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Abortion - the other side.....

Posted by on Jun. 12, 2009 at 8:35 AM
  • 25 Replies

I read all the debates on here. Oh, sure, they start off innocent enough, with a simple question. But 879 replies into it, I think the women are loading their guns next to their computer. Seems to get pretty ugly.

Nobody every considers the other side. My side. I was a child rape victim. After many tears, consultation, etc. I had an abortion. Nobody thinks of these situations. It's always argued as though they're "those" women who just don't want to be careful, and sleep around and use it as birth control. Nobody ever thinks of the young girl who wasn't sleeping around...in fact, didn't even really know what that was about. Obviously wasn't on birth control...why would someone put a child on birth control?

Yes I believe in God. Yes, I believe I am a child of God. To have gone through that pregnancy, and subsequently deliver a child would have been murder to my mental/emotional person, I would have been destroyed as a functioning person. If I'm the actual person you can see, don't you think of me before you think of the tiny baby in me that you can't see? Why is there more importance placed an a baby than me? I'm already existing with a huge future in front of me. Don't I matter?

by on Jun. 12, 2009 at 8:35 AM
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Replies (1-10):
Eilish
by on Jun. 12, 2009 at 8:40 AM

Is this rhetorical, or do would you really like answers. Just asking because I don't want you to think that I am attacking you.


EireLass
by Ruby Member on Jun. 12, 2009 at 8:47 AM


Quoting Eilish:

Is this rhetorical, or do would you really like answers. Just asking because I don't want you to think that I am attacking you.

I was merely bringing in the other side. So often it's just thought of married or unmarried WOMEN (assumed adult, grown, know better) who do this. They don't think of the child that has to deal with it. There's such an extreme importance placed on the invisible baby, with no concern for the female (I say that, rather than woman, as I was far from being a woman at that age) who's holding it.

athenax3
by on Jun. 12, 2009 at 8:47 AM

Eirelass, if this happened to you I am deeply deeply sorry- and saddened that it happens so very often in our society and many others. And I (as a victim myself, though not one requiring an abortion) have already taken into account these things which is why I am profoundly and commitedly pro-choice. The existing life SHOULD matter- but unfortunately in their zeal to save "the unborn" many trample over without a glance or thought the "already" born...idk why- I guess the argument being the fetus is unable to defend itself, but in many instances so are the chidren or women assaulted- again, I don't quite understand that view, but clearly that's because it isn't mine and i obviously have personal reasons for my feelings as I'm guessing many do when it comes to this topic.


NadiasMommy427
by on Jun. 12, 2009 at 8:55 AM

yes I agree sweetie!!! they don't think about the fifteen yr old girls that get raped by there fathers, uncles ans brothers. Not only would your mental state be screwed forever, but think about that kid growning up knowing that his/her mother was aslo their sister/aunt. It's sick to want to bring a kid into that. They always say adoption. Who would want to carry their father's child??? You're right hon they don't think about the ones that didn't have a choice. I am pro choice.

iluvmommyhood58
by Bronze Member on Jun. 12, 2009 at 8:56 AM
I can most certainly see your point. It's an extremely personal decision. I wouldn't want legislation making those decisions.

But, you are appealing to us to agree with your decision. I won't tell you that you did the right thing and that is what you're seeking, to a degree. I can't tell you what I would do in your situation because I've never been in it. And, yes, a lot of people do use it as a method of oops control.

I ask this, though, what do you think we'd hear were we hearing an appeal from a person who was the result of a rape? I imagine it's possible that person had to deal with extreme emotional hardship as well but might not tell their mother to go back, if she could, and decide the other way, to abort...

Let's say I found out I was the result of a rape. Could I look my own kids in the face and say my mom should have gotten rid of me?
EireLass
by Ruby Member on Jun. 12, 2009 at 9:01 AM


Quoting iluvmommyhood58:

I can most certainly see your point. It's an extremely personal decision. I wouldn't want legislation making those decisions.

But, you are appealing to us to agree with your decision. I won't tell you that you did the right thing and that is what you're seeking, to a degree. I can't tell you what I would do in your situation because I've never been in it. And, yes, a lot of people do use it as a method of oops control.

I ask this, though, what do you think we'd hear were we hearing an appeal from a person who was the result of a rape? I imagine it's possible that person had to deal with extreme emotional hardship as well but might not tell their mother to go back, if she could, and decide the other way, to abort...

No...I'm not looking for agreement. Just pointing out that there are sometimes another story. If you go back to some of the other posts, they are very tunnel visioned in their ideas of why someone would even have an abortion. They only things they can think about is a 30 year old whore using it as birth control. People often forget about the children being made pregnant.

I agree with you, what the child born of rape would say. I'm not 100% pro or against. I'm just bringing another side to it, that is quite obviously not known, or not thought about. People spend so much time thinking about what the church says, they forget about the voice of the very young girl. They so concerned with something not born, they forget about the one that's standing in front of them.

realPatientMama
by on Jun. 12, 2009 at 9:01 AM

Thank you for sharing you personal story with us EireLass.  Yes, everyone does need to read it. No it wasn't your fault and I believe you made the right decision.  Don't let anyone else tell you otherwise.

