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Hot Topic (4/26): What do you think happens to us after we die?

Do you believe in heaven...or hell...or reincarnation?

Or, do you think nothing happens...when it's over it's over?

 

 

praying

 

 





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by on Apr. 26, 2009 at 4:11 AM
Replies (51-60):
momaof8
by Bronze Member on Apr. 27, 2009 at 7:19 PM

The people who have  the prestige make more money hence the drive to get published. Therefore they profit from it, but that does not nullify the work they have done. None of them work for free or publish simply for glory. The more published the more money. Any way I really don't mind what others believe to each their own. I do however find alot of the research done pretty compelling.

Quoting PurdueMom:


Quoting momaof8:

The New England journal of medicine draws a profit as do all of the DR.s who participate. Profit does not nulify something. Ketamin doesnot explain someone accurately describing things they couldn't have seen or known durring incapacitation. What about the results of Kubler Ross who was originally ostrisized for her research? 


The New England Journal of Medicine is a peer-review medical journal.  Researchers and physicians who publish in NEJM are not paid and are required to reveal financial disclosure (for example, if the study is regarding a medication made by Lily and Lily funded the study, the author must reveal that information.)   The NEJM makes its money from subscriptions and advertising, but does not pay for its articles, nor does it endorse any product that advertises in its journal.  Physicians publish in the NEJM for the prestige of it, not for profit.

Profit doesn't nullify a study or a finding, you are right... but it might put its authenticity or motive in question, especially in this field of study where fraud is common (not meaning to insult legitimate researchers, but meaning people like John Edwards and his ilk.)

Actually, there are several reports of people having OBEs who can accurately describe things not seemingly possible - and they were not near death, but experimenting with drugs or in an anoxic or dream-like state.  I can't explain it, there are still so many mysteries we have not discovered regarding the human brain.  Telepathy?  Astral projection?  It's fascinating, I'll give you that, but I believe eventually it will be discovered all NDEs and OBEs etc have a physiological explanation.  I just can't relate it to anything "spiritual" or religious in my mind.

I remember studying Elizabeth Kubler-Ross in college and the stages of grief and dying, but I really cannot give an educated opinion on her studies regarding NDEs.  Many pioneers in controversial research are ridiculed and criticized for their works in the beginning.  While many study her research and revere her work, she has many critics and her theories have not been proven beyond a doubt.  If they had, we wouldn't be having this debate.  ; )


PurdueMom
by Sherri on Apr. 27, 2009 at 9:25 PM


Quoting momaof8:

The people who have  the prestige make more money hence the drive to get published. Therefore they profit from it, but that does not nullify the work they have done. None of them work for free or publish simply for glory. The more published the more money. Any way I really don't mind what others believe to each their own. I do however find alot of the research done pretty compelling.


This is not true.  I realize this is off-topic, but I feel compelled to clear this up. I've been in the medical field since 1980 and have met many physicians and read many medical journals.   I'm sure there are published physicians who can make money by being guest speakers on their given subject or land book deals or whatever, but if you have ever read a medical journal, you would see the majority who publish are physicians who saw a need for a study, found it helped their patients, and then just wanted to share what they learned with their peers, - their reward being the respect of their peers, satisfaction in helping others, and a feeling of accomplishment.  One of my best friends is a physician.  She has had several articles published and has never made a dime from them.  She makes her money from her medical practice -- and I'd be willing to bet very few of her patients even know she has been published.  She was even part of a study that resulted in a major breakthrough that lead to changes in how heart attacks are now initially treated upon presentation in the EDs across the nation.  She received recognition for her work and even had to pay her own way to the conference to except her plaque.  Hardly any profit there, lol.  

I once worked with a cardiothoracic surgeon who is nationally known among his peers for developing a minimal-invasive technique for cardiac surgery after publishing it in a cardiothoracic surgery medical journal.  We would have people travel from other states just because they wanted this technique used and him as their surgeon - and we worked in a medium-sized hospital in Southern Indiana!  I mean who comes to Indiana for surgery? lol   He was respected as one of the top in his field, however, he worked for a large cardiac surgeon group and was salaried.  While I'm sure it was a very nice salary, it was a salary nonetheless... meaning he couldn't charge more for his services just because he was published and national recognized.

