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According to an Israeli, it is America and our billions of support that makes the Jews unsafe.

Posted by on May. 8, 2009 at 12:21 PM
  • 6 Replies

Dear Gypsyuma,

 

I write to you as a Jewish woman who is both American and Israeli. I have lived

in Israel for over 50 years, and I can tell you that I have had enough of wars

and insecurity.

America keeps on sending us billions of dollars in weapons every year. And yet,

Israel has become the least safe country for Jews to live in (except for war zones such as Afghanistan, where no one is safe).

  • Nowhere else in the world since WWII have we Jews lived through 12

wars/battles/campaigns--all in less that 61 years.

  • Nowhere else in the world since WWII have so many Jews been killed

in violence--over 23,000 since Israel came into being.

  • Nowhere else in the world have so many Jews been injured.

And yet, we have no security.  61 years of the use of force have not brought us

Israelis one iota of security.

To make matters worse, those of us who are seeking peace find ourselves

harassed by the Israeli police. A number of my colleagues have had their

computers confiscated, been called to interrogations, or have been made to

sign declarations forbidding them to talk with one another. To add insult to

injury, the police actions were carried out on Israel's Memorial Day to send a

subtle message to the public that our activism may compromise Israel's security.

Our crime? We dared to ask questions. We dared to ask whether militarism was

the only way. We are undeterred. We will continue asking.

It is your time to ask too.

If you are an American, please take a moment right now to call on Congress

to ask the question: what happened with your US tax dollars in Gaza?

If you live in another country, ask yourself whether your government is involved

in this trade of weapons and destruction.

Here in Israel, we do not need more US weapons.  We need you to help us

achieve peace-real peace.

There can be no peace, however, until the Palestinians have justice.  The

Palestinian catastrophe since 1948 has included expulsion from their homes and

 lands, and for those who remained in the West Bank and Gaza, extra-judicial

executions, land confiscations, no freedom of movement, nor the freedom to

build homes and communities, Palestinians live always with the fear of Israeli

military incursions.  Since September 29, 2000 Israel has killed 6,248

Palestinians. 1,487 of these have been children.

Israel's Memorial Day is the saddest day in the year for me, not only because

of those who are already buried, but because of all those who might be killed

for generations to come unless you help us achieve a just peace.

Sincerely,

A 77 year old grandmother who immensely wants her grandchildren and all the

children in the area to have a future to look forward to.


 


 

by on May. 8, 2009 at 12:21 PM
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Replies (1-6):
stormcris
by Christy on May. 8, 2009 at 12:47 PM

What Palestinians want is not what this letter states. They do not want peace they want to be able to walk into Haifa and then choose to leave because they can not because they must. It is a feeling of entitlement that has not been seen before with refugees and even if they got that it would not be enough. They want further to be vindicated and as we have seen from history no one can ever truly be vindicated. Palestinians are no more than what we had of freed slaves after the Civil War and you see where that has gone. Until a culture, a race, or a group understands that there is not justice beyond what they can give to themselves, there is no hope for the future.

Gypsyuma
by Gold Member on May. 8, 2009 at 2:24 PM


Quoting stormcris:

What Palestinians want is not what this letter states. They do not want peace they want to be able to walk into Haifa and then choose to leave because they can not because they must. It is a feeling of entitlement that has not been seen before with refugees and even if they got that it would not be enough. They want further to be vindicated and as we have seen from history no one can ever truly be vindicated. Palestinians are no more than what we had of freed slaves after the Civil War and you see where that has gone. Until a culture, a race, or a group understands that there is not justice beyond what they can give to themselves, there is no hope for the future.


I have no clue what you just said.

But since you brought up their refugee status....

The definition of refugee is:

A person seeking refuge in a foreign country out of fear of political persecution or the prospect of such persecution in his home country.

The West Bank is not a foreign country - they are still in thier own country.  Their "home country" is still there - it has just been renamed Israel and they are not allowed to return there.

SO HOW CAN YOU SAY THE PALESTINIANS ARE REFUGEES?

On the other hand.... the definition of concentration camp is:

a place where prisoners of war, enemy aliens, and political prisoners are placed under armed guards.

The Palestinians were deemed "enemy aliens" in their own country and herded into these camps, and the armed guards REMAIN TILL TODAY.

THe West Bank and Gaza are the longest running concentration camps ever  -- if it were the reverse and it were the Jews placed in the camps, would you feel the same way?

Why is it ok to hold the Palestinians for more than 60 years in a concentration camp, yet when the Jews were liberated from theirs there was a universal cry of "NEVER AGAIN".  Well, guess what?  It is AGAIN right now.


