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DUH! Obama never proposed this.....

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Obama NEVER proposed UHC. Don't fall for the hype! These ads are lies!

Conservative Patient Rights Group Launches Attacks On Obama’s Health Plan

Why should you believe Richard Scott, the former CEO of Columbia/HCA Healthcare who was forced to resign amid fraud charges, when he says that Obama’s health care plan will “ration care” and place patients on “waiting lists”? Well, you shouldn’t, of course, but the $20 million dollar TV and Radio misinformation campaign that Scott’s front group, the so-called Conservatives for Patients Rights is launching, may be hard to ignore. Politico has their first couple of ads:

Their principles are rather ironic. Choice, competition, and accountability are deeply enshrined into Obama’s health care proposal. So much so in fact, that the President builds on the existing employer system, establishes an insurance exchange to enhance competition between insurers (the market is currently dominated by large insurers that don’t really compete with each other) and hold insurers accountable to Americans by ensuring that they can’t cherry pick the healthiest applicants or deny coverage to those who have pre-existing conditions.

The group doesn’t engage with the actual content of Obama’s proposal. Its modus operandi– developed and perfected during Clinton’s failed efforts to reform the health care system — is to launch its attacks against a straw man. In fact, it appears that the group’s public relations guru Brian Burgess, is from the same PR firm that managed the Swift Boat Veterans For Truth; launching concocted right wing fairy tales onto the airwaves is something of a cottage industry for these guys.

The other big irony, of course, is that by misrepresenting Obama’s actual proposal, these “conservatives” are protecting the status quo — in which 46 million Americans are uninsured, 25 million Americans are underinsured and many more are now skipping doctors visits and medications to make ends meet in a worsening economy. In delaying health care reform, they’re helping to realize their own doomsday predictions.

 

by on May. 11, 2009 at 1:41 PM
Replies (31-40):
Raintree
by Ruby Member on May. 13, 2009 at 4:14 PM

I'd just like to point out that most countries that have UHC, the populace sports a longer lifespan than we do here.

If it's so bad... WTH?

Stand up, this is comedy. The DNA lotto may have left you smart, but can you stand up to beauty- dictator of the heart. I can stand up for hope, faith, love but while I'm getting over certainty. Stop walking God across the road like a little old lady. - Bono

sweetie00
by on May. 13, 2009 at 4:24 PM


Quoting Gypsyuma:

 MY COMMENTS IN DEEP BLUE

Quoting Eilish:


 

laughingYou should know me well enough then to realize that I don't use scare tactics. I'm not even a huge fan of Palin aside from her spunk. Allow me to address each one of your rebuttals:

The money would be paid to the healthcare insurance provider - whomever that provider is for the government healthcare insurance program.  So what?

The money may pay insurance companies, but when it is routed throught the government there is no civil oversight. Since health insurance have come into existance, the cost of health care has skyrocketed. Why? Because the consumer (in this case the patient) does not directly pay for the care (note that they still pay indirectly through income taxes and excises taxes - excise taxes target the poor as well). When a consumer does not directly pay for a good or service, then they don't care what is ordered for them. Example: I worked as Medical Lab Tech for the US Air Force. I was stationed at Travis AFB, CA. On every physical done on a patient (whether health or not) the doc automatically ordered a CBC - Complete Blood Count. The vast majority of CBCs that I ran were normal. In fact, our of say 150 test, only 10 or so would come back with problems. Despite the obvious lack of need for ordering CBCs for healthy patients, the docs did it anyway. And while this doesn't affect the patient directly - because they are on government-funded TriCare - the cost to run a CBC goes up because the demand is great. The law of supply and demand says that when demand goes up, price goes up too. Yet in the health care industry there a great number of procedures done that really aren't needed and THAT is what drives up the cost. Now the common patient who has low-deductable health insurance through his employer ALSO enjoys this same general benefit. While a co-pay to the doc may cost $20-30 and subsequent tests (barring a few restrictions) are also paid for, you STILL have many docs ordering un-needed tests, thereby driving the cost up.