Eilish
by on Jun. 12, 2009 at 9:17 AM


Quoting EireLass:


Quoting Eilish:

Is this rhetorical, or do would you really like answers. Just asking because I don't want you to think that I am attacking you.

I was merely bringing in the other side. So often it's just thought of married or unmarried WOMEN (assumed adult, grown, know better) who do this. They don't think of the child that has to deal with it. There's such an extreme importance placed on the invisible baby, with no concern for the female (I say that, rather than woman, as I was far from being a woman at that age) who's holding it.

While it could be argued that from a legal standpoint, the option should be made available (and in some states prior to Roe v Wade it was), the pro-life reasoning for not accepting rape or even incest as a reason for abortion is this ....

Rape is indeed a horrific act, and while I agree that you shouldn't have to keep it (it may be trite to say, but adoption IS still an option), going through with an abortion, especially the younger you are, puts you at risk for more problems. There are side effects to abortion that no one talks about, generally speaking, and while you yourself may have had (I don't know this) a "successful" one - meaning that you didn't have any physical or psychological ramifications from the abortion itself - there are women who do. And of course, no one can predict whether a woman will experience these side effects or not.

So one argument is that, forbidding an abortion due to rape is really protecting the pregnant woman/girl from even more psychological and physical damage due to an abortion.

Now, I have seen the other side of this argument - as you put it - albeit indirectly. My cousin worked as a social worker and was raped by one of her patients/clients. She got pregnant and kept the baby. She's white; her attacker is black - so there is no doubt that her baby likely reminds her of the attack from time to time. Now she errored on the side of, " this baby is a living human being, and it is not my place to end its life, just to satisfy (hopefully) my need to move past this horrific event of my life." She now has a very happy little 4 year old boy who has brought great joy to her life, in spite her being a single mother by force. If we recognize that even a conceptus is a living, human being - and science already does - then we must understand that the conceptus has at least the most basic right - the right to live. Does that negate your rights? No. The baby's rights end where yours begin and visa versa. But here's the thing - while you may have a right to choose not to get pregnant, if there was a rape that resulted in a pregnancy, then yes, your right to choose pregnancy was violated. BUT .... after you become pregnant, then - speaking in terms of the baby's right to live - you do not have the right to end that baby's life. Does that take 9 months of your life away? Sure it does - but it doesn't violate your right to live. It might be inconvenient, but convenience isn't a right, and if it is having pyschological or emotional ramifications because it is a product of a rape, then you should get counseling - because you would likely have to do it anyway for the rape itself. Abortion never cures a rape.

The mother and inutero-baby relationship is a unique one, no doubt. But in an effort to avoid violating the rights of another in an attempt at recitfying a violation of yours, is certainly not too much to ask in a civilized society.

Now I don't agree that fetuses should be granted personhood. I have heard recent stories about a few states granting personhood to fetuses and hospitals completely usurped the mothers right in order to protect the rights of the fetus. That's wrong ... no one can forceabley usurp anyone's rights. And I don't support personhood laws for fetuses because you and I are not granted personhood by the state - we have personhood simply for existing. The government recognizes that you and I are persons and therefore have rights, and then they (are supposed to) protect them. But the moment the states grant that personhood, is the moment that the government controls our rights - and that is not condusive to liberty.

From a completely legal stanpoint, I think there should be an exception made for pregnant mothers whose lives at immediate risk if they give birth to a baby, and I believe (at least for now) that exceptions for rape and incest should also be made, but that we should work toward finding better ways of handling rape and incest cases without resorting to abortion. I think it should be the last choice, not the first one. And of course, I believe that abortion on demand should not be an option at all.


EireLass
by Ruby Member on Jun. 12, 2009 at 9:41 AM

Eilish....I appreciate your thoughts and ideas on this. You are one that has obviously thought about this deeply. There are others that are just quick to say "the quick out birth control method, blah blah blah". But as you say...it hasn't touched your life, or that of your young daughter....so you do speak from a "detached" view. And the one life it did touch (close to you) was an adult woman, who had her own adult mind to make her choices from. And her rapist was someone who, no doubt, she never had to see again....ever.

I didn't have any long lasting physical problems caused by it. I do have a genetic defect that makes it very difficult for me to even carry a child, and I wonder if I hadn't aborted, would I have miscarried anyway.

What it did leave me with as a young woman (back then, I'm now 51), was the strong desire to have children when I was married. And it created in me a form of love that I don't see often in young mothers towards their children. I have an amazing bond with my (now) adult children, yet they are extremely independant of me. It has created in me the appreciation for the gift that God has given me.

Now that I'm an adult and can look back, would I do it the same all over? Yes.

