Thoughts of Circumcision...

[kcangel63]

Why our family decided to circumcise

This was an issue of concern for my husband and I during our 4th
pregnancy. We didn't know what we were having (boy/girl) because I
didn't go through any testing or ultrasounds. I felt it was VERY
important to know what we should do if we had our 1st boy (which we did).
My husband and I spent many months fasting, praying and studying the
scriptures. We knew of the scripture talking about the Law of
Circumcision done away with. These are a couple things that we
found out is this subject...

People often confuse the Law of Circumcision with that of the token
of the Abrahamic covenant, which is everlasting. The token of the
covenant existed long before the law of circumcision. These are two
separate things. Anyone who has been to the temple understands that
tokens are necessary to the covenant, otherwise, why would we have
them? If you do away with the tokens then you do away with the
covenant. Under the law of Moses, the Jewish people began to teach
that children who were uncircumcised were unholy, which we know is
untrue. (D&C 74:4) This is what Christ did away with. Verse 5
states that the commandment not to circumcise was of Paul and not the
Lord.

In fact, Joseph Smith used circumcision as an example
of how the gospel is always the same.

"Now taking it for granted that the scriptures say what they mean,
and mean what they say, we have sufficient grounds to go on and
prove from the Bible that the gospel has always been the same; the
ordinances to fulfill its requirements, the same, and the officers
to officiate, the same; and the signs and fruits resulting from the
promises, the same; therefore, as Noah was a preacher of
righteousness he must have been baptized and ordained to the
priesthood by the laying on of the hands, etc. For no man taketh
the honor unto himself except he be called of God as was Aaron, an
Aaron was baptized in the cloud and in the sea, together with all
Israel, as is related by the Apostle in Corinthians. This position
or fact, is witnessed in this manner: the Covenant of circumcision
made with Abraham, and practiced steadily up to the departing of
Israel out of Egypt, was abandoned in the wilderness, forty years--
and renewed by Joshua after he passed over Jordon, and encamped at
Gilgal, where he made sharp knives and circumcised the whole male
portion of the church." (Joseph Smith, TPJS p. 264)

Another of [John] Lyon's tasks [as superintendent of the Endowment
House] was to arrange for a doctor to be present at the Endowment
House, where parents brought their children to be circumcised when
eight days old. Early Church leaders felt that they were truly
reestablishing Israel and so had to restore all known ordinances;
the substitute temple was a logical place to perform the covenant
ceremony of circumcision (T. Edgar Lyon, Interview, 1975). Lyon
worked under the direction of Heber C. Kimball, the chief
administrator of the House. T. Edgar Lyon, Jr., John Lyon, Life of a
Pioneer Poet (Provo, UT: Religious Studies Center, Brigham Young
University, 1989), p. 229.

We had our son circumcised because the Lord gave us a revelation to
do so, after many months of fasting and prayer. I was sitting in
Sacrament meeting when I knew what we needed to do. We had him
circumcised on the 8th day after his birth by a Rabbi, just as our
Savior's circumcision was performed. It was a wonderful experience
to have the Rabbi come to our house and perform it there instead of
a Dr's office or hospital. It was very fast (less than 1 minute)
and there was no blood. He cried for only a few seconds and then he
ate and went to sleep. We know that he will have a private and
visual reminder of the covenant of Abraham. That he is the seed of
Abraham and to do the works of Abraham.

There were some scriptures references that helped us. The main
thing was that both of us received revelation from the Spirit that
it was what we were supposed to do in our family. We didn't talk
about it much to each other during our praying. I didn't want
either of us to convince the other about circumcision either way.
When the answer came, we both knew it was what we would do in our
family. I have several friends who circumcise their boys. I also
have several who don't. I don't criticize them for it either way.
I believe everyone should pray upon it and do what they know they
were guided to do. In our case, we know it was what we were
supposed to do.

I thank those of you who have an open mind about personal revelation
and don't judge and/or criticize others for following it.  This is my belief  and I would never do anything to my family or children that wasn't prompted by my Heavenly Father.

[moon_mom]

What about Moroni 8:8?

[kcangel63]

"Listen to the words of Christ, your Redeemer, your Lord and your God. Behold, I came into the world not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance; the whole need no physician, but they that are sick; wherefore, little children are whole, for they are not capable of committing sin; wherefore the curse of Adam is taken from them in me, that it hath no power over them; and the law of circumcision is done away in me."  (Moroni 8:8)

The law is done away with.  The Mosaic law.  The Abrahamic Covenant is not done away with, it is everlasting.  Circumcision is a token of the Abrahamic Covenant.  Joseph Smith used circumcision as an example of how the gospel never changes.

[Curllyq]

So, did you follow the Torah and perform a circumcision as orriginally directed (only cutting off the very tip without breaking adhesions or removing glans), or did you take the whole forskin?  I thought with his death, Jesus fulfilled the old covenant (Old Testiment) and so began a new one (New Testiment).