So you are saying that our healthcare system, which is an insurance based system, is what drives up the cost of healthcare.  Ok.  I hear ya.  Personally, I HATE insurance.  I really do - I think it is a huge racket.  BUT, that is the system we have collectively chosen to base our healthcare system on, and I have not heard of any movement to change it to something else.

SO, if this is going to be our system, then why NOT let all the people who are uninsured the chance to PAY FOR the government's health insurance plan?  It seems like you are shooting the wrong guy - the poor schmuck who had cancer, when you really want to shoot the guy who runs the insurance company.

Here's the kicker .... when the government gets involved, they try to micromanage everything in a "macro" sort of way. Government-sponsored (tax-payer funded)

AGAIN, this is not a government sponsored, tax-payer funded system!  It simply allows those who DO NOT WORK FOR THE Government, the same rights to purchase the healthcare insurance plan as those who DO WORK FOR THE government.  SIMPLY PUT:  These people get to have GROUP insurance verses an INDIVIDUAL plan.  Have you ever been forced into taking an individual health insurance plan?  If so, then you must be aware of the challenges associated with that - no pre-existing conditions covered, they raise the rates like every six months, they can drop you whenever you want, or not give you coverage at all - you are completely at their mercy.  Whereas, group coverage you are protected from all that nonsense.

 health care keeps the consumer out of equation and adds a governement who knows nothing about the individual needs of the consumer. They must act in a way that allows ALL their "beneficiaries" to get the exact same care. So they will inevitably have to keep tabs by "auditing" medical records,Prove it.  Show us where it says that in an offical government site. Ron Paul's summation of the Economic Stimulus Package which we know has already been passed. There is already a move to ban Vitamin B-6 from supplements, click here. There is a report from the FDA which considers the idea of restrciting alternative forms of medicine. Click here for the commentary, here for the report itself. These are just a few examples.

But what does any of this have to do with health insurance?  I think you are creating a link between the two where one does not exist.

Sounds like paranoia to me.  The government ALREADY controls the tax revenue.  So what?

I know! They already have too much power - and they want more. Too many people think that the only tax revenue the government receives is through income, but the majority comes from excise taxes which we ALL pay. And things like "cap & trade" or going to make it worse. I'm not paranoid, I just have a hightened awareness - also paranoia suggests that I am fearful - I'm not.

I just don't see a correlation between the two - sorry.

Again sounds paranoid.  Just like your employer provided healthcare plan, you will choose the option you like best, which are usually the choice between a PPO, an HMO, or a majormedical plan. 

And the system that we have now is broken. What makes you think that the government picking up the tab for you insurance bill is going to change the system. Gimme a break!

The government does not pick up the tab - no exagerating now, that's not fair.   You know that those who cannot afford the premium have to pay for it, and the rest are on a sliding scale. And if the system is wrong - then make a new one.  But if you are for keeping this one - then I think blocking others from having group health insurance is wrong.

And most healthcare insurance has limitations, like they won't pay for plastic surgery,etc....  You follow the limitations, or you pay for it out of pocket.  So what?

But health insurance is truly optional. If I don't want it, I don't pay for it. If  I want it, and I want to pay for it, then I agree to the terms of the insurance company. If I don't like the terms of the insurance company, I go shopping for a better bargin.

You have obviously NEVER had individual coverage - it just is not as simplistic as you make it out to be.  Real life never is.

But why deny some poor schmuck who had cancer previously and cannot get healthcare insurance the opportunity to do so.  Noone is twisting your arm, so why cut off his?

I would deny that "poor schmuck" poor health care in a heartbeat.. He'll likely die before getting the adequate care he needs from a government-sponsored program.

TELL US exactly how me being able to subscribe to the group health insurance plan that members of Congress can buy into is a government-sponsored health system.  You know its not - so get real about the actual issue.  Or are you just confused about it?  Did you read the link from Obama's site?

 The government absolutely sucks at managing anything. Hell they can't even manage a damn check book.  No, I would offer that "poor schmuck" some alternative medicine that has been proven to help people recover from things like cancer. You'd be surprised what herbal medicinals and proper nutrition can do for all of the "incurable" diseases in the world.

Ok, so you prefer alternative medicine.  That is ok.  I respect that.  But people like you are a small percentage, and it is not for everyone.  You are linking two issues that do not belong together again.  Stick to health INSURANCE - because that is the only subject on the table for change under Obama's plan.