Maybe the example these two have set has jaded me against physicians who write best-sellers and make millions off of a subject that cannot be definitively proven.  Like I said, I'm a natural skeptic.  I'll get off my soapbox now...  : )

Sherri    

"Knowledge of syphilis is not instruction to get it." -- Lenny Bruce

"Tact is a way of getting your point across without making an enemy." -- Unknown

"PurdueMom - She's bringing 'sexy' back." -- Justin Timberlake

pride4mom
by on Apr. 27, 2009 at 9:49 PM

I am a christian. I believe in GOD as my savior and Redeemer....He will come back and take HIS children HOME..He said I will prepare a place for YOU...That tells me he is taking me to HEAVEN my final home....I think when I die and am put in the grave...my body will stay there forever...But my soul will be asleep.....Then when it is time that JESUS returns (RAPTURE) to take his children home the graves will burst open the dead in christ.....(the christians)...will rise and meet JESUS in the aire.....the people who are living on earth no matter what you are doing will take up to the sky to be with JESUS....ONLY the wicked or the LOST the ones who claim there is NO-GOD....the ones who claim they are athiest those who are playing a most stupid game with their souls will be left here to suffer for seven years....Then it will be almost inpossible to change from what you are today to become a christian.....I also believe in my on world....IF BEING SAVED COULD BE SOLD TO PEOPLE PEOPLE WOULD BUY IT.....BUT BECAUSE GOD HAS GIVEN HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON SO EVER ONE OF US CAN BE SAVED JUST BY ASKING FOR FORGIVENESS....THEN A LOT OF PEOPLE WANT TO HOLD OUT AND THINK THEY ARE JUST TO GOOD FOR THAT.....SO  BECAUSE THEY THINK IF IT ISN'T COSTING THEM MONEY THEN IT ISN'T WORTH SOMETHING........THEN HERE COMES YOUR NUTTS WITH ALL THE EXCUSES.......GOD BLESS YOU ALL THAT FEEL THAT WAY...AND YES THERE IS A HELL......READ THE BIBLE.........

PrincessTam
by Member on Apr. 27, 2009 at 10:03 PM


Quoting sweetie00:

Likewise......laughingIm glad you feel sorry for yourself so maybe you should do something about it...

Quoting PrincessTam:

I so totally agree...he seems to be winning alot in some of these posts...I feel sorry for them...im sorry

Quoting blondekosmic15:

 

Quoting IhartU:

You decompose...

I think you simply cease to exist and rot away. I also think people made up an afterlife because they refuse to believe that we live and then we die and that's it- it scares them and so they invented a place where you go after death to continue 'life'.


The devil loves ppl. like you b/c that is when he is most powerful when he has convinced you that he does not exist. No Heaven...no Hell...no sin...no accountability. He's WON!

 

 


PrincessTam
by Member on Apr. 27, 2009 at 10:10 PM

Christianity is taking a dive in society because of non-believing people like you that have no morals and believe that we can act however they want and not pay the price for it.  That is also the reason why there is a   rise in crime statistics...eye rolling

Quoting Raintree:

Well, I like to think that there is a heaven.

Reading through these posts, it's become strikingly clear- once again- why Chistianity is taking a dive in popular society.


mamawmom
by on Apr. 28, 2009 at 2:24 AM

I HAVE BEEN A CHRISTIAN FOR MANY YEARS AND I WANT TO SAY BEING GOOD HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SALVATION.I GUESS I AM NAIVE ABOUT OTHERS BELEIFS BECAUSE I AM READING SOME THINGS THAT REALLY SUSPRISE ME.SALVATION IS A FREE GIFT FROM A GOD THAT LOVES US.THE ONLY REQUIREMENT FOR IT IS TO BELEIVE.YOU WILL HAVE A DESIRE TO 'BE GOOD'ONCE YOU ARE SAVED BUT YOU CAN NOT REACH HEAVEN JUST BY BEING GOOD.YOU WILL NEVER KNOW THE PEACE THAT COMES WITH BEING SAVED IF YOU BELEIVE THAT YOU JUST DIE AND ITS OVER.I WISH YOU COULD FEEL IN YOUR HEART WHAT IS IN MINE.THAT IS THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN EVER UNDERSTAND WHAT THIS LIFE IS ALL ABOUT.NO MATTER WHAT I TRY TO SAY HERE WILL BE TAKEN AS TRYING TO FORSE MY VEIWS ON SOMEBODY.THE BEST THING I CAN DO FOR SOME IS PRAY THAT GOD OPENS YOUR EYES TO SEE,YOUR EARS TO HEAR AND YOUR HEART TO RECEIVE.GOD BLESS AND KEEP YOU ALL.KATHY 

PrincessTam
by Member on Apr. 28, 2009 at 3:24 AM

You are awesome and your whole reply was really well written...

