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Poll

Question: Should ACORN be used for collecting Census Data?

Options:

Yes

No

How can a nut collect anything?


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Total Votes: 17

View Results

 Should ACORN be used for collecting Census Data?

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by on Jun. 19, 2009 at 3:49 PM
Replies (21-30):
Eilish
by on Jun. 19, 2009 at 9:01 PM

Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding!  .... We have a winner!


(sorry for the cynicism tonight ladies!)

Quoting mamadixon:

What a great question!

Quoting Merry74:

No, I think you are mistaken.  I'm pretty sure ACORN workers were themselves committing fraud as well as the question of how bizarre the results have to be before you pin the people in charge for negligence at the very least.  When your office suddenly has voter registrations for the entire Dallas Cowboys team (and you're not in Dallas) somebody should have taken notice and done something.  Even if ACORN didn't intend to commit fraud (and I think they did), do we want someone so negligent involved?

Quoting PamR:

If I'm not mistaken, the voter registration was committed by individuals attempting to get money from ACORN, but not actually doing the work they were supposed to do. So, the fraud was not because the organization itself condoned it, but because some individuals chose to cheat.

A lady came to my door a couple of weeks ago, checking addresses and so forth for the census. She seemed to know what she was doing, very professional.





Happytime
by on Jun. 19, 2009 at 10:24 PM


Quoting mamadixon:

What a great question!

Quoting Merry74:

No, I think you are mistaken.  I'm pretty sure ACORN workers were themselves committing fraud as well as the question of how bizarre the results have to be before you pin the people in charge for negligence at the very least.  When your office suddenly has voter registrations for the entire Dallas Cowboys team (and you're not in Dallas) somebody should have taken notice and done something.  Even if ACORN didn't intend to commit fraud (and I think they did), do we want someone so negligent involved?

Quoting PamR:

If I'm not mistaken, the voter registration was committed by individuals attempting to get money from ACORN, but not actually doing the work they were supposed to do. So, the fraud was not because the organization itself condoned it, but because some individuals chose to cheat.

A lady came to my door a couple of weeks ago, checking addresses and so forth for the census. She seemed to know what she was doing, very professional.

 


It is a great question, lets see Maybe we coud get the Polar opposite involved like the John Burk society...but then again they have never been accused of Fraud... hmmm

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tericared
by on Jun. 19, 2009 at 10:34 PM

 ACORN in 2006, we learned that then-Attorney General Alberto Gonzales had fired Republican US Attorneys because they refused to prosecute ACORN and other voter assistance groups on trumped up fraud charges.  This was the heart of the US Attorney-gate scandal that led Karl Rove, Gonzales and other top Department of Justice officials to resign.  Because the press didn’t catch on until long after the election, it was part of a successful strategy to create an unfounded specter of voter fraud and to suppress voting.

 

Key Facts:

  1. In order to help 1.3 million people register to vote, we hired more than 13,000 registration assistance workers.  As with any business or agency that operates at this scale, there are always some people who want to get paid without really doing the job, or who aim to defraud their employer.  Any large department store will have some workers who shoplift.  

  2. Any large voter registration operation will have a small percentage of workers who turn in bogus registration forms. Their goal clearly is not to cast a fraudulent vote.  It is simply to defraud their employer, ACORN, by getting a paycheck without earning it. ACORN is the victim of this fraud – not the perpetrator.

  3. In nearly every case that has been reported , it was ACORN that discovered the bad forms, and called them to the attention of election authorities, putting the forms in a package that identified them in writing as suspicious, encouraging election officials to investigate, and offering to help with prosecutions.  We are required by law to turn in all forms, but instead of just turning them in and figuring that it is the responsibility of the board of elections to figure out which are valid, we spend millions of dollars verifying that forms are valid, and then separate out those that are suspicious.

  4. This has nothing to do with “voter fraud” – nothing at all to do with anyone trying to cast an extra vote.  There has never been a single reported instance in which bogus registration forms have led to anyone voting improperly.  To do that, they would have to show up at the polls, prove their identity as all first-time registrants must, and risk jail. The people who turned in these forms did so not because they wanted an extra vote, but because they didn’t care enough to make sure eligible people got to vote at all.

  5. When a department store calls the police to report a shoplifting employee, no one says the department store is guilty of consumer fraud.  But for some reason, when ACORN turns voter registration workers over to the authorities for filling out bogus forms, it gets accused of “voter fraud.”  This is a classic case of blaming the victim; indeed, these charges are outrageous, libelous, and often politically motivated.

  6. Similar attacks were launched against ACORN and other voter registration organizations in 2004 and 2006. The bogus charges were at the heart of the U.S. Attorney-gate scandal that led to the resignations of Karl Rove, Attorney General Ablerto Gonzales and other top Justice Department Officials.  It turned out that it was the charges that were fraudulent, and that they were part of a systematic partisan agenda of voter suppression.

