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Will it just make things worse?

Posted by on Apr. 20, 2009 at 2:47 PM
  • 18 Replies

With all this chatter about universal health care being the greatest thing since sliced bread, I'm wondering if this is one of those things that may be good in theory & principle but terrible in reality. 

What if the actual quality of healthcare decreases?  As it is, one waits nearly an hour to see the doctor even when you have decent health insurance.  My fear is that waiting rooms are going to turn into pseudo ER-style waiting rooms with overworked and underpaid doctors. As it is, many doctors now are turning down insurance.  I hope that if UHC does happen, doctors are incentivized in some way. 

by on Apr. 20, 2009 at 2:47 PM
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Replies (1-10):
che_bad
by on Apr. 20, 2009 at 2:53 PM

i personally believe it would be a disaster 

Scorpio359
by on Apr. 20, 2009 at 2:55 PM

Why would doctors want to be involved in inferior methods of treating people and being told what they can and what they can't do by the government? Socialism never works. Spoke to another business partner from Quebec Saturday and he gave a dire warning about universal health care and its treatment methods. He warned Armerica don't do it, you are headed for toatal disaster. You will not be given choices on whom you get as a doctor nor the specialists you need in special fields. You will loose your freedom of choice. Socialism does not work.

Godgaveme4
by Platinum Member on Apr. 20, 2009 at 3:06 PM

I actually have not heard very many people say they support UHC.  In fact most of the people I have heard say good things about it are not even citizens of the US.

I too believe it will not work.  I am very happy with my medical insurance and care right now.

CharmaineL
by Bronze Member on Apr. 20, 2009 at 3:07 PM


Quoting che_bad:

i personally believe it would be a disaster 

The more I hear and read about it, the more I'm inclined to think it will be a disaster.  Unless one really loves the medical profession and truly wants to help others, the reality is med school is not cheap! For this concept to even remotely work, doctors need to be incentivized greatly.  As it is, there is already red tape, and the beaurocracy will only get worse I'd imagine.  I just have images of that horrible DMV or social security office and what we endure there as happening in our doctor's offices.  Not a great experience for all parties involved. 

gogetem
by Bronze Member on Apr. 20, 2009 at 3:14 PM


Quoting che_bad:

i personally believe it would be a disaster 


Eilish
by on Apr. 20, 2009 at 3:17 PM

Here are the reasons why I oppose UHC:

  1. The government will be privy to your medical records and information for the sake of making sure that you aren't receiving "unnecessary" treatment, OR to make sure that you are getting "recommended" treatment like vaccines. This is an invasion of privacy and usurps the individuals right to choose what health care they want to take and what they want to leave.
  2. Competition for high quality health care will be completely eliminated, there will be no incentive to further science unless it somehow benefits the government.
  3. I will be paying for health insurance, i will likely not use. My family and I rarely see our doc, because we choose more holistic forms of medicine. While I recognize the benefit of conventional medicine, I also have a pretty extensive knowledge of medicinal herbs which means that I turn to those before I turn to my doc. I currently have no insurance, and this method save a lot of money.
  4. The government is currently trying to significantly curtail the use of medicinal herbs and supplements. This means that my family and I will be stuck with the synthetic pharmaceuticals which we believe do more harm than good.

UHC is bad idea! And it will affect my family and I in a very negative manner.


margroc
by on Apr. 20, 2009 at 3:26 PM


Quoting Scorpio359:

Why would doctors want to be involved in inferior methods of treating people and being told what they can and what they can't do by the government? Socialism never works. Spoke to another business partner from Quebec Saturday and he gave a dire warning about universal health care and its treatment methods. He warned Armerica don't do it, you are headed for toatal disaster. You will not be given choices on whom you get as a doctor nor the specialists you need in special fields. You will loose your freedom of choice. Socialism does not work.


Your friend from Quebec is totally 100% wrong - I am Canadian - choose my own Dr.; have always received excellent care. I am hearing impaired and have always had access to top specialists - if I didn't like a specialist I would speak to my GP who would then refer me to another specialist.  True, we do have to wait longer for elective surgeries but in my experience - a father with esophageal cancer; sister with stomach cancer and a mother who had a stroke - ALL OF THEM ARE FINE AND HEALTHY TODAY.

I think when you are speaking about the quality of your Health care in the U.S. you should perhaps try speaking with someone who is lower income and cannot afford insurance.

Our health care system in Canada does have some flaws as nothing is perfect but it certainly works and works well.

Your comment re: socialism tells me that you are buying into the fear propanganda brought out by the right.  Universal Health Care is no more socialism than is a police force or fire brigade.

