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Abortion

Posted by on Jul. 20, 2009 at 12:51 PM
  • 177 Replies

OK ladies, let's try something new here shall we? How about we discuss Abortion, in one central location, instead of clogging other posts, where it has no bearing.

So, tell me ladies, where do you stand on this issue, and why?

The way I see it, isn't necessarily the way you see it. Or the way it is, or ought to be. What's more important, is that we're all looking for it, and a way to see it.


Desi DeNardo (via Starbucks coffee cup)

by on Jul. 20, 2009 at 12:51 PM
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Replies (1-10):
mamaof32007
by on Jul. 20, 2009 at 12:56 PM

I do not support abortion, however I myself would never get one done. (my body)  IF my child were to ever get raped nad got pregnant I would still not let her get an abortion, if she is under the age of 17.  Once she is over the age of 17 it will be her choice (her body)  Anyone who becomes pregnant it is there choice, it is none of my business what someone does. 

Eilish
by on Jul. 20, 2009 at 1:00 PM

Staunchly prolife .... The science proves that life begins at conception; the Constitution is designed to protect all life; and abortion is mode of eugenics.


Gretchen2876
by Silver Member on Jul. 20, 2009 at 1:00 PM


Quoting Eilish:

 and abortion is mode of eugenics.


How do you figure?

The way I see it, isn't necessarily the way you see it. Or the way it is, or ought to be. What's more important, is that we're all looking for it, and a way to see it.


Desi DeNardo (via Starbucks coffee cup)

LSmomof1
by on Jul. 20, 2009 at 1:06 PM

okay I am going to be MASSIVELY hated here but I will be honest. I had an abortion. doctor told me my it was a risk for my my epilepsy to carry out a pregnancy. not an excuse- just part of  reason for what I did. However, I would NEVER do it again ( and I haven't, I have my son) it is an emotionally horrible experience, and a physically horrible one as well. I do not judge people who have had one, that would make me a hypocrit. I guess I am pro-choice on this one.

mother of one loving autistic boy,proud fan of MIchael Jackson,wife to charles,proud gymnastics coach, pro choice,earth-friendly,open-minded,and one cookie loving girl!!!!

jigsaw ribbon

Eilish
by on Jul. 20, 2009 at 1:09 PM


Quoting Gretchen2876:


Quoting Eilish:

 and abortion is mode of eugenics.


How do you figure?

Let me rephrase to say that modern day abortion, and the promotion via Planned Parenthood is a mode of eugenics that was championed by their founder Margaret Sanger .... see article below.

http://www.blackgenocide.org/sanger.html

How Planned Parenthood Duped America

At a March 1925 international birth control gathering in New York City, a speaker warned of the menace posed by the "black" and "yellow" peril. The man was not a Nazi or Klansman; he was Dr. S. Adolphus Knopf, a member of Margaret Sanger's American Birth Control League (ABCL), which along with other groups eventually became known as Planned Parenthood.

Sanger's other colleagues included avowed and sophisticated racists. One, Lothrop Stoddard, was a Harvard graduate and the author of The Rising Tide of Color against White Supremacy. Stoddard was something of a Nazi enthusiast who described the eugenic practices of the Third Reich as "scientific" and "humanitarian." And Dr. Harry Laughlin, another Sanger associate and board member for her group, spoke of purifying America's human "breeding stock" and purging America's "bad strains." These "strains" included the "shiftless, ignorant, and worthless class of antisocial whites of the South."

Not to be outdone by her followers, Margaret Sanger spoke of sterilizing those she designated as "unfit," a plan she said would be the "salvation of American civilization.: And she also spike of those who were "irresponsible and reckless," among whom she included those " whose religious scruples prevent their exercising control over their numbers." She further contended that "there is no doubt in the minds of all thinking people that the procreation of this group should be stopped." That many Americans of African origin constituted a segment of Sanger considered "unfit" cannot be easily refuted.

While Planned Parenthood's current apologists try to place some distance between the eugenics and birth control movements, history definitively says otherwise. The eugenic theme figured prominently in the Birth Control Review, which Sanger founded in 1917. She published such articles as "Some Moral Aspects of Eugenics" (June 1920), "The Eugenic Conscience" (February 1921), "The purpose of Eugenics" (December 1924), "Birth Control and Positive Eugenics" (July 1925), "Birth Control: The True Eugenics" (August 1928), and many others.

