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To Everyone Who Read My Debates/Post Against Same-Sex Marriage Back in the Day...

Posted by on Sep. 29, 2017 at 5:02 AM
  • 31 Replies
7 moms liked this


I would like to apologize and share my story of coming to the point where I even knew an apology was necessary. I want others to know, especially those who have been hurt, that people can change. In the meantime, healthy boundaries and attitudes can help us find what we need.

My middle name is Gaye. So, probably from an abnormally young age, I thought about the gay stigma. Thinking about it was unavoidable when the teacher would read off my full name and the other little kids would snicker. So, it was in my mind. Slowly, I peeled away the prevalent assumptions about gays. I threw away presumptions attaching homosexuality to pedophilia, to AIDS, and to promiscuity.

Despite this, as an adult I still fought against same-sex marriage, believing it represented a fundamental change it the way marriage is conceived. I logged hundreds of internet hours researching and debating, many of them with gay, lesbian, bi, and transgender people. I listened, sometimes I listened better than other times. I invented and discovered argument after argument, sharing and defending each in turn. Essentially speaking, virtually all rational arguments dissolved when exposed to compassion and reasonable scrutiny.

So, after several years, I deeply wanted same-sex couples to be able to have legal protections. When SCOTUS finally ruled in favor of same-sex marriage, I was genuinely happy for those benefiting from the legalization of same-sex marriage.

After getting to know and to love many people who are not straight, I still cannot completely relate to a same-sex relationship, but I’ve also realized that this doesn’t change anything. Do we have to understand each other completely to be decent and kind? I hope not. Do I get it? Not totally, but so what. I want you to be able to live your life, to love, and to freely commit to another person if you want to.

At that point as a believing Mormon, I would empathize with the Brethren. I assumed that they, God's chosen prophets, protectors and stewards of the precious flock of humanity here on earth, had agonized over this issue. I hoped that they were even more aware than I of the suffering, heartache, and struggle felt by those in the church who are not straight. I assumed that the First Presidency had gone to the Lord and pleaded with the Lord for these children and asked for guidance and that they had received a “No” from the Lord.

From the compassionate believing-Mormon perspective, I believed that human beings were stuck with the Lord’s ban on acting out on homosexuality. I believed that this ban was a burden separating individuals and families, generating pain and hostility, and that we as disciples of Christ were charged to love through that gap, to bridge the separation.

From within that perspective, I started to really believe that there might be some higher purpose in this dilemma, that maybe Mormons, when they learned to love gays despite God's ban on their desires, would help lead the way for devotees around the world. I believed we would show Muslims, Baptists, and any other group that opposed homosexual relationships, including other Mormons, how to love those separated from us and how to bridge the distance.

However, although my belief in the church didn't break over these issues, my belief did break.

From outside the Mormon perspective, the dilemma Mormons suffer over homosexuality is so much clearer, and is absolutely tragic. It's so useless, this suffering. There's no reason consistent with love and hope to believe God is banning homosexuality. Any energy used against two people loving each other is a waste.

As an ex-Mormon, I have keenly felt the pain of being un-tethered from the comfort of dogma and religious certainty. It can be frightening. That said, in breaking that tether I feel like I have stepped into a world of full color. There is good and there is mystery because true goodness and happiness in not monopolized by any one ideology. Of course, there are still rules like gravity; there are consequences for really listening and responding to other human beings, there are consequences for not.

I have become a hopeful skeptic; I believe in questioning as a guiding principle and I believe in being kind. So if you’re not straight, I’m deeply sorry for any hurt I have contributed to your life. I am so, so sorry and I ask your forgiveness. To everyone, I’m sorry for the hurt I have contributed to the world by carrying the water for homophobia. I would implore anyone and everyone who has read this far, including my LDS friends and loved ones, to continue listening and bridging gaps that divide us from other human beings. It will make a difference, there will be good consequences from that.

It’s a new day. Thanks for listening.

by on Sep. 29, 2017 at 5:02 AM
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Replies (1-10):
Quakercaoimhe
by Member on Sep. 29, 2017 at 6:30 AM
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Your public apology is incredibly brave. I hope you will continue to talk to, and question, those who are of the mindset that you used to hold. 

