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Bannon Is Subpoenaed in Mueller’s Russia Investigation

Posted by on Jan. 16, 2018 at 2:33 PM
  • 19 Replies
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/01/16/us/politics/steve-bannon-mueller-russia-subpoena.html?referer=https://www.google.com/

WASHINGTON — Stephen K. Bannon, President Trump’s former chief strategist, was subpoenaed last week by the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, to testify before a grand jury as part of the investigation into possible links between Mr. Trump’s associates and Russia, according to a person with direct knowledge of the matter.

The move marked the first time Mr. Mueller is known to have used a grand jury subpoena to seek information from a member of Mr. Trump’s inner circle. The special counsel’s office has used subpoenas before to seek information on Mr. Trump’s associates and their possible ties to Russia or other foreign governments.

The subpoena could be a negotiating tactic. Mr. Mueller is likely to allow Mr. Bannon to forgo the grand jury appearance if he agrees to instead be questioned by investigators in the less formal setting of the special counsel’s offices about ties between Mr. Trump’s associates and Russia and about the president’s conduct in office, according to the person, who would not be named discussing the case. But it was not clear why Mr. Mueller treated Mr. Bannon differently than the dozen administration officials who were interviewed in the final months of last year and were never served with a subpoena.

The subpoena is a sign that Mr. Bannon is not personally the focus of the investigation. Justice Department rules allow prosecutors to subpoena to the targets of investigations only in rare circumstances.

On Tuesday, Mr. Bannon testified behind closed doors before the House Intelligence Committee, which is also investigating Russia’s meddling in the 2016 election and ties between the Trump campaign and Russia. Mr. Bannon did not address reporters before entering the proceeding on Tuesday, and a spokesman for Mr. Mueller and a senior White House lawyer did not respond to messages seeking comment.

Mr. Mueller issued the subpoena after Mr. Bannon was quoted in a new book criticizing Mr. Trump, saying that Donald Trump Jr.’s 2016 meeting with Russians was “treasonous” and predicting that the special counsel investigation would ultimately center on money laundering.

After excerpts from the book, “Fire and Fury: Inside the Trump White House,” were published this month, Mr. Trump derided Mr. Bannon publicly and threatened to sue him for defamation. Mr. Bannon was soon ousted as the executive chairman of the hard-right website Breitbart News.

Some legal experts said the subpoena could be a sign that the investigation was intensifying, while others said it may simply have been a negotiating tactic to persuade Mr. Bannon to cooperate with the investigation. The experts also said it could be a signal to Mr. Bannon, who has tried to publicly patch up his falling-out with the president, that despite Mr. Trump’s legal threats, Mr. Bannon must be completely forthcoming with investigators.

Prosecutors generally prefer to interview witnesses before a grand jury when they believe they have information that the witnesses do not know or when they think they might catch the witnesses in a lie. It is much easier for a witness to stop the questioning or sidestep questions in an interview than during grand jury testimony, which is transcribed, and witnesses are required to answer every question.

“By forcing someone to testify through a subpoena, you are providing the witness with cover because they can say, ‘I had no choice — I had to go in and testify about everything I knew,’” said Solomon L. Wisenberg, a prosecutor for the independent counsel that investigated Bill Clinton when he was president.

Significant grand jury activity may undermine the case that White House officials have made for months: that they believe the inquiry is coming to an end and are convinced that the president will be cleared. Mr. Mueller has told Mr. Trump’s lawyers that he will probably want to question the president before the investigation concludes, but no interview has been scheduled.

Mr. Bannon has limited firsthand knowledge about two key issues within Mr. Mueller’s purview — the president’s firing of James B. Comey as F.B.I. director, a decision made without Mr. Bannon present, and the drafting of a misleading statement about the subject of the June 2016 meeting with Russians, in which they promised damaging information about Hillary Clinton.