MelonyP
by Member on Apr. 20, 2009 at 3:30 PM

As an American living in Canada, I now have firsthand experience with universal healthcare.  At first, I was jumping for joy because my healthcare plan in the States was substandard at best.  However, once I started to learn more about the Canadian healthcare system, I began to have some serious doubts as to whether I was really better off. 

First, I moved with my infant son.  Of course, I needed a doctor for him.  As it turned out, most doctors in the area were already booked and not accepting any new patients.  I ended up getting lucky when my husband's former doctor agreed to sign us all on as patients since he had been the doctor of my husband from a very young age.  However, a lot of people are not that lucky.  The clinics & ER are filled with people who cannot find a general practitioner.  People are forced onto waiting lists in order to get a doctor.  It's ridiculous!  But even with your own doctor, you had better make appointments in advance because the chances of seeing him/her on short-term notice are slim to none.  Therefore, even people with a general practitioner still end up waiting in the long lines at clinics or the ER since they cannot get an appointment with their own doctor. 

Second, I recently found out that colon cancer is twice as deadly in Canada than in the U.S.  Why?  Because the best medication for colon cancer has been listed as "too expensive" by the Canadian government and therefore, cannot be given to patients who need it.  I have also heard the same in Britain where women with breast cancer are denited the best meds for the same reason. 

Third, there are the LONG waits for specialized attention.  Need a hip replaced?  Well, it could take months or even years!  An MRI?  Don't hold your breath!  There is a serious shortage of specialized equipment and doctors in this country and thus, people who need care now are forced to wait months or years for help.  I konw of a lady who needs a hip and knee replacement and after waiting 7 months just to see the doctor, who knows what the additional wait will be to get it done.  Meanwhile, she is in some serious pain and her life has suffered since she can barely get around and cope with the agony. 

I have also heard "rumors" that those with the money get treated first...no matter the waiting list.  Why would the government want to save someone who only makes 20k a year over someone who makes 200k (or more) ?  The same with seniors.  It seems that since they're "going to die soon anyway" & don't pay the taxes every year, they're a waste of time.  Also, those with the ability to pay in cash tend to hop the border to the U.S. for care.  Why would they do that if universal healthcare is all that it's cracked up to be? 

And let's not forget the taxes.  Universal healthcare is not free.  By far!  Every time I purchase something in the store, I get taxed twice.  Once by the province (PST) & then again by the government (GST).  I don't believe anyone wants an additional 4-5% tax on the things they buy in the U.S.  It will happen, though if you fall for the so-called "free" healthcare.  And let's not forget the "sin" tax.  Alcohol, beer, & cigarettes are double (in some cases) what they are in the U.S. 

I could go on forever :0)  If you want a great book to read, check out "America Alone" by Mark Steyn.  He explains the topic much better than I ever could and will tell you exactly why we need to beware of socialism.

Eilish
by on Apr. 20, 2009 at 3:48 PM


Quoting margroc:


Quoting Scorpio359:

Why would doctors want to be involved in inferior methods of treating people and being told what they can and what they can't do by the government? Socialism never works. Spoke to another business partner from Quebec Saturday and he gave a dire warning about universal health care and its treatment methods. He warned Armerica don't do it, you are headed for toatal disaster. You will not be given choices on whom you get as a doctor nor the specialists you need in special fields. You will loose your freedom of choice. Socialism does not work.


Your friend from Quebec is totally 100% wrong - I am Canadian - choose my own Dr.; have always received excellent care. I am hearing impaired and have always had access to top specialists - if I didn't like a specialist I would speak to my GP who would then refer me to another specialist.  True, we do have to wait longer for elective surgeries but in my experience - a father with esophageal cancer; sister with stomach cancer and a mother who had a stroke - ALL OF THEM ARE FINE AND HEALTHY TODAY.

I think when you are speaking about the quality of your Health care in the U.S. you should perhaps try speaking with someone who is lower income and cannot afford insurance.

Our health care system in Canada does have some flaws as nothing is perfect but it certainly works and works well.

Your comment re: socialism tells me that you are buying into the fear propanganda brought out by the right.  Universal Health Care is no more socialism than is a police force or fire brigade.

Actually it isn't propaganda since it's the truth.


sassyandy124
by Bronze Member on Apr. 20, 2009 at 3:51 PM

     There are many reason that gov't funded health care is not good. I won't go into all of them Elish and other pp's did a good job. I will say this. to see how it will "work" in America you only have to look at military and veterans care. That is what they receive, gov't funded health care. It is substandard in so many ways I can't even tell you. I encourage everyone to do some research, see what the UHC countries DO NOT Tell you. GO to a veteran's hospital, see the sad state that most buildings and patients are in. I personally know lots of vets and active duty personnel that pay out of pocket for their own insurance so they don't have to rely on the gov't.

   


 

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