These eugenic and racial origins are hardly what most people associate with the modern Planned Parenthood Federation of America (PPFA), which gave its Margaret Sanger award to the late Dr. Martin Luther King in 1966, and whose current president, Faye Wattleton, is black, a former nurse, and attractive.

Though once a social pariah group, routinely castigated by religious and government leaders, the PPFA is now an established, high-profile, well-funded organization with ample organizational and ideological support in high places of American society and government. Its statistics are accepted by major media and public health officials as "gospel"; its full-page ads appear in major newspapers; its spokespeople are called upon to give authoritative analyses of what America's family policies should be and to prescribe official answers that congressmen, state legislator and Supreme Court justiices all accept as "social orthodoxy."

Blaming Families

Sanger's obsession with eugenics can be traced back to her own family. One of 11 children, she wrote in the autobiographical book, My Fight for Birth Control, that "I associated poverty, toil, unemployment, drunkenness, cruelty, quarreling, fighting, debts, jails with large families." Just as important was the impression in her childhood of an inferior family status, exacerbated by the iconoclastic, "free-thinking" views of her father, whose "anti-Catholic attitudes did not make for his popularity" in a predominantly Irish community.


The fact that the wealthy families in her hometown of Corning, N.Y., had relatively few children, Sanger took as prima facie evidence of the impoverishing effect of larger families. The personal impact of this belief was heightened 1899, at the age of 48. Sanger was convinced that the "ordeals of motherhood" had caused the death of her mother. The lingering consumption (tuberculosis) that took her mother's life visited Sanger at the birth of her own first child on Nov. 18, 1905. The diagnosis forced her to seek refuge in the Adirondacks to strengthen her for the impending birth. Despite the precautions, the birth of baby Grant was "agonizing," the mere memory of which Sanger described as "mental torture" more than 25 years later. She once described the experience as a factor "to be reckoned with" in her zealous campaign for birth control.

From the beginning, Sanger advocacy of sex education reflected her interest in population control and birth prevention among the "unfit." Her first handbook, published for adolescents in 1915 and entitled, What Every Boy and Girl Should Know, featured a jarring afterword:

It is a vicious cycle; ignorance breeds poverty and poverty breeds ignorance. There is only one cure for both, and that is to stoop breeding these things. Stop bringing to birth children whose inheritance cannot be one of health or intelligence. Stop bringing into the world children whose parents cannot provide for them.

To Sanger, the ebbing away of moral and religious codes over sexual conduct was a natural consequence of the worthlessness of such codes in the individual's search for self-fulfillment. "Instead of laying down hard and fast rules of sexual conduct," Sanger wrote in her 1922 book Pivot of Civilization, "sex can be rendered effective and valuable only as it meets and satisfies the interests and demands of the pupil himself." Her attitude is appropriately described as libertinism, but sex knowledge was not the same as individual liberty, as her writings on procreation emphasized.

The second edition of Sanger's life story, An Autobiography, appeared in 1938. There Sanger described her first cross-country lecture tour in 1916. Her standard speech asserted seven conditions of life that "mandated" the use of birth control: the third was "when parents, though normal, had subnormal children"; the fourth, "when husband and wife were adolescent"; the fifth, "when the earning capacity of the father was inadequate." No right existed to exercise sex knowledge to advance procreation. Sanger described the fact that "anyone, no matter how ignorant, how diseased mentally or physically, how lacking in all knowledge of children, seemed to consider he or she had the right to become a parent."

Religious Bigotry

In the 1910's and 1920's, the entire social order–religion, law, politics, medicine, and the media–was arrayed against the idea and practice of birth control. This opposition began in 1873 when an overwhelmingly Protestant Congress passed, and a Protestant president signed into law, a bill that became known as the Comstock Law, named after its main proponent, Anthony Comstock. The U.S. Congress classified obscene writing, along with drugs, and devices and articles that prevented conception or caused abortion, under the same net of criminality and forbade their importation or mailing.