But even Mr. Bannon’s secondhand knowledge could be used to draw a contrast with statements from people with firsthand knowledge whom Mr. Mueller has already interviewed. And Mr. Bannon was directly involved in a number of other major moments, including the decision-making around the firing of Michael T. Flynn, the president’s first national security adviser, who was dismissed after he lied to Vice President Mike Pence about phone calls with the Russian ambassador during the presidential transition.

Mr. Bannon also helped run the transition after Chris Christie, the outgoing governor of New Jersey, was fired as head of that team. And Mr. Bannon was the chief executive of the Trump campaign in October 2016 when WikiLeaks began releasing thousands of stolen personal emails from the hacked account of Mrs. Clinton’s campaign chairman, John D. Podesta.

In “Fire and Fury,” Mr. Bannon was quoted by the author, Michael Wolff, as suggesting that Donald Trump Jr.; the president’s son-in-law and senior adviser, Jared Kushner; and Paul Manafort, his campaign chairman at the time, were “treasonous” and “unpatriotic” for attending the meeting with Russians at Trump Tower. Mr. Bannon said that he believed there was “zero” chance that the younger Mr. Trump did not take them to meet his father, who has said he knew nothing about the meeting.

“The three senior guys in the campaign thought it was a good idea to meet with a foreign government inside Trump Tower in the conference room on the 25th floor — with no lawyers,” Mr. Bannon said in the book.

Mr. Trump erupted in anger after the excerpts were published, calling Mr. Bannon “Sloppy Steve” on Twitter and saying he had “cried when he got fired and begged for his job.”

“Now Sloppy Steve has been dumped like a dog by almost everyone,” Mr. Trump wrote. “Too bad!”

Days after the excerpts were published, a statement was issued in Mr. Bannon’s name in which he tried to back away from his assertions in the book. He said that his reference to treason was aimed at Mr. Manafort, not the president’s son. Mr. Bannon did not apologize, however, and though he had approved the statement, an associate sent it to reporters without his knowledge.

The president appeared to ease his anger toward Mr. Bannon at the end of last week. When asked in an interview with The Wall Street Journal whether his break with Mr. Bannon was “permanent,” the president replied, “I don’t know what the word ‘permanent’ means.”

People close to Mr. Bannon took the president’s comments as a signal that Mr. Trump was aware that his fired strategist would soon be contacted by investigators.

Mr. Trump has a history of reaching out to people he has fired, including those under investigation, directly or indirectly, as he did with Mr. Flynn after he was dismissed and before he struck a plea deal with Mr. Mueller’s investigators.

Mr. Bannon has hired William A. Burck of the Washington office of the Quinn Emanuel Urquhart & Sullivan law firm to represent him in the defamation threats from Mr. Trump and the congressional inquiries. Mr. Burck also represents several current and former administration officials who have been interviewed as witnesses by Mr. Mueller’s investigators. Among them are the White House counsel, Donald F. McGahn II, and the former White House chief of staff, Reince Priebus.
by on Jan. 16, 2018 at 2:33 PM
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jessilin0113
by Ruby Member on Jan. 16, 2018 at 2:36 PM
2 moms liked this
I find this guy's Twitter feed fascinating: @sethabramson

2/ Four possibilities: Bannon tries to quash the subpoena and fails; Bannon ignores the subpoena and is found in contempt until he testifies; Bannon testifies and pleads the Fifth; Bannon testifies freely, under oath, and incriminates others.

The last is BY FAR the most likely.

3/ That said, the second-to-last possibility I just mentioned is the second-most likely (again, BY FAR). In that case, Bannon would try to cut a deal with Mueller prior to his testimony—which he'd ask Mueller to delay—so he could testify freely without fear of self-incrimination.

4/ What Mueller has done here is directly, publicly and dramatically punished the president for his aggressive self-distancing from Bannon. Mueller is subpoenaing Bannon at the very moment he knows Bannon has nothing left to lose and no loyalty to Trump. It's no accident, either.

