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2-year-old killed by Indiana deputy’s gun. UPDATE 4/24/09.

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http://www.indystar.com/article/20090422/LOCAL/90422016
 
MILLTOWN, Ind. — Police say a southern Indiana toddler accidentally shot herself to death with a handgun belonging to her stepfather, who is a reserve deputy with the Crawford County Sheriff’s Department.

State Police say 2-year-old Alexis B. Camp was in a bedroom with her stepfather, Jared Conrad, and her mother Jessica when the gun discharged Monday evening.

Crawford County Deputy Coroner Jerry Brown ruled that the girl died from an accidental self inflicted gun shot wound to the head.

Investigators say the semiautomatic handgun belonging to Conrad was left where the girl could reach it at the home near Milltown, about 30 miles northwest of Louisville, Ky.

Investigators will give their findings to the Crawford County prosecutor’s office for review.

 

 

 

My question: Should these adults be charged with a negligent homicide for leaving a loaded gun within a child's reach resulting in her death? ... or is the death of their child punishment enough? 

UPDATE:  The Indianapolis Star has reported since first reports were that the gun was laying on a table within the toddler's reach, it has now been determined that the ISP has released a report that it was determined the gun was between the mattress and boxsprings of the adults' bed and within the toddler's reach.  The gun was a Glock with a trigger safety and a 5 lb. pull standard.  

Change any minds?

Sherri
by on Apr. 23, 2009 at 9:14 PM
Replies (31-40):
Biancas_mommy
by Bronze Member on Apr. 26, 2009 at 2:50 PM

My almost 2 year old does the same thigng!!!!  if there is candy anywhere in the house she knows and she doesnt stop till she gets it. 

Quoting Godgaveme4:

Let me introduce you to my son.  When he was 1 1/2  he started scaling shelves to get what he wants.  Nothing was too high.  In fact the higher you put it, the better you tried to hide the more challenged he felt.

I use to put stuff on top of my fridge to keep it out of reach.  We have no stools in tour kitchen so I felt pretty confident that it was out of reach.  Oh no.  I walkend into the kitchen and he had climbed up the drawers, onto the cabinet and onto the microwave to get whatever was up there.  He was 2.  None of my other kids ever did that. He is just more adventurous and curious than the others.

My point is that you can think your house is very baby proofed or kid proofed.  But nothing is ever 100%.  Your child will surprise you with what they will find.

 

Quoting BabyGracesMommy:

Wow, you keep knives, buy spray, and hair care products where your two year old can reach(I don't know if you have one but I do have a 2 year old)? I DO NOT EVER keep these things in reach of my child, so I would ABSOLUTELY deserve jail time if my daughter ever got ahold of any of those things (EVEN IF SHE WASN'T HURT BY THEM!!!!), as then I clearly would be nuts to leave those things out like that, all those things are up high in my house, and will continue to be, I can't believe some people!

Quoting Scorpio359:

No they should not be charged, they are living in hell now knowing what happened. What if you had a knife in your kitchen and your 2 year old grabbed it and fell on it. Would you want to be put in jail? Pretty soon everything will be a weapon. A can of bug spray can kill a toddler if inhaled. Your nail polish, your hair products, cleaning supplies, plastic wrap, can all be weapons.  What if you ran over your child backing out of your driveway? They will suffer the rest of their lives but maybe this will be a wake up call for all parents.

 

 


zava_t
by on Apr. 26, 2009 at 2:50 PM

He is an adult and a police officer. If anyone should know proper gun safety, it should be him. Of course he should be charged. If the mother knew the gun was within reach, she should be charged as well. This is a so sad. I know they both must be going through some terrible emotions right now and after a loss like that I hate thinking that they should be punished, but this tragedy could have been avoided.

 

I'm on the south side too....Southport/Beech Grove area!


Quoting PurdueMom:


Quoting Junebug926:

I live in Indy. This story is just so sad and so senseless. :(

I think the parents should be charged. Part of being a parent who is a gun owner is accepting the responsibility of keeping the gun away from the child. There are punishments set aside if you don't.


I'm a Southsider (Greenwood/Southport area).  What side of town do you live?