Quoting mamawmom:

I HAVE BEEN A CHRISTIAN FOR MANY YEARS AND I WANT TO SAY BEING GOOD HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SALVATION.I GUESS I AM NAIVE ABOUT OTHERS BELEIFS BECAUSE I AM READING SOME THINGS THAT REALLY SUSPRISE ME.SALVATION IS A FREE GIFT FROM A GOD THAT LOVES US.THE ONLY REQUIREMENT FOR IT IS TO BELEIVE.YOU WILL HAVE A DESIRE TO 'BE GOOD'ONCE YOU ARE SAVED BUT YOU CAN NOT REACH HEAVEN JUST BY BEING GOOD.YOU WILL NEVER KNOW THE PEACE THAT COMES WITH BEING SAVED IF YOU BELEIVE THAT YOU JUST DIE AND ITS OVER.I WISH YOU COULD FEEL IN YOUR HEART WHAT IS IN MINE.THAT IS THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN EVER UNDERSTAND WHAT THIS LIFE IS ALL ABOUT.NO MATTER WHAT I TRY TO SAY HERE WILL BE TAKEN AS TRYING TO FORSE MY VEIWS ON SOMEBODY.THE BEST THING I CAN DO FOR SOME IS PRAY THAT GOD OPENS YOUR EYES TO SEE,YOUR EARS TO HEAR AND YOUR HEART TO RECEIVE.GOD BLESS AND KEEP YOU ALL.KATHY 


blondekosmic15
by on Apr. 28, 2009 at 4:00 AM


Quoting Raintree:

Well, I like to think that there is a heaven.

Reading through these posts, it's become strikingly clear- once again- why Chistianity is taking a dive in popular society.


Raintree...you told me you are a Christian. Than you would have NO doubt concerning the existence of Heaven & Hell~

blondekosmic15
by on Apr. 28, 2009 at 4:17 AM

 

Quoting IhartU:

 

Quoting blondekosmic15:

 

Quoting IhartU:

 

Quoting momaof8:

I think some people are just as afraid of being held accountable for what they did with their life. So they deny the spiritual.

Quoting IhartU:

You decompose...

I think you simply cease to exist and rot away. I also think people made up an afterlife because they refuse to believe that we live and then we die and that's it- it scares them and so they invented a place where you go after death to continue 'life'.

 

So are you saying people are only good because they fear being sent to hell in the afterlife then? I've seen people say this isn't true- they don't believe out of fear, but out of love for their God, so which is it? Huh?

I for one am totally fine with what I've done in my life. I know some things were bad and some were good. I've made peace with the bad, used it as a learning experience and it's made me a better person. I will go to my grave knowing I lived my life the best way I could and not fearing whether I'll wake up in the pits of hell or skating on streets of gold in heaven.

See... I'm free from religious dogma, and therefore free to actually enjoy the one life I've been given without having to constantly wonder if I'm living up to the standards of some god.


 

Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. This is Scriptural. God truly understands our human weakness & the fall of Adam & Eve...he created us. This does not refer to a crippling fear preventing us from living our lives accordingly.This particular Scripture refers to the daily struggles we endure & all the temptations we experience.....having a reverencial fear of the God who created us will award us the strength to persevere & combat the temptations of the devil against us. I have many Christian friends who sincerely love God & their deep love of God is the primary reason they strive to be good...not the fear you are asking about. If one truly loves God * a reverencial { respectful } fear of Him is a grace He grants us during our journey home to Him~

My father a strict Military man raised 7 children expecting us to listen to him & obey him to help keep us out of trouble + to teach us stability & the difference between right n' wrong. We obeyed him not only b/c we loved him as our dad but b/c we fully realized the consequences of our actions if we failed to listen to him. He kept us on the straight n' narrow for the most part due to the respectful fear we had of him~

So it's like saying I have to come home and beat my dog, or punish her for no reason because without that pain and fear, she could in no way shape or form understand how much I love her or why I am the way I am. Also, because her great grandmother chewed up a shoe, she must be punished because that badness is in her blood and whether she deserves it or not, she must be held accountable for that act perpetrated by that dog so many years ago. You and your god have what boils down to an abusive relationship whether you want to admit it or not. You allow him to manipulate, punish and put you through suffering because some book tells you that unless you hit rock bottom and are totally feeling like crap, you can never know love...