Sanger set out to have such legislation abolished or amended. Her initial efforts were directed at the Congress with the opening of a Washington, D.C., office of her American Birth Control League in 1926. Sanger wanted to amend section 211 of the U.S. criminal code to allow the interstate shipment and mailing of contraceptives among physicians, druggists and drug manufacturers.

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aidans_mama
by on Jul. 20, 2009 at 1:16 PM

pro-choice.  personally, i could not have another abortion (i had one when i was 18), i wonder if God will punish me with breast cancer now.  i have no desire to interfere with another woman's decision as to what she should do, i have no desire to judge her, nor do i have the desire to condemn her.  i am for her choice to do what she feels is best for her.  i do hope that she would consider all other options before feeling she has no other choice than to abort.

iluvmommyhood58
by Bronze Member on Jul. 20, 2009 at 1:19 PM
Quoting LSmomof1:

okay I am going to be MASSIVELY hated here but I will be honest. I had an abortion. doctor told me my it was a risk for my my epilepsy to carry out a pregnancy. not an excuse- just part of  reason for what I did. However, I would NEVER do it again ( and I haven't, I have my son) it is an emotionally horrible experience, and a physically horrible one as well. I do not judge people who have had one, that would make me a hypocrit. I guess I am pro-choice on this one.





I don't think that would make you a hypocrite. I think you are someone who could actually make a pretty educated assessment having gone through it yourself. I think people could learn a lot from your experience. I wish this kind of truth would be more spoken of. People should know how much of a toll it takes on someone physically and emotionally before making the decision.
iluvmommyhood58
by Bronze Member on Jul. 20, 2009 at 1:20 PM
Quoting Eilish:



Let me rephrase to say that modern day abortion, and the promotion via Planned Parenthood is a mode of eugenics that was championed by their founder Margaret Sanger .... see article below.




yes
MattisMommy08
by Bronze Member on Jul. 20, 2009 at 1:21 PM

Perosnally, I believe that it is way too easy to get one.   Regardless of your personal beliefs, I think that is something that everyone could agree on.  I knew girls in high school who had one with out their parents ever finding out.  In fact, I looked into it to see how far I could go without my parents knowing.  Apparently, planned parenthood offers you a way to get a court ordered temporary guardian.  You are assigned a guardian for a day.  Acting as your guardian, this adult can now consent to and sign all necessary papers for an abortion to be performed.  I was 15 when I looked into this.  I wasn't planning on getting one or anything, I was just curious how far I could take it. 

I believe that many young girls use abortion to cover their butts when they weren't being safe.  It is the fear of parents and friends finding out and lack of support that drives them to this decision. 

I also think that most women are not correctly educated on the subject before making the decision.  They are not informed 100% about the procedure or the consequences afterwards - physically and emotionally.

If outlawed completely, yes, there will be 'underground' clinics where people will still pursue the procedure.  That is true with ANYTHING that is outlawed and always will.
Maybe making the procedure safer, informing women of their options, and not having organizations that seem to promote it like a business would be a better answer.

 

Oh, and I also belive that everyone can say what they want to about what their beliefs are or what their religion says... but until you are personally in the situation where one might be an option for you, you can never be confident of what choices you will make.

mrs_khan07
by Silver Member on Jul. 20, 2009 at 1:21 PM


Quoting LSmomof1:

okay I am going to be MASSIVELY hated here but I will be honest. I had an abortion. doctor told me my it was a risk for my my epilepsy to carry out a pregnancy. not an excuse- just part of  reason for what I did. However, I would NEVER do it again ( and I haven't, I have my son) it is an emotionally horrible experience, and a physically horrible one as well. I do not judge people who have had one, that would make me a hypocrit. I guess I am pro-choice on this one.

It took you a lot of guts to say this, especially in this group. You did what you felt you had to do at the time, you don't have to explain yourself to anyone. I may have different views on abortion, but I would never judge or put someone down for it. I have different views for me, and I would never expect the rest of the world to comply with my views. I think that's why this is such a huge issue, people need to realize that whole world doesn't agree with them and hurting people who don't agree is not going to change anything.

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Mrs. Khan

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