    1. Republican former US Attorney in New Mexico, David Iglesias said he was fired because he refused White House pressure to charge ACORN with voter fraud he knew it had not committed.  

    2. US attorney, Bradley Schlozman, who did politicize prosecutions against former ACORN canvassers was forced to acknowledge under cross examination by the Senate Judiciary Committee that ACORN was the victim of fraud by its employees and ACORN had caught the employees and had identified them to law enforcement.

  7. The goals of the people orchestrating these attacks are to distract ACORN from helping people vote and to justify massive voter suppression.  That’s the real voter fraud; the noise about a small fraction of the forms ACORN has turned in is meant to get the press and public take their eyes off the real threat, while those hurling the charges are stealing people’s right to vote in broad daylight.  They have already tried to prevent Ohio from registering voters at its early voting sites.  In Michigan, they planned to use foreclosure notices to challenge thousands of voters. In Indiana, Republican officials have gone to court to try to block early voting in Lake County, Indiana And if this year is like past years, they are preparing to use this so-called voter fraud to justify massive challenges to voters in minority precincts on Election Day

tericared
by on Jun. 19, 2009 at 10:35 PM

 just puting some info from the other side for you to see..

Happytime
by on Jun. 19, 2009 at 10:36 PM


Quoting tericared:

 ACORN in 2006, we learned that then-Attorney General Alberto Gonzales had fired Republican US Attorneys because they refused to prosecute ACORN and other voter assistance groups on trumped up fraud charges.  This was the heart of the US Attorney-gate scandal that led Karl Rove, Gonzales and other top Department of Justice officials to resign.  Because the press didn’t catch on until long after the election, it was part of a successful strategy to create an unfounded specter of voter fraud and to suppress voting.

 

 

 

Key Facts:

  1. In order to help 1.3 million people register to vote, we hired more than 13,000 registration assistance workers.  As with any business or agency that operates at this scale, there are always some people who want to get paid without really doing the job, or who aim to defraud their employer.  Any large department store will have some workers who shoplift.  

  2. Any large voter registration operation will have a small percentage of workers who turn in bogus registration forms. Their goal clearly is not to cast a fraudulent vote.  It is simply to defraud their employer, ACORN, by getting a paycheck without earning it. ACORN is the victim of this fraud – not the perpetrator.

  3. In nearly every case that has been reported , it was ACORN that discovered the bad forms, and called them to the attention of election authorities, putting the forms in a package that identified them in writing as suspicious, encouraging election officials to investigate, and offering to help with prosecutions.  We are required by law to turn in all forms, but instead of just turning them in and figuring that it is the responsibility of the board of elections to figure out which are valid, we spend millions of dollars verifying that forms are valid, and then separate out those that are suspicious.

  4. This has nothing to do with “voter fraud” – nothing at all to do with anyone trying to cast an extra vote.  There has never been a single reported instance in which bogus registration forms have led to anyone voting improperly.  To do that, they would have to show up at the polls, prove their identity as all first-time registrants must, and risk jail. The people who turned in these forms did so not because they wanted an extra vote, but because they didn’t care enough to make sure eligible people got to vote at all.

  5. When a department store calls the police to report a shoplifting employee, no one says the department store is guilty of consumer fraud.  But for some reason, when ACORN turns voter registration workers over to the authorities for filling out bogus forms, it gets accused of “voter fraud.”  This is a classic case of blaming the victim; indeed, these charges are outrageous, libelous, and often politically motivated.

  6. Similar attacks were launched against ACORN and other voter registration organizations in 2004 and 2006. The bogus charges were at the heart of the U.S. Attorney-gate scandal that led to the resignations of Karl Rove, Attorney General Ablerto Gonzales and other top Justice Department Officials.  It turned out that it was the charges that were fraudulent, and that they were part of a systematic partisan agenda of voter suppression.

    1. Republican former US Attorney in New Mexico, David Iglesias said he was fired because he refused White House pressure to charge ACORN with voter fraud he knew it had not committed.  

    2. US attorney, Bradley Schlozman, who did politicize prosecutions against former ACORN canvassers was forced to acknowledge under cross examination by the Senate Judiciary Committee that ACORN was the victim of fraud by its employees and ACORN had caught the employees and had identified them to law enforcement.

