions performed for the convenience of the mother, (taking out 'medically necessary' abortions and those performed in case of rape/incest) the wait time for adoption would be effectively cut by 2/3.  We could cut the wait time for parents seeking infant adoptions from up to 5 years, to 18 months or so.

The difference between surrogacy and adoption is in the case of adoption, a woman finds she is pregnant and admits to herself and society that she is unable to commit to motherhood.  Instead of killing the child through abortion, she seeks out a family to love and raise the child.  Adoption is among the most loving and supportive things a mother can do for her child.

In surrogacy, instead of a childless person seeking out a child who is in need, they set out to create a child (most often using their own genetic material).  They are not looking for just ANY CHILD.  They seem to believe that there is something wonderful and magical about themselves that MUST be reproduced.  So they HIRE a womb to carry this child. 

I am not 100% against surrogacy, but I am neither convinced that it is victimless, either.  Can ANYONE say that without a doubt there has never been a woman who felt compelled to surrogacy for financial reasons.   I know that a surrogate has control of her body and has the choice to do whatever she wants with it, but REALLY, all you wishing harm on the woman who is against this cannot see ANY circumstance where it is harmful to her?

I am not positing here that anything be made illegal, I am just wanting to hear REAL opinion, not vitriole

by on Jun. 29, 2014 at 11:51 AM
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Replies (1-10):
Clairwil
by Ruby Member on Jun. 29, 2014 at 2:06 PM


Quoting jobseeker:

Can ANYONE say that without a doubt there has never been a woman who felt compelled to surrogacy for financial reasons.

I like the way they do it in the UK, where they only money they can receive is expenses incurred (eg medical scans, food supplements, maternity clothes, transport to medical appointments, etc).

Jack_Squat
by Silver Member on Jun. 29, 2014 at 2:47 PM
For some reason, people seem to believe that surrogacy earns the surrogate tons of money. Like I said in the other post, if I break down what our surrogate is being compensated, it equals out to roughly $3.95/ hour. Less if you count the couple of months for the screening and legal process and prep meds, which would put it at roughly $2.89/hour.

I know many surrogates who carry for free for friends or family. Contrary to popular belief, surrogacy is not a get rich scheme, and I absolutely feel that compensation for pain, potential risks, physical and emotional suffering, and strain on their bodies, lifestyles and families is fair.

Also, yes, it can be harmful for the surrogate. There are many potential risks in ANY pregnancy. Most surrogacy contracts cover those potential risks with extra financial compensation, and surrogates are always fully informed and educated on the risks. Precautions are also taken by RE's to minimize those risks.
jobseeker
by Silver Member on Jun. 29, 2014 at 7:31 PM

 

it is totally NOT a get rich quick plan and in THIS country women who do this mostly do it out of a sense of desire to give a special gift to another family. 

I AM concerned about those who 'outsource' to third world countries.  Those women earn what is a pittance to our minds, but can be a couple years salary for them.  Isn't that exploitation?

Quoting Jack_Squat: For some reason, people seem to believe that surrogacy earns the surrogate tons of money. Like I said in the other post, if I break down what our surrogate is being compensated, it equals out to roughly $3.95/ hour. Less if you count the couple of months for the screening and legal process and prep meds, which would put it at roughly $2.89/hour. I know many surrogates who carry for free for friends or family. Contrary to popular belief, surrogacy is not a get rich scheme, and I absolutely feel that compensation for pain, potential risks, physical and emotional suffering, and strain on their bodies, lifestyles and families is fair. Also, yes, it can be harmful for the surrogate. There are many potential risks in ANY pregnancy. Most surrogacy contracts cover those potential risks with extra financial compensation, and surrogates are always fully informed and educated on the risks. Precautions are also taken by RE's to minimize those risks.

 

Momniscient
by Obama licker on Jun. 29, 2014 at 7:39 PM
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I doesn't matter if a woman does it for financial reasons. Still none of your business and doesn't mean surrogacy is wrong in general.

I don't wish harm to that woman who is against it but she isn't exactly a poster child for reasonable dialogue.
jobseeker
by Silver Member on Jun. 29, 2014 at 7:46 PM

What is her sin against reasonable dialogue?

I am not trying to be argumentative, but it seems more are angry at her message, than her reasons. 

I  DO think it is exploitive of women who will do this for financial reasons.  I think anytime a woman is reduced to her body parts it is sad.  I am not TOTALLY against surrogacy, but I am not moved to support it either. 

I offered my womb to my sister, but she ultimately chose adoption.  I am glad I did not do that now, for my own very personal reasons.

Quoting Momniscient: I doesn't matter if a woman does it for financial reasons. Still none of your business and doesn't mean surrogacy is wrong in general. I don't wish harm to that woman who is against it but she isn't exactly a poster child for reasonable dialogue.

 

Jack_Squat
by Silver Member on Jun. 29, 2014 at 7:49 PM
If they are over the age of 18, are consenting on their own, have legal representation and have honestly been informed of all the risks, then no, it's not exploitation. For it to be considered exploitation, there would have to be a standard 'wage' for lack of a better term for being a surrogate, which there is not. I've seen compensations range from $0 to $60k, just here in the US.