I read a lot of these "I've realised how wrong I was" posts from ex Mormons, ex Baptsts, ex Catholics, etc, and it makes me genuinely appreciate being a Quaker. The leaderships of many churches are so bigoted, so corrupt, and so lost that they won't even entertain the notion that they are hurting those they are meant to serve. 

NWP
by guerrilla girl on Sep. 29, 2017 at 6:31 AM
1 mom liked this
Meadowchick I remember having many discussions with you on this topic, back when most of us could actually discuss our differences. I know you were Mormon. Forgive me for asking. Is this a personal post or something posted elsewhere you are sharing?
Meadowchik
by Silver Member on Sep. 29, 2017 at 6:37 AM
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Quoting NWP: Meadowchick I remember having many discussions with you on this topic, back when most of us could actually discuss our differences. I know you were Mormon. Forgive me for asking. Is this a personal post or something posted elsewhere you are sharing?

I have posted it elsewhere. I posted it on Facebook yesterday. I want to get it to the people/places where I spent the most time arguing.  Does that answer your question?


Meadowchik
by Silver Member on Sep. 29, 2017 at 6:40 AM

PS Feel free to friend me on FB if you find me...yet you must reveal your CM identity if you do....dun dun dun... :)

Clairwil
by Ruby Member on Sep. 29, 2017 at 7:11 AM
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Quoting Meadowchik:

Despite this, as an adult I still fought against same-sex marriage, believing it represented a fundamental change it the way marriage is conceived. I logged hundreds of internet hours researching and debating, many of them with gay, lesbian, bi, and transgender people. I listened, sometimes I listened better than other times. I invented and discovered argument after argument, sharing and defending each in turn.

Looking back, should that have been a warning sign to you?

"Hmm, it seems I _want_ the following conclusion to be true, so I'm actively searching only for evidence and arguments that support it.   What I'm not doing is taking a balanced look at all arguments, both pro- and con-, and going forwards where ever that takes me."  


Do you have any advice for others, on how they could spot that pattern in their own lives?

romalove
by Roma on Sep. 29, 2017 at 7:20 AM
6 moms liked this

Hi Meadowchik.  You and I went around on that issue many times "back in the day" but we were always able to have our debates and discussions with respect for one another and our opinions.

That has not changed by your post here.  You are still respectful of other opinions and ways people live, even if as you acknowledge you don't completely understand them.  That is a wonderful gift that you have, you should be so happy to have that.

I admire your bravery in offering this apology to those who need it, and for talking about how you've had an evolution in your thinking.  How rare it is to find someone acknowledging that they used their critical thinking skills and examination of heart to come to a different conclusion.

Hugs to you, as always.

NWP
by guerrilla girl on Sep. 29, 2017 at 7:21 AM
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Yes. Sometimes people post things others wrote and don't use the source and it's confusing.

I would like to thank you for sharing this with us. In this time of extreme division it's a reminder of how we can come to understand one another. This is very important.

Plus you remind me of when we used to actually discuss issues. I miss those days.


Quoting Meadowchik:

Quoting NWP: Meadowchick I remember having many discussions with you on this topic, back when most of us could actually discuss our differences. I know you were Mormon. Forgive me for asking. Is this a personal post or something posted elsewhere you are sharing?



I have posted it elsewhere. I posted it on Facebook yesterday. I want to get it to the people/places where I spent the most time arguing.  Does that answer your question?

Bookwormy
by Ruby Member on Sep. 29, 2017 at 7:28 AM
2 moms liked this
You were a good debater, if it is any consolation, lol. I remember that you would often argue from a non-religious perspective but I sensed there was more to it. I went to your profile, saw your groups included LDS Moms, & figured there was no arguing with you. I also remember a very kind thing you said to me about being Jewish. I really liked that about you.

I am not everyone, obviously, but as one of the out lesbians on this board with whom you did debate, i absolutely accept your apology. I also must say that i really feel for you. No one should have to leave their community over a single issue. My wife left hers over being lesbian and it hurts her still. I'm sorry to you. {{{Meadowchik}}}
Billiejeens
by The Librarian on Sep. 29, 2017 at 7:33 AM

I swear that sinceTrump emerged you aren't even the same person.


That's a shame

billsfan1104
by on Sep. 29, 2017 at 7:41 AM
I would have left the Mormon church over no drinking beer or soda. Lol.
You owe no one an apology. It's what your beliefs were at the time and from what I have seen, you didn't personally degrade others.
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