  7. The goals of the people orchestrating these attacks are to distract ACORN from helping people vote and to justify massive voter suppression.  That’s the real voter fraud; the noise about a small fraction of the forms ACORN has turned in is meant to get the press and public take their eyes off the real threat, while those hurling the charges are stealing people’s right to vote in broad daylight.  They have already tried to prevent Ohio from registering voters at its early voting sites.  In Michigan, they planned to use foreclosure notices to challenge thousands of voters. In Indiana, Republican officials have gone to court to try to block early voting in Lake County, Indiana And if this year is like past years, they are preparing to use this so-called voter fraud to justify massive challenges to voters in minority precincts on Election Day

The only trouble is that even in MN. some of the contested counties in the Senate Debacle to put snarky comedian in a seat had more voters then they did registered people....Hmmm....

Go to fullsize image


tericared
by on Jun. 19, 2009 at 10:45 PM


Quoting Happytime:


Quoting tericared:

 ACORN in 2006, we learned that then-Attorney General Alberto Gonzales had fired Republican US Attorneys because they refused to prosecute ACORN and other voter assistance groups on trumped up fraud charges.  This was the heart of the US Attorney-gate scandal that led Karl Rove, Gonzales and other top Department of Justice officials to resign.  Because the press didn’t catch on until long after the election, it was part of a successful strategy to create an unfounded specter of voter fraud and to suppress voting.

 

 

 

Key Facts:

  1. In order to help 1.3 million people register to vote, we hired more than 13,000 registration assistance workers.  As with any business or agency that operates at this scale, there are always some people who want to get paid without really doing the job, or who aim to defraud their employer.  Any large department store will have some workers who shoplift.  

  2. Any large voter registration operation will have a small percentage of workers who turn in bogus registration forms. Their goal clearly is not to cast a fraudulent vote.  It is simply to defraud their employer, ACORN, by getting a paycheck without earning it. ACORN is the victim of this fraud – not the perpetrator.

  3. In nearly every case that has been reported , it was ACORN that discovered the bad forms, and called them to the attention of election authorities, putting the forms in a package that identified them in writing as suspicious, encouraging election officials to investigate, and offering to help with prosecutions.  We are required by law to turn in all forms, but instead of just turning them in and figuring that it is the responsibility of the board of elections to figure out which are valid, we spend millions of dollars verifying that forms are valid, and then separate out those that are suspicious.

  4. This has nothing to do with “voter fraud” – nothing at all to do with anyone trying to cast an extra vote.  There has never been a single reported instance in which bogus registration forms have led to anyone voting improperly.  To do that, they would have to show up at the polls, prove their identity as all first-time registrants must, and risk jail. The people who turned in these forms did so not because they wanted an extra vote, but because they didn’t care enough to make sure eligible people got to vote at all.

  5. When a department store calls the police to report a shoplifting employee, no one says the department store is guilty of consumer fraud.  But for some reason, when ACORN turns voter registration workers over to the authorities for filling out bogus forms, it gets accused of “voter fraud.”  This is a classic case of blaming the victim; indeed, these charges are outrageous, libelous, and often politically motivated.

  6. Similar attacks were launched against ACORN and other voter registration organizations in 2004 and 2006. The bogus charges were at the heart of the U.S. Attorney-gate scandal that led to the resignations of Karl Rove, Attorney General Ablerto Gonzales and other top Justice Department Officials.  It turned out that it was the charges that were fraudulent, and that they were part of a systematic partisan agenda of voter suppression.

    1. Republican former US Attorney in New Mexico, David Iglesias said he was fired because he refused White House pressure to charge ACORN with voter fraud he knew it had not committed.  

    2. US attorney, Bradley Schlozman, who did politicize prosecutions against former ACORN canvassers was forced to acknowledge under cross examination by the Senate Judiciary Committee that ACORN was the victim of fraud by its employees and ACORN had caught the employees and had identified them to law enforcement.

  7. The goals of the people orchestrating these attacks are to distract ACORN from helping people vote and to justify massive voter suppression.  That’s the real voter fraud; the noise about a small fraction of the forms ACORN has turned in is meant to get the press and public take their eyes off the real threat, while those hurling the charges are stealing people’s right to vote in broad daylight.  They have already tried to prevent Ohio from registering voters at its early voting sites.  In Michigan, they planned to use foreclosure notices to challenge thousands of voters. In Indiana, Republican officials have gone to court to try to block early voting in Lake County, Indiana And if this year is like past years, they are preparing to use this so-called voter fraud to justify massive challenges to voters in minority precincts on Election Day

The only trouble is that even in MN. some of the contested counties in the Senate Debacle to put snarky comedian in a seat had more voters then they did registered people....Hmmm....


 

yep it clearly states some people messed up just to get paid with out doing the job...

there are always some people who want to get paid without really doing the job, or who aim to defraud their employer.  Any large department store will have some workers who shoplift.  