Funny thing is, this is anything but love and it pains me to see you make excuses for it.

If you truly love God you will carry your crosses { your daily sufferings } for the sake of imitating Jesus Christ so God may form you into the image & likeness of His Son~+

"And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple" (Luke 14:27)

I wish you could step outside yourself for once and see just how ridiculous you sound sometimes. I hate to tell you this but all your regurgitated versus and biblical mythology are just things that have been drilled into your head and twisted so you can try to validate the insane quality of your religion and beliefs.

Yes, taught to me by the Holy Spirit...the wisest of the wise mam. Jesus warned Christians about non-believers. The wisdom of God will be foolishness to the world { ppl. such as yourself } the wisdom of this world will be foolishness to God+

I'm done arguing with you and I hope one day YOU will see the TRUTH, be set free from the lies and realize that you CAN live a happy, fulfilled life without a god. Trust in yourself, love yourself and take responsibility for your own actions- not out of fear or a promise of an afterlife but out of respect for your fellow man, your family and yourself.

I am sorry you feel the need to distort & falsify my words when I have explained in simple terms & offered a common ex. for you concerning the authority figure of my father expressing my respective belief in God but you continue to refuse to understand my Christian faith. It seemingly is easier for you to belittle my words &  twist them for the sake of boosting your own inability to understand. No reason to further this conversation!

Jesus Christ IS the Way...the Truth...the Life...NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER BUT THRU ME * NO ONE enters Heaven but thru JESUS CHRIST~+ John 14:6

momaof8
by Bronze Member on Apr. 28, 2009 at 6:59 AM

Then you have met two very honorable doctors sadly the majority are not like this. The top docs working in the most high paid areas and jobs also carry the most prestige. Getting published is almost a requirement. The better published and well known you are the more in demand in your field you are, the more money you make. If your an average Joe with no health coverage your not getting in to a top doc in Manhattan lol. Unless he is feeling generous, or needs you as part of a study lol. Anyway we have strayed far enough . As I said before Iam live and let live. So think as you like. To each their own.

Quoting PurdueMom:


Quoting momaof8:

The people who have  the prestige make more money hence the drive to get published. Therefore they profit from it, but that does not nullify the work they have done. None of them work for free or publish simply for glory. The more published the more money. Any way I really don't mind what others believe to each their own. I do however find alot of the research done pretty compelling.


This is not true.  I realize this is off-topic, but I feel compelled to clear this up. I've been in the medical field since 1980 and have met many physicians and read many medical journals.   I'm sure there are published physicians who can make money by being guest speakers on their given subject or land book deals or whatever, but if you have ever read a medical journal, you would see the majority who publish are physicians who saw a need for a study, found it helped their patients, and then just wanted to share what they learned with their peers, - their reward being the respect of their peers, satisfaction in helping others, and a feeling of accomplishment.  One of my best friends is a physician.  She has had several articles published and has never made a dime from them.  She makes her money from her medical practice -- and I'd be willing to bet very few of her patients even know she has been published.  She was even part of a study that resulted in a major breakthrough that lead to changes in how heart attacks are now initially treated upon presentation in the EDs across the nation.  She received recognition for her work and even had to pay her own way to the conference to except her plaque.  Hardly any profit there, lol.  

I once worked with a cardiothoracic surgeon who is nationally known among his peers for developing a minimal-invasive technique for cardiac surgery after publishing it in a cardiothoracic surgery medical journal.  We would have people travel from other states just because they wanted this technique used and him as their surgeon - and we worked in a medium-sized hospital in Southern Indiana!  I mean who comes to Indiana for surgery? lol   He was respected as one of the top in his field, however, he worked for a large cardiac surgeon group and was salaried.  While I'm sure it was a very nice salary, it was a salary nonetheless... meaning he couldn't charge more for his services just because he was published and national recognized.

Maybe the example these two have set has jaded me against physicians who write best-sellers and make millions off of a subject that cannot be definitively proven.  Like I said, I'm a natural skeptic.  I'll get off my soapbox now...  : )

Sherri    


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