It would seem logical that the costs of doing surrogacy internationally exponentially raises the overall cost of surrogacy. IPs using an international surrogate do not really save any money by paying their surrogate less than what they would pay, here, and if that small amount equals to a year or more of wages for the surrogate in a 3rd world country, then they're actually being compensated MORE than most surrogates, here, because surrogacy compensation generally doesn't even equal a year's wages, here. Does that make sense? Some IPs are willing to pay the extra costs to do surrogacy, internationally, to help change the circumstances of a family in another country. Basically, you can't compare it to outsourcing because, with surrogacy, going international does NOT save you money. Just doing our cycle in another state has raised the basic cost about 5k. And that's not considering major circumstances after birth that will require us to stay longer than a week (like an extended NICU stay)

Quoting jobseeker:

 


it is totally NOT a get rich quick plan and in THIS country women who do this mostly do it out of a sense of desire to give a special gift to another family. 


I AM concerned about those who 'outsource' to third world countries.  Those women earn what is a pittance to our minds, but can be a couple years salary for them.  Isn't that exploitation?


Quoting Jack_Squat: For some reason, people seem to believe that surrogacy earns the surrogate tons of money. Like I said in the other post, if I break down what our surrogate is being compensated, it equals out to roughly $3.95/ hour. Less if you count the couple of months for the screening and legal process and prep meds, which would put it at roughly $2.89/hour. I know many surrogates who carry for free for friends or family. Contrary to popular belief, surrogacy is not a get rich scheme, and I absolutely feel that compensation for pain, potential risks, physical and emotional suffering, and strain on their bodies, lifestyles and families is fair. Also, yes, it can be harmful for the surrogate. There are many potential risks in ANY pregnancy. Most surrogacy contracts cover those potential risks with extra financial compensation, and surrogates are always fully informed and educated on the risks. Precautions are also taken by RE's to minimize those risks.

 

Momniscient
by Obama licker on Jun. 29, 2014 at 7:53 PM
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Anytime someone takes might be's and supposedly' s and uses it to try to take choice away from people with bans and inflammatory rhetoric (exploitation!) they aren't engaging in reasonable dialogue.

People make choices. It really doesn't matter to them if you think it's exploitative. My guess is they aren't making choices like these lightly so I don't think it's useful to attempt to reduce their choices to fit a preset mold. That woman has an obvious agenda and it isn't a reasonable one.

I don't have a problem with regulating surrogacy.


Quoting jobseeker:

What is her sin against reasonable dialogue?


I am not trying to be argumentative, but it seems more are angry at her message, than her reasons. 


I  DO think it is exploitive of women who will do this for financial reasons.  I think anytime a woman is reduced to her body parts it is sad.  I am not TOTALLY against surrogacy, but I am not moved to support it either. 


I offered my womb to my sister, but she ultimately chose adoption.  I am glad I did not do that now, for my own very personal reasons.


Quoting Momniscient: I doesn't matter if a woman does it for financial reasons. Still none of your business and doesn't mean surrogacy is wrong in general. I don't wish harm to that woman who is against it but she isn't exactly a poster child for reasonable dialogue.

 

snookyfritz
by Platinum Member on Jun. 29, 2014 at 7:54 PM

I think surrogacy in addition to being contrary to natural law, is sort of icky and demeaning to women.  In the last thread I posted in it was discussed that even carrying children or hinting that the idea that we were meant to carry a child because it reduces us to a commodity...well, this reduces women to the highest level of commodity.  

coolmommy2x
by Platinum Member on Jun. 29, 2014 at 8:04 PM
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As I said in the other post, those who do it are selfless and giving a couple the most generous gift. I also believe it's no one else's business except for the parties involved.
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Jack_Squat
by Silver Member on Jun. 29, 2014 at 8:04 PM
There's your problem. Neither surrogates or IPS view surrogacy as "reducing a woman to body parts". All the surrogates and IPs alike that I know would find that an extremely shallow POV, as there is SO much more to surrogacy than that. Surrogacy is an amazing gift of LIFE and parenthood, not about uteri. There is a HUGE sense of joy, pride, accomplishment and love when a surrogate gives birth and places the baby in the arms of its parents. To me, what you said is like saying people who give blood or donate marrow or organs are just being reduced to body parts. Our surrogate is NOT just a body part, and will never be treated as such. She is an integrated part of our family, and is giving us a gift that we can never truly pay her enough for.

Quoting jobseeker:

What is her sin against reasonable dialogue?


I am not trying to be argumentative, but it seems more are angry at her message, than her reasons. 


I  DO think it is exploitive of women who will do this for financial reasons.  I think anytime a woman is reduced to her body parts it is sad.  I am not TOTALLY against surrogacy, but I am not moved to support it either. 


I offered my womb to my sister, but she ultimately chose adoption.  I am glad I did not do that now, for my own very personal reasons.


Quoting Momniscient: I doesn't matter if a woman does it for financial reasons. Still none of your business and doesn't mean surrogacy is wrong in general. I don't wish harm to that woman who is against it but she isn't exactly a poster child for reasonable dialogue.

 

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