PurdueMom
by Sherri on Apr. 26, 2009 at 3:00 PM


Quoting zava_t:

He is an adult and a police officer. If anyone should know proper gun safety, it should be him. Of course he should be charged. If the mother knew the gun was within reach, she should be charged as well. This is a so sad. I know they both must be going through some terrible emotions right now and after a loss like that I hate thinking that they should be punished, but this tragedy could have been avoided.

 

I'm on the south side too....Southport/Beech Grove area!

 

Quoting PurdueMom:


Quoting Junebug926:

I live in Indy. This story is just so sad and so senseless. :(

I think the parents should be charged. Part of being a parent who is a gun owner is accepting the responsibility of keeping the gun away from the child. There are punishments set aside if you don't.


I'm a Southsider (Greenwood/Southport area).  What side of town do you live?

 


I currently live in Columbus, IN, but it's my temporary home until I move back to Indy in a couple of years.   My daughter lives in Southport, and I travel to St. Francis for my job almost daily.  I miss it and can't wait to get back!

Small world, isn't it?

 

Sherri
Jerichos_Mommy
by Member on Apr. 26, 2009 at 6:35 PM

Yes chilkdren die in unfrtunate accidents everyday as a PP said, but a gun being left in a 2 year old's reach is negligent.  Yes these parents are suffering, if they are telling the truth, but they were negligent and should be charged.  As to the punishment I would like to see them give seminars/classes about gun safety and their dangers to children to parents and school aged kids.  This way maybe this baby's death won't have been in vain.


To the PP who knows her house is 100% baby proof, think again.  My now 22 yo was about 2.5 years when he manged to unlatch a closet door, climb 3 shelves to reach the cupboard above it, inlatch it (both were hook and eye latches with the spring you pull back first, get his children's vitamins with saftey cap, climb down, open it and start eatting them.  Where was I in the kitchen putting pasta in boiling water for lunch.  I left him in the bedroom playing and caught him in the hallway total time lapse maybe 2 minutes max. 


There is no 100% baby-proof it doesn't exist.

BabyGracesMommy
by Member on Apr. 26, 2009 at 11:16 PM

Well I think it's naive to think you can let your child hold a gun and touch knives and have them never get hurt. That is silly, I can't believe that you would let your child do such things, that is plain stupid.  wont be suprised to heard of a terrible accident at your house on the news, but you better believe you'll never hear about an accident with my family. To another poster, come and see MY house before you say it isn't 100% baby proofed, it is there is NOTHING my child can get hurt on, come on over, I'll show you how it's done. My vitamins (I can't believe you left those out like that, even high up), cleaners, knives, buy spray, sun screen, body sprays, all tha is in my safe, even my needles, and this safe is bolted down up high in a closet, I DARE you to find one thing in my home my child can get hurt on.

Quoting Godgaveme4:

 

Quoting BabyGracesMommy:

You never heard of cabinet locks then? Seriously, my daughter is a climber too, but A. the house IS 100% babyproofed, and B. My daughter is never out of my site. And if you say he could undo cabinet locks and door locks (which I will never believe a two year old is able to do unless they were not properly installed.) then why not use two? Why not do anything you can to keep your child safe? Throw out the knives, keep your cleaners and shampoo in a safe, you CAN keep that stuff out of reach of a child, my child has tried, and failed to reach unsafe things in my home. I just feel like you didn't put things away so that they would be "convenient" for you, don't tell me your son would have broken into a safe, which in the instance of this terrible story, is were that gun should have been.

Quoting Godgaveme4:

I am glad you think your house is 100% safe for your child.  You sound like you have made some choices that work for your family.  We did the same with our first.  But decided that was not working for us or how we wanted to handle thing. 

My kids have free reign of the house.  They are told No-No if they get into something they should not. Of course we keep the cleaners under the sink or in the garage.  We do not keep knick knacks or other stuff out of reach because they need to learn to live with those things all of their live not just when they turn 4.  My 4 yr old started unloading the silverware last year.  And guess what there are knives in there.  She was told she has to let us put them away and if she finds one to let us know.  So now she yells KNIFE! when she comes across one.