 

stormcris
by Christy on May. 8, 2009 at 3:10 PM

Palestinians in Beirut consider themselves to be refugess. They have jobs and life and much like the Jewish people had to do during WWII who escaped Nazi Germany. I never said it was fair I only said that this letter states wanting of one thing when the majority want to return to Haifa and know without the guns from the US they would fall entirely. The guns are outside the fact and if they were not coming in from one side it would be from another. The biggest trade industry in the world is guns/weapons. Some Palestinians believe that liberation and creation of a West Bank state would only serve to produce a puppet to be controled, by no less that the masters giving them the guns or worse by Isreal. The real conceived battle lies in peoples minds and to change the thoughts of the masses is the only true way for them to get peace...that must be done on both sides because many groups are just as bad as others.  I am comparing this to the freeing of slaves here because in and of itself the freeing of slaves would have ended right there and they would have gone on to equality in America... but no one stepped in and changes the minds....so it continued. True freedom only comes with realization on both sides and acceptance but if one side has the guns and the other does not ....no one is going to listen. Might still makes right.

Quoting Gypsyuma:


Quoting stormcris:

What Palestinians want is not what this letter states. They do not want peace they want to be able to walk into Haifa and then choose to leave because they can not because they must. It is a feeling of entitlement that has not been seen before with refugees and even if they got that it would not be enough. They want further to be vindicated and as we have seen from history no one can ever truly be vindicated. Palestinians are no more than what we had of freed slaves after the Civil War and you see where that has gone. Until a culture, a race, or a group understands that there is not justice beyond what they can give to themselves, there is no hope for the future.


I have no clue what you just said.

But since you brought up their refugee status....

The definition of refugee is:

A person seeking refuge in a foreign country out of fear of political persecution or the prospect of such persecution in his home country.

The West Bank is not a foreign country - they are still in thier own country.  Their "home country" is still there - it has just been renamed Israel and they are not allowed to return there.

SO HOW CAN YOU SAY THE PALESTINIANS ARE REFUGEES?

On the other hand.... the definition of concentration camp is:

a place where prisoners of war, enemy aliens, and political prisoners are placed under armed guards.

The Palestinians were deemed "enemy aliens" in their own country and herded into these camps, and the armed guards REMAIN TILL TODAY.

THe West Bank and Gaza are the longest running concentration camps ever  -- if it were the reverse and it were the Jews placed in the camps, would you feel the same way?

Why is it ok to hold the Palestinians for more than 60 years in a concentration camp, yet when the Jews were liberated from theirs there was a universal cry of "NEVER AGAIN".  Well, guess what?  It is AGAIN right now.


tericared
by on May. 8, 2009 at 11:12 PM

Great post Gypsyuma,,,shame it cant be seen for what it is...the truth from some one who is there and who is in no way a part of Hamas.....

Palestinian People are defending themselves and their Land and their Homes against Israeli war crimes and Israeli war criminals, both military and civilian.

Gypsyuma
by Gold Member on May. 9, 2009 at 1:01 PM


Quoting stormcris:

Palestinians in Beirut consider themselves to be refugess. They have jobs and life and much like the Jewish people had to do during WWII who escaped Nazi Germany. I never said it was fair I only said that this letter states wanting of one thing when the majority want to return to Haifa and know without the guns from the US they would fall entirely. The guns are outside the fact and if they were not coming in from one side it would be from another. The biggest trade industry in the world is guns/weapons. Some Palestinians believe that liberation and creation of a West Bank state would only serve to produce a puppet to be controled, by no less that the masters giving them the guns or worse by Isreal. The real conceived battle lies in peoples minds and to change the thoughts of the masses is the only true way for them to get peace...that must be done on both sides because many groups are just as bad as others.  I am comparing this to the freeing of slaves here because in and of itself the freeing of slaves would have ended right there and they would have gone on to equality in America... but no one stepped in and changes the minds....so it continued. True freedom only comes with realization on both sides and acceptance but if one side has the guns and the other does not ....no one is going to listen. Might still makes right.

Quoting Gypsyuma:


Quoting stormcris:

What Palestinians want is not what this letter states. They do not want peace they want to be able to walk into Haifa and then choose to leave because they can not because they must. It is a feeling of entitlement that has not been seen before with refugees and even if they got that it would not be enough. They want further to be vindicated and as we have seen from history no one can ever truly be vindicated. Palestinians are no more than what we had of freed slaves after the Civil War and you see where that has gone. Until a culture, a race, or a group understands that there is not justice beyond what they can give to themselves, there is no hope for the future.


