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 I have seen a couple of comments, over the past couple of weeks, that truly baffle me. There are really still people here in America that believe that education is NOT a right, and that there should NOT be public education? If so, please tell me why.

http://gmoerch.avonrepresentative.com/
A pond am I, not deep, not shallow.
by on Aug. 24, 2009 at 11:00 AM
Replies (31-40):
stormcris
by Christy on Aug. 25, 2009 at 9:36 PM

Education is a privilege and not a right. I say this due to the fact that a school system has the right to deny to teach anyone as long as the reasons are not protected under equal opportunity. A right is something that cannot legally be taken away from you.

adulation
by Bronze Member on Aug. 25, 2009 at 9:41 PM


Quoting stormcris:

Education is a privilege and not a right. I say this due to the fact that a school system has the right to deny to teach anyone as long as the reasons are not protected under equal opportunity. A right is something that cannot legally be taken away from you.

when is a minor denied an education?  i've never heard of such a case.  even if they commit crimes [in my state at least] they are still allowed an education while serving time.
children who are disabled are provided with special classrooms and teachers,  and children who the public school systems can't provide adequate care for [in my state at least] are given state funds to help pay for a facility that can.


stormcris
by Christy on Aug. 25, 2009 at 9:48 PM

Not in this school system or many I have seen. They have the right to declare a person a threat to the function of the school and kick them out. It has been done as long as I can remember. The threat to function is completely objective.

Quoting adulation:


Quoting stormcris:

Education is a privilege and not a right. I say this due to the fact that a school system has the right to deny to teach anyone as long as the reasons are not protected under equal opportunity. A right is something that cannot legally be taken away from you.

when is a minor denied an education?  i've never heard of such a case.  even if they commit crimes [in my state at least] they are still allowed an education while serving time.
children who are disabled are provided with special classrooms and teachers,  and children who the public school systems can't provide adequate care for [in my state at least] are given state funds to help pay for a facility that can.



adulation
by Bronze Member on Aug. 25, 2009 at 9:52 PM

then maybe something should be done about that.  Here they have teachers that go into the correctional system to help people finish their education,  and if they can't return to school, then to study for their GED.

The way to assure prisoners will never become productive members of society is to completely deny them the very basic education.

Quoting stormcris:

Not in this school system or many I have seen. They have the right to declare a person a threat to the function of the school and kick them out. It has been done as long as I can remember. The threat to function is completely objective.

Quoting adulation:


Quoting stormcris:

Education is a privilege and not a right. I say this due to the fact that a school system has the right to deny to teach anyone as long as the reasons are not protected under equal opportunity. A right is something that cannot legally be taken away from you.

when is a minor denied an education?  i've never heard of such a case.  even if they commit crimes [in my state at least] they are still allowed an education while serving time.
children who are disabled are provided with special classrooms and teachers,  and children who the public school systems can't provide adequate care for [in my state at least] are given state funds to help pay for a facility that can.




stormcris
by Christy on Aug. 25, 2009 at 10:20 PM

I know of a few states that the courts of that state ruled it was a priviledge and students were not entitled to an alternative once expelled.

In a 4-1 decision that some educators praised, the state's highest court also ruled a student does not have an absolute right to an education and, under existing Massachusetts laws, school officials have no obligation to provide alternative education to expelled students.

According to South Dakota Circuit Judge Lori Wilbur, students in the 161 districts of the state are not guaranteed an education. Judge Wilbur found the testimony of superintendents unreliable, and declared that the state is not obligated to prepare students for college or for meaningful employment.


Quoting adulation:

then maybe something should be done about that.  Here they have teachers that go into the correctional system to help people finish their education,  and if they can't return to school, then to study for their GED.

The way to assure prisoners will never become productive members of society is to completely deny them the very basic education.

Quoting stormcris:

Not in this school system or many I have seen. They have the right to declare a person a threat to the function of the school and kick them out. It has been done as long as I can remember. The threat to function is completely objective.