(And before you jump down my throat about the legitamacy of the statement, and how if it were true, the medical community would be using them, consider this .... pharmaceutical companies cannot make the same kind of money off of herbals that they do off of pharmaceuticals. Do you know why? I'll tell you ... it is because you cannot patent a plant, so they cannot monopolize it. The CDC and FDA are funded by mostly pharmaceutical money, so they won't enforece herbals either. As I said, the ones who control the money have the power). He doesn't deserve government-sponsored health care,; he deserves far better. And the government is twisting my arm .... via taxes.


 

EILISH, once again this is not about government sponsored healthcare, even though you keep trying to twist this issue into that.  Obama is only wanting to allow American the chance to subscribe to a group health insurance plan - the same that Congress has the right to subscribe to - or not, it is everyone's choice.

Now if you are against health insurance in general - ok.  I can see why.  I also think it sucks shit in so many ways.  But that is currently the system that America uses to drive our healthcare system - right or wrong.  And until we change that system, then I think there is no harm in allowing American to buy affordable group coverage instead of being forced into overpriced and limited healthcare insurance under an individual policy.

If you would like to see alternative medicine developed in this country - ok.  I can see why.  I think we rely too much on drugs.  But that also has nothing to do with this issue - it is completely seperate.

Obama's plan is about simply solving the problem associated with uninsured americans.  NOTHING MORE.  Solving the problems associated with an insurance based system, or one that does not value alternative medicines are also valid issues - but completely seperate from the first.

Great points. I agree.

Eilish
by on May. 13, 2009 at 4:55 PM

Yes, the Mothers Institute is on Facebook. Just search for the name.


I'll be back later to address the Gypsuma's comments.

Quoting sheenashina1964:

I like what you have to say. I will check out THEMOTHERINSTITUTE.ORG  do they have a facebook?

TOTALLY AGREE!!!!

Quoting Eilish:


Quoting margroc:


Quoting Eilish:


Quoting Gypsyuma:

I found this whole Universal Health Care frenzy during the campaign laughable.  The Republicans slapped a label on his health care plan and fanned the socialism fears, when in reality his plan had nothing to do with that.

The ignorant leading the even more ignorant.  They are so busy creating fear with their labels that they don't realize they are hurting themselves and everyone else by not acting rationally.  Maybe we could tend to our nation's problems with some INTELLIGENCE!?

You want proof??  Just look up a few lines.  Maybe these "socialism" scandal perpetuators could tell us EXACTLY how Obama's plan is EXACTLY the same as in say England or France??? 

The problem with your analogy is that the health care system in England and France IS socialist. While I agree that the Republicans were fanning the fire, any health care program that is dependant on the government, especially financially IS socialist. There is simply no way around it.

I'm curious - people don't seem to have a problem with emergency services being dependant upon the government - would that be considered socialism too?

Emergency services are paid for at the local level usually by excise taxes. They are also fully within the role of Constitutional government because they are intended to protect rights. Emergency services still must abide by the rule of law. I am not an advocate of zero government; I'm an advocate of limited government. A Republic only works when there are laws in place to protect the people from those who would seek to destroy individual liberty. If we had no government, we wouldn't be able to leave our homes. But too much government just means that the theif is not some individual putz, but rather a collective entity that is far more dangerous.


ETA: you should google the difference between "peace officer" and "law enforcement."





Please Click on the Pics to follow the links!

almostcrazee
by Member on May. 13, 2009 at 10:50 PM

ER costs are different from doctors fees. Hopefully you're not going to the ER on a regular basis.

What "the big deal is" is that this is NOT a socialist country. At least not until the douchebag NObama gets done with it. There are plenty of them if you would like to move there.

Quoting sweetie00:

It's usually 250 for ER for me. We already pay 1100 a month in health care. So if we pay a few hundred dollars a month into public health care, it would still be a great deal. And it would help cover the uninsured. I'm OK with socialized medicine and education. I don't see what the big deal is. Private insurance is not good right now. However, according to Obama, you would have a choice! So that sounds great. We already have socialized medicine for the retired. It's called Medicare. And we have SCHIP. And we have public schools. There are plenty of govt. programs that could be cut to pay for this, and again, it would be your choice, something the right wingers won't tell you. It won't kill us anymore than the 3 trillion did for just the Iraq war. If we put that $ towards healthcare and education, it would be an investment in the welfare of Americans. Which in turn, would be good for work and productivity. Which is good for the economy.

