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Current Events & Hot Topics Current Events & Hot Topics

Obam's bad health plan - the truth

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by on Aug. 9, 2009 at 10:49 AM
Replies (71-80):
mamadixon
by Gold Member on Aug. 10, 2009 at 3:14 PM

more of the same.

Quoting PestPatti:

 


 

Quote:

And, btw,  I LOVE it when RWers talk about removing our liberties.  Liberties they were all willing to part with under Bush.  Can you say PATRIOT ACT?  It's mind boggling, really.


The Patriot Act, often criticized under President Bush, is now about to be renewed by the Obama administration. 

Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) Director Robert S. Mueller III went before the U.S. Senate on March 26, 2009, asking that provisions in the USA Patriot Act be renewed.  It will expire at the end of the year.

I guess its bad when it's the Right Wingers, but peechy keen when its Obama doing it.     Your bias is showing..


BeamerBruin
by Member on Aug. 10, 2009 at 4:29 PM

Thank you! Healthcare should NOT be for profit! It is a basic human right, just as basic education is. Insurance exists to spread the risk over a population - and that is a good idea, however insurance companies have ONE bottom line - $$$$. NOT the health and well-being of American Citizens. Shouldn't the bottom line be creating a healthier America? Shouldn't we be focusing on how much money we WASTE in healthcare each year? And if you're wondering exactly what we waste our money on, check this out:

http://finance.yahoo.com/insurance/article/107498/health-care-six-money-wasting-problems.html?mod=insurance-health

Some of the main culprits include unneccessary tests done by doctors in an effort to CYA (so I completely agree that we need tort reform - malpractice insurance rates are out of control), processing claim forms in an attempt to get these oh-so-wonderful private insurance companies to actually pay on valid claims, and unneccessary ER visits - which are often by those who are uninsured (not to mention we need to focus more money on preventative medicine rather than end-of-life care, etc.)

There is no such thing as a perfect system, but Obama is correct in saying that we need to rein in these private insurers...and while I don't agree with everything "Obamacare" is proposing (the deal they have made with Big Pharma is scary to say the least), at least Obama recognizes the dire need to REFORM the current system and is not afraid to at least address it. Btw, I'm not some crazy in love with Obama mama - he is a politician just like all politicians, but unfortunately that is the nature of the beast.

And I fully agree that the ones we should focus on paying, in the end, are the nurses, doctors, PTs/OTs/RTs/STs, radiologists, medical social workers, CNAs and all the others who dedicate their lives to helping US and our loved ones in times of greatest need.

Quoting momandvet:

The government has nothing to gain by denying you life saving surgery.  Now if that surgery is expensive than the insurance company has a lot to gain by denying you.  It happens all the time to people.  I am sorry, but this has to be the most bullshit argument of them all.   The major issue with our healthcare system is the fact that the insurance companies have free rain.  There is no need for the funding of healthcare to be a for profit business.  The only people who deserve money are the Doctors and Nurses who actually treat people. 

Quoting Nicole1002:

There is no free market?  What?  Um ok?  I agree there need to be changes in our healthcare system as to the cost ect..  But I don't want the government to tell me if I can have a life saving surgery or not.  AND I REFUSE TO PAY FOR OTHERS ABORTIONS!  PERIOD.  They put that in there and I won't pay my taxes.  AT ALL!  You wanna kill babies... do it on your dime!

This is going to put alot of people out of work.  Small business' will close due to even higher taxes.  Plus why should we pay for the drug dealers, prostitutes, and just lazy americans to have insurance.  Get a job... work, get health insurance.... The REAL American way!




zweedledee
by Bronze Member on Aug. 11, 2009 at 1:01 PM

I agree 1000%. And also we could reform healthcare DRAMATICALLY if people would take responsibility for their own health by eating healthy- fruits-veggies, limiting animal foods, drinking non-flouridated/chlorinated water, exercising, sleeping well, and  AVOIDING dr.'s, insurance companies, and medications!! And TAXING fast food restaruants like CIGARETTES and ALCOHOL.

I guess some people need government to intervene in their options because they can't decide what is good and bad.  C-sections for breech babies at 30 weeks, What a joke, LOL!!! 