I have no clue what you just said.

But since you brought up their refugee status....

The definition of refugee is:

A person seeking refuge in a foreign country out of fear of political persecution or the prospect of such persecution in his home country.

The West Bank is not a foreign country - they are still in thier own country.  Their "home country" is still there - it has just been renamed Israel and they are not allowed to return there.

SO HOW CAN YOU SAY THE PALESTINIANS ARE REFUGEES?

On the other hand.... the definition of concentration camp is:

a place where prisoners of war, enemy aliens, and political prisoners are placed under armed guards.

The Palestinians were deemed "enemy aliens" in their own country and herded into these camps, and the armed guards REMAIN TILL TODAY.

THe West Bank and Gaza are the longest running concentration camps ever  -- if it were the reverse and it were the Jews placed in the camps, would you feel the same way?

Why is it ok to hold the Palestinians for more than 60 years in a concentration camp, yet when the Jews were liberated from theirs there was a universal cry of "NEVER AGAIN".  Well, guess what?  It is AGAIN right now.


I DON'T DISAGREE WITH WHAT YOU JUST WROTE AT ALL - IN FACT I AM NOT IN FAVOR OF A TWO STATE SOLUTION AT ALL - BECAUSE LIKE YOU SAID - THE ISRAELI WILL NEVER EVER ALLOW ANY SOVERIGNTY OVER A PUPPET STATE AND WILL NEVER ALLOW THEM TO PROSPER AND WILL ALWAYS CONTROL THEM - SO HOW IS THAT EVEN A STATE?  ITS NOT - ITS AN ENHANCED VERSION OF THEIR CONCENTRATION CAMP.

I BELIEVE THAT THE STATE SHOULD ENCOMPASS ALL TERRITORY, AND FOR IT TO NO LONGER TO BE A JEWISH STATE - IT SHOULD BE A STATE FOR ALL RELIGIONS, AS THAT PLACE IS HOLY FOR ALL THREE ARABHAMIC FAITHS - SO WHY SHOULD ONLY ONE OWN IT? 

YOU COMPARE THE SLAVES - WELL WHEN THE SLAVES WERE LIBERATED, THEY WERE NOT KEPT IN CAMPS FOR ETERNITY WERE THEY - AND WHILE THERE ARE STILL ISSUES, LOOK AT THEM TODAY.  I THINK THE PALESTINIANS SHOULD ALSO BE LIBERATED FROM THEIR CAMPS AND BE ALLOWED TO GO AND LIVE THEIR LIVES.

THERE ARE INTELLECTUALS THAT HAVE DEVISED A WAY FOR THE GOVERNMENT TO BE RUN AND FOR ALL TO LIVE IN PEACE.  BEFORE THE RIGHT WING START CALLING ME A WHACK-JOB, I GOT TO THIS POINT THRU EXTENSIVE RESEARCH, I DIDN'T JUST PULL IT OUT OF MY BUTT.  HERE IS JUST ONE OF MANY MANY ARTICLES ABOUT THIS:

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20031103/lazare

GETTING BACK TO THIS ARTICLE WE READ ABOVE...... THE POINT IS THAT THE USA INVOLVEMENT IS PREVENTING THIS EVOLUTION TO THE BEST SOLUTION FOR THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE THERE- PEOPLE OF ALL FAITHS.  WE ARE HOLDING THE EVOLUTION OF THE PEACE PROCESS HOSTAGE - WITH OUR MONEY AND OUR WEAPONS.  IF WE WOULD GET THE HELL OUT OF IT - THE PEOPLE OF ALL FAITHS COULD EVENTUALLY COME TOGETHER AND SOLVE THIS CRISIS.  THAT IS WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN - THE BOMBS SHOULD NOT DECIDE THE OUTCOME.


 

stormcris
by Christy on May. 9, 2009 at 2:59 PM

I agree complete with that.

Quoting Gypsyuma:


Quoting stormcris:

Palestinians in Beirut consider themselves to be refugess. They have jobs and life and much like the Jewish people had to do during WWII who escaped Nazi Germany. I never said it was fair I only said that this letter states wanting of one thing when the majority want to return to Haifa and know without the guns from the US they would fall entirely. The guns are outside the fact and if they were not coming in from one side it would be from another. The biggest trade industry in the world is guns/weapons. Some Palestinians believe that liberation and creation of a West Bank state would only serve to produce a puppet to be controled, by no less that the masters giving them the guns or worse by Isreal. The real conceived battle lies in peoples minds and to change the thoughts of the masses is the only true way for them to get peace...that must be done on both sides because many groups are just as bad as others.  I am comparing this to the freeing of slaves here because in and of itself the freeing of slaves would have ended right there and they would have gone on to equality in America... but no one stepped in and changes the minds....so it continued. True freedom only comes with realization on both sides and acceptance but if one side has the guns and the other does not ....no one is going to listen. Might still makes right.

