Join the Meeting Place for Moms!
Talk to other moms, share advice, and have fun!

(minimum 6 characters)

Current Events & Hot Topics Current Events & Hot Topics

2-year-old killed by Indiana deputy’s gun. UPDATE 4/24/09.

Posted by   + Show Post

 

http://www.indystar.com/article/20090422/LOCAL/90422016
 
MILLTOWN, Ind. — Police say a southern Indiana toddler accidentally shot herself to death with a handgun belonging to her stepfather, who is a reserve deputy with the Crawford County Sheriff’s Department.

State Police say 2-year-old Alexis B. Camp was in a bedroom with her stepfather, Jared Conrad, and her mother Jessica when the gun discharged Monday evening.

Crawford County Deputy Coroner Jerry Brown ruled that the girl died from an accidental self inflicted gun shot wound to the head.

Investigators say the semiautomatic handgun belonging to Conrad was left where the girl could reach it at the home near Milltown, about 30 miles northwest of Louisville, Ky.

Investigators will give their findings to the Crawford County prosecutor’s office for review.

 

 

 

My question: Should these adults be charged with a negligent homicide for leaving a loaded gun within a child's reach resulting in her death? ... or is the death of their child punishment enough? 

UPDATE:  The Indianapolis Star has reported since first reports were that the gun was laying on a table within the toddler's reach, it has now been determined that the ISP has released a report that it was determined the gun was between the mattress and boxsprings of the adults' bed and within the toddler's reach.  The gun was a Glock with a trigger safety and a 5 lb. pull standard.  

Change any minds?

Sherri
by on Apr. 23, 2009 at 9:14 PM
Replies (41-48):
PurdueMom
by Sherri on Apr. 27, 2009 at 9:30 AM


Quoting cdgoldilocks:

 

Quoting lvnmylif:

Yes they should both be charged because I don't think they are telling the truth about the situation.  There is no way with a trigger safety and a five pound pull that a child could have just snuck in with her parents unaware and shot herself before they had a chance to stop her.   I can't say what exactly happened but both of them need to be charged for allowing her child to play with a loaded weapon.  And if they had legislation for being a complete fucking idiot that would be great too.


This is what makes me feel VERY uneasy about this situation. Being a deputy, I KNOW he has taken gun safety courses. Why wasn't the safety on? How did this 2 year old strong enough to pull the trigger?

One of the investigators interviewed on the news stated she was holding the gun with the barrel facing her and pressed the trigger with both thumbs shooting herself in the head.  She was killed instantly.  Both parents were in the room, but it happened before either noticed or could react in time to take the gun away from her.  Very, very tragic.

Sherri
ColtsFan1912
by Bronze Member on Apr. 27, 2009 at 11:25 AM

how sad. I got nightmares from that image


Quoting PurdueMom:


Quoting cdgoldilocks:


Quoting lvnmylif:

Yes they should both be charged because I don't think they are telling the truth about the situation.  There is no way with a trigger safety and a five pound pull that a child could have just snuck in with her parents unaware and shot herself before they had a chance to stop her.   I can't say what exactly happened but both of them need to be charged for allowing her child to play with a loaded weapon.  And if they had legislation for being a complete fucking idiot that would be great too.


This is what makes me feel VERY uneasy about this situation. Being a deputy, I KNOW he has taken gun safety courses. Why wasn't the safety on? How did this 2 year old strong enough to pull the trigger?

One of the investigators interviewed on the news stated she was holding the gun with the barrel facing her and pressed the trigger with both thumbs shooting herself in the head.  She was killed instantly.  Both parents were in the room, but it happened before either noticed or could react in time to take the gun away from her.  Very, very tragic.


"angels pass me by when I look into your blue eyes. . .To sum it up all in one, I can't help but loving you, reminders of finer things so pure you were sure they would crumble & break, but so beautiful you knew they could not..perfect down to the last eyelash" Element 101.

cdgoldilocks
by Bronze Member on Apr. 27, 2009 at 12:04 PM

Well, what happens when something like this happens in Indiana? I think the Deputy and his wife should be treated no better and no worse than the average citizen. If the standard is to charge the parents, then that is what should happen. If the standard is to make them take safety classes or be on probation, perhaps that is what should happen.

If this were my child, no punishment would be worse than the one that I would impose upon myself. In fact, I would probably be asking someone to shoot me, as I would feel I deserve it. That mother probably feels like the worst mother on the planet, and is probably replaying those moments over and over and over in her mind. She has to walk around the house with all of her dd's toys, photos. Someone, maybe even her, will have to clean up her own baby's blood out of that house. Can you even imagine?

When I was about 15, some little kids were playing in a parked car in their back yard 2 houses away. Usually that car had blocks behind the wheels to keep it from rolling, but the dad had been working on it and had not put them back. So, one of the kids set the car into gear somehow and it rolled over a 1 1/2-2 year old and the tire was sitting on her head. I heard the car hit the gate and ran over, as it was very loud and I could hear kids. The kid was clearly dead. I tried to lift the car off of her head, but I simply could not lift a car off a kid. I started screaming for help, and a neighbor came over with a jack. The mother and father ran from the house and saw their dd clearly dead. The thing I MOST remember from that moment is the WAILING. I cannot begin to describe it. It haunts me to this day. Keep in mind I am a nurse and have been around many people who have lost loved ones. The wailing from that day was so very different. It was a mixture of agony, guilt, pain, and so much more in a sound that said more than words ever could. I don't remember if they went to jail, but I CAN tell you those parents had blocks every time I saw that car except that day.