Quoting almostcrazee:

First of all, I just have to say... 250.00 for an office visit? Where the heck is that at? I only pay 65.00. Second, that is true, that they go to the hospital and it is paid for by taxpayers. That still doesn't make NObama's plan the right one. Our tax system cannot afford the programs we have going on now. Adding this astronomically expensive one will kill us.

Oh, and you asked what makes his health care plan socialistic....

so·cial·ism    (sō'shə-lĭz'əm)   
n.  

  1. Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.

Sounds like socialism to me. 

confused

Quoting Gypsyuma:

Ok, I think your premise that it is socialist simply lies in the fact that potentially your tax dollars could be used to help fund it, which is not the kind of answer I was looking for.    Do you have any other basis to offer for your claims it is socialist UHC?

Also, I would appreciate a response to this thought.  There are more than 40 million American without healthcare - potentially millions more now since the economic downturn.  So if these MILLIONS of people do not have any healthcare and cannot afford the $250 price tag to go to the doctor for an office visit, what do you think they are going to do?  THEY ARE GOING TO GO TO THE HOSPITAL WHERE THEY CANNOT BE REFUSED TREATMENT.

Who do you think eventually ends up paying for that?  Do you think the hospitals treat all those people out of the kindness of their heart?

 

 


almostcrazee
by Member on May. 13, 2009 at 11:03 PM

No, my problem isn't with reading. It's with Libs like you.

Quoting sweetie00:

 

Quoting almostcrazee:

So, just because YOU don't mind, does that mean we should all have to pay?

Quoting sweetie00:

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that I don't mind my taxes paying for health care and education. Yes, I'm a crazy liberal. LOL.

 

Did you have trouble reading ?


Gypsyuma
by Gold Member on May. 14, 2009 at 10:37 AM


Quoting almostcrazee:

No, my problem isn't with reading. It's with Libs like you.

Quoting sweetie00:

 

Quoting almostcrazee:

So, just because YOU don't mind, does that mean we should all have to pay?

Quoting sweetie00:

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that I don't mind my taxes paying for health care and education. Yes, I'm a crazy liberal. LOL.

 

Did you have trouble reading ?

 

Hey.... YOU...if you have got nothing more to offer than your typical right wing labeling and telling the rest of us to "just leave then", can you take your right wing moronic rhetoric and get the hell out of this thread where people with actual BRAINS are having an intelligent discussion.


 

Gypsyuma
by Gold Member on May. 14, 2009 at 10:39 AM

Leave it to the government to dedicate an entire website to healthcare reform, and then post nothing about the details of their plan to actually reform healthcare besides some lame and vague bullet points.  Nice job asswipes.

This is from the "About" section at http://www.healthreform.gov/:

 

President Obama is committed to working with Congress to pass comprehensive health reform this year in order to control rising health care costs, guarantee choice of doctor, and assure high-quality, affordable health care for all Americans.  The Administration believes that comprehensive health reform should:

  • Reduce long-term growth of health care costs for businesses and government
  • Protect families from bankruptcy or debt because of health care costs
  • Guarantee choice of doctors and health plans
  • Invest in prevention and wellness
  • Improve patient safety and quality of care
  • Assure affordable, quality health coverage for all Americans
  • Maintain coverage when you change or lose your job
  • End barriers to coverage for people with pre-existing medical conditions


 

almostcrazee
by Member on May. 15, 2009 at 7:40 AM


Quoting Gypsyuma:

 

Quoting almostcrazee:

No, my problem isn't with reading. It's with Libs like you.

Quoting sweetie00:

 

Quoting almostcrazee:

So, just because YOU don't mind, does that mean we should all have to pay?

Quoting sweetie00:

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that I don't mind my taxes paying for health care and education. Yes, I'm a crazy liberal. LOL.

 

Did you have trouble reading ?