Quoting home-sweet-home:

We could save tons of money by allowing women to use midwives if they are low risk.


zweedledee
by Bronze Member on Aug. 11, 2009 at 1:04 PM


Quoting BeamerBruin:

need to rein in these private insurers...and while I don't agree with everything "Obamacare" is proposing (the deal they have made with Big Pharma is scary to say the least), at least Obama recognizes the dire need to REFORM the current system and is not afraid to at least address it. Btw, I'm not some crazy in love with Obama

Can you tell me about this? I didn't know about this. What is this that you know of?

resamerie
by Platinum Member on Aug. 11, 2009 at 1:08 PM


Quoting AdkArmyMom:

Obama says that if we have insurance that we like, we won't have to make a change.  OK, I accept that.  My question, though, is what happens if it's cheaper for the employer to abandon the insurance plans they currently have and go with something government sponsored?   While the government is not taking away my choice directly, is there the possibility that employers will make the jump to something else to reduce THEIR costs thus making it possible that those of us who currently have great insurance will end up with less coverage?

Does anyone know?

That's been my point since the beginning. Also, if so many people are happy with the coverage they have now, why do we not add money into medicare/medicaid for the people who need it instead of cutting funds for it?





  • angel-1-1-1-2.jpg picture by kfpep
zweedledee
by Bronze Member on Aug. 11, 2009 at 1:15 PM

Just because someone doesn't agree with socialized healthcare doesn't mean that they believe in the money pit that we have now.

It's this issue for me.... I am a freedom LOVER. I love having freedom to choose. I would HATE it if I was FORCED to do anything. And since before I was born our government has been taking freedoms AWAY from people. They take the peoples money with the promise that some service will be provided then the money either DISAPPEARS, or directly goes into the pockets of fat cats. (the bailouts). I am really poor anyways, and my husband works 7 days a week when there is work at his job. We have such little money that this plan will probably benefit my family PERSONALLY. But I am not so selfish that I am not looking at the bigger picture, and realizing what MORE government can do to our freedoms. BIGGER government is SCARY to me, on a much greater scale. 

But I do agree with the fact that the PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRY, the doctors, and the insurance companies are SCREWING the american people.


Quoting margroc:

I don't get why people can't understand this and are fighting for the for-profit ins. companies.

Quoting momandvet:

The government has nothing to gain by denying you life saving surgery.  Now if that surgery is expensive than the insurance company has a lot to gain by denying you.  It happens all the time to people.  I am sorry, but this has to be the most bullshit argument of them all.   The major issue with our healthcare system is the fact that the insurance companies have free rain.  There is no need for the finding of healthcare to be a for profit business.  The only people who deserve money are the Doctors and Nurses who actually treat people. 

Quoting Nicole1002:

There is no free market?  What?  Um ok?  I agree there need to be changes in our healthcare system as to the cost ect..  But I don't want the government to tell me if I can have a life saving surgery or not.  AND I REFUSE TO PAY FOR OTHERS ABORTIONS!  PERIOD.  They put that in there and I won't pay my taxes.  AT ALL!  You wanna kill babies... do it on your dime!

This is going to put alot of people out of work.  Small business' will close due to even higher taxes.  Plus why should we pay for the drug dealers, prostitutes, and just lazy americans to have insurance.  Get a job... work, get health insurance.... The REAL American way!





BeamerBruin
by Member on Aug. 11, 2009 at 1:25 PM

Here is one of the articles I've read about it:

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2009/08/10/pharma/index.html?source=rss&aim=/opinion/feature

This is actually a fairly liberal, progressive online news publication - which just goes to show that you can be an Obama supporter without thinking he is perfect or drinking the Koolaid ;)

Quoting zweedledee:


Quoting BeamerBruin:

need to rein in these private insurers...and while I don't agree with everything "Obamacare" is proposing (the deal they have made with Big Pharma is scary to say the least), at least Obama recognizes the dire need to REFORM the current system and is not afraid to at least address it. Btw, I'm not some crazy in love with Obama

Can you tell me about this? I didn't know about this. What is this that you know of?


momandvet
by on Aug. 11, 2009 at 1:45 PM

What we eat and drink has little to do with health, and much more to do with genetics.   Also socio-economic factors can effect that as the wealthier you are the better care you receive. 