Happytime
by on Jun. 19, 2009 at 11:23 PM


Quoting tericared:


Quoting Happytime:


Quoting tericared:

 ACORN in 2006, we learned that then-Attorney General Alberto Gonzales had fired Republican US Attorneys because they refused to prosecute ACORN and other voter assistance groups on trumped up fraud charges.  This was the heart of the US Attorney-gate scandal that led Karl Rove, Gonzales and other top Department of Justice officials to resign.  Because the press didn’t catch on until long after the election, it was part of a successful strategy to create an unfounded specter of voter fraud and to suppress voting.

 

 

 

Key Facts:

  1. In order to help 1.3 million people register to vote, we hired more than 13,000 registration assistance workers.  As with any business or agency that operates at this scale, there are always some people who want to get paid without really doing the job, or who aim to defraud their employer.  Any large department store will have some workers who shoplift.  

  2. Any large voter registration operation will have a small percentage of workers who turn in bogus registration forms. Their goal clearly is not to cast a fraudulent vote.  It is simply to defraud their employer, ACORN, by getting a paycheck without earning it. ACORN is the victim of this fraud – not the perpetrator.

  3. In nearly every case that has been reported , it was ACORN that discovered the bad forms, and called them to the attention of election authorities, putting the forms in a package that identified them in writing as suspicious, encouraging election officials to investigate, and offering to help with prosecutions.  We are required by law to turn in all forms, but instead of just turning them in and figuring that it is the responsibility of the board of elections to figure out which are valid, we spend millions of dollars verifying that forms are valid, and then separate out those that are suspicious.

  4. This has nothing to do with “voter fraud” – nothing at all to do with anyone trying to cast an extra vote.  There has never been a single reported instance in which bogus registration forms have led to anyone voting improperly.  To do that, they would have to show up at the polls, prove their identity as all first-time registrants must, and risk jail. The people who turned in these forms did so not because they wanted an extra vote, but because they didn’t care enough to make sure eligible people got to vote at all.

  5. When a department store calls the police to report a shoplifting employee, no one says the department store is guilty of consumer fraud.  But for some reason, when ACORN turns voter registration workers over to the authorities for filling out bogus forms, it gets accused of “voter fraud.”  This is a classic case of blaming the victim; indeed, these charges are outrageous, libelous, and often politically motivated.

  6. Similar attacks were launched against ACORN and other voter registration organizations in 2004 and 2006. The bogus charges were at the heart of the U.S. Attorney-gate scandal that led to the resignations of Karl Rove, Attorney General Ablerto Gonzales and other top Justice Department Officials.  It turned out that it was the charges that were fraudulent, and that they were part of a systematic partisan agenda of voter suppression.

    1. Republican former US Attorney in New Mexico, David Iglesias said he was fired because he refused White House pressure to charge ACORN with voter fraud he knew it had not committed.  

    2. US attorney, Bradley Schlozman, who did politicize prosecutions against former ACORN canvassers was forced to acknowledge under cross examination by the Senate Judiciary Committee that ACORN was the victim of fraud by its employees and ACORN had caught the employees and had identified them to law enforcement.

  7. The goals of the people orchestrating these attacks are to distract ACORN from helping people vote and to justify massive voter suppression.  That’s the real voter fraud; the noise about a small fraction of the forms ACORN has turned in is meant to get the press and public take their eyes off the real threat, while those hurling the charges are stealing people’s right to vote in broad daylight.  They have already tried to prevent Ohio from registering voters at its early voting sites.  In Michigan, they planned to use foreclosure notices to challenge thousands of voters. In Indiana, Republican officials have gone to court to try to block early voting in Lake County, Indiana And if this year is like past years, they are preparing to use this so-called voter fraud to justify massive challenges to voters in minority precincts on Election Day

The only trouble is that even in MN. some of the contested counties in the Senate Debacle to put snarky comedian in a seat had more voters then they did registered people....Hmmm....


 

yep it clearly states some people messed up just to get paid with out doing the job...

there are always some people who want to get paid without really doing the job, or who aim to defraud their employer.  Any large department store will have some workers who shoplift.  


there can be no arguing that logic, but at a point there becomes Vicarious Liability.. where the Employer is liable for not directing its employees properly.

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tericared
by on Jun. 20, 2009 at 12:07 AM

so they hire 13,000 people and have to watch over each one?

Eilish
by on Jun. 20, 2009 at 12:32 AM


Quoting tericared:

so they hire 13,000 people and have to watch over each one?

Yes!


Happytime
by on Jun. 20, 2009 at 12:54 AM


Quoting tericared:

so they hire 13,000 people and have to watch over each one?

Their employees are required to meet Quotas if they are not met they are fired, this is pretty harsh since its Commnity Organizing and " all they want to do is help" but they place themselves in Low income areas .. its by design TC ....

and yes its called supervision...

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