Quoting adulation:


Quoting stormcris:

Education is a privilege and not a right. I say this due to the fact that a school system has the right to deny to teach anyone as long as the reasons are not protected under equal opportunity. A right is something that cannot legally be taken away from you.

when is a minor denied an education?  i've never heard of such a case.  even if they commit crimes [in my state at least] they are still allowed an education while serving time.
children who are disabled are provided with special classrooms and teachers,  and children who the public school systems can't provide adequate care for [in my state at least] are given state funds to help pay for a facility that can.





Gypsyuma
by Gold Member on Aug. 26, 2009 at 4:43 AM


Quoting Eilish:


Quoting Gypsyuma:


Quoting Eilish:


Quoting Kim370:

So, to the people who believe that  nowhere does it state that the Constitution should provide education to its people, those people need to take their kids out of the public school system.  Also, the ones who believe the country should not provide for the health and welfare of its people, then you need to drop your social security, medicare, and your parents should not use medicare/ Medicaid either.  If others do not have the right, then you dont either.

Unfortunately SS is mandatory. You cannot opt out. If that were an option, trust me I would drop out of it. The money I put into only pays for other government programs which the government is paying for with "borrowed" money from SS. There will be NONE when I come to retirement. Because of that, I would LOVE to not pay into it. BTW .... SS was "sold" to the American public as "insurance." Kind of like what the government is doing now with health care ... trying to sell it to the American public as "insurance."

We will also not be putting out kids in public schools.

 


Um... yah.  Did you happen to read that quote about "brotherhood"?  I really really hate it when some people think an entire nation's system should be built around their beliefs and their conveniences.

So because you won't be needing a public school or Medicare, then you think the rest of us should do without too?  Listen up everyone - Eilish here won't be needin' no public schoolin' - so dem dar schools are closin' down.

What happened to this damn country???

 

Oh get off your high horse! The fact is that our Constitution doesn't provide for the government that you are looking for. Don't like it? Then leave. But to violate the Constitution is to violate the rule of law.


I did refute that ridiculous claim - see above at the beginning where I stay that not all rights come from Constitution.  And that human rights include right to education according to United Nations, which we are a member of last time I checked.  And this little quote about "brotherhood", which I think might fly right over your head.

So can "refute" my "refute"?

And yes I am on a high horse now, because this is beyond ridiculous now.

I have a question - does it say anything in the Constitution about police forces to protect us?  If not, will this get tossed?  How about fire departments - what does the Constitution say about that?   Gone then?  How about the Post Office? Is that in there, or should we disband the USPS too?  Where does your logic end and just pure illogical savagery take over?  It looks like a pretty fine line to me.

Another question for you -- so if none of us were to have a public school to send our kids too, then I guess that means that all women must now stay home to home-school all our children.  So what happens to all the progress women have made  - screw that too I guess?  Should we all be breaking our the corsets and petticoats too?

You hear that girls.... if Eilish gets her way then we are all going to be Laura from "Little House on the Freakin' Prairie".

I am just at a loss......

 

 

 

 

 

 

mamaof2angles
by on Aug. 26, 2009 at 4:55 AM

So because of a "few" cases you ASSume its all over???? LOL you need a reality check.  Not all states are like that, here in my town if you dont do well in either public hs or the private CATHOLIC hs you can attend PAL Program for Alturnive Learning.  See here we think education is NEEDED in order to accomplish anything.  Hmm maybe why even though my state rates the 8th "poorest" we have some of the BEST schools in the country.

Quoting stormcris:

I know of a few states that the courts of that state ruled it was a priviledge and students were not entitled to an alternative once expelled.

In a 4-1 decision that some educators praised, the state's highest court also ruled a student does not have an absolute right to an education and, under existing Massachusetts laws, school officials have no obligation to provide alternative education to expelled students.

According to South Dakota Circuit Judge Lori Wilbur, students in the 161 districts of the state are not guaranteed an education. Judge Wilbur found the testimony of superintendents unreliable, and declared that the state is not obligated to prepare students for college or for meaningful employment.

 

Quoting adulation:

then maybe something should be done about that.  Here they have teachers that go into the correctional system to help people finish their education,  and if they can't return to school, then to study for their GED.

The way to assure prisoners will never become productive members of society is to completely deny them the very basic education.