Quoting Eilish:

While it could be argued that from a legal standpoint, the option should be made available (and in some states prior to Roe v Wade it was), the pro-life reasoning for not accepting rape or even incest as a reason for abortion is this ....

Rape is indeed a horrific act, and while I agree that you shouldn't have to keep it (it may be trite to say, but adoption IS still an option), going through with an abortion, especially the younger you are, puts you at risk for more problems. There are side effects to abortion that no one talks about, generally speaking, and while you yourself may have had (I don't know this) a "successful" one - meaning that you didn't have any physical or psychological ramifications from the abortion itself - there are women who do. And of course, no one can predict whether a woman will experience these side effects or not.

So one argument is that, forbidding an abortion due to rape is really protecting the pregnant woman/girl from even more psychological and physical damage due to an abortion.

Now, I have seen the other side of this argument - as you put it - albeit indirectly. My cousin worked as a social worker and was raped by one of her patients/clients. She got pregnant and kept the baby. She's white; her attacker is black - so there is no doubt that her baby likely reminds her of the attack from time to time. Now she errored on the side of, " this baby is a living human being, and it is not my place to end its life, just to satisfy (hopefully) my need to move past this horrific event of my life." She now has a very happy little 4 year old boy who has brought great joy to her life, in spite her being a single mother by force. If we recognize that even a conceptus is a living, human being - and science already does - then we must understand that the conceptus has at least the most basic right - the right to live. Does that negate your rights? No. The baby's rights end where yours begin and visa versa. But here's the thing - while you may have a right to choose not to get pregnant, if there was a rape that resulted in a pregnancy, then yes, your right to choose pregnancy was violated. BUT .... after you become pregnant, then - speaking in terms of the baby's right to live - you do not have the right to end that baby's life. Does that take 9 months of your life away? Sure it does - but it doesn't violate your right to live. It might be inconvenient, but convenience isn't a right, and if it is having pyschological or emotional ramifications because it is a product of a rape, then you should get counseling - because you would likely have to do it anyway for the rape itself. Abortion never cures a rape.

The mother and inutero-baby relationship is a unique one, no doubt. But in an effort to avoid violating the rights of another in an attempt at recitfying a violation of yours, is certainly not too much to ask in a civilized society.

Now I don't agree that fetuses should be granted personhood. I have heard recent stories about a few states granting personhood to fetuses and hospitals completely usurped the mothers right in order to protect the rights of the fetus. That's wrong ... no one can forceabley usurp anyone's rights. And I don't support personhood laws for fetuses because you and I are not granted personhood by the state - we have personhood simply for existing. The government recognizes that you and I are persons and therefore have rights, and then they (are supposed to) protect them. But the moment the states grant that personhood, is the moment that the government controls our rights - and that is not condusive to liberty.

From a completely legal stanpoint, I think there should be an exception made for pregnant mothers whose lives at immediate risk if they give birth to a baby, and I believe (at least for now) that exceptions for rape and incest should also be made, but that we should work toward finding better ways of handling rape and incest cases without resorting to abortion. I think it should be the last choice, not the first one. And of course, I believe that abortion on demand should not be an option at all.


rebeccasmommy09
by Member on Jun. 12, 2009 at 9:46 AM


Quoting iluvmommyhood58:

I can most certainly see your point. It's an extremely personal decision. I wouldn't want legislation making those decisions.

But, you are appealing to us to agree with your decision. I won't tell you that you did the right thing and that is what you're seeking, to a degree. I can't tell you what I would do in your situation because I've never been in it. And, yes, a lot of people do use it as a method of oops control.

I ask this, though, what do you think we'd hear were we hearing an appeal from a person who was the result of a rape? I imagine it's possible that person had to deal with extreme emotional hardship as well but might not tell their mother to go back, if she could, and decide the other way, to abort...

Let's say I found out I was the result of a rape. Could I look my own kids in the face and say my mom should have gotten rid of me?

I can speak on behalf of a child who was conceived during a rape. While in actuality I was not a child of rape, my mom told me I was and I had to deal with coming to terms with that (I found out later on that it was a lie but it was much further down the road).

Yes, it was a very difficult thing to come to terms with. There were a lot of tears and a lot of questions that I had to figure out. It still leaves a scar today. However, even with all the emotional trauma that caused for me, I am still grateful my mother never even considered an abortion. .

Please understand, I am not judging you and I understand your point of view in your situation. It doesn't mean I agree with it though. I have asked myself the question if I thought it was okay to abort a baby in the situation of a rape, woman or child, and I still come to the same conclusion (let me add that I have also been sexually assaulted and asked myself what I would do had I become pregnant from that situation). Yes it sucks for the one carrying that baby, but you have no idea what God has planned for that child. One of the amazing things about God is He can turn a hopeless and painful situation into one of absolute joy.

So to answer your question, yes you do matter. I have taken into account not only the 'fetus' but the mother as well in multiple situations. My answer remains the same. I am pro-life regardless of how a child is conceived because that child is still a life and deserves the opportunity to live.


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