5/ The two chief benefits of grand jury testimony versus an informal interview are that the former is under oath and without counsel, which severely limits there being any restrictions whatsoever on the questions.

And the grand jury can indict Bannon if he incriminates himself.

6/ But I think there's no reason to believe Bannon is one of Mueller's primary indictment targets. Rather, the timing of this subpoena suggests he wants to force Bannon into cutting a deal to incriminate others. And Bannon has previously implied he can incriminate Jared Kushner.

7/ So this subpoena is the legal equivalent of direct fire aimed at the president (metaphorically speaking). And the message Mueller is sending Trump is absolutely unmistakable (and chilling to Trump, undoubtedly): I'm coming for you and your family. So this changes some things.

8/ The already near-zero chance that Trump would voluntarily allow himself to be interviewed by Special Counsel Bob Mueller just went through the floor.

Almost certainly, we will now end up with a prolonged legal battle to see if Mueller can get Trump before a grand jury.

9/ I think Mueller may have held off on a Bannon subpoena had he thought he could get Trump to come in for a voluntary interview over the next few weeks. I suspect he took Trump's statements about an interview being "unlikely" as his signal to proceed with a subpoena for Bannon.

10/ What's striking here is that Mueller subpoenaed Bannon without first seeking an informal interview—that's what suggests that there's a strategy behind this rather than Mueller merely wanting to speak to Bannon, which he probably could've gotten through a voluntary interview.

11/ So either Bannon already turned down a voluntary interview or Mueller thinks he has enough evidence to indict Bannon for something and therefore he knows this subpoena will force Bannon to the negotiating table (on a deal to testify against others above him in the hierarchy).

12/ It could be that Mueller wanted to cut off at the pass a possible future detente between Trump and Bannon—which Trump might immediately seek if he knew Bannon was about to go in for an interview. With a subpoena, Bannon is unambiguously a witness in a criminal investigation.

13/ So a subpoena, unlike a voluntary interview, could scare Bannon into a plea deal *and* more effectively scare Trump from trying to secretly approach him for a detente (which would undoubtedly be Witness Tampering, at that point).

14/ But this subpoena only hurts Mueller's chances of convincing Trump to come in for a voluntary interview—which fact both Trump and Mueller know—which means either Mueller has already given up on that possibility or he wants Trump under oath before a grand jury no matter what.
cgd5112
by Silver Member on Jan. 16, 2018 at 7:51 PM
1 mom liked this
I follow him on Twitter. Prolific, highly intelligent, and knowledgeable. His tweets are easy to follow and understand. Love it!

Quoting jessilin0113: I find this guy's Twitter feed fascinating: @sethabramson

2/ Four possibilities: Bannon tries to quash the subpoena and fails; Bannon ignores the subpoena and is found in contempt until he testifies; Bannon testifies and pleads the Fifth; Bannon testifies freely, under oath, and incriminates others.

The last is BY FAR the most likely.

3/ That said, the second-to-last possibility I just mentioned is the second-most likely (again, BY FAR). In that case, Bannon would try to cut a deal with Mueller prior to his testimony—which he'd ask Mueller to delay—so he could testify freely without fear of self-incrimination.

4/ What Mueller has done here is directly, publicly and dramatically punished the president for his aggressive self-distancing from Bannon. Mueller is subpoenaing Bannon at the very moment he knows Bannon has nothing left to lose and no loyalty to Trump. It's no accident, either.

5/ The two chief benefits of grand jury testimony versus an informal interview are that the former is under oath and without counsel, which severely limits there being any restrictions whatsoever on the questions.

And the grand jury can indict Bannon if he incriminates himself.

6/ But I think there's no reason to believe Bannon is one of Mueller's primary indictment targets. Rather, the timing of this subpoena suggests he wants to force Bannon into cutting a deal to incriminate others. And Bannon has previously implied he can incriminate Jared Kushner.