 

Hey.... YOU...if you have got nothing more to offer than your typical right wing labeling and telling the rest of us to "just leave then", can you take your right wing moronic rhetoric and get the hell out of this thread where people with actual BRAINS are having an intelligent discussion.

Hey YOU, if you're such a brainiac, then why aren't you smart enough to know that I didn't tell her to 'just leave then'. I believe that was what you did. My typical right wing labeling seems to be pretty accurate right now. :)  I'm just tired of typical left wing kool-aid drinkers being jerks to anybody who doesn't agree with them. All I did was ask her a question and she had to get cocky. I am not scared just because there are more libs in here than me. I know you guys can't help it. The kool-aid sure is tasty. But let her 'fight' her own fights. It had nothing to do with you.

Raintree
by Ruby Member on May. 15, 2009 at 8:30 AM

Fight her own fights? Why don't you MAKE a coherant argument?


Quoting almostcrazee:


Quoting Gypsyuma:


Quoting almostcrazee:

No, my problem isn't with reading. It's with Libs like you.

Quoting sweetie00:


Quoting almostcrazee:

So, just because YOU don't mind, does that mean we should all have to pay?

Quoting sweetie00:

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that I don't mind my taxes paying for health care and education. Yes, I'm a crazy liberal. LOL.


Did you have trouble reading ?


Hey.... YOU...if you have got nothing more to offer than your typical right wing labeling and telling the rest of us to "just leave then", can you take your right wing moronic rhetoric and get the hell out of this thread where people with actual BRAINS are having an intelligent discussion.

Hey YOU, if you're such a brainiac, then why aren't you smart enough to know that I didn't tell her to 'just leave then'. I believe that was what you did. My typical right wing labeling seems to be pretty accurate right now. :)  I'm just tired of typical left wing kool-aid drinkers being jerks to anybody who doesn't agree with them. All I did was ask her a question and she had to get cocky. I am not scared just because there are more libs in here than me. I know you guys can't help it. The kool-aid sure is tasty. But let her 'fight' her own fights. It had nothing to do with you.


Stand up, this is comedy. The DNA lotto may have left you smart, but can you stand up to beauty- dictator of the heart. I can stand up for hope, faith, love but while I'm getting over certainty. Stop walking God across the road like a little old lady. - Bono

Gypsyuma
by Gold Member on May. 15, 2009 at 9:46 AM


Quoting Raintree:

Fight her own fights? Why don't you MAKE a coherant argument?

 

Quoting almostcrazee:

 

Quoting Gypsyuma:

 

Quoting almostcrazee:

No, my problem isn't with reading. It's with Libs like you.

Quoting sweetie00:

 

Quoting almostcrazee:

So, just because YOU don't mind, does that mean we should all have to pay?

Quoting sweetie00:

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that I don't mind my taxes paying for health care and education. Yes, I'm a crazy liberal. LOL.

 

Did you have trouble reading ?

 

Hey.... YOU...if you have got nothing more to offer than your typical right wing labeling and telling the rest of us to "just leave then", can you take your right wing moronic rhetoric and get the hell out of this thread where people with actual BRAINS are having an intelligent discussion.

Hey YOU, if you're such a brainiac, then why aren't you smart enough to know that I didn't tell her to 'just leave then'. I believe that was what you did. My typical right wing labeling seems to be pretty accurate right now. :)  I'm just tired of typical left wing kool-aid drinkers being jerks to anybody who doesn't agree with them. All I did was ask her a question and she had to get cocky. I am not scared just because there are more libs in here than me. I know you guys can't help it. The kool-aid sure is tasty. But let her 'fight' her own fights. It had nothing to do with you.


People like her only know how to call names , and she did say "just move there then" in her response.  And then accuses me of that?  Say what?  Where?

We were talking about the actual issue - what did she have to offer on that?  THe typical brainless "but this is not a socialist country".  So either she is:

A.  Read the entire thread and is just too ignorant to decipher that the Obama plan is not Universal Healthcare in the socialist sense.  OR

B.  Did not read the entire thread because she is too lazy and still thinks she is justified to throw her superirority complex around.

Either way, she adds nothing of value to our discussion.


 

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