Quoting stormcris:

Not in this school system or many I have seen. They have the right to declare a person a threat to the function of the school and kick them out. It has been done as long as I can remember. The threat to function is completely objective.

Quoting adulation:


Quoting stormcris:

Education is a privilege and not a right. I say this due to the fact that a school system has the right to deny to teach anyone as long as the reasons are not protected under equal opportunity. A right is something that cannot legally be taken away from you.

when is a minor denied an education?  i've never heard of such a case.  even if they commit crimes [in my state at least] they are still allowed an education while serving time.
children who are disabled are provided with special classrooms and teachers,  and children who the public school systems can't provide adequate care for [in my state at least] are given state funds to help pay for a facility that can.






stormcris
by Christy on Aug. 26, 2009 at 5:16 AM

Private schools are a paid education which means it is not a right. Many PAL programs are tuition based which does not include education as a right. Rights do not have a cost attached, if you are required to pay for it, it is not a right. This includes far more states than the couple I listed. Which state are you in?Most states have declined to rule that it is a right or have ruled that it is not a right. Montana is one such state that has declined to rule that education is a right.

the Montana Supreme Court found the state’s system of school finance unconstitutional on other grounds and therefore expressly declined to rule on the issue of whether education is a fundamental right. Helena Elem. Sch. Dist. No. 1 v. State, 236 Mont. 44, 55, 769 P.2d 684, 691 (1989).

Quoting mamaof2angles:

So because of a "few" cases you ASSume its all over???? LOL you need a reality check.  Not all states are like that, here in my town if you dont do well in either public hs or the private CATHOLIC hs you can attend PAL Program for Alturnive Learning.  See here we think education is NEEDED in order to accomplish anything.  Hmm maybe why even though my state rates the 8th "poorest" we have some of the BEST schools in the country.

Quoting stormcris:

I know of a few states that the courts of that state ruled it was a priviledge and students were not entitled to an alternative once expelled.

In a 4-1 decision that some educators praised, the state's highest court also ruled a student does not have an absolute right to an education and, under existing Massachusetts laws, school officials have no obligation to provide alternative education to expelled students.

According to South Dakota Circuit Judge Lori Wilbur, students in the 161 districts of the state are not guaranteed an education. Judge Wilbur found the testimony of superintendents unreliable, and declared that the state is not obligated to prepare students for college or for meaningful employment.


Quoting adulation:

then maybe something should be done about that.  Here they have teachers that go into the correctional system to help people finish their education,  and if they can't return to school, then to study for their GED.

The way to assure prisoners will never become productive members of society is to completely deny them the very basic education.

Quoting stormcris:

Not in this school system or many I have seen. They have the right to declare a person a threat to the function of the school and kick them out. It has been done as long as I can remember. The threat to function is completely objective.

Quoting adulation:


Quoting stormcris:

Education is a privilege and not a right. I say this due to the fact that a school system has the right to deny to teach anyone as long as the reasons are not protected under equal opportunity. A right is something that cannot legally be taken away from you.

when is a minor denied an education?  i've never heard of such a case.  even if they commit crimes [in my state at least] they are still allowed an education while serving time.
children who are disabled are provided with special classrooms and teachers,  and children who the public school systems can't provide adequate care for [in my state at least] are given state funds to help pay for a facility that can.







mamaof2angles
by on Aug. 26, 2009 at 5:55 AM

Lovely how you took that ruling out of proportion had NOTHING to do with PAL or any of the Class AA, Class A, Class B, Class C or any of the other schools that was STUPID people (the same ones that put bison body parts on desks when people talk about "hazeing" the bison back into the park) PAL is NOT tuition based its funded just like the rest of montanas PUBLIC schools, and that ruling was back in '89 thats laughable, there have been numbers of other rulings for items, this one happen to be about FUNDING not just if it was a right or not Love how you "forgot" that part. IF your child is NOT enrolled either in homeschool, Montessori, or public school, YOU the parent are arrested for truancy of a minor.  Every child in Montana has access to an education weather you have rich parents or not.  I myself attended and graduated from a Class AA high school that works VERY hard to teach its students.  the motto for the STATE AA CHAMPS for football whom are going for a 4-peat this year, is Attitude, ACDEMICS, Athletics  IN THAT ORDER.  But I am preaching to some one whom THINKS they "know" EVERYTHING when they dont know the whole story.  When we were in government class we were taught that EVERYONE has a RIGHT to acquire an education.