7/ So this subpoena is the legal equivalent of direct fire aimed at the president (metaphorically speaking). And the message Mueller is sending Trump is absolutely unmistakable (and chilling to Trump, undoubtedly): I'm coming for you and your family. So this changes some things.

8/ The already near-zero chance that Trump would voluntarily allow himself to be interviewed by Special Counsel Bob Mueller just went through the floor.

Almost certainly, we will now end up with a prolonged legal battle to see if Mueller can get Trump before a grand jury.

9/ I think Mueller may have held off on a Bannon subpoena had he thought he could get Trump to come in for a voluntary interview over the next few weeks. I suspect he took Trump's statements about an interview being "unlikely" as his signal to proceed with a subpoena for Bannon.

10/ What's striking here is that Mueller subpoenaed Bannon without first seeking an informal interview—that's what suggests that there's a strategy behind this rather than Mueller merely wanting to speak to Bannon, which he probably could've gotten through a voluntary interview.

11/ So either Bannon already turned down a voluntary interview or Mueller thinks he has enough evidence to indict Bannon for something and therefore he knows this subpoena will force Bannon to the negotiating table (on a deal to testify against others above him in the hierarchy).

12/ It could be that Mueller wanted to cut off at the pass a possible future detente between Trump and Bannon—which Trump might immediately seek if he knew Bannon was about to go in for an interview. With a subpoena, Bannon is unambiguously a witness in a criminal investigation.

13/ So a subpoena, unlike a voluntary interview, could scare Bannon into a plea deal *and* more effectively scare Trump from trying to secretly approach him for a detente (which would undoubtedly be Witness Tampering, at that point).

14/ But this subpoena only hurts Mueller's chances of convincing Trump to come in for a voluntary interview—which fact both Trump and Mueller know—which means either Mueller has already given up on that possibility or he wants Trump under oath before a grand jury no matter what.
Clairwil
by Ruby Member on Jan. 16, 2018 at 7:58 PM
2 moms liked this

Nice timing.   Waiting until Trump is at logger heads with Bannon and publically insulting him.

I doubt Steve's going to feel much loyalty to keep quiet.

m0nao
by on Jan. 16, 2018 at 8:18 PM

In “Fire and Fury,” Mr. Bannon was quoted by the author, Michael Wolff, as suggesting that Donald Trump Jr.; the president’s son-in-law and senior adviser, Jared Kushner; and Paul Manafort, his campaign chairman at the time, were “treasonous” and “unpatriotic” for attending the meeting with Russians at Trump Tower. Mr. Bannon said that he believed there was “zero” chance that the younger Mr. Trump did not take them to meet his father, who has said he knew nothing about the meeting.

“The three senior guys in the campaign thought it was a good idea to meet with a foreign government inside Trump Tower in the conference room on the 25th floor — with no lawyers,” Mr. Bannon said in the book. hmmnn

Myahny
by Bronze Member on Jan. 16, 2018 at 8:22 PM

When Bannon tried to use Executive priviledge today in the House Intel hearing they slapped him with a subpoena right then & there, put him under oath & he's STILL in answering questions.   Going on 10 hours. 

And that's on top of Mueller issuing a Grand Jury subpoena for him last week. 

Update:  Bannon just finished testifying.  10 1/2 hours. 

Sisteract
by Whoopie on Jan. 16, 2018 at 9:29 PM
1 mom liked this

The WH quashed his testimony; put a gag order on parts of Bannon's testimony.

Why do innocent people need to quash testimony?

Sisteract
by Whoopie on Jan. 16, 2018 at 9:32 PM
2 moms liked this

And Go Mueller!

Madeyemoody
by Member on Jan. 16, 2018 at 9:34 PM
I actually love it lol he’s going to talk and talk lol

Quoting Clairwil:

Nice timing.   Waiting until Trump is at logger heads with Bannon and publically insulting him.