2egbhgx.jpg Eleanor Roosevelt image by whatadollx3


A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you have. -Barry Goldwater

pride4mom
by on Apr. 27, 2009 at 12:14 PM

My biggest problem is he is a cop. He knows what it is like to use thsi gun himself to kill someone. He should have a PLACE to keep this weapon at all times.........WHY was this gun just laying between the mattress? And there is NO-WAY a 2 year old pulled that trigger...Sorry but somebody is being covered for......HE is a STEP-DAD and she is a BITCH....JMO.....Angel

Godgaveme4
by Platinum Member on Apr. 27, 2009 at 12:24 PM

I beg to differ.  I think 2 yrs is starting a little too late.  Teaching a child to respact a firearm or any other weapon is the same as teaching them that a stove is hot. Yopu don't all of a sudden decide that age 5 is a good age to start talking about bike safety.  You teach them when they first sit on a tri-cycle.  Same with a stove or oven, you don't teach them how to be safe aound it when you see they are old enough to start using it.  over the years you tell them it is hot.

When our kids were sitting on Dads lap and would either feel the gun in the holster or see Dad getting his gear together to go to the range, we would tell them NO-NO touch.  Ouch.  We would use words they understood.  As they got a little older we would slowly introduce them to new aspects.  My now 4 yr old has been shooting a child-size .22 (with the help of her dad since she was 2 1/2)

That does not mean we leave guns laying around.  They are put away.  My husbands gun is the only one that is always loaded.  And well that is the one he carries.  At night he puts it up away from the kids but easily reached by him just in case.  We do not use trigger locks because they are actually rediculous and stupid.  But that is our opinion (and many other gun owners opinions).

Quoting PurdueMom:
Quoting Godgaveme4:

. . .

As for letting my kids touch, see, and use guns, I am being a responsible parent.  Because guns are part of their everyday life they are not curious.  Because they get to go to the range and shoot, they are not curious.  Because they know what happens when a gun is fired they are not curious.  The kids I worry about are the ones that have never learned about guns.  They are the ones that are curious and will pick up a gun and do what they see on TV, in Games, or in the movies.  So this may not be an approach you would choose to take, but we are very confident in it. 

I understand this could be true with older children, even those as young as four.  However, did you leave loaded guns laying around when your children were 2 years old or younger?   Is it possible to teach a 2 yo toddler about gun safety?   No, it's not.  They are too young to comprehend the seriousness or consequences of gun play.  That's why this case is not a tragic accident, but parental negligence. 


Godgaveme4
by Platinum Member on Apr. 27, 2009 at 12:30 PM

Cops are not perfect, they are just men or women like you and me. 

Quoting pride4mom:

My biggest problem is he is a cop. He knows what it is like to use thsi gun himself to kill someone. He should have a PLACE to keep this weapon at all times.........WHY was this gun just laying between the mattress? And there is NO-WAY a 2 year old pulled that trigger...Sorry but somebody is being covered for......HE is a STEP-DAD and she is a BITCH....JMO.....Angel

B.A.G.
by on Apr. 27, 2009 at 12:34 PM

i dont care if the gun was on a table or hidden in the matress. those parents should be charged. period. i would think that a cop would have a little more common sense than that. ugh. if you have children in the house, you get a safe. period. something that locks and a child could not get ahold of. but maybe thats not common sense. 

PurdueMom
by Sherri on Apr. 28, 2009 at 12:02 AM


Quoting Godgaveme4:

 

Quoting PurdueMom: 

I understand this could be true with older children, even those as young as four.  However, did you leave loaded guns laying around when your children were 2 years old or younger?   Is it possible to teach a 2 yo toddler about gun safety?   No, it's not.  They are too young to comprehend the seriousness or consequences of gun play.  That's why this case is not a tragic accident, but parental negligence. 

I beg to differ.  I think 2 yrs is starting a little too late.  Teaching a child to respact a firearm or any other weapon is the same as teaching them that a stove is hot. Yopu don't all of a sudden decide that age 5 is a good age to start talking about bike safety.  You teach them when they first sit on a tri-cycle.  Same with a stove or oven, you don't teach them how to be safe aound it when you see they are old enough to start using it.  over the years you tell them it is hot.

When our kids were sitting on Dads lap and would either feel the gun in the holster or see Dad getting his gear together to go to the range, we would tell them NO-NO touch.  Ouch.  We would use words they understood.  As they got a little older we would slowly introduce them to new aspects.  My now 4 yr old has been shooting a child-size .22 (with the help of her dad since she was 2 1/2)

That does not mean we leave guns laying around.  They are put away.  My husbands gun is the only one that is always loaded.  And well that is the one he carries.  At night he puts it up away from the kids but easily reached by him just in case.  We do not use trigger locks because they are actually rediculous and stupid.  But that is our opinion (and many other gun owners opinions).


I disagree with you that a two year old can comprehend that a stove can burn or that a gun can kill.  I also taught my daughters as soon as they were mobile that the stove is a no-no, but I didn't test it and leave them alone in the kitchen with something cooking on the stove.   2 yos do not understand that their actions have consequences unless they experience it.  I would put my girls' hands close to a hot burner so they can feel the heat and understand the word "hot", but how do you teach a 2 yo about gun no-nos - shoot them in the foot? 

I'm glad to know you didn't leave guns laying around, but I don't understand why you are defending parents who do. 

Sherri
Add your quick reply below:
You must be a member to reply to this post.
Join the Meeting Place for Moms!
Talk to other moms, share advice, and have fun!

(minimum 6 characters)