Quoting stormcris:

Private schools are a paid education which means it is not a right. Many PAL programs are tuition based which does not include education as a right. Rights do not have a cost attached, if you are required to pay for it, it is not a right. This includes far more states than the couple I listed. Which state are you in?Most states have declined to rule that it is a right or have ruled that it is not a right. Montana is one such state that has declined to rule that education is a right.

the Montana Supreme Court found the state’s system of school finance unconstitutional on other grounds and therefore expressly declined to rule on the issue of whether education is a fundamental right. Helena Elem. Sch. Dist. No. 1 v. State, 236 Mont. 44, 55, 769 P.2d 684, 691 (1989).

Quoting mamaof2angles:

So because of a "few" cases you ASSume its all over???? LOL you need a reality check.  Not all states are like that, here in my town if you dont do well in either public hs or the private CATHOLIC hs you can attend PAL Program for Alturnive Learning.  See here we think education is NEEDED in order to accomplish anything.  Hmm maybe why even though my state rates the 8th "poorest" we have some of the BEST schools in the country.

Quoting stormcris:

I know of a few states that the courts of that state ruled it was a priviledge and students were not entitled to an alternative once expelled.

In a 4-1 decision that some educators praised, the state's highest court also ruled a student does not have an absolute right to an education and, under existing Massachusetts laws, school officials have no obligation to provide alternative education to expelled students.

According to South Dakota Circuit Judge Lori Wilbur, students in the 161 districts of the state are not guaranteed an education. Judge Wilbur found the testimony of superintendents unreliable, and declared that the state is not obligated to prepare students for college or for meaningful employment.


Quoting adulation:

then maybe something should be done about that.  Here they have teachers that go into the correctional system to help people finish their education,  and if they can't return to school, then to study for their GED.

The way to assure prisoners will never become productive members of society is to completely deny them the very basic education.

Quoting stormcris:

Not in this school system or many I have seen. They have the right to declare a person a threat to the function of the school and kick them out. It has been done as long as I can remember. The threat to function is completely objective.

Quoting adulation:


Quoting stormcris:

Education is a privilege and not a right. I say this due to the fact that a school system has the right to deny to teach anyone as long as the reasons are not protected under equal opportunity. A right is something that cannot legally be taken away from you.

when is a minor denied an education?  i've never heard of such a case.  even if they commit crimes [in my state at least] they are still allowed an education while serving time.
children who are disabled are provided with special classrooms and teachers,  and children who the public school systems can't provide adequate care for [in my state at least] are given state funds to help pay for a facility that can.







 

stormcris
by Christy on Aug. 26, 2009 at 6:16 AM

Ok prove to me where they ruled differently. The question arose in this case as to where education was a fundamental right and that was the finding as it applied to that question. Show me where it says you have the "right" to an eduction. Not where you are provided with one but where you have the right.

Quoting mamaof2angles:

Lovely how you took that ruleing out of proption had NOTHING to do with PAL or any of the Class AA, Class A, Class B, Class C or any of the other schools that was STUPID people (the same ones that put bison body parts on desks when people talk about "hazeing" the bison back into the park) PAL is NOT tution based its funded just like the rest of montanas PUBLIC schools, and that ruleing was back in '89 thats laughable, there have been numbers of other ruleings for items, this one happen to be about FUNDING not just if it was a right or not Love how you "forgot" that part. IF your child is NOT enrolled either in homeschool, montsorii, or public school, YOU the parent are arressted for truncey of a minor.  Every child in Montana has access to an education weather you have rich parents or not.  I myself attended and gradutaed from a Class AA high school that works VERY hard to teach its students.  the motto for the STATE AA CHAMPS for football whom are going for a 4-peat this year, is Additude, ACIDEMICS, Athletics  IN THAT ORDER.  But I am preaching to some one whom THINKS they "know" EVERYTHING when they dont know the whole story.  When we were in goverment class we were taught that EVERYONE has a RIGHT to acquire an education.


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