I doubt Steve's going to feel much loyalty to keep quiet.

jessilin0113
by Ruby Member on Jan. 16, 2018 at 9:35 PM
Apparently he refused to answer questions, even after getting hit with a subpoena.

Quoting Madeyemoody: I actually love it lol he’s going to talk and talk lol

Quoting Clairwil:

Nice timing.   Waiting until Trump is at logger heads with Bannon and publically insulting him.

I doubt Steve's going to feel much loyalty to keep quiet.

jessilin0113
by Ruby Member on Jan. 16, 2018 at 9:36 PM
2 moms liked this
I can't wait to see what he makes of Bannon not talking.

Quoting cgd5112: I follow him on Twitter. Prolific, highly intelligent, and knowledgeable. His tweets are easy to follow and understand. Love it!

Quoting jessilin0113: I find this guy's Twitter feed fascinating: @sethabramson

2/ Four possibilities: Bannon tries to quash the subpoena and fails; Bannon ignores the subpoena and is found in contempt until he testifies; Bannon testifies and pleads the Fifth; Bannon testifies freely, under oath, and incriminates others.

The last is BY FAR the most likely.

3/ That said, the second-to-last possibility I just mentioned is the second-most likely (again, BY FAR). In that case, Bannon would try to cut a deal with Mueller prior to his testimony—which he'd ask Mueller to delay—so he could testify freely without fear of self-incrimination.

4/ What Mueller has done here is directly, publicly and dramatically punished the president for his aggressive self-distancing from Bannon. Mueller is subpoenaing Bannon at the very moment he knows Bannon has nothing left to lose and no loyalty to Trump. It's no accident, either.

5/ The two chief benefits of grand jury testimony versus an informal interview are that the former is under oath and without counsel, which severely limits there being any restrictions whatsoever on the questions.

And the grand jury can indict Bannon if he incriminates himself.

6/ But I think there's no reason to believe Bannon is one of Mueller's primary indictment targets. Rather, the timing of this subpoena suggests he wants to force Bannon into cutting a deal to incriminate others. And Bannon has previously implied he can incriminate Jared Kushner.

7/ So this subpoena is the legal equivalent of direct fire aimed at the president (metaphorically speaking). And the message Mueller is sending Trump is absolutely unmistakable (and chilling to Trump, undoubtedly): I'm coming for you and your family. So this changes some things.

8/ The already near-zero chance that Trump would voluntarily allow himself to be interviewed by Special Counsel Bob Mueller just went through the floor.

Almost certainly, we will now end up with a prolonged legal battle to see if Mueller can get Trump before a grand jury.

9/ I think Mueller may have held off on a Bannon subpoena had he thought he could get Trump to come in for a voluntary interview over the next few weeks. I suspect he took Trump's statements about an interview being "unlikely" as his signal to proceed with a subpoena for Bannon.

10/ What's striking here is that Mueller subpoenaed Bannon without first seeking an informal interview—that's what suggests that there's a strategy behind this rather than Mueller merely wanting to speak to Bannon, which he probably could've gotten through a voluntary interview.

11/ So either Bannon already turned down a voluntary interview or Mueller thinks he has enough evidence to indict Bannon for something and therefore he knows this subpoena will force Bannon to the negotiating table (on a deal to testify against others above him in the hierarchy).

12/ It could be that Mueller wanted to cut off at the pass a possible future detente between Trump and Bannon—which Trump might immediately seek if he knew Bannon was about to go in for an interview. With a subpoena, Bannon is unambiguously a witness in a criminal investigation.

13/ So a subpoena, unlike a voluntary interview, could scare Bannon into a plea deal *and* more effectively scare Trump from trying to secretly approach him for a detente (which would undoubtedly be Witness Tampering, at that point).

14/ But this subpoena only hurts Mueller's chances of convincing Trump to come in for a voluntary interview—which fact both Trump and Mueller know—which means either Mueller has already given up on that possibility or he wants Trump under oath before a grand jury no matter what.
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