Quoting Gypsyuma:


Quoting stormcris:

What Palestinians want is not what this letter states. They do not want peace they want to be able to walk into Haifa and then choose to leave because they can not because they must. It is a feeling of entitlement that has not been seen before with refugees and even if they got that it would not be enough. They want further to be vindicated and as we have seen from history no one can ever truly be vindicated. Palestinians are no more than what we had of freed slaves after the Civil War and you see where that has gone. Until a culture, a race, or a group understands that there is not justice beyond what they can give to themselves, there is no hope for the future.


I have no clue what you just said.

But since you brought up their refugee status....

The definition of refugee is:

A person seeking refuge in a foreign country out of fear of political persecution or the prospect of such persecution in his home country.

The West Bank is not a foreign country - they are still in thier own country.  Their "home country" is still there - it has just been renamed Israel and they are not allowed to return there.

SO HOW CAN YOU SAY THE PALESTINIANS ARE REFUGEES?

On the other hand.... the definition of concentration camp is:

a place where prisoners of war, enemy aliens, and political prisoners are placed under armed guards.

The Palestinians were deemed "enemy aliens" in their own country and herded into these camps, and the armed guards REMAIN TILL TODAY.

THe West Bank and Gaza are the longest running concentration camps ever  -- if it were the reverse and it were the Jews placed in the camps, would you feel the same way?

Why is it ok to hold the Palestinians for more than 60 years in a concentration camp, yet when the Jews were liberated from theirs there was a universal cry of "NEVER AGAIN".  Well, guess what?  It is AGAIN right now.


I DON'T DISAGREE WITH WHAT YOU JUST WROTE AT ALL - IN FACT I AM NOT IN FAVOR OF A TWO STATE SOLUTION AT ALL - BECAUSE LIKE YOU SAID - THE ISRAELI WILL NEVER EVER ALLOW ANY SOVERIGNTY OVER A PUPPET STATE AND WILL NEVER ALLOW THEM TO PROSPER AND WILL ALWAYS CONTROL THEM - SO HOW IS THAT EVEN A STATE?  ITS NOT - ITS AN ENHANCED VERSION OF THEIR CONCENTRATION CAMP.

I BELIEVE THAT THE STATE SHOULD ENCOMPASS ALL TERRITORY, AND FOR IT TO NO LONGER TO BE A JEWISH STATE - IT SHOULD BE A STATE FOR ALL RELIGIONS, AS THAT PLACE IS HOLY FOR ALL THREE ARABHAMIC FAITHS - SO WHY SHOULD ONLY ONE OWN IT? 

YOU COMPARE THE SLAVES - WELL WHEN THE SLAVES WERE LIBERATED, THEY WERE NOT KEPT IN CAMPS FOR ETERNITY WERE THEY - AND WHILE THERE ARE STILL ISSUES, LOOK AT THEM TODAY.  I THINK THE PALESTINIANS SHOULD ALSO BE LIBERATED FROM THEIR CAMPS AND BE ALLOWED TO GO AND LIVE THEIR LIVES.

THERE ARE INTELLECTUALS THAT HAVE DEVISED A WAY FOR THE GOVERNMENT TO BE RUN AND FOR ALL TO LIVE IN PEACE.  BEFORE THE RIGHT WING START CALLING ME A WHACK-JOB, I GOT TO THIS POINT THRU EXTENSIVE RESEARCH, I DIDN'T JUST PULL IT OUT OF MY BUTT.  HERE IS JUST ONE OF MANY MANY ARTICLES ABOUT THIS:

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20031103/lazare

GETTING BACK TO THIS ARTICLE WE READ ABOVE...... THE POINT IS THAT THE USA INVOLVEMENT IS PREVENTING THIS EVOLUTION TO THE BEST SOLUTION FOR THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE THERE- PEOPLE OF ALL FAITHS.  WE ARE HOLDING THE EVOLUTION OF THE PEACE PROCESS HOSTAGE - WITH OUR MONEY AND OUR WEAPONS.  IF WE WOULD GET THE HELL OUT OF IT - THE PEOPLE OF ALL FAITHS COULD EVENTUALLY COME TOGETHER AND SOLVE THIS CRISIS.  THAT IS WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN - THE BOMBS SHOULD NOT DECIDE THE OUTCOME.


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