And now for the guns.  We do not keep all of our guns in a safe.  My husband conceals and carries so he has one on him at all times.  My kids are used to this.  They sit with him when he cleans it.  He haas taught them what it looks like when it is unloaded.  And he has taught them to ask if it is unloaded.  Our kids are given the opportunity to hold the gun whenever they ask to.  We have chosen to educate and make our children familiar and comfortable with guns.

Is there a chance that an accident could happen at our house?  Yes.  To say your house is completely safe is naive.  Our choices have nothing to do with making things convientent for us.  It has everything to do with keeping our kids safe and educating them as they grow.

 

 

Godgaveme4
by Platinum Member on Apr. 26, 2009 at 11:49 PM

Unless you wrap your child up in bubble wrap thay will get hurt.  There is no possible way to keep them safe all of the time.

First lets talk about the knives.  Yes we let our kids use butter knoves to cut their food.  They like to be independent.  And i am okay with them learning how to be independent, especially under our watchful eye.  It usually ends up being a mess, but they are very proud of themselves.

As for letting my kids touch, see, and use guns, I am being a responsible parent.  Because guns are part of their everyday life they are not curious.  Because they get to go to the range and shoot, they are not curious.  Because they know what happens when a gun is fired they are not curious.  The kids I worry about are the ones that have never learned about guns.  They are the ones that are curious and will pick up a gun and do what they see on TV, in Games, or in the movies.  So this may not be an approach you would choose to take, but we are very confident in it. 

Quoting BabyGracesMommy:

Well I think it's naive to think you can let your child hold a gun and touch knives and have them never get hurt. That is silly, I can't believe that you would let your child do such things, that is plain stupid.  wont be suprised to heard of a terrible accident at your house on the news, but you better believe you'll never hear about an accident with my family. To another poster, come and see MY house before you say it isn't 100% baby proofed, it is there is NOTHING my child can get hurt on, come on over, I'll show you how it's done. My vitamins (I can't believe you left those out like that, even high up), cleaners, knives, buy spray, sun screen, body sprays, all tha is in my safe, even my needles, and this safe is bolted down up high in a closet, I DARE you to find one thing in my home my child can get hurt on.

Quoting Godgaveme4:


Quoting BabyGracesMommy:

You never heard of cabinet locks then? Seriously, my daughter is a climber too, but A. the house IS 100% babyproofed, and B. My daughter is never out of my site. And if you say he could undo cabinet locks and door locks (which I will never believe a two year old is able to do unless they were not properly installed.) then why not use two? Why not do anything you can to keep your child safe? Throw out the knives, keep your cleaners and shampoo in a safe, you CAN keep that stuff out of reach of a child, my child has tried, and failed to reach unsafe things in my home. I just feel like you didn't put things away so that they would be "convenient" for you, don't tell me your son would have broken into a safe, which in the instance of this terrible story, is were that gun should have been.

Quoting Godgaveme4:

I am glad you think your house is 100% safe for your child.  You sound like you have made some choices that work for your family.  We did the same with our first.  But decided that was not working for us or how we wanted to handle thing. 

My kids have free reign of the house.  They are told No-No if they get into something they should not. Of course we keep the cleaners under the sink or in the garage.  We do not keep knick knacks or other stuff out of reach because they need to learn to live with those things all of their live not just when they turn 4.  My 4 yr old started unloading the silverware last year.  And guess what there are knives in there.  She was told she has to let us put them away and if she finds one to let us know.  So now she yells KNIFE! when she comes across one.

And now for the guns.  We do not keep all of our guns in a safe.  My husband conceals and carries so he has one on him at all times.  My kids are used to this.  They sit with him when he cleans it.  He haas taught them what it looks like when it is unloaded.  And he has taught them to ask if it is unloaded.  Our kids are given the opportunity to hold the gun whenever they ask to.  We have chosen to educate and make our children familiar and comfortable with guns.