Quoting zweedledee:

I agree 1000%. And also we could reform healthcare DRAMATICALLY if people would take responsibility for their own health by eating healthy- fruits-veggies, limiting animal foods, drinking non-flouridated/chlorinated water, exercising, sleeping well, and  AVOIDING dr.'s, insurance companies, and medications!! And TAXING fast food restaruants like CIGARETTES and ALCOHOL.

I guess some people need government to intervene in their options because they can't decide what is good and bad.  C-sections for breech babies at 30 weeks, What a joke, LOL!!! 

Quoting home-sweet-home:

We could save tons of money by allowing women to use midwives if they are low risk.



momandvet
by on Aug. 11, 2009 at 1:53 PM

I am not happy at all with the corporate sponsership of government, but as long  corporate machines are treated like people who deserve protection, our hands are tied.  

This plan however is not going to take out the insurance companies.  You still have a choice, but now you can have healthcare for your family also.  Those who fall in between the medicaid and private insurance will now have a realistic choice.  This bill improves choices not takes them away. 

I am a freedom lover myself, one who is well aware of the freedoms we have lost to the corporate lobbyist.

Quoting zweedledee:

Just because someone doesn't agree with socialized healthcare doesn't mean that they believe in the money pit that we have now.

It's this issue for me.... I am a freedom LOVER. I love having freedom to choose. I would HATE it if I was FORCED to do anything. And since before I was born our government has been taking freedoms AWAY from people. They take the peoples money with the promise that some service will be provided then the money either DISAPPEARS, or directly goes into the pockets of fat cats. (the bailouts). I am really poor anyways, and my husband works 7 days a week when there is work at his job. We have such little money that this plan will probably benefit my family PERSONALLY. But I am not so selfish that I am not looking at the bigger picture, and realizing what MORE government can do to our freedoms. BIGGER government is SCARY to me, on a much greater scale. 

But I do agree with the fact that the PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRY, the doctors, and the insurance companies are SCREWING the american people.


Quoting margroc:

I don't get why people can't understand this and are fighting for the for-profit ins. companies.

Quoting momandvet:

The government has nothing to gain by denying you life saving surgery.  Now if that surgery is expensive than the insurance company has a lot to gain by denying you.  It happens all the time to people.  I am sorry, but this has to be the most bullshit argument of them all.   The major issue with our healthcare system is the fact that the insurance companies have free rain.  There is no need for the finding of healthcare to be a for profit business.  The only people who deserve money are the Doctors and Nurses who actually treat people. 

Quoting Nicole1002:

There is no free market?  What?  Um ok?  I agree there need to be changes in our healthcare system as to the cost ect..  But I don't want the government to tell me if I can have a life saving surgery or not.  AND I REFUSE TO PAY FOR OTHERS ABORTIONS!  PERIOD.  They put that in there and I won't pay my taxes.  AT ALL!  You wanna kill babies... do it on your dime!

This is going to put alot of people out of work.  Small business' will close due to even higher taxes.  Plus why should we pay for the drug dealers, prostitutes, and just lazy americans to have insurance.  Get a job... work, get health insurance.... The REAL American way!






zweedledee
by Bronze Member on Aug. 11, 2009 at 6:32 PM

Do you REALLY believe that? Being that you just told that to someone who has been researching epigenetics for many years. LOL! What we eat and drink has EVERYTHING to do with our health. Genes can be manipulated by factors in our environment (epigenetics).

Genes have very little to do with our health.

That's a cop out for personal responsibility.

Quoting momandvet:

What we eat and drink has little to do with health, and much more to do with genetics.   Also socio-economic factors can effect that as the wealthier you are the better care you receive. 

Quoting zweedledee:

I agree 1000%. And also we could reform healthcare DRAMATICALLY if people would take responsibility for their own health by eating healthy- fruits-veggies, limiting animal foods, drinking non-flouridated/chlorinated water, exercising, sleeping well, and  AVOIDING dr.'s, insurance companies, and medications!! And TAXING fast food restaruants like CIGARETTES and ALCOHOL.

I guess some people need government to intervene in their options because they can't decide what is good and bad.  C-sections for breech babies at 30 weeks, What a joke, LOL!!! 

Quoting home-sweet-home:

We could save tons of money by allowing women to use midwives if they are low risk.




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