Paul taught that Jesus accepts people as they are and does not ask them to become circumcised or uncircumcised to become Christian (Galatians 5:6):  "For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love."

[kcangel63]

Quoting Curllyq:

So, did you follow the Torah and perform a circumcision as orriginally directed (only cutting off the very tip without breaking adhesions or removing glans), or did you take the whole forskin?  I thought with his death, Jesus fulfilled the old covenant (Old Testiment) and so began a new one (New Testiment).

Paul taught that Jesus accepts people as they are and does not ask them to become circumcised or uncircumcised to become Christian (Galatians 5:6):  "For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love."

I've been searching, but can't seem to find anywhere in the OT where it says to only cut off the tip of the forskin without breaking adhesions or removing glands.  Can you show me where it says that?  I am interested to find out. 

We did have both our sons circumcised on the 8th day by a Rabbi.  They did break the adhesion. 

As for Jesus...  the Law of Moses was fulfilled by Jesus, but the Abrahamic Covenant is everlasting.  Circumcision is a token in the Abrahamic Covenant.  It is never done away with, because it is an everlasting (meaning lasting forever - and not to be ended, ever).

"And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.  This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.  And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.  And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or brought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.  He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.  And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant."  (Gen 17: 9-14)

[sallymoon]

Why would Jesus specifically state that the law of circumcision was nullified if it were still required with the Abrahamic Covenant?  That would make this passage completely pointless.  The Abrahamic Covenant does not apply to everyone anyhow - it was for Abraham and his descendants.

Quoting kcangel63:

"Listen to the words of Christ, your Redeemer, your Lord and your God. Behold, I came into the world not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance; the whole need no physician, but they that are sick; wherefore, little children are whole, for they are not capable of committing sin; wherefore the curse of Adam is taken from them in me, that it hath no power over them; and the law of circumcision is done away in me."  (Moroni 8:8)

The law is done away with.  The Mosaic law.  The Abrahamic Covenant is not done away with, it is everlasting.  Circumcision is a token of the Abrahamic Covenant.  Joseph Smith used circumcision as an example of how the gospel never changes.

[kcangel63]

We are Abraham's descendants.  Jesus didn't say that circumcision was 'nullified'.  He said the Law is done away with.  The Law was a corruption of man.  Circumcision is one of the Tokens of an EVERLASTING Covenant of God.  It is Everlasting, meaning lasting forever. 

Quoting sallymoon:

Why would Jesus specifically state that the law of circumcision was nullified if it were still required with the Abrahamic Covenant?  That would make this passage completely pointless.  The Abrahamic Covenant does not apply to everyone anyhow - it was for Abraham and his descendants.

Quoting kcangel63:

"Listen to the words of Christ, your Redeemer, your Lord and your God. Behold, I came into the world not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance; the whole need no physician, but they that are sick; wherefore, little children are whole, for they are not capable of committing sin; wherefore the curse of Adam is taken from them in me, that it hath no power over them; and the law of circumcision is done away in me."  (Moroni 8:8)

The law is done away with.  The Mosaic law.  The Abrahamic Covenant is not done away with, it is everlasting.  Circumcision is a token of the Abrahamic Covenant.  Joseph Smith used circumcision as an example of how the gospel never changes.

[sallymoon]

Kudos to you if you've been able to trace your lineage back far enough to know you descended from Abraham.  I highly doubt my own lineage can be linked to Abraham, so I'm pretty sure I'm off the hook.  Still sounds like a huge contradiction and completely illogical.  Of course I've never really understood why anyone uses religion to justify cutting off a healthy, functional, and beneficial body part, especially from someone who cannot voice their opinion in the matter.

Quoting kcangel63:

We are Abraham's descendants.  Jesus didn't say that circumcision was 'nullified'.  He said the Law is done away with.  The Law was a corruption of man.  Circumcision is one of the Tokens of an EVERLASTING Covenant of God.  It is Everlasting, meaning lasting forever. 

Quoting sallymoon:

Why would Jesus specifically state that the law of circumcision was nullified if it were still required with the Abrahamic Covenant?  That would make this passage completely pointless.  The Abrahamic Covenant does not apply to everyone anyhow - it was for Abraham and his descendants.

Quoting kcangel63:

"Listen to the words of Christ, your Redeemer, your Lord and your God. Behold, I came into the world not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance; the whole need no physician, but they that are sick; wherefore, little children are whole, for they are not capable of committing sin; wherefore the curse of Adam is taken from them in me, that it hath no power over them; and the law of circumcision is done away in me."  (Moroni 8:8)

The law is done away with.  The Mosaic law.  The Abrahamic Covenant is not done away with, it is everlasting.  Circumcision is a token of the Abrahamic Covenant.  Joseph Smith used circumcision as an example of how the gospel never changes.

[Marley78]

1 Corinthians 7 clear says that if you are not circumcised you should not seek  circumcision. Every baby boy is born uncircumcised.