Is there a chance that an accident could happen at our house?  Yes.  To say your house is completely safe is naive.  Our choices have nothing to do with making things convientent for us.  It has everything to do with keeping our kids safe and educating them as they grow.




cdgoldilocks
by Bronze Member on Apr. 26, 2009 at 11:53 PM


Quoting lvnmylif:

Yes they should both be charged because I don't think they are telling the truth about the situation.  There is no way with a trigger safety and a five pound pull that a child could have just snuck in with her parents unaware and shot herself before they had a chance to stop her.   I can't say what exactly happened but both of them need to be charged for allowing her child to play with a loaded weapon.  And if they had legislation for being a complete fucking idiot that would be great too.


This is what makes me feel VERY uneasy about this situation. Being a deputy, I KNOW he has taken gun safety courses. Why wasn't the safety on? How did this 2 year old strong enough to pull the trigger?

2egbhgx.jpg Eleanor Roosevelt image by whatadollx3


A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you have. -Barry Goldwater

Godgaveme4
by Platinum Member on Apr. 26, 2009 at 11:53 PM


Quoting Jerichos_Mommy:

Yes chilkdren die in unfrtunate accidents everyday as a PP said, but a gun being left in a 2 year old's reach is negligent.  Yes these parents are suffering, if they are telling the truth, but they were negligent and should be charged.  As to the punishment I would like to see them give seminars/classes about gun safety and their dangers to children to parents and school aged kids.  This way maybe this baby's death won't have been in vain.


To the PP who knows her house is 100% baby proof, think again.  My now 22 yo was about 2.5 years when he manged to unlatch a closet door, climb 3 shelves to reach the cupboard above it, inlatch it (both were hook and eye latches with the spring you pull back first, get his children's vitamins with saftey cap, climb down, open it and start eatting them.  Where was I in the kitchen putting pasta in boiling water for lunch.  I left him in the bedroom playing and caught him in the hallway total time lapse maybe 2 minutes max. 


There is no 100% baby-proof it doesn't exist.

They are quick, creative little buggers. 

The other day my 5 year old, the climber and well lets just say his nickname is Thing 2, got into something and made a mess.  I think he filled 5 cups with water and put them all in the middle of the kitchen floor.  I was frustrated to say the least.  I said..."Jacob why did you do that?"  He replied with, "Mom, I am just doing what Jacobs do!"  How can you argue with that.  I haqd to walk out of the room to laugh before I had him clean it all up.  Fun times!

free_moments68
by New Member on Apr. 27, 2009 at 8:59 AM

The Indiana Child Access Prevention  (CAP) law of Indiana is supposed to protect our children from accidental shootings.  However, compared to the other 28 states with this law, Indiana ranks 2nd highest for accidental shootings resulting in death.  My friends son was accidentally shot and killed back in January at his friends home.  I am working on a petition for stricter guidelines for safe storage of firearms that require safety locks and holding owners criminally liable for their negligence. Indiana's partial CAP law has too many loopholes letting owners off the hook.  IF they are held liable, the maximum sentence for a child's death, get this, is 5 consecutive days in jail. Youth camps, child care facilities and child care providers are required to keep firearms locked up but there is no requirement in individual homes with minors.. Please help support this cause by writing or e-mailing ur state legislators:  http://www.in.gov/cgi-bin/legislative/contact/contact.pl

We are not asking for a gun ban but only to protect our children.

  Tammy

PurdueMom
by Sherri on Apr. 27, 2009 at 9:26 AM


Quoting Godgaveme4:

. . .

As for letting my kids touch, see, and use guns, I am being a responsible parent.  Because guns are part of their everyday life they are not curious.  Because they get to go to the range and shoot, they are not curious.  Because they know what happens when a gun is fired they are not curious.  The kids I worry about are the ones that have never learned about guns.  They are the ones that are curious and will pick up a gun and do what they see on TV, in Games, or in the movies.  So this may not be an approach you would choose to take, but we are very confident in it. 


 

I understand this could be true with older children, even those as young as four.  However, did you leave loaded guns laying around when your children were 2 years old or younger?   Is it possible to teach a 2 yo toddler about gun safety?   No, it's not.  They are too young to comprehend the seriousness or consequences of gun play.  That's why this case is not a tragic accident, but